If you've ever wondered why car and bike dealerships experience high turnover and poor work from techs.

[John Ranalletta]

Not all but most....
 

 

[Scott9999]

I'm not all that hard on service guys who do their job.  Compensation, competence and effort levels very a WHOLE lot.

(I'm sorry, but I gave up on this video after about a minute of his complaining about 3 minutes "extra work", as he worked one handed on a customer's car while holding a cell phone and narrating.)

 

Example:  I've heard a rotational "ticking" noise that I couldn't quite track down.  I knew it was "something", and I suspected it might be a bearing.  I even had it into a local Ford dealer last fall, and then couldn't reproduce it.

Well, short story LONG(!),  I had my snow tires mounted a few days before Christmas.  They didn't "feel" right, I even thought that maybe one of the weights slipped off, but I also knew no shop in town (let alone Costco who did the work) would allow me to drive and have the issue checked out as a "drive up" customer.  I was heading out on a 1000 mile Christmas trip, the snow tires were 3 or 4 seasons old, and I said "heck with hit, we'll deal with it when we get back". Well, when we get back, the tires sound totally thrashed, i.e. noise like I'm rolling a 4x4 with huge knobby mud tires (versus a Ford Edge passenger car).   I thought "Nuts, Costco has ruined another set of tires ...".  I had the snow tires removed early (Feb) and the 5000-mile-new All Season's mounted, and mentioned the issue.  Costco said that they believed my right-front-passenger was bent, and that might be the issue.   SOooo, I made an appointment a month away at a local Ford dealership to have the Edge serviced and the issue checked out.

 

Appointment 7:45AM.   

Ticket:  Oil change & "full diagnostics".  It also mentions the suspected bent rim

Cost:  About $150 ($100 for the diagnostics).

ETA:  11:00 AM, and I'm waiting on it.

 

11AM, nothing.  I finally track down the service advisor, and he says "the tech is with his foreman, and their using a stethoscope to figure out if there's a problem, and on which wheel might be the problem".  🙄

My first thought was "OMG, they're on a wild goose chase with a rookie tech, on my dime!".  The second:  "WTH have they been doing with the vehicle for three hours - the oil change only takes 1/2 hour." 

 

By noon, the word comes back, "Yep, it's the right drivers side bearing, and the tech's are headed to lunch, so we'll schedule you a date sometime next summer to fix this ....".

Ok, they didn't say next summer, but it routinely requires at least a month to six weeks just to schedule an oil change at this place.  It's our only vehicle, and I want the dang thing fixed.  The day for me is already gone, so I tell the guy I'll wait.  He looks shocked.  Wasn't what he wanted to hear.   I also asked him about the front right rim.  He said something to the effect, "Oh, that would require dismounting the wheel and checking balance, etc.."   I replied, "That's OK."

 

New estimate:  $450 P&L  (plus original $150)

 

They do the work.  Done about 15 min early.   Problem appears fixed.  All good.

 

EXCEPT: 

• They seemed to put me, a customer with an appointment for service a MONTH ahead, at the back of their service line.  A two hour service cost ME a full day.
• They charged me $550 for this procedure (plus the oil change), but in every shop I've ever been to over about 50 years, the "diagnostic fee" is part of service, after they fix the issue.
• The service writer gave me the same B.S. as I paid the bill, when I asked him  about the right front rim, i.e. they didn't bother checking it.   My issue:  I've never had bearing go bad on a vehicle in 50 years, including some over 100K miles.  Why did this happen?  If it was due to a bad rim "torqueing" the bearings, and tearing 'em up, that rim (after 2x tire mounting/dismounting) could have been on the rear wheel bearing that was damaged.  I don't trust the Costco guys, I wanted to know for certain (i.e. balancing, dial indicator, etc.).  They blew it off.
• I paid for a full service "oil change", plus a "diagnostic".  When I asked the service writer about the status of the coolant (was going to replace it myself anyways), his response "Oh, that's not part of a diagnostic."

I've been told that I have too high of expectations of people (well, yeah, I'm a perfectionist, so I don't put anything on anyone else that I don't expect from myself).   I didn't get immediately angry.  I took some time to think about it, and decide if I want to write the dealership GM.   After refection, "to heck with writing, they won't care".   Angry, yep, I am.   Future service:  Never again, at this dealership.  This really was the first dealership that I've regularly gone to for service (both this vehicle and my diesel F250 I had a few years back), because when I got here seven years ago, their rates were reasonable, and service excellent.   Nope, not going there anymore.  Can't trust them.

 

Problem is, I'm still "new" to this area, and don't know of a private shop I could rely on, either.  (Between having only one vehicle and the complexity, though I do a lot of my own work, not doing this one.)   When I find the right shop, they get ALL my work, and I'm happy to pay them for their time at their rates.

 

(Hope I didn't pull this thread off topic.  Apologies to John, if so.  Apologies to everyone else for the long, boring, overly detailed story.)

