Headlight Modulator??

[JamesW]

In the January issue of Rider magazine the safety guy (Eric Trow) talks about what happened to a good friend of his while riding with a headlight modulator in operation.  As most know a headlight modulator continuously flashes between headlight off and high beam on to get approaching traffic's attention and is legal in all states.  I use one of these devices from Kisan on my R1100RSL and it does get people's attention in fact some people see me approaching from behind them and immediately pull over and let me pass probably thinking I'm an emergency vehicle of some kind.  Anyway, what happened with Erica's friend is he was approaching a vehicle that was signaling to make a left turn and apparently the driver interpreted the flashing high beam as a signal that it was alright to proceed with a left turn which the driver did causing the motorcyclist to do a broadside hit.  This really got me thinking and I'm kind of not sure about using my modulator.  It is true that drivers do interpret a high beam flash as a communications device between drivers that indicate things like dim your lights, go ahead with your turning maneuver, I'm going to pass and so on.  With my modulator I have even seen approaching motorists get angry and lay on the horn and even give me the high sign as in the old middle appendage.  

 

So, what think you about the safety of using a headlight modulator?  I'm really beginning to question the possible negative effects of the device on the motoring public that seems in general becoming overall more aggressive in today's society what with the increase in stress levels brought on by the political climate and the virus to name what I think are the two main elements at work today.  Also, we have distractions like video game playing and babbling and texting on smart (dumb) phones.

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, JamesW said:

In the January issue of Rider magazine the safety guy (Eric Trow) talks about what happened to a good friend of his while riding with a headlight modulator in operation.  As most know a headlight modulator continuously flashes between headlight off and high beam on to get approaching traffic's attention and is legal in all states.  I use one of these devices from Kisan on my R1100RSL and it does get people's attention in fact some people see me approaching from behind them and immediately pull over and let me pass probably thinking I'm an emergency vehicle of some kind.  Anyway, what happened with Erica's friend is he was approaching a vehicle that was signaling to make a left turn and apparently the driver interpreted the flashing high beam as a signal that it was alright to proceed with a left turn which the driver did causing the motorcyclist to do a broadside hit.  This really got me thinking and I'm kind of not sure about using my modulator.  It is true that drivers do interpret a high beam flash as a communications device between drivers that indicate things like dim your lights, go ahead with your turning maneuver, I'm going to pass and so on.  With my modulator I have even seen approaching motorists get angry and lay on the horn and even give me the high sign as in the old middle appendage.  

 

So, what think you about the safety of using a headlight modulator?  I'm really beginning to question the possible negative effects of the device on the motoring public that seems in general becoming overall more aggressive in today's society what with the increase in stress levels brought on by the political climate and the virus to name what I think are the two main elements at work today.  Also, we have distractions like video game playing and babbling and texting on smart (dumb) phones.

Afternoon James

 

The to be legal the modulator doesn't flash between high & low beam, it actually flashes the headlight beam not quite to off ( dims to a certain percentage then back to 100%).

 

The reason given above is why I personally don't like or use the headlight modulators. I tried one years ago & it caused me more grief & instances like mentioned above than I thought it ever helped. But I am an avoidance rider (ride around problems,  not brake for intrusions)  so I normally don't want to be seen at the last moment.  

 

If someone sees me before advancing then that is just great, but if they don't see me then the last thing I want is for them to see me at the last moment & change their line, or do something more stupid or unpredictable.

 

If they keep doing the same stupid thing they started to do I then just ride around the problem. It's when they try to correct the stupid at the last moment that causes me the most problems. 

[wbw6cos]

@Lowndes to the white courtesy phone, please.

[Michaelr11]

I have been riding with Kisan headlight modulators for literally hundreds of thousands of miles. I am far safer riding with them.

 

There can be an anecdote for any situation, but that’s what it is, an anecdote. Almost every time I ride, I notice a vehicle at an intersection or a driveway that applies brakes earlier than usual as I approach. There’s an occasional pull over, maybe once or twice a year. There is a high beam flash from an approaching car occasionally, not sure if that’s a reaction to the high beam or the modulation. But, at least they see me.  I always assume they don’t see me and prepare for that, but in my experience the headlight modulators are an outstanding safety addition to my bikes.  And I have never had a car driver interpret it for permission to proceed.

