How much play in rear drive is too much?

[CraigTD]

I am fortunate enough to have a 2001 R1100S. I am unfortunate enough to have carpal tunnel issues that cause my hands to go numb pretty quickly when riding it. Rather than get corrective surgery, I want to get an RT to take the weight off my wrists.  

 

I looked at a 2001 RT, which I understand is pretty late in the model run. It has just over 36,000 miles on it. It's in reasonably good shape with stainless steel brake lines and fog lights. All the bags, manuals, a Clymer manual, and even some maintenance parts.  THe current owner had a new battery installed when he bought it earlier this year. Unfortunately, there are no maintenance records that made their way from the prior owner to the current owner. The current owner is an adult and there are no signs of abuse, but he admits to being mechanically challenged. I'm not afraid of doing the maintenance that the bike will need. In fact, I gravitate toward these bikes because the maintenance is pretty straightforward. I am concerned, however, about the final drive. 

 

When looking the bike over with the bike on the center stand, I did the 9/3 and 12/6 grab and twist check. There is definitely some play. Maybe 1/16 to 1/8 inch on both axises. Is this a sign of impending failure or just a need for bearing preload adjustment? If it is a sign of impending failure, how much would that cost to repair?

 

The owner is asking $3,300 for it, which is a little below what Kelly considers average retail for this vintage. I want some idea about what repair might be needed and what it may cost to use in negotiations. On the other hand, if this is a major calamity waiting to happen, I'd like to know if I should pass on this sample keep looking.

 

Thanks in advance.

-Craig

 

[dirtrider]

14 minutes ago, CraigTD said:

I am fortunate enough to have a 2001 R1100S. I am unfortunate enough to have carpal tunnel issues that cause my hands to go numb pretty quickly when riding it. Rather than get corrective surgery, I want to get an RT to take the weight off my wrists.  

 

I looked at a 2001 RT, which I understand is pretty late in the model run. It has just over 36,000 miles on it. It's in reasonably good shape with stainless steel brake lines and fog lights. All the bags, manuals, a Clymer manual, and even some maintenance parts.  THe current owner had a new battery installed when he bought it earlier this year. Unfortunately, there are no maintenance records that made their way from the prior owner to the current owner. The current owner is an adult and there are no signs of abuse, but he admits to being mechanically challenged. I'm not afraid of doing the maintenance that the bike will need. In fact, I gravitate toward these bikes because the maintenance is pretty straightforward. I am concerned, however, about the final drive. 

 

When looking the bike over with the bike on the center stand, I did the 9/3 and 12/6 grab and twist check. There is definitely some play. Maybe 1/16 to 1/8 inch on both axises. Is this a sign of impending failure or just a need for bearing preload adjustment? If it is a sign of impending failure, how much would that cost to repair?

 

The owner is asking $3,300 for it, which is a little below what Kelly considers average retail for this vintage. I want some idea about what repair might be needed and what it may cost to use in negotiations. On the other hand, if this is a major calamity waiting to happen, I'd like to know if I should pass on this sample keep looking.

 

Thanks in advance.

-Craig

 

Morning  Craig

 

It depends a LOT on where the movement is. If all in the rear wheel crown bearing then don't want any movement (or at least very/very little).

 

If the movement (or most anyhow) is in the swing arm pivot bearings then not a real big deal as those can be replaced by you or in a lot of cases just snugged up to have no play.

 

When you grab the rear wheel at 9/3 and 12/6 you need to see if the wheel is moving in relation to the final drive housing (crown bearing movement) or if the entire final drive housing is moving in relation to the swing arm (swing arm bearings).  See if the rear brake rotor is moving in relation to the caliper bracket.

 

If the rear brake caliper is not easily (freely) floating then sometimes having someone step hard on the rear brake pedal will eliminate some of the crown bearing movement so you can sort of use that to help determine is the play is crown bearing or swing arm bearing.

[CraigTD]

Thank you, dirtrider-

 

Current owner had a safety check done by Max's BMW in Manchester, CT when he bought the bike. He claims he hasn't ridden much since, which is why he's selling. I'm hoping I can get a copy of what they reported to him to see if it sheds any light.

 

How can you tell whether the "slop" is from the swing arm pivot or from the crown bearing? I looked for videos on the topic and found nothing. All kinds of stuff about bigger jobs, but nothing on this detail.

-Craig

[dirtrider]

9 minutes ago, CraigTD said:

Thank you, dirtrider-

 

Current owner had a safety check done by Max's BMW in Manchester, CT when he bought the bike. He claims he hasn't ridden much since, which is why he's selling. I'm hoping I can get a copy of what they reported to him to see if it sheds any light.

