Normal for a Hexhead?

[1200Arty]

I've had my 09 RT for about 6 weeks.  It has done 19k miles.

 

After about a week (cold January) bike would not start - battery 12.8V at rest but dropped to 7V on cranking. Dealer sent me a new one.  Since then I've had "no starts" on 3 occasions.  Bought a UniCarScan diagnostic tool and Electronics section said I had an immobiliser issue. Dealer said "rubbish" and error code was as a result of my old battery having insufficient cranking voltage.  Finally, I called out breakdown service and the guy (who was a mechanic) said the "no start" was because I need to use the throttle when cold.  Never had this on my Japanese bikes but I suppose the old choke had a similar effect.  Yes I now see User Guide does mention it.  Incidentally, can the existence of an error code itself prevent a bike from starting?

 

The other issue relates to clunky gearbox/final drive if the clutch is engaged/disengaged at very slow speeds - is the normal?

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[dirtrider]

34 minutes ago, 1200Arty said:

I've had my 09 RT for about 6 weeks.  It has done 19k miles.

 

After about a week (cold January) bike would not start - battery 12.8V at rest but dropped to 7V on cranking. Dealer sent me a new one.  Since then I've had "no starts" on 3 occasions.  Bought a UniCarScan diagnostic tool and Electronics section said I had an immobiliser issue. Dealer said "rubbish" and error code was as a result of my old battery having insufficient cranking voltage.  Finally, I called out breakdown service and the guy (who was a mechanic) said the "no start" was because I need to use the throttle when cold.  Never had this on my Japanese bikes but I suppose the old choke had a similar effect.  Yes I now see User Guide does mention it.  Incidentally, can the existence of an error code itself prevent a bike from starting?

 

The other issue relates to clunky gearbox/final drive if the clutch is engaged/disengaged at very slow speeds - is the normal?

 

Thanks

 

Paul

Afternoon Paul

 

First, you can't always trust the fault code from a non- GS-911 scanner. They are usually correct but I have seen cases where they weren't  correct.

 

Do you see EWS showing on the dash when it won't start???????????????--  If that is showing then it won't start (that is the BMW key-to-fueling computer-handshake). Basically the immobilizer. If EWS is present post back with that info & we can try to help you. Are you using a factory key with a coding pellet in it???? If you have more than one key try them all. 

 

If no EWS showing then probably not an  immobilizer issue. 

 

Depends on the code showing & what it is indicating if it could prevent starting.  Some will & some won't. Obviously an immobilizer issue (current) would prevent engine starting. 

 

Does your motorcycle have an anti-theft system? If so those can usually disable the engine starting. 

 

The other issue relates to clunky gearbox/final drive if the clutch is engaged/disengaged at very slow speeds - is the normal?-- Could be (probably is) normal, but without hearing, feeling, or riding that motorcycle no way to tell if what YOU HAVE is normal. 

 

 

[1200Arty]

Thanks DR for you prompt response.

 

Yes I did see EWS on display the first time the "no start" occured.  That happened before the battery was replaced.  I have cleared all fault codes now, but if I recall correctly the  Electronics Section showed a code of 25bf.  I did look the code up at the time and it said "Immobiliser". 

 

Paul

[dirtrider]

21 minutes ago, 1200Arty said:

Thanks DR for you prompt response.

 

Yes I did see EWS on display the first time the "no start" occured.  That happened before the battery was replaced.  I have cleared all fault codes now, but if I recall correctly the  Electronics Section showed a code of 25bf.  I did look the code up at the time and it said "Immobiliser". 

 

Paul

Afternoon Paul

 

Then that EWS showing in most likely your no starting problem.

 

On the BMW hexhead motorcycles an EWS is usually caused by a failed antenna ring on bottom of the ignition switch.    But this assumes the problem just popped up on daily ridden previously good working motorcycle. 

 

Tell us about your keys, are they OEM, any changes or substitutions to those before the problem appeared? 

 

Has that  motorcycle been in YOUR hands & your usage for a while now? 

 

WHEN did the EWS first appear?????????????????????

 

What country is the motorcycle in & from? 

 

We need all the history on that motorcycle that you can furnish, how long you have had it, & how many miles you have ridden it plus anything else that you can think of that could help us.

 

Most likely the antenna ring but we don't want to overlook something else that could be effecting that EWS  problem.  

[1200Arty]

20 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Paul

 

Then that EWS showing in most likely your no starting problem.

 

On the BMW hexhead motorcycles an EWS is usually caused by a failed antenna ring on bottom of the ignition switch.    Yes I've read about the antenna. But this assumes the problem just popped up on daily ridden previously good working motorcycle.

Ive have ridden the bike 1600 miles since Jan this year when I bought it, but the mileage for the  previous 4 years were, 74, 132, 4531 and 1891.

 

Tell us about your keys, are they OEM, any changes or substitutions to those before the problem appeared? Dealer I bought the bike from had a "second" key made as one of the two did not work.  I've tried both but makes no difference.  Currently using the new key.

 

Has that  motorcycle been in YOUR hands & your usage for a while now? See above

 

WHEN did the EWS first appear????????????????????? Only once in January this year - not since.

 

What country is the motorcycle in & from? In UK, made in Germany

 

We need all the history on that motorcycle that you can furnish, how long you have had it, & how many miles you have ridden it plus anything else that you can think of that could help us.

 

Most likely the antenna ring but we don't want to overlook something else that could be effecting that EWS  problem.  Since the breakdown guy told me to open the throttle slightly no more problems. 

 

[dirtrider]

5 minutes ago, 1200Arty said:

 

 

Quote

Since the breakdown guy told me to open the throttle slightly no more problems.