[Scott9999]

All good points above, and it has given me pause to think. 

 

During the "early days" of motorcycle lighting (however you mark that period), there really weren't all that many options.   The modulator was one of the earlier mods that really seemed to work.  I had one on my first RT-P; I can't recall if I put one on my hexhead RT (probably did).  I had considered installing one on the new-to-me wethead, but the lighting on these RT's is already pretty good.  If I replace my front lights with high lumen LED's, even better.  (I'm probably running LED high-beams during daylight, but we have a lot of "sub-daylight" hours in Northern Idaho, and I'm not sure if high-beams will be too bright for day time riding.)  

 

Anyhow, with good forward lighting, a rear brake light/strobe, and additional LED's lighting under the mirrors (i.e. in a position as wide as possible), I probably won't need to headlight modulator.    In other words, we have many (perhaps) better options available then we did in years past.  I'll probably pass on the modulator, this go around.

[JamesW]

One other large issue I live with has to do with where I live that being the Oregon Coast where I've lived since '81.  The coast has become a major tourist destination much like Yellowstone NP.  The majority of visitors come from that golden state of mind called California.  Many of these folks have an attitude.  They can be rude  obnoxious people in a heartbeat.  We know several checkers at the local Fred Meyer store that absolutely dread summer and what it brings up this way.  For example In Oregon we are not allowed to dispense our own fuel to our vehicles motorcycles being the exception.  I've seen people from mainly CA jump out of their cars at the gas station and insist on pumping their own gas and become very irate when the attendant takes the nozzle away from them.  These people could care less if the station is issued a citation for allowing this violation of state law to occur and the state does have inspectors looking for this kind of violation by service stations.  I used to think it humorous when I saw these confrontations take place but not so much anymore.  Point is attitudes like this produce road hazards for the unsuspecting at risk motorcyclist and that's the reason I ride with a headlight modulator on my BMW and very high intensity LED lights on my FJR which also has a low profile amber strobe light activated by brake application mounted on top of the GIVI V46 trunk.  

 

As far as the headlight modulator is concerned I'm not going to remove it but I am going to make sure I switch to low beam when approaching a vehicle traveling in the same direction as me and if a driver flips his high beams on when approaching me I will immediately switch to low beam until we clear each other.  My BMW has an OEM headlight on/off - high/low beam switch installed otherwise I would remove the modulator.  You just can't be too careful out there now more than ever.

 

Speaking of Rider magazine it just keeps getting better as of late.

 

Oh, I don't mean to imply that all folks from CA have an attitude because there are many that are OK and accept the philosophy that when in Rome do as the Romans do.  There once was an Oregon governor (Tom McCall) who made the statement:  "Come and visit but for heavens sake please don't stay".  This statement has most unfortunately been distorted as in:  "Come up and spend your money then get the hell out!"   The welcome signs at the boarder crossings used to say, " Welcome to Oregon we hope you enjoy your visit".  That has been changed to: " Oregon Welcomes You".  

 

[Scott9999]

1 hour ago, JamesW said:

For example In Oregon we are not allowed to dispense our own fuel to our vehicles motorcycles being the exception.  I've seen people from mainly CA jump out of their cars at the gas station and insist on pumping their own gas and become very irate when the attendant takes the nozzle away from them.  These people could care less if the station is issued a citation for allowing this violation of state law to occur and the state does have inspectors looking for this kind of violation by service stations.

 

Fully agree with you about ~~~ some Californian's ~~~ attitudes, which is partly why I'm no longer a Californian. 😏

 

We're traveling a bit off topic here, so I'll try not to belabor the point too much.  However, most Californians still believe that they're in the USA when they enter Oregon, and expect the laws to be mostly the same.  I'll bet not 1 in 500 "foreigners" from across the border understand Oregon's filling station laws.  I know the background behind the law, and have no problem with a state that chooses to exercise it's independence and protect certain jobs at the expense of the rest of the citizens.  But only two states and one city in third state in the USA, have such ridiculous laws.  They are not common.  Moreover, some of those irate Californian customers expect that the attendant is running a scam like people on the street washing car windows and insisting on a gratuity for the privilege of receiving their unwanted "services".  Once they understand the law, they may not like it or agree with it, but like me, it's no big deal.  The fuel prices are posted at the pump, someone runs your card and fills your tank, and we're all good.  (I even give an occasional tip for the service, or try to.)