 

How can you tell whether the "slop" is from the swing arm pivot or from the crown bearing? I looked for videos on the topic and found nothing. All kinds of stuff about bigger jobs, but nothing on this detail.

-Craig

Morning  Craig

 

You sort of have to use your hands or fingers between the brake rotor & something solid on the final drive housing to feel for movement. See the above post for using the rear brake pedal (not totally  reliable but will usually change the play if in the crown bearing.

 

Otherwise a dial indicator on the final drive housing to the wheel rim. 

 

As a rule (but not totally definitive) if you get more play when holding the wheel at 12/6 & less when holding the wheel at  9/3 then that usually points to swing arm bearings more than crown bearing. 

 

If you know any mechanically knowledgeable BMW 1100/1150 boxer riders then take one along with you as THAT is probably your best bet at defining where the movement is.

 

Or, at least take someone with you to move the rear wheel as that way they can move the wheel while you feel around for where the movement is coming from.   

[CraigTD]

Again, thank you.

If I can't get the daler report or find a local guru, I may just run it back to the dealer for their input.

The bike is nice and pretty close, but I want to ride it more than I want to wrench on it.

 

 

[dirtrider]

15 minutes ago, CraigTD said:

Again, thank you.

If I can't get the daler report or find a local guru, I may just run it back to the dealer for their input.

The bike is nice and pretty close, but I want to ride it more than I want to wrench on it.

 

 

Morning  Craig

 

Another thing to consider is; if you ONLY want, or need, a handlebar position change then you can actually do that on your 1100S with a little creativity. 

 

Personally I like the 1100S bars in the stock position but some riders don't & have moved their bars up higher.

 

If you think that you might like to try this let us know as I think we have a couple of  current 1100S riders that post here often & have moved their bars up top. 

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, CraigTD said:

Again, thank you.

If I can't get the daler report or find a local guru, I may just run it back to the dealer for their input.

The bike is nice and pretty close, but I want to ride it more than I want to wrench on it.

 

 

Morning  Craig

 

If you really like that bike then get a quote from a local BMW repair shop on how much $$$  to install a new final drive crown bearing & seal then reduce your offer to the seller by that amount (or split the difference). 

 

A LOT of 1100 boxer bikes have failed a crown bearing & the motorcycle has lived full life after a new bearing install so if the movement is in the crown bearing just factor that into your offer to the seller. 

[strataj]

That's an expensive job and not all dealers do a good job of repairing.  Most often this is do to the final drive not shimmed correctly at the factory.  If Tom Cutter is still doing repairs he is the person I'd chose http://www.rubberchickenracinggarage.com/  

[Jim Moore]

DR is the expert, but based on my years of riding these bikes I'll say the R1150 series is prone to final drive issues. The R1100, not so much. And they practically give them away on EBay. I say BUY!  

[JamesW]

1 hour ago, Jim Moore said:

DR is the expert, but based on my years of riding these bikes I'll say the R1150 series is prone to final drive issues. The R1100, not so much. And they practically give them away on EBay. I say BUY!  

 

That's the truth.  I would much prefer an 1100 to an 1150 any day after owning an '04 1150 and now own a 1100RS.  I bought a pair of handlebar set backs with a one inch rise from Bob's BMW a few years ago and they're great no more arm or rest discomfort. 

[Lowndes]

4 hours ago, CraigTD said:

Again, thank you.

If I can't get the daler report or find a local guru, I may just run it back to the dealer for their input.

The bike is nice and pretty close, but I want to ride it more than I want to wrench on it.

 

 

 Craig,

 

One of our fellow riders, Taylor1, developed a FD problem at FART up in Sparta, NC.  I thought he posted a followup with his solution to his FD but I can't find it.  You might want to PM him and find out what he ended up doing.

 

 

[taylor1]

Greetings CraigTD    First I would say is that any advise that D.R .gives you , will be as good as it gets. My F.D. crapped out and it was easy to diagnose as there were chunks of metal in the F.D. oil. I bought a used  replacement and did the work myself. Very easy , and didn't take much time. At the same time , I replaced the pivot bearings with new bushings that Boxflyer gave me. Also a very easy install. I guess though first things first and do the checks D,R. posted and find out exactly what the problem is. If you have any questions for me , feel free to send me a PM   Good Luck

[CraigTD]

Thank you all for the insights and support. 
I’m going to get an idea of the costs involved and try to use them to negotiate the price down. 
If I’m successful, I’ll circle back and start bugging everyone about the repair project lined up for the winter.