Help!! Seeking advice for purchase of my 1st wethead from longtime hexhead owner.

[Resinears]

My 1st post - apologies for jumping into the forum asking for help!

 

I'm in Canada, and suffer from a very short riding season, and particularly poor pavement due to the stresses of winter on our roads.

That said, I'm now looking at upgrading from a 2006 R1200RT to a newer 2014 - 2018 version, as a 2016 that I test rode the other day was a relevation.  Locally, I have the choice of several candidates, and find myself with the following dilemna:  

My favourite of 3 I've looked at is a 2016 with 51,000 km.  One owner, and the bike has been across Canada several times.  Every option including a large wired top-box, 2nd fob, NAV 5, etc. The senior owner is 6'5" and has equiped the bike with a larger windshield and other options that make it especially compatable for me.  More importantly, it has full service records, and is properly maintained.  The other two bikes have less than half the mileage of my 1st choice and as a result are less scuffed/road worn cosmetically, but don't have all the same options: one is missing the quick shifter and central locking but has NAV, while the other has a tiny top box, whereas I prefer the larger box.  All are priced within $500 of each other.  

Should I be worried about the effects of the higher mileage on the suspension of my 1st choice in comparison to 2 and 3?  Given the maintenance records, I don't really have any reservations about the motor, but I'm not sure about the longevity of the shocks on our crappy roads.  I previously had a 2006 GSA that had required a new rear shock at less than 60,000 km.  

 

Any advice or suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

 

Jeff

[Scott9999]

58 minutes ago, Resinears said:

My 1st post - apologies for jumping into the forum asking for help!

 

I'm in Canada, and suffer from a very short riding season, and particularly poor pavement due to the stresses of winter on our roads.

That said, I'm now looking at upgrading from a 2006 R1200RT to a newer 2014 - 2018 version, as a 2016 that I test rode the other day was a relevation.  Locally, I have the choice of several candidates, and find myself with the following dilemna:  

My favourite of 3 I've looked at is a 2016 with 51,000 km.  One owner, and the bike has been across Canada several times.  Every option including a large wired top-box, 2nd fob, NAV 5, etc. The senior owner is 6'5" and has equiped the bike with a larger windshield and other options that make it especially compatable for me.  More importantly, it has full service records, and is properly maintained.  The other two bikes have less than half the mileage of my 1st choice and as a result are less scuffed/road worn cosmetically, but don't have all the same options: one is missing the quick shifter and central locking but has NAV, while the other has a tiny top box, whereas I prefer the larger box.  All are priced within $500 of each other.  

Should I be worried about the effects of the higher mileage on the suspension of my 1st choice in comparison to 2 and 3?  Given the maintenance records, I don't really have any reservations about the motor, but I'm not sure about the longevity of the shocks on our crappy roads.  I previously had a 2006 GSA that had required a new rear shock at less than 60,000 km.  

 

Any advice or suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

 

Jeff

Well, at 32K miles, your target bike is no spring chicken, but it's also about average mileage for a six year old bike.   You didn't mention the model years of the other bikes, and that matters (certain parts, particularly those made with rubber age out, etc.).

 

As far as the "farkles" are concerned, that's a personal decision, but also a value one.  I specifically targeted "Premium" models which included every major package BMW offered, since the price differential between premium and lessor equipped bikes was much less substantial on used bikes, than the premium $$ paid for them on new BMW's.  The top box is a pretty big deal, costing about $1500 USD.  I bought my used RT from a dealer, and conditioned the sale on getting the box at dealer's cost (i.e. about $1000).  It's a good idea to look up the exact factory build configuration for your target bike by VIN, to verify exactly what (i.e. add on packages) you are actually buying in your target bike..  I covered this pretty thoroughly here.

 

As far as model year, I've written a bunch about it before, but can't find the right (past) post, so I'll try to repeat it here (with fewer words!).

 

My "Wethead" shopping decision:

• 2014:  No, 1st model year is "bleeding edge"; buy 'em later after the bugs have been worked out.  The 2014 RT's had a bunch of issues that I won't cover (look 'em up).
• 2015-2016:  Good bikes.  
• 2017-2018:  Better bikes, as there was a mid-model transmission upgrade in 2017.
• 2018: My choice, because of the above, prices on the 2018 RT I purchases, was less than many 2017's (or 2015-2016's for that matter), mine was under 12K miles and just had the 12K service.  I'd have been OK with a 2017 "Premium" model for less $$$, if the right one (low mileage, equipment, $$, etc.) were available.  Also, to point out the obvious, a 2018 motorcycle is 5 years NEWER than a 2014, 3 years newer than a 2015/6.  The age of a bike matters.  Also, mine was still under factory warranty.