 

I think Oregonians need to be a bit less sensitive, but ya know, we all have our expectations fueled by our past experiences.  As an Idahoan, I realize that the change in traffic patterns over the past five years isn't really due to idiot people from nearby Washington and the FLOOD of lousy-driving Californians, who are now trying to run me off the road, or run me into the ground while on my Beemer.   It's a false expectation based on my past experiences in CA and WA. 🤔🤣   There are idiots in all 50 states, and sometimes, I'm one of them, too (or so my wife tells me).🙄😖

[JamesW]

One more thing and I'm back on topic.  I don't mind at all not having to get out of my car in a driving rain/wind to pump gas.  Oh, I was in Montana a few years ago and stopped for fuel.  I got thoroughly confused by the gas pump as in I couldn't figure it out.  Several cars got behind me waiting for me to get on with it and I got so flustered and humiliated I just got back in the vehicle and headed out.  They were all laughing and one glance at my license plate was no doubt the reason. Duuuhhhhhh....

 

Oh, and the wife doesn't like pumping her own gas either as in she doesn't like gas on her hands or covid virus either and maybe even a few other unmentionables from "some dirty old man'".  lol..lol..

[92Merc]

I used to use a HL modulator on my previous bike.  But that was a halogen setup and I could.  With the new RT, I can't.

 

Here's the thing, we will never know the intention of the other people until after the fact/action.  All we're doing is analyzing the situation with hindsight.  In my opinion, HL modulators do more good than harm.  No matter if we have a modulator or not, a good rider will ride defensively.  We can't base our decisions on how the other person may or may not interpret us as riders.  We have to make quick decisions based on what we believe will give us the best outcome.  So anything we can do to make ourselves more visible is a good thing.

 

Even though I have been well seen on the RT vs. my old bike with a modulator, I would still install one if I could.  But being a bigger bike, LED headlights, LED Darla's, tail light modulator, I've done pretty well at being seen.

[Miguel!]

I do not like looking at modulator's on others bikes so chose not to put one on my bike. I have yellow running lights that are quite obvious and, as others have said in other threads, many people associate a single/double headlight with yellow running lights as a motorcycle. I have Clearwater Darla running lights with yellow lenses. The yellow lenses make me obvious in a sea of white headlights. The Darlas are quite bright and visible from a long way away. I also have a 10,000 lumen LED headlight that is quite bright and the beam is well behaved. I always run it on high beam during the day and rarely get flashed. I make a concerted effort to switch to low beam when the beam will be directly into someones field of view, like sweeping right hand turns. Left hand turns are generally not a problem because the beam pattern is well behaved. 

Miguel

[Randyjaco]

On my previous bikes instead of a headlight modulator, I have used a flashing white LED below the headlight for the same purpose. It was pretty bright,  but not as much as a headlight. Due to the complexities of my 17RT, I haven't even tried to install it yet. But I like the idea of the flashing attention getter up front, though.

[Red]

modulators irritate me.  I'm sure they irritate others as well.  Just what we need is a segment of the population harboring hostilities toward motorcyclists.  I can also imagine some ill mannered maneuvers by a car who is being passed by a MC with a modulator.  Nope, you couldn't pay me to install one.

[Lowndes]

Michaelr11 above said it best for me.  Totally agree and my experience is the same.

 

There is a big difference between bright lights and a blinking/flashing/strobing lights.  A bright light "can be seen" but a blinking light WILL get your attention.  That's why they are so annoying to some people.  Your eyes can't help but go to the blinking over and over again.  Our, and most animal's eyes are drawn to movement instinctively and blinking lights are seen or interpeted as movement.  All this has been proven.  Ever been around an airport at night??  If you get annoyed at my little blinking headlight you're in for a full blown tantrum at the airport.  Every airplane, tower, water tank, building, smokestack, and runway has BLINKING lights, and usually some "constant" lights as well.  And WHY??  So you CAN'T miss seeing them even at long distances .  Have you ever seen any emergency vehicles with just red or blue "steady" lights??  There is a reason they're blinking.   The blinking blue lights really annoy me.  

