Turn Signal 05 - 1200ST

[100rider]

I apologize if this is a repeat but I didn't see it in the forum.

 

Currently the bike has 73500 miles.

 

I bought the bike used, 66K - around 70K I started getting the "bulb failure" indication, arrow indicating front.

 

I would lose the turn signals on the right side.  Also the 4-way flasher would only work on the left side when turned on.

 

Generally if the bike was off for about 10 minutes, it would clear and everything worked as normal.

 

Then it could be a a mile or 200 miles on the next ride and it would come on, or maybe not.  Could even be rough streets. I just haven't figured out anything common.

 

I cleaned the electrical connections, replaced the bulbs on the right side.  Again it could work fine for several days and then just start acting up again.

Sometimes while riding and it would fail, and then 5, 10, 40 minutes later I could push the right turn signal and it would work and the "failure" indication would go out.

 

I replaced the front turn signal connector and that lasted the longest at around 10 days, not sure about the number of miles I put on. Then yesterday it came on. When I started it this morning to go to work, it was off. Yet no more than 1/2 mile it had failed again.

 

Ive been chasing this problem longer than I should.. Is it a switch, a relay, a connector?  As someone who spent 16 years in electronics, this one is driving me batty.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Greg

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, 100rider said:

I apologize if this is a repeat but I didn't see it in the forum.

 

Currently the bike has 73500 miles.

 

I bought the bike used, 66K - around 70K I started getting the "bulb failure" indication, arrow indicating front.

 

I would lose the turn signals on the right side.  Also the 4-way flasher would only work on the left side when turned on.

 

Generally if the bike was off for about 10 minutes, it would clear and everything worked as normal.

 

Then it could be a a mile or 200 miles on the next ride and it would come on, or maybe not.  Could even be rough streets. I just haven't figured out anything common.

 

I cleaned the electrical connections, replaced the bulbs on the right side.  Again it could work fine for several days and then just start acting up again.

Sometimes while riding and it would fail, and then 5, 10, 40 minutes later I could push the right turn signal and it would work and the "failure" indication would go out.

 

I replaced the front turn signal connector and that lasted the longest at around 10 days, not sure about the number of miles I put on. Then yesterday it came on. When I started it this morning to go to work, it was off. Yet no more than 1/2 mile it had failed again.

 

Ive been chasing this problem longer than I should.. Is it a switch, a relay, a connector?  As someone who spent 16 years in electronics, this one is driving me batty.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Afternoon Greg

 

That is going to difficult to find unless you do your actual diagnostics while it is not working. 

 

You might have an intermittent open in the right side T/S wires, or a connector issue causing an open. Or even an intermittent short to ground in the supply side, or even a module problem. 

 

Personally I would probably do a voltage drop test paralleling the brown wire between turn signal socket & a clean engine ground, then another  direct to battery negative post. 

 

Then do a voltage drop test in the blue/black wire between the R/H T/S socket & the ZFE module #53 pin.

 

Problem is: if it is working then  you probably won't find anything.

 

Any chance that a previous owner tapped something into that R/H turn signal circuit like garage door opener?

 

 

 

 

 

[100rider]

Yeah I know it is going to be a pain to find, when its working.  As far as I know there is nothing else tapped into that circuit but Ill check.

 

The bad part is, I work in a different state then where I live and the bike won't go back to my home state until early October.  So I don't have all my tools readily available.

I've been happy with the dealer where I bought it and they have given me good service but this problem may take more than Id budget if I left it with them.

 

Thanks for your reply

 

Greg

[dirtrider]

Mourning   Greg

 

I reread your first post with a clear mind this morning & a clarification question entered my thinking.

 

I know you had a R/H turn signal problem but then with a new turn signal connector the problam stayed away for 10 days. 

 

Did you verify another R/H turn signal problem this time or just assume it was the same issue when the dash light-out warning & front facing arrow came on?

 

If the R/H turn signal wasn't verified as the problem then it's possible you have a headlight bulb issue causing the new warning.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[100rider]

Again, after I replaced the right front bulb and connector, it worked for about 10 days.  Problem  came back 2 days ago with both dash light-out warning and front facing arrow. It has not cleared itself.  When this happens and I turn on the right turn signal, I get no green arrow nor do the turn signals on the right side work.  Strangely after while riding about 30 min I can try the right turn signal, it will come on for about 1 blink then fault out again.

 

Just curious, how would a headlight bulb issue cause this? 

 

As far as I know, both headlight bulbs work, but Ill reverify

 

Again thanks for your help.

[100rider]

When I turn the key on (bike is not running), the running light comes on, the other bulbs are off.  I can turn on the high beams and both lights come on.

 

I started the bike and all 3 lights came on and the high beams work as well when selected.

 

So if the fault indicator is correct and it appears all 3 bulbs are working, what exactly is going on?

 

I will buy a new bulb and try it in each socket just to see.

 

 

To DIrtrider - I am not sure what the exact problem is. Originally I presumed it to be a turn signal issue as they randomly failed.  Yet the fault indicator on the dash says it is a front bulb.  Yet it appears all the bulbs in the front are working.  

 

Won't be able to do anything until this Wed afternoon Jul 13 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, 100rider said:

So if the fault indicator is correct and it appears all 3 bulbs are working, what exactly is going on?

 

I will buy a new bulb and try it in each socket just to see.

 

 

To DIrtrider - I am not sure what the exact problem is. Originally I presumed it to be a turn signal issue as they randomly failed.  Yet the fault indicator on the dash says it is a front bulb.  Yet it appears all the bulbs in the front are working.  

 

 

Afternoon 100rider

 

This is a difficult thing to diagnose over the internet, as you are finding it is really darn difficult to diagnose even when you are hands on.

