Hard Choice: 1999 BMW F-650 or 1996 R1100RT

[BillTruz]

Hi BMW Sports Touring friends,

 

I'm currently looking at these two very good options and wouldn't mind some discussion/advice.

 

1. 1999 F-650, Has under 3,000 miles, asking $2,750: new tires will be included in price (deducted), red, perfect looking but I haven't ridden it yet (will have a new battery installed soon). No leaks. Comes with a BMW riding jacket and matching helmet. Strangely, the rear knobby tire (which I would replace with more street-wise tires) is worn just beyond legal. Is that possible with under 3K miles? Will need panniers (an extra $500 or more)--a must for me.
2. 1996 R-1100RT, has 24,000 miles, asking $2,500: perfect paint (a few very minor chips on fender), good tires, runs well (getting used to the clunky transmission), sounds smooth at rev, no hesitation or flat spots. Front brakes are good, rear is a bit soft and feels like it's weak. Has full BMW panniers. Con: The gas tank sensor wire lost its covering and must be replaced.  LIsting says: "Brand new fuel pump and filter Brand new spark plugs Brand new alternator belt Fresh tires Fresh fluids Aftermarket goodies throughout like Aircraft plastics windscreen, cruise control bar ends, PIAA fog lights."

 

I'm really attracted to both bikes.

 

• The RT has everything I want: Great wind and cold protection. Full panniers. Cons: It's heavy for me. (I don't mean physically. I'm 5'10" and over 200 lbs. but I'm not used to it.) Will I actually pull it out of the garage and use it? Will I get easy and comfortable with the weight?
• The F-650 feels like a dream. Comfortable size and easy weight. I like the upright position compared to the Enduro F-650 GS I rode yesterday. Be great to have the jacket and helmet, which I would have to buy otherwise. This bike I would jump on in a minute without hesitation. It won't sit in my garage. Will I miss the large fairing and windscreen? The electrical outlet for my GPS? The heated grips? The cruise?

 

 I guess my question comes down to getting to the point where I'm feeling easy on the bigger bike--which I think is what I really want. I'm fine at higher speeds--it doesn't feel heavy. I'm shaky at low speeds especially u-turns and the like. Will I love it after I've put some miles on it? Or should I stick with a smaller bike that I'm totally comfortable with from the get-go?

 

I would really appreciate any thoughts from my more experienced big-brother riders?

 

Best regards,

Bill

 

[Hosstage]

How are you planning on using the bike? Trips? Town riding? Commute? Interstate bombing? Dirt road exploring?

You will get used to the weight of the RT and appreciate the protection in less than ideal weather, but that 650 doesn't look too bad either for protection, not fully naked.

Yes, the knobby tire being worn out at 3000 miles (and 22 years) is normal.

Tires should be replaced at 6-8 years old, regardless of tread life left in them, so figure that cost in if it applies.

There is no perfect bike, making a decision is always a balancing act. Good luck however you decide.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, BillTruz said:

Hi BMW Sports Touring friends,

 

I'm currently looking at these two very good options and wouldn't mind some discussion/advice.

 

1. 1999 F-650, Has under 3,000 miles, asking $2,750: new tires will be included in price (deducted), red, perfect looking but I haven't ridden it yet (will have a new battery installed soon). No leaks. Comes with a BMW riding jacket and matching helmet. Strangely, the rear knobby tire (which I would replace with more street-wise tires) is worn just beyond legal. Is that possible with under 3K miles? Will need panniers (an extra $500 or more)--a must for me.
2. 1996 R-1100RT, has 24,000 miles, asking $2,500: perfect paint (a few very minor chips on fender), good tires, runs well (getting used to the clunky transmission), sounds smooth at rev, no hesitation or flat spots. Front brakes are good, rear is a bit soft and feels like it's weak. Has full BMW panniers. Con: The gas tank sensor wire lost its covering and must be replaced.  LIsting says: "Brand new fuel pump and filter Brand new spark plugs Brand new alternator belt Fresh tires Fresh fluids Aftermarket goodies throughout like Aircraft plastics windscreen, cruise control bar ends, PIAA fog lights."

 

I'm really attracted to both bikes.

 

• The RT has everything I want: Great wind and cold protection. Full panniers. Cons: It's heavy for me. (I don't mean physically. I'm 5'10" and over 200 lbs. but I'm not used to it.) Will I actually pull it out of the garage and use it? Will I get easy and comfortable with the weight?
• The F-650 feels like a dream. Comfortable size and easy weight. I like the upright position compared to the Enduro F-650 GS I rode yesterday. Be great to have the jacket and helmet, which I would have to buy otherwise. This bike I would jump on in a minute without hesitation. It won't sit in my garage. Will I miss the large fairing and windscreen? The electrical outlet for my GPS? The heated grips? The cruise?