 

If you have the choice of possibly either annoying some drivers in oncoming cars, some with their nose in a cell phone, or having a much better chance of being seen by both types, well, it's your choice.  I've made my choice, you make yours.  Either way is legal.  The people who study these types of things go with blinking lights and by law sometimes, too.

 

And I certainly don't mind turning off the Kisan - if I'm following riders that I like.

 

 

[Miguel!]

Every time I see a HL modulator, I'm reminded that 3% of people can have epileptic seizures triggered by flashing lights in the range of 5 - 30 flashes per second. HL modulators flash at 4 flashes per second. I don't think I'm prone to epilepsy but like many people, I avert my eyes whenever I see a HL modulator.

 

Seems like HL modulators were really popular about 10 years ago but I don't recall seeing them nearly as often today.

Miguel

[Michaelr11]

11 hours ago, Miguel! said:

Every time I see a HL modulator, I'm reminded that 3% of people can have epileptic seizures triggered by flashing lights in the range of 5 - 30 flashes per second. HL modulators flash at 4 flashes per second.

 

The federal standard is 240 cycles per minute, +/- 40.  So, 4 cycles per second, which is definitely below the range subject to seizures.  I'm sure that is not by accident.

 

[Lowndes]

In Vegas, baseball, and many other industries, you often hear, "You have to play the percentages."  I don't think I've ever hear anyone say, "You have to play the anecdotes."  But, you could, I guess.

[Red]

"emergency vehicles with just red or blue "steady" lights??  There is a reason they're blinking."  And there you go.  We are not emergency vehicles.  We are vehicles striving to be seen.  When other motorists realize we are 'pretenders', that's where the irritation lies.  What next, all autos have blinking lights because they are seen better?  Blinking lights are reserved, lawfully or not, for emergency situations like the flashers on your auto or emergency vehicles.  When motorcycles usurp this status, we piss people off.  Me included.

[Michaelr11]

7 hours ago, Red said:

realize we are 'pretenders', that's where the irritation lies.

 

We are not pretending to be anything.  If you don't like them, you don't have to use them.  Headlight modulators are LEGAL. They are federally regulated, and legal in all 50 states (also legal in Canada).

 

[JamesW]

On 2/6/2022 at 6:07 PM, Miguel! said:

Every time I see a HL modulator, I'm reminded that 3% of people can have epileptic seizures triggered by flashing lights in the range of 5 - 30 flashes per second. HL modulators flash at 4 flashes per second. I don't think I'm prone to epilepsy but like many people, I avert my eyes whenever I see a HL modulator.

 

Seems like HL modulators were really popular about 10 years ago but I don't recall seeing them nearly as often today.

Miguel

 

You make some very good points that I haven't thought of, very good indeed. Thanks.

[Hosstage]

I find it interesting that motorcycle guys seem to be upset with someone else using a legal device to be seen better on their motorcycle so they don't get creamed by another vehicle. Yes, I find them irritating, but what do I care if someone else is running one? It's not like everybody is using them driving me nuts.

I don't wear a helmet normally, but I am not going to complain about those that do. I do meet a lot of people that will not wear a helmet and argue against them, for whatever made up reason they have. I just say ok.

 

Another thought, if every motorcycle ran modulators, one of two things might happen.

Either people will start to ignore them and motorcycle accidents would go back up, or they would become so irritating that the public would complain and they would be made illegal again.

[JamesW]

I've decided not to remove the modulator but I'm going to stop using it.  I never use my high beam anyway and I never but never ever ride or drive at night so I have no issue always using the low beam like I always have done before the modul

[9Mary7]

7 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

also legal in Canada

Have you asked Trudeau??

[Hank in WV]

Just don't honk your horn when using it...

[Michaelr11]

6 hours ago, JamesW said:

never use my high beam anyway and I never but never ever ride or drive at night so I have no issue always using the low beam like I always have done before the modul

James, if your modulator is from Kisan and hasn’t been modified, then it would conform to the federal safety standards. Part of the standard says that the modulator must include a photo cell that detects the amount of ambient light. When daylight turns to night, the modulator must automatically turn off and resume normal high or low beam operation.  So riding with a modulator should have no impact on your ability to ride at night and use both the high beam and low beam.