 

Are you getting the yellow dash warning with a font facing arrow even when the R/H turn signal is still working? 

 

As additional information__  you can occasionally get a lights out warning even with all the lights working if the resistance is high or low in one of the light circuits (like a shorted filament in one of your H-7 bulbs, or a burnt ground connection on one of the front bulbs). Those H-7 bulbs use a very tightly wound filament so the windings don't have far to move to short one winding to another.  The BMW hexhead 1200RT's are also noted for burning the low (ground)  connection at the headlight bulbs.

 

Do all the headlights seem to have the same light output in the dark?

 

Are the turn signal bulbs all about the same brightness while flashing?  

 

Are both of the front side lights (parking lights) working OK? 

[dirtrider]

More added:

 

On the outside chance this could be effecting your motorcycle__

 

Over the history of the 1200 hexhead there has not been a good source of a key-on tap-in point to trigger an under-seat fuse box relay or to trigger a power relay to power a phone charger, GPS, or added driving lights.

 

So riders typically use the low beam 12v supply wire or the 12v supply wire going to one of the front side lights (parking lights)  as a power relay trigger. 

 

If you have any add-on items like GPS harness, or driving lights, or under-seat fuse box then make darn sure that isn't tied into one of your side lights, or into a low beam light as the trigger source. If you have such a thing then make sure it isn't effecting the load on that light circuit.    

 

 

[100rider]

I have no yellow triangle when this happens.  No extra running lights or aux power connections other than the built in one,  It also has the standard battery charging cable,

If the previous owner put any extra wiring in, I don't know about it and haven't found any.  Also I am not using an external device that runs off the bike

 

I did replace the battery about a month ago but this issue started before that.

 

Yes troubleshooting is extremely difficult over the net.

 

As far as I can tell brightness is the same on both bulbs.

 

Tomorrow Ill get a new bulb and see what happens

 

This is a US spec bike, so not sure if it has the parking light feature

[dirtrider]

16 hours ago, 100rider said:

I have no yellow triangle when this happens.  No extra running lights or aux power connections other than the built in one,  It also has the standard battery charging cable,

If the previous owner put any extra wiring in, I don't know about it and haven't found any.  Also I am not using an external device that runs off the bike

 

I did replace the battery about a month ago but this issue started before that.

 

Yes troubleshooting is extremely difficult over the net.

 

As far as I can tell brightness is the same on both bulbs.

 

Tomorrow Ill get a new bulb and see what happens

 

This is a US spec bike, so not sure if it has the parking light feature

Morning 100rider

 

U.S 1200RT's do have side lights (parking lights) as it is the law.

 

A side light that is out can put the front light-out warning on (bulb symbol with arrow pointing forward). 

 

 

[100rider]

First off, Dirtrider, a big thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.

 

I did get fixed.  Hopefully for good.  I replaced the lower headlamp first, turned the bike on (not started) and had the same error - front bad bulb indication and right side turn signals would not come on/  Left side did.  

 

I replaced the tops bulb (since I had bought 2). Turned the bike on, again not started, the bad bulb indication went out. tried the left and it worked, tried the right and if was flashing at twice the rate, the rear right turn signal bulb was out.  Seemed odd because I had replaced it when this problem originally started. Put the original bulb back in and now everything appears to be working.  Started the bike and rechecked all lights.  Good to go.  Ill drive it  tomorrow.

 

 Not sure what caused the rear turn signal to fail, as it has always come on when that side did work.

 

I did not check to see if one headlight bulb was the issue or the combination of both. Ill keep both just in case.

 

Also when I was removing the lower bulb socket, a piece of it broke and it was very dark in comparison to the top.  Overheating some how.  The wiring was fine. Ill see if I can track down the socket.

 

Again thanks for your help.

 

Greg 

 

P.S. - the ST doesn't have parking lights

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, 100rider said:

First off, Dirtrider, a big thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.

 

I did get fixed.  Hopefully for good.  I replaced the lower headlamp first, turned the bike on (not started) and had the same error - front bad bulb indication and right side turn signals would not come on/  Left side did.  

 

I replaced the tops bulb (since I had bought 2). Turned the bike on, again not started, the bad bulb indication went out. tried the left and it worked, tried the right and if was flashing at twice the rate, the rear right turn signal bulb was out.  Seemed odd because I had replaced it when this problem originally started. Put the original bulb back in and now everything appears to be working.  Started the bike and rechecked all lights.  Good to go.  Ill drive it  tomorrow.

 

 Not sure what caused the rear turn signal to fail, as it has always come on when that side did work.

 

I did not check to see if one headlight bulb was the issue or the combination of both. Ill keep both just in case.

 

Also when I was removing the lower bulb socket, a piece of it broke and it was very dark in comparison to the top.  Overheating some how.  The wiring was fine. Ill see if I can track down the socket.

 

Again thanks for your help.

 

Greg 

 

P.S. - the ST doesn't have parking lights

Afternoon 100rider

 

That is my fault for not going back to the beginning to see that you have a 1200ST, that is one of the problems with these on-going threads with delays in the feedback. I should have checked before relying on my memory & assuming it was an RT.

 

You should have a side light (actually a bottom light) on the 1200ST as it is required.  Look in the center on the very bottom (under the bottom headlight bulb) there should be a small 5 watt bulb there. 

 

Key-on engine not running (headlights not lit)  that lower bulb should be lit. It should also be lit with the headlight on (at least I'm pretty sure) but probably difficult to see it then. 

 

That actually is also the parking light. I'm not 100% sure on the 1200ST (you will have to look in your riders manual or just try it),  but on most of the 1200 hexhead to get the parking light to come on__   right after turning OFF the ignition key (you only have a short time) then just hold down the L/H turn signal paddle until the parking light comes on.