 

Afternoon Paul

 

So it is now starting OK without the EWS showing? 

[1200Arty]

Yep, but it's only a few days since I got the advice about using the throttle.  I see the User Manual does suggest using the throttle when engine cold.

[dirtrider]

1 minute ago, 1200Arty said:

Yep, but it's only a few days since I got the advice about using the throttle.  I see the User Manual does suggest using the throttle when engine cold.

Afternoon Paul

 

Yes, in cool or cold weather using some throttle really helps cold starting, some hexheads rarely need that & others need it almost every time in cool/cold ambient temps. 

 

But IF the EWS on the dash is lit then it won't ever start no matter what the throttle position.

[1200Arty]

Strange - I remember "EWS" flashed up but not permanently displayed.  Similarly,  when trying to start without the throttle, the battery icon would flash.  Bike started on most occasions when new battery fitted despite the earlier "EWS" flash.

[dirtrider]

41 minutes ago, 1200Arty said:

Strange - I remember "EWS" flashed up but not permanently displayed.  Similarly,  when trying to start without the throttle, the battery icon would flash.  Bike started on most occasions when new battery fitted despite the earlier "EWS" flash.

Afternoon Paul

 

I don't know what to tell you but (IF)  EWS is lit on the dash then the ignition is locked out until that EWS goes away.  

 

Or, if your scanner shows a trapped "immobilizer" fault then at one time the EWS was acting up.  

 

Clear the stored "immobilizer" fault then see if it comes back, if so then you need to address that as the immobilizer can leave you stranded.  Once that immobilizer (EWS) system fails there is no way to start it until you repair the EWS component that is causing the problem. 

 

 

[1200Arty]

6 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Clear the stored "immobilizer" fault then see if it comes back, if so then you need to address that as the immobilizer can leave you stranded.  Once that immobilizer (EWS) system fails there is no way to start it until you repair the EWS component that is causing the problem. 

 

Yes I've cleared the fault code. and it hasn't reappeared yet.

Unless I've misunderstood the Antenna solutions, they are either very expensive and complicated or not very sightly and could impact the chances of selling in the future.

 

Thanks again for all your thoughts and ideas

 

Paul

[dirtrider]

2 minutes ago, 1200Arty said:

 

Yes I've cleared the fault code. and it hasn't reappeared yet.

Unless I've misunderstood the Antenna solutions, they are either very expensive and complicated or not very sightly and could impact the chances of selling in the future.

 

Thanks again for all your thoughts and ideas

 

Paul

Afternoon Paul 

 

The EWS issue (if it returns) is usually a key issue or an antenna ring issue. No big deal to install a new antenna ring as it just unbolts & new one plugs into the wire harness. 

[Scott9999]

55 minutes ago, 1200Arty said:

.... the ... solutions, they are either very expensive and complicated or not very sightly and could impact the chances of selling in the future.

 

We have a secret code we use for all Beemer related problems like this.   It's:

"TADT"

 

Now that you're privy to the secret code, you MUST guard it with your very life.  Got it?  Good.

 

OOhh, I forgot to add the definition:  "They All Do That"

 

Let me put it another way.  We pay quite a bit for these rides, and both parts and repairs are accordingly, expensive.  Another meme states:  "The only thing cheap on a BMW is it's rider".

 

To get to my point:  There are 1001 things that can go wrong with your BMW RT, and a good many of them could be "very expensive and complicated or not very sightly and could impact the chances of selling it in the future".  New owners reading up on the latest bugs and things that go bump in the night on a enthusiasts web site like this one, have a tendency to rapidly do the Beemer freak out dance, worrying about stuff that hasn't happened to THEIR BMW, and probably, never will.  Sure, there are reasonable precautions based upon known deficiencies, like lubricating transmission and driveshaft splines that seem to regularly come from the factory bone dry.  Actually, all bikes have their quirks, but you own THIS bike, hence, the freakout dance.

 

Just maintain it reasonably, and enjoy the thing.  Your initial bad experience is probably the last one you'll ever have.   These machines are solid pieces of engineering.

 

[1200Arty]

Thanks Scott for the encouragement

 

Paul

[1200Arty]

17 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Paul 

 

The EWS issue (if it returns) is usually a key issue or an antenna ring issue. No big deal to install a new antenna ring as it just unbolts & new one plugs into the wire harness. 

 

DR thinking about your statement, would you please clarify for me whether the antenna ring and the immobiliser are one and the same thing, as the Clymer & Haynes manuals only refer to "Immobiliser"?  I don't have an OEM manual.

 

If they are the same, the manuals say that 2 screws have to be drilled out??

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, 1200Arty said:

 

DR thinking about your statement, would you please clarify for me whether the antenna ring and the immobiliser are one and the same thing, as the Clymer & Haynes manuals only refer to "Immobilizer"?  I don't have an OEM manual.

 

If they are the same, the manuals say that 2 screws have to be drilled out??

 

Thanks

 

Paul

Morning Paul

 

The antenna ring is part of the Immobilizer system.  The antenna ring is on the front of the ignition switch. 

 

BMW manual calls it a  ( ring aerial ). 

[1200Arty]

Cheers

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, 1200Arty said:

Cheers

More__

 

Antenna Ring __

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon  Paul

 

If you think that your antenna ring is failing but not sure or don't want to change it yet then you can do what a lot of us did back in the early 1200GS/RT days.

 

That is to buy and carry a spare antenna ring along with your spare (properly coded  key).  If your antenna ring suddenly fails, or you get an EWS warning that just won't go away (with no start),  then just tape your spare key into that new antenna ring, unplug the original then plug in the new one & zip tie it out of harms way. 

 

It will start & work just fine until you can find the time & place to permanently install it.