 

And, yes Canadian regulations say that modulators are legal. Although it appears that provinces have the ability to write traffic rules that conflict with that. So, good luck with that up north. 😀

[Scott9999]

11 hours ago, Hosstage said:

I don't wear a helmet normally, but I am not going to complain about those that do.

WHAT THE H*LL?? WTF is that crap all about?!  You're gonna run up the insurance rates for all of us.  Not to mention, citizens will have to support your brain dead carcass while it remains on life support, after your next motorcycle accident!

HOW DARE YOU?!!! 

 

Oh ... um ... almost forgot. 😲

/end sarcasm   🤣👍

 

This is a pretty mellow forum.  Kinda surprised by the strong feelings about this. 

Not offended, at all.  I like people to be free to say what's on their minds.  (I'm more offended by those who try to censor or suppress others, but .... I digress, as usual.)

 

Pretty much agree with ya, even though I'm an ATGATT rider.

[Lowndes]

9 hours ago, JamesW said:

I've decided not to remove the modulator but I'm going to stop using it.  I never use my high beam anyway and I never but never ever ride or drive at night so I have no issue always using the low beam like I always have done before the modul

 

James, I'm COMPLETELY OK with you doing just that, NO problem at all.  

[Lowndes]

27 minutes ago, Scott9999 said:

This is a pretty mellow forum.  Kinda surprised by the strong feelings about this. 

Not offended, at all.  I like people to be free to say what's on their minds.  (I'm more offended by those who try to censor or suppress others, but .... I digress, as usual.)

 

Pretty much agree with ya, even though I'm an ATGATT rider.

 

Scott, just go back and read some old "oil" threads if you think this is rough!!  Makes this look like 4th grade valentines.

 

It does seem that some of the ones that don't want to use modulators also don't want anyone else to use them either because they think it might offend someone else. (Hmm, where have I heard similar reasoning recently??)  Never mind that modulators DO save lives, maybe mine.  Let's see: possibly offended vs possibly dead??  Gosh, I dunno.  That's a tough one alright.  

 

I'm an ATGATMATT rider myself, tho.

[JamesW]

4 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

James, if your modulator is from Kisan and hasn’t been modified, then it would conform to the federal safety standards. Part of the standard says that the modulator must include a photo cell that detects the amount of ambient light. When daylight turns to night, the modulator must automatically turn off and resume normal high or low beam operation.  So riding with a modulator should have no impact on your ability to ride at night and use both the high beam and low beam.

 

And, yes Canadian regulations say that modulators are legal. Although it appears that provinces have the ability to write traffic rules that conflict with that. So, good luck with that up north. 😀

 

Yes, my modulator is from Kisan but I decided not to bother with the photo cell.  Don't remember why but I don't miss it guess because I don't ride after the sun sets.  

 

The motoring public around where I live have become increasingly militant in recent years with a super big emphasis on aggressive driving.  The summer tourists mainly from that state of mind called CA are, imo, the main problem.  For years I've prayed for the big one as in earthquake to occur and make the good folk in Arizona proud owners of beachfront property.  We would all be better off, just sayin.....  I'll shut up now.

[Scott9999]

3 hours ago, Lowndes said:

 

Scott, just go back and read some old "oil" threads if you think this is rough!!  Makes this look like 4th grade valentines.

 

 

Oil thread?  Who the hell brought up politics?  Nothing worse than a thread about politicians trying to ban hair oil.  🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Lowndes]

6 hours ago, JamesW said:

 

Yes, my modulator is from Kisan but I decided not to bother with the photo cell.  Don't remember why but I don't miss it guess because I don't ride after the sun sets.  

 

 

James,

 

Just to be clear, removing or just hiding the photo sensor will turn OFF the modulator.  It's purpose is to turn ON the modulator during daylight and turn it OFF in low light, after sundown or in a tunnel.  On one of my bikes I mounted the sensor below the front fairing facing forward and found that oncoming car headlights, fairly close and depending on the type and brightness of the bulb, will deactivate the modulator.  Even a tiny keychain LED held up to the sensor will activate the modulator at night.  On another bike the sensor is facing up just in front of the key switch and if the little key fob flops forward it will shade the sensor enough to deactivate the modulator and make all the anti-flashers deliriously happy if only for a second or two.