 

 I guess my question comes down to getting to the point where I'm feeling easy on the bigger bike--which I think is what I really want. I'm fine at higher speeds--it doesn't feel heavy. I'm shaky at low speeds especially u-turns and the like. Will I love it after I've put some miles on it? Or should I stick with a smaller bike that I'm totally comfortable with from the get-go?

 

I would really appreciate any thoughts from my more experienced big-brother riders?

 

Best regards,

Bill

 

 

Morning Bill 

 

Both are decent choices but fill slightly different roles. 

 

The BMW F650 Funduro was a decent motorcycle, there were some steering head bearing issues so look for notchy feeling steering or loose steering head bearings.  They also had some water pump issues with the chance of engine coolant getting into the engine oil (so also check for milky looking engine oil). The charging system was also another area of concern especially if using heated gear or added lighting. 

Also, something to look for but difficult to actually look at is the front chain sprocket splines, if the front chain sprocket was ever run loose, or came loose then a good chance the transmission output shaft splines are worn or close to stripping. (unless you have someone take it apart & look at this pretty difficult to find before buying.

 

There were also some (a number of) rear wheel bearing problems on the BMW 650 bikes. Ask the owner if that was ever  a problem & if so was it properly taken care of?   

 

The other thing (at least it has always bothered me personally) is the frontal air flow at higher speeds on the BMW F650 Funduro, they  typically have a lot of wind & helmet buffeting at higher speeds. (ride that motorcycle at higher speeds to see if you get a lot of wind buffeting). 

 

The upside of the BMW F650 Funduro is those things have been ridden around the world & back numerous times so if you get a good one it will make you a nice motorcycle.  

 

On the BMW 1100RT, those are a crap shoot. If you get a good one then it is a great motorcycle. If you get a bad one then those things can be a BIG money pit with a capital (PIT).  

 

When it comes to older BMW boxer bikes, those things are just complex enough that unless you are a savvy previous 1100RT owner or take a BMW boxer savvy friend with you to look at & ride that motorcycle it is very difficult to find problems if they have been covered up by the previous owner. 

When I personally look at a used BMW boxer bike I look at, question the seller himself, I look at the sellers other vehicles, look as his home appearance, etc  as I am judging the seller as much or even more than the motorcycle. 

 

If you get a GOOD well cared for BMW 1100RT you will be happy as they can be a good motorcycle, if you get a bad one you can spend a LOT of money on repairs. 

 

The red flag that stands out for me is: with all the work on that 1100RT fuel system & other work then WHY is the guy selling it? What did he find that prompted him to sell it?  Might mean nothing but also might mean other problems were found. Personally, I almost never buy a used motorcycle that has had a lot of work done JUST prior to selling unless I am buying it with the known (disclosed)  problems & issues. 

 

The 1996 BMW 1100RT's had a number of transmission problems from jumping out of gear while riding, to final drive crown bearing failures (some repeatably), to surging issues (this is easily fixable though).

 

If it hasn't been done already then you will probably need to replace all the rubber brake hoses as those are probably degraded & soft (could even be the soft rear brake feel).   THIS will need to be done unless it has already been done. 

 

The HES (Hall Effect Sensor) is also a known (almost sure to fail eventually) unless it has been replaced or re-wired with proper high temp wiring. If that 1100RT still  has the  original  HES then if you ride it in the rain (or thoroughly wash it ) then it could easily quit running at about any time, most will not re-start & require a tow home or to a repair shop.  Not a big dal to replace but not something that you can easily do along the side of a road. If you buy that 1100RT & the HES is still original then you need to plan replacing (or have yours re-wired)  before you can trust that motorcycle to be reliable if caught in a heavy rain storm or wash the motorcycle.  (personally, I wouldn't let this be a reason to not buy the motorcycle  just something that you probably need to budget into your purchase price)

 

 

 

 

[BillTruz]

And here's another one to make my confusion complete...

• 1992 K75, 86,000 miles, $3000.00: Full panniers, which I need. 750!! Better size than the 650. More cosmetic issues but not a wreck.
• Too high mileage?

Any more thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Bill

[dirtrider]

50 minutes ago, BillTruz said:

And here's another one to make my confusion complete...