The issues you mentioned, i.e. service history, one owner, are good considerations.   (Add in "garaged" to your criteria.  That's where my bike fell below expectations,  i.e. bought it sight unseen and unridden, shipped it to Idaho, and found out it spent it's life as a dealer loaner, sitting in California sunshine 🙄) The NAV5 is an older generation model, pre-Wethead.  Not a positive buying point, IMHO.  You can find NAV6's used for less than $500.  I bought a Garmin Zumo XT, and an installation bracket from Italy, so I have (IMHO) a better GPS than the BMW's Nav6, it's installed on the factory mount (snaps in and out, powers up or down like the NAV6), and aside from wizzy wheel functions, is better than the NAV6. 

 

"Should I be worried about the effects of the higher mileage"   FULL STOP.  Yes.   Not just suspension, but EVERY part of the bike is impacted by both age and mileage.  An older bike with higher mileage will generally cost you more in both maintenance and  time/annoyance, than a newer bike with lower mileage.  Yes, BMW's are well engineered, very reliable, and (power plant) long lasting, but they are not magic.  Don't "sell" yourself emotionally on a bike that's older and has higher mileage, if you can find one that has neither of those negatives.   If you're roads are destroying shocks, then the solution is to simply plan on buying an aftermarket one with a good (hopefully lifetime) warranty, lol, plus get a service manual disk and get very good and R&R a Wethead's shocks.

 

Again, this is all just one man's opinion, but this kind of thing is an emotional decision - can't avoid that -, so rigorously apply logic to your purchase decision.

 

 

 

 

 

[Resinears]

10 hours ago, Scott9999 said:

Well, at 32K miles, your target bike is no spring chicken, but it's also about average mileage for a six year old bike.   You didn't mention the model years of the other bikes, and that matters (certain parts, particularly those made with rubber age out, etc.).

 

As far as the "farkles" are concerned, that's a personal decision, but also a value one.  I specifically targeted "Premium" models which included every major package BMW offered, since the price differential between premium and lessor equipped bikes was much less substantial on used bikes, than the premium $$ paid for them on new BMW's.  The top box is a pretty big deal, costing about $1500 USD.  I bought my used RT from a dealer, and conditioned the sale on getting the box at dealer's cost (i.e. about $1000).  It's a good idea to look up the exact factory build configuration for your target bike by VIN, to verify exactly what (i.e. add on packages) you are actually buying in your target bike..  I covered this pretty thoroughly here.

 

As far as model year, I've written a bunch about it before, but can't find the right (past) post, so I'll try to repeat it here (with fewer words!).

 

My "Wethead" shopping decision:

• 2014:  No, 1st model year is "bleeding edge"; buy 'em later after the bugs have been worked out.  The 2014 RT's had a bunch of issues that I won't cover (look 'em up).
• 2015-2016:  Good bikes.  
• 2017-2018:  Better bikes, as there was a mid-model transmission upgrade in 2017.
• 2018: My choice, because of the above, prices on the 2018 RT I purchases, was less than many 2017's (or 2015-2016's for that matter), mine was under 12K miles and just had the 12K service.  I'd have been OK with a 2017 "Premium" model for less $$$, if the right one (low mileage, equipment, $$, etc.) were available.  Also, to point out the obvious, a 2018 motorcycle is 5 years NEWER than a 2014, 3 years newer than a 2015/6.  The age of a bike matters.  Also, mine was still under factory warranty.

The issues you mentioned, i.e. service history, one owner, are good considerations.   (Add in "garaged" to your criteria.  That's where my bike fell below expectations,  i.e. bought it sight unseen and unridden, shipped it to Idaho, and found out it spent it's life as a dealer loaner, sitting in California sunshine 🙄) The NAV5 is an older generation model, pre-Wethead.  Not a positive buying point, IMHO.  You can find NAV6's used for less than $500.  I bought a Garmin Zumo XT, and an installation bracket from Italy, so I have (IMHO) a better GPS than the BMW's Nav6, it's installed on the factory mount (snaps in and out, powers up or down like the NAV6), and aside from wizzy wheel functions, is better than the NAV6. 

 

"Should I be worried about the effects of the higher mileage"   FULL STOP.  Yes.   Not just suspension, but EVERY part of the bike is impacted by both age and mileage.  An older bike with higher mileage will generally cost you more in both maintenance and  time/annoyance, than a newer bike with lower mileage.  Yes, BMW's are well engineered, very reliable, and (power plant) long lasting, but they are not magic.  Don't "sell" yourself emotionally on a bike that's older and has higher mileage, if you can find one that has neither of those negatives.   If you're roads are destroying shocks, then the solution is to simply plan on buying an aftermarket one with a good (hopefully lifetime) warranty, lol, plus get a service manual disk and get very good and R&R a Wethead's shocks.

