R1250RS factory repair manual needed WTB

[Motorhead1977]

I need a BMW factory repair manual (DVD version) for my 2020 R1250RS. These are no longer available from BMW. (I was informed by my dealership today that BMW have discontinued all their DVD manuals) I'm happy to pay well for it. Original list price was approximately $112.00. Please message me. Thank you.

[BMW_Ken]

I was told the same thing from Sierra BMW and Max BMW when trying to purchase a repair dvd for my 2020 R1250RT.

 

What are we supposed to do?

[lkraus]

I think BMW was the originator of the heated-seats-by-subscription option.  I suspect access to a web based service manual will eventually be the same.

 

Personally, the Against pan on my decision balance of reasons for buying a new R1250RT just bottomed out.

 

[wbw6cos]

Sorry to read about this.  I have read about Ken's plight in trying to get one for his RT.  I told him that I ordered mine through Max before realizing they were no longer offered.  I managed to buy a service DVD for the RT before they were discontinued from BMW.

 

With that in mind, it makes it seem more like BMW wants their owners to visit dealer shops for repairs/maintnenance.  I take it that the BMW techs doing service have access to the service manual online.

 

Wondering if the DVD is capable of being c****d if one were to borrow it.    (I am not going there, but just asking if it were possible - I know about © issues and do not wish to post anything that would violate any forum rules and such as the like.)

Cheers,

[Motorhead1977]

Perhaps some kind soles would be willing to print the pages needed for a fee to compensate for the time and materials??

As a hypothetical I'd be happy to explore if that c#@*&d thing was even possible if I had access to the 1250 RS DVD. I have one for the 1200RT LC to experiment with but unsure if they have the same format etc.

[Shelterwoods]

I have the DVD, but have not tried to print or pdf any pages yet. On a trip now, but will try later.

 

I have read about this same kind of thing with John Deere farm equipment; there is a right-to-repair movement getting started because of this kind of thing. Owners of JD equipment have to wait until JD service is available, which can cause problems in the midst of harvest season.

 

Del

[Shelterwoods]

Has this been the case before I bought mine, I may not have considered it.

 

Del

[Motorhead1977]

Del, thank you. That's most generous of you. I didn't learn about the discontinued repair manuals until after my purchase and have to agree, it would have had some impact on my decision. Looking forward to hearing from you when you're back home.

 

Tom

[Rinkydink]

It will be interesting how this turns out.
 

 

 Linky

[60Aviator]

I didn't appreciate the January edition of ON Magazine that covered this and basically said for us to suck it up and deal with it? I guess they are more worried about BMW than the owners? 

[Motorhead1977]

34 minutes ago, 60Aviator said:

I didn't appreciate the January edition of ON Magazine that covered this and basically said for us to suck it up and deal with it? I guess they are more worried about BMW than the owners? 

I'm with you. I posted this at another BMW site and I feel the very last sentence is most important.

The article in ON says BMW said it's because the bikes have become so complicated. Well would someone please tell me where between 2018 and 2021 BMW motorcycles made this sudden quantum leap? I say this since I was able in 2018 to buy a BMW factory repair manual for my 2018 RT and also buy one in 2020 for my 2020 1250RS but in 2021 became unable to buy one for that very same bike. So hey, BMW, I'll call you out.... your stated reason is PURE BULL S**T. It's a money grab and nothing else. In my opinion it's the complete lack of integrity by BMW telling outright lies that concerns me.

[Cap]

On 9/4/2021 at 6:02 PM, Motorhead1977 said:

…willing to print the pages needed …

Which pages do you need?  I have a DVD for a 1250.  I printed out a set of pages for my own use that document the entire process for adjusting the cam timing (and checking/adjusting the valves).  I could scan that to a pdf and post it here.

 

Even that narrow task is many pages.  The manual is enormous, and printing the entire thing is a non starter.  Moreover, the manual is non-linear — rather it is a hyper-linked document — so the process of printing anything other than a short, specific procedure, will be confusing.

 

But if you do need some specific pages, I might be able to help.  For example, when I was changing out the headlight bulbs on my RT, I used the manual extensively to locate all the fasteners and to list the sequence of steps.

 

Cap

[Motorhead1977]

Cap, thanks for the offer. I'm going to be installing a set of Clearwater Darlas with the CANBUS adapter shortly so I may need info once I look at everything I'll need access to. I can PM you once I've better more specific information. 👍

[lkchris]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:23 PM, 60Aviator said:

I didn't appreciate the January edition of ON Magazine that covered this and basically said for us to suck it up and deal with it? I guess they are more worried about BMW than the owners? 

It's a pretty poor magazine ...

 

https://www.bmwtis.com/#/login

[Motorhead1977]

12 minutes ago, lkchris said:

It's a pretty poor magazine ...

 

https://www.bmwtis.com/#/login

Wow, only $2,500 for 1 year of access to the repair manual. Such a deal. Fargin Bastages.

I sent the below to the editor today regarding an article in the Feb 22 issue. We'll see if they have the stones to print it.

"Wes Fleming made what I prefer to think of as a faux pas in "Maintaining a Safe Motorcycle" in ON Feb 2022.  The recommendation ...."Of course, you would remedy any deficiencies you discover, checking your owner's and/or service manuals (emphasis added) for proper procedures, torque values and if any of the bolts you need to remove are single use (such as brake disc mounting bolts)."   Would that such checking was possible!  Since BMW have decided that for now such service manuals are unavailable to us mere mortals and that in the future they, supposedly will require some additional expenditures by we who already laid out a very tidy sum to own one of their bikes, for the privilege  of accessing repair procedures and data I would like some insight from the cognoscenti on how exactly one is supposed to accomplish the recommended method of maintaining a safe motorcycle.  To say BMW have greatly disappointed me is an understatement.  I