• 1992 K75, 86,000 miles, $3000.00: Full panniers, which I need. 750!! Better size than the 650. More cosmetic issues but not a wreck.
• Too high mileage?

Any more thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

Afternoon Bill

 

Those old K-75's can make a good motorcycle but you will probably have to do all the work on it yourself as most shops no longer work on those old K bikes.   

 

See my signature line below my posts__ 

 

Used BMW's are like used underwear; previous owner makes all the difference in value!

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Bill

 

We don't know where you live or even what county you live in but one the best ways that I know of to buy a decent used BMW is to join a local BMW riders group, or join a local BMW riders club. 

 

You quickly get to know the riders personally, so get to know about their motorcycles so when one comes up for sale you personally know the seller & know most of the history on that motorcycle.   

 

For most BMW clubs you don't even need to own a BMW, or for most don't even need to own a motorcycle. You just have to be interested in motorcycles, riding,  & be friendly. 

[BillTruz]

D. R., Thanks.

That's a great idea! My wife, earlier this morning, said essentially the same thing. "Find other folks like the one's on the BMW Sport Touring forum." I'd like to find someone in my area that wouldn't mind looking at the bikes with me. I live in NY State about 2 hours north of the Big Apple. I suppose an internet search will get me to local BMW riders.

Thanks again,

Bill

[BillTruz]

7 hours ago, Hosstage said:

How are you planning on using the bike? Trips? Town riding? Commute? Interstate bombing? Dirt road exploring?

You will get used to the weight of the RT and appreciate the protection in less than ideal weather, but that 650 doesn't look too bad either for protection, not fully naked.

Yes, the knobby tire being worn out at 3000 miles (and 22 years) is normal.

Tires should be replaced at 6-8 years old, regardless of tread life left in them, so figure that cost in if it applies.

There is no perfect bike, making a decision is always a balancing act. Good luck however you decide.

Hosstage, thanks for asking.

Everyday riding use; like having a second car. Grocery shopping, etc. Some trips, vacations. Pleasure riding.  I won't ride it off the road but dirt roads if they're reasonably maintained. I live in rural New York state where all the country roads are 55 miles per hour. Rarely ever go to Albany (the biggest city in my area). Towns up and down the Hudson and east to Gt. Barrington and the Berkshires (Western Massachusetts).

Bill

[Hosstage]

Sounds like you need two bikes! One for hopping around, one for eating up miles. You wouldn't be the first.

[BillTruz]

Hello All,

 

Now I'm leaning towards the 1999 F-650.

 

I need bags and this bike is already near my limit of 3000 dollars, at 2750.00. But I found these BMW bags, if I want them, for a bargain 200 dollars. (I'll need to clean them up.) From my research they would probably be 600 to 800 new. The aftermarket ones go for at least 500. They are on a smashed up  K75 RT. (Below)

 

 

How do I know if they will go on the F-650 or not? Or is it possible to know that before buying them?

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated?

 

Thanks,

Bill

[dirtrider]

2 minutes ago, BillTruz said:

Hello All,

 

Now I'm leaning towards the 1999 F-650.

 

I need bags and this bike is already near my limit of 3000 dollars, at 2750.00. But I found these BMW bags, if I want them, for a bargain 200 dollars. (I'll need to clean them up.) From my research they would probably be 600 to 800 new. The aftermarket ones go for at least 500. They are on a smashed up  K75 RT. (Below)

 

 

 

How do I know if they will go on the F-650 or not? Or is it possible to know that before buying them?

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated?

 

Thanks,

Bill

Evening Bill 

 

Probably won't fit without making custom (homemade case mounts), not an easy task unless you are familiar with this type of fabrication.  

[Hosstage]

Delete, a tire question answered in the original post.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Hosstage

[BillTruz]

11 hours ago, dirtrider said:

The red flag that stands out for me is: with all the work on that 1100RT fuel system & other work then WHY is the guy selling it? What did he find that prompted him to sell it?  Might mean nothing but also might mean other problems were found. Personally, I almost never buy a used motorcycle that has had a lot of work done JUST prior to selling unless I am buying it with the known (disclosed)  problems & issues. 

 

The owner of the 1100RT fixes bikes as a hobby, has a mechanics license for repairing automobiles. He's in the military but buys, fixes and sells bikes, for fun and money. He rides this one to Maine and back--about a thousand miles. So maybe that's an indication that its doesn't have any serious problems. Like some people I've known buy houses, fix them up and sell them--over and over.

 

I appreciate you posts, dirtrider.

Bill