 

Again, this is all just one man's opinion, but this kind of thing is an emotional decision - can't avoid that -, so rigorously apply logic to your purchase decision.

 

 

 

 

 

Scott, many thanks for the very detailed and thoughtful response.  It feels like someone who "gets it", has just grabbed me by the shoulders and shaken some sense into me!  Everything you said rings true.  It's too easy to fall into the fanboy view that these bikes are bikes are barely broken in at 50,000 km's when my experience has shown me something else.  I do value the fully documented service history of the 2016 51,000 km bike, as it shows no expense was spared, and the owner gladly paid the cost for any prescribed, required, or recommended procedures.  But it remains that the bike has travelled some distance (with many of those miles fully loaded, with pillion).  I'm sure the suspension would suffer for it, as all of my previous and current bikes have.  FWIW, the other two bikes on my short list are MY 2015 and 2016, as I've avoided the 2014 for its 1st year status.  Good point that a NAV V is old tech.  I think I know which way I'm going to go...

Thanks again for you valuable advice!

Jeff

[Scott9999]

Lol, I'm a regular keyboard-pro.  Don't ride nearly enough, can't wrench, but I can keyboard unasked advice better than anyone around.  😁 

 

Good luck with your purchase, and most of all, get out there on that new bike before the first snow of the season, say .... in mid August?  🤣  (While the rest of the (USA) country seems to be in some sort of a heat wave, we just had two days of crap weather, mid-40F's, windy, rainy, and I was outside helping the mason I hired install stone on the house.  Finally getting something close to "normal", well, at least something near 70F.  So, I kinda feel your Canadian-weather-pain up here in Northern Idaho.)

[alegerlotz]

11 hours ago, Scott9999 said:

Well, at 32K miles, your target bike is no spring chicken, but it's also about average mileage for a six year old bike.   You didn't mention the model years of the other bikes, and that matters (certain parts, particularly those made with rubber age out, etc.).

 

<removed section>

 

"Should I be worried about the effects of the higher mileage"   FULL STOP.  Yes.   Not just suspension, but EVERY part of the bike is impacted by both age and mileage.  An older bike with higher mileage will generally cost you more in both maintenance and  time/annoyance, than a newer bike with lower mileage.  Yes, BMW's are well engineered, very reliable, and (power plant) long lasting, but they are not magic.  Don't "sell" yourself emotionally on a bike that's older and has higher mileage, if you can find one that has neither of those negatives.   If you're roads are destroying shocks, then the solution is to simply plan on buying an aftermarket one with a good (hopefully lifetime) warranty, lol, plus get a service manual disk and get very good and R&R a Wethead's shocks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My 2016 RT, which now has 45K miles on it, didn't even start to feel broken in until around 30K miles.  Around then the engine smoothed out that last little bit, etc...

 

Other than maintenance, a set of front brake pads, a battery after 38 months, and many sets of tires, my bike has been trouble free.  Personally, I wouldn't worry about that low mileage given the complete maintenance history being included.

[Cap]

I think it depends a bit on how much you plan to ride it before selling it.  If you think you might put 70k miles on it, then you should probably be looking at a new bike anyway.  Assuming that you might put less than another 30K miles on it, then in my opinion, well-maintained used bikes with 30k miles and lots of farkles are probably better than bikes with uncertain maintenance and lower miles.  There are a lot of things that benefit from regular maintenance.  And the suspension can wear out in either case: from time sitting or miles ridden.

 

But I would agree with Scott that your best bet is a 2018 or 2017.  The newest of the R1200's.  They shift a lot better.  White ones are faster and get better fuel economy.

 

Cap

[Resinears]

1 hour ago, Cap said:

I think it depends a bit on how much you plan to ride it before selling it.  If you think you might put 70k miles on it, then you should probably be looking at a new bike anyway.  Assuming that you might put less than another 30K miles on it, then in my opinion, well-maintained used bikes with 30k miles and lots of farkles are probably better than bikes with uncertain maintenance and lower miles.  There are a lot of things that benefit from regular maintenance.  And the suspension can wear out in either case: from time sitting or miles ridden.

 

But I would agree with Scott that your best bet is a 2018 or 2017.  The newest of the R1200's.  They shift a lot better.  White ones are faster and get better fuel economy.