 

 

[Skywagon]

John… I watched a lot of it and get his point. As I’ve posted before, my dad owned a Chevrolet dealership growing up. I worked there off and on up through college. I spent a lot of time in the shop. He had a shop rate and of course the book flat rate. From memory, which is fallible, the techs were paid the same whether working or not. The full time techs were on weekly salary plus overtime. The part timers were hourly. Most things that got charged a flat rate were completed in less time. Flat rate usually was far better than bidding. If the flat rate was not working, not enough charge, then he could appeal to his GM Regional and get reimbursed

 

It may all be different now as dad sold in 1977. I have a feeling the tech in the video might be part time, otherwise if he is just paid off of flat rate, every time he goes to the bathroom or takes lunch he isn’t getting paid if he is just % of flat rate then if he is any good, works fast, he will make extra most of the time. 
 

I think DR knows a lot of people in the industry. Perhaps he might weigh in

[John Ranalletta]

I had many auto dealers as clients.   The turnover in most of their shops was very high.  On average, a tech would have to "book", i.e. complete 60 hours of flat rated work in 40 hours to make any money.  But, that's not the real issue.

 

Think about the characteristics you'd prefer in a tech who's working on your car or bike.  I'd like to think the tech is a perfectionist who won't cut corners and a process-oriented, patient person who makes sure s/he doesn't skip steps.  Unfortunately, the flat rate method of compensating techs works against both of those traits.  It puts time and financial pressure on the tech who needs to hurry to "beat the book".  One dealer chain pays techs a very low weekly base rate and the tech couldn't earn a decent weekly wage until he completed 60 hours of flat rate work in 40 hours.

 

My BIL often complains about the time the BMW dealer charged him 8 hours of flat rate and called him 2 hours after he dropped the car to tell him it was done.  Dealer said, "That's what the flat rate book says to charge.  That's what we charge."  If the work takes more than the book says, the tech takes it one the chin, not the dealer.

 

The guy in the video is the kind of tech I'd prefer to use.  Yes, he's complaining @Scott9999, but not for himself.  He volunteered to do the tire replacement to help out the shop and save other techs knowing it was a loser.  IMO, he's taking up for techs, especially newbies, who get raped financially by the flat rate system. Notice that he's got 288k subscribers and that video got 77k views in less than a day.  Why?  Because he does great work; explains what and how he does it; and, is always careful to make sure the job's done correctly - even while holding a camera in one hand.

 

 

[9Mary7]

I worked in Powersports Sales at 2 large dealerships where I live now, for three years total after I retired from my career. High turnover of techs is directly a management problem....... either they made a hire they shouldn't have, or they mistreat and don't pay the good techs. Saw it happen at both places......piss poor management.

YMMV

[Scott9999]

I actually factored that in to my assessment, i.e. that this dealer is probably just trying to keep a full staff, and experience may be variable.  That's why I wasn't particularly upset about the long wait for appointments, or that it took about 3x as long as it should have.   What really ticked me off is the "assessment" charge, when they really didn't do much of anything to earn that.  I told them up front that I suspected it was that bearing.  The cost of repair was less than I expected, because I'd only seen a bearing replacement (video) on a Ford Edge front bearing (lots of disassembly required).  Obviously, this was a much simpler procedure without all the front end tie rods, and etc., and possible re-alignment required.

 

Finding a good tech is more than just a honest, hard working guy.  Just like in my business (IT), the true analyst who can can quickly figure out root cause to a complex problem is like 1 in 50, maybe 1 of 100.  Some of that can be trained, but some of it's just a natural, God given, problem solving ability.  I had some good mentors, but again, some of my analytical ability was talent I was born with.  (Then again, the really GOOD one's could flat out embarrass me.)  At virtually every site I went in to as a "hired gun", I was hired for "A", but ended up working on "X", "Y", and "Z", because "no one else could be found with the right experience", or "this is old, unsupported technology, company who developed is gone", or "there's this missing component we forgot we would need, there's no design or plan, it's holding up a $Billion implementation, my job is on the line, so YOUR contract is too ...can you help?!"  😏   I got hired to fix problems, frequently problems they didn't know they had.   In the same way, a good "tech" can probably figure out a BMW motorcycle problem as quickly as a German car problem, or Italian car problem, or whatever platform he's trained on.   He'll use manuals, but only after he's used his eyes, and pretty much knows where the problem will lie.  Dealers should pay those guys in the multiple six figures, because they can make everyone better.  They can make or break the dealer's entire reputation (not just the service department).

[John Ranalletta]

There's a local guy who's a m/c tech during the day.  He mounts and balances m/c tires 3 evenings a week in a small shop for 25 bucks a pop.  The evening I was there, 3 guys were standing in line.  I figure he grossed about $75-100/hour.  Not bad and I bet he doesn't make that much in his day job.