[szurszewski]

2 hours ago, Lowndes said:

James,

 

Just to be clear, removing or just hiding the photo sensor will turn OFF the modulator.

I’m willing to bet a dollar (heck, a quart of oil!) that @JamesWhas enough electrical experience to know this and know how to remove the sensor and still run the modulator as he has described (when the switch is set to high beam). 

[Lowndes]

James, 

 

Sorry if I came across insulting, I didn't mean to.  My apologies.

 

Lowndes

[JamesW]

4 hours ago, szurszewski said:

I’m willing to bet a dollar (heck, a quart of oil!) that @JamesWhas enough electrical experience to know this and know how to remove the sensor and still run the modulator as he has described (when the switch is set to high beam). 

 

lol..lol.. You would for sure win the bet.  I don't remember how I disabled the sensor as it's been a few years since I installed the Kisan modulator but that's what I did.  Seems I remember not liking my options of where to mount the light sensor and I couldn't see why I would ever get any use out of it anyway.  I'll look around and see if I even still have the sensor, bet I do.  

 

Oh, I found a pair of high intensity LED lights on Amazon for about $15.50 that are intended for use on an off road vehicle like a Jeep that I mounted on the front tip over bars on my FJR that absolutely get oncoming drivers attention and I prefer them to the modulator but I can't figure out a good mount for use on the BMW that wouldn't detract from the bikes lovely and classic appearance.  If you enlarge the little picture icon on my post you can see the LED lamps on the front tip over bars.  As a side note I've never dropped the FJR and I can't see how I've avoided a drop but I have knock on wood.

[szurszewski]

2 hours ago, JamesW said:

I can't figure out a good mount for use on the BMW that wouldn't detract from the bikes lovely and classic appearance.

 

Walmart.com has you covered…

[Scott9999]

1 hour ago, szurszewski said:

 

Walmart.com has you covered…

 

Ya had me going there.  At first, I said "Whoaaaa, I gotta look into this".  When I entered "R1200RT Lights", the same enterprising vendor listed the SAME (very cheap) universal light set.  I've used Hella lights before, and they just weren't that much of an improvement.   Maybe a nice cosmetic addition, but a LIGHTING addition?   Hmm, not so much.  (Scan the lengthy advertisement page for the word "lumens", and you'll figure out that you're not going to get much light out of these unrated lamps.)

 

But, it was a nice try.  👍🍻

 

Edit:   Now, this one might be worth a closer look.  The lighting kit includes under mirror brackets.  Brackets alone for Denali or Cyclops are more than this light set.  But, I expect that you kinda get what you pay for, too. (Opps, the "BMR mounts are NOT included" ... .gotta read the fine print.  I haven't found the BMR mounts the ad refers to, and he has no reference.)  Well, anyhow, here's the ad.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/BMW-R1200RT-6000K-LED-Auxiliary-Lamp-Light-Kit/744880086

[Miguel!]

Scott, I looked at a lot of aftermarket running lights. I eventually settled on the Clearwater Darla. It is small, easily mounted to the front fender bolt and accommodates yellow lenses which make a HUGE diff in a sea of white car LED lights. Downside is they are expensive; but cheaper than medical and repair bills😎. You might be able to find them used on eBay and MC forums. I have a dimmer set up but I don't think it necessary if you only ride during the daylight hours (I don't ride after dark either). Just wire them on high and leave 'em there. No need for a dimmer or on/off switch. 

 

There is a trick to mounting them on the fender bolt. Let me know if you want details on that. 

Miguel

[Calugo]

I've never had an interest in a headlight modulator because my fear would be someone in a cage mistaking it for someone clicking their high beams on and off and subsequently turning in front of you causing an accident. I've been riding for almost 20 years and have only seen 2 or 3 bikes equipped with headlight modulators so in my neck of the woods it's not popular. I think it has the potential to cause more problems than it solves and you'd be better off buying LED's and auxiliary lights if you want traffic coming from the opposite direction to see you.

[Beech]

Modulators are old school you guys are showing your age, worked well for bikes with filament bulbs of the old days. New lights are visible. One of the guys in the group had one and we put some tape on his daylight sensor when he was not looking so it caused not trouble. And they do irritate drivers. Get an LED driving light if you must.