 

Cap

 

That's a valid observation as well.  While the Walter Mitty in me envisions holidays without the wife, kid, and dog, enjoying long days of exploring back roads in the mountains that are ±4 hours away, in reality those trips will likely be few.  Interestingly, I've read experiences stating that the suspensions tend to respond to recalibration when they start to act wonky, although I'm sure there's a limit to what can be accomplished when there is actual significant physical deterioration of the shock components.  The newest I've looked at are 2015-2016 priced at ±$15,000 CAD.  The lone 2017 available locally is $2,500 more.  Hard to swallow that, given the 2015 I rode was great.  I am afraid to try a 1250, as the premium to get a 1st gen shift cam puts me almost double the price I'm imagining.  I can afford it, but not justify it.  

Of course, the white ones are faster, get better fuel economy, and are easier to clean.  I've never seen one in the wild though.  

 

Jeff

[MikeB60]

Nothing wrong with the NAV V.  Far more reliable than the Nav VI just not quite as bright as the VI. Definitely not old tech.

[Resinears]

Thanks for the comments and insights.  Today, I looked at a 2012 K1600 GTL that popped up in my area for less than the RT's I was considering.  I had to go look, and did end up riding it around some residential crescents to check out the low speed handling. Once I was comfortable with some low speed u-turns, I gave it a bit of throttle while still in residential surroundings, and was disappointed in the acceleration. A real lack of torque, although I never really got it above 3,000 rpm.  I'm sure it would have been different had I stretched its legs, but I much prefer the low end characteristics of even my existing 2006 RT.

 

I've found a reasonable deal at a local Harley Davidson dealer on a 2021 R1250RT with all the good stuff.  Big money, but at least $3,000 CAD less than the local BMW dealers price on a similar demo bike.  I'm so, so tempted.  

[Scott9999]

24 minutes ago, Resinears said:

Thanks for the comments and insights.  Today, I looked at a 2012 K1600 GTL that popped up in my area for less than the RT's I was considering.  I had to go look, and did end up riding it around some residential crescents to check out the low speed handling. Once I was comfortable with some low speed u-turns, I gave it a bit of throttle while still in residential surroundings, and was disappointed in the acceleration. A real lack of torque, although I never really got it above 3,000 rpm.  I'm sure it would have been different had I stretched its legs, but I much prefer the low end characteristics of even my existing 2006 RT.

 

I've found a reasonable deal at a local Harley Davidson dealer on a 2021 R1250RT with all the good stuff.  Big money, but at least $3,000 CAD less than the local BMW dealers price on a similar demo bike.  I'm so, so tempted.  

LOL, that's how it starts.  You set your starting goal, add a few more $$$ for "so much more bike", and as you understand the improvements of each model, the latest model becomes almost irresistible.  A 2021 R1250RT is functionally a new bike.  I'm not sure how many new things the latest shiftcams have over the '21's, but it can't be much.   I started thinking how much fun it's be to have the camhead of my dreams, back when I was riding my 2005 RT, when I first started looking around last fall. Then I moved into the Wetheads, reading 6 year old articles about how great the 2014 RT's were.  I "had to have" a Wethead.  I might have kept looking into the shiftcams, but more than price, availability just six months ago of a used shiftcam was near zero.   There were simply no used 2019-2021's for sale, as I looked around.  That kind of settled my search at the 2017/2018 level, as I've previously written

 

If I had a "reasonable deal" with "all the good stuff" on a shiftcam available last fall, more than likely, that's what I'd be riding today.  I still get the "new bike" excited feeling when I look at a newer 1250, but heck, my 2018 is so much more motorcycle than I ever had before, maybe I should actually ride the thing  a while, no?🙄😖   

 

It looks like you keep your bikes a while, so going with the 2021 RT should hold ya for some years.   Then again, almost everyone has a budget to work within, and it's no sin to not be able to afford the latest and greatest.   Actually, after I bought my 2018, I looked around and found some great deals on low mile Camhead's, at a cheap enough price that I could have bought both an RT and GS/GSA for the price I paid for my 2018 RT.   I had second thoughts, thinking how nice it'd be to have a pair of Beemer's in the garage, no compromise for touring or on/off road riding.  

 

One needs to return to budget, target desires, needs, and value reviews, before pulling the trigger.  The '21 still has a couple of years of warranty, too, so other than maintenance, your operating costs for fuel, rubber, and oil should be manageable. 

 

It really sounds like you have a bunch of good options, all good decisions, just some better than others.    Is there a problem buying a bike in the states and riding it up to Canada, e.g. high customs fees, regulations, etc.?   The bigger your market pool, the more likely you'll find exactly what you want.  If you want to buy and fly, to pick it up, buying from a BMW dealer is probably your safest option.  At least ya know that (a) your seller actually owns the bike, and (b) when you ship your cash to them, you'll actually receive your bike (maybe even shipped, if you don't want to make the long ride back to Canada). 

[9Mary7]

On 6/17/2022 at 11:43 PM, Scott9999 said:

Camhead's