Shifting Gears Question

[MichiganBob]

I'm just wondering why my 2018 shifts so much smoother from 4th to 6th compared to 1st through 3rd. Is it the low end torque that creates more stress which taxes the shifting mechanisms? If not, what? This is the case with or without using the clutch but especially without using the clutch.

 

Thanks,

[dirtrider]

11 minutes ago, MichiganBob said:

I'm just wondering why my 2018 shifts so much smoother from 4th to 6th compared to 1st through 3rd. Is it the low end torque that creates more stress which taxes the shifting mechanisms? If not, what? This is the case with or without using the clutch but especially without using the clutch.

 

Thanks,

Evening Bob

 

That would be difficult to diagnose without having the motorcycle to work with & even then it might not be an easy diagnosis.

 

If I had to guess from afar it would possibly  be something with the 1st/2nd sliding shift collar. That is probably the common dominator in your problem shifting gears. 

 

Are you making all your shifts at about the same RPM? 

[MichiganBob]

Pretty much same RPM. It's not a big concern. Rides great. It's my sixth  boxer and i swear they were all rough shifting in the lower gears. Thus over the decades riding these twins, i developed an inner sense of how to shift them. Just figured it was an idiosyncratic feature of the boxer twins.

[dirtrider]

4 minutes ago, MichiganBob said:

Pretty much same RPM. It's not a big concern. Rides great. It's my sixth  boxer and i swear they were all rough shifting in the lower gears. Thus over the decades riding these twins, i developed an inner sense of how to shift them. Just figured it was an idiosyncratic feature of the boxer twins.

Evening Bob

 

First thing to try is to adjust the clutch lever all the way out (max lever travel) just to see if that helps the shifting.  

[MichiganBob]

Evening DR,

 

Thanks.  I'll give it a try.

 

 

[longjohn]

21 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

I'm just wondering why my 2018 shifts so much smoother from 4th to 6th compared to 1st through 3rd. Is it the low end torque that creates more stress which taxes the shifting mechanisms? If not, what? This is the case with or without using the clutch but especially without using the clutch.

 

Thanks,

The harder you lay on the throttle and the higher the rpm you reach before you shift the smoother you will find the shifting in the low gears.  For what it's worth I've heard the newer models have much smoother shifting thru all the gears. Also I think it smoothes out with more mileage.

 

edit.  Using shift assist. The chain drive bikes I’ve ridden that have s/a all were smooth shifting thru all gears. 

[TSConver]

Are you using shift assist or the clutch?

[MichiganBob]

Using clutch on low gears. It's smoother that way.

I always found my boxer twins going back to 1971 to not shift smoothly in lower gears compared to my other bike brands. Wondered if it was the synchro mechanism.

[duckbubbles]

I use the clutch when shifting 1-2 and 2-3 most all the time.  3-4. 4-5 and 5-6 work great with the GSAP.  The lower gears are not so smooth using GSAP unless you have a fistful of throttle and rpm.  I hear that the 4 cylinder bikes are better.

 

Frank

[TSConver]

I hardly ever use the clutch for shifting after the bike is moving.  2016 GSA with shift assist.  Mine shifts really well.  If I am real light on the throttle then 1 to 2 can be a little jerky but even moderate throttle, say at least 25% and all of the shifts are pretty smooth.  If I do use the clutch it is really smooth from 1st to 2nd.

 

Have you tried using shift assist and no clutch?

 

What oil are you running in the engine, could be an oil issue since it is a wet clutch.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, MichiganBob said:

Using clutch on low gears. It's smoother that way.

I always found my boxer twins going back to 1971 to not shift smoothly in lower gears compared to my other bike brands. Wondered if it was the synchro mechanism.

Morning Bob

 

The BMW boxer bikes use a sliding collar (dog engagement) type shifting so none of them have, or require,  synchronizers. 

[The Fabricator]

There is an engine speed change shifting from one gear to the next.

The lower the gear, the greater the engine speed differential.

This translates to greater individual gear rotating speed differentials in the lower gears than the higher gears.

Shifting smoothness is best when the speed differential is small.

[Darbarian]

The Fabricator made the point that I would have made, but he did it much better. Higher gears are much closer together than lower gears, so you are going to notice that if nothing else is going on, as in everything is working as it is supposed to. 

[MichiganBob]

Thanks the Fabricator and Darbarian.  What you say makes a lot of sense. However .... True of False that the Beemer Twins over the years has had a clunkier transmission than other BMW motors and definitely more clunky than other brands I've had? Is the differentials in the Beemer twin tranny so different than other models and brands that low gears take considerably more finesse and timing to shift smoothly?

[Skywagon]

BMW boxer gears are clunky and grind in the low gears.  Always have and probably always will.  They have improved over the years and I think the newer ones are a lot better, but that is how you know you are on a BMW Boxer.  Character, not a flaw  Ive been riding them long enough I've kind of got it down except 2 to 1.  The best way for me not to grind 2-1 is roll to a near stop and then shift down.  I can manager all the other gears both ways.

 

Other brands shift better....but nobody ever came up to me on an FJR and said wow what is that.  It happens nearly every time I stop on my RT for gas..

[MichiganBob]

Thanks for the reality check Skywagon. No question that my 81 shifted better than my 71, and my 02 better and 2012 better again and the 2018 so much better. And I'm not complaining, embrace the character of it all, been on the boxers since 71 so of course I love them ... but technically, why does it clunk? According to The Fabricator and Darbarian, it just has closer differentials in the lower gears than other motors/brands. If that's the case, so be it.

[Lowndes]

1 hour ago, MichiganBob said:

Thanks the Fabricator and Darbarian.  What you say makes a lot of sense. However .... True of False that the Beemer Twins over the years has had a clunkier transmission than other BMW motors and definitely more clunky than other brands I've had? Is the differentials in the Beemer twin tranny so different than other models and brands that low gears take considerably more finesse and timing to shift smoothly?

 

I used to be under the impression that all BMW bikes shifted with big CLUNKS.  None of mine do.  Smooth as melted margerine, like a Lexus in luxury mode.  Took a while to figure it out but its very simple but does take some coordination: at the same time, give the clutch a quick *1/3 pull, a quick blip of the throttle (reduce power), and quickly + firmly hit the shifter.  *Sometimes upshifting I just "take the play out" of the clutch lever doing this and it's even smoother  (it helps to keep my coordination/timing in sync).  I wouldn't call it finesse cause everyone will tell you I aint got none of that stuff.

[duckbubbles]

45+ years riding and the hardest thing for me when I first got my R12RS was learning not to "HELP" the GSAP when shifting.  Works best when accelerating and not steady speed, don't let off the throttle slightly when you shift.

 

Frank

[MichiganBob]

Interesting technique duckbubbles. It's counter intuitive so worth a try. Thanks.

[Exportman]

Had the same problem when I got the bike  but as duckbubbles says  going up the box don't ease off the throttle, going down keep the throttle closed.   After decades of riding bikes without  shift assist it took me a while to get out of the habit of easing the gas off a fraction on the upshift.

[Geekmaster]

I can confirm duckbubbles' and Exportman's advice.  I almost always use the quick shifter up, except for 1 -> 2, and when going down except 3 -> 2 and 2 -> 1.  It took a little while to get smooth shifts from 2 -> 3, but the key is to accelerate hard and don't let off.  I shift no earlier than 4k RPM (higher is good) when going from 2 to 3.

 

If I'm just casually riding, especially in traffic, and accelerating gradually and shifting at lower rpms, then I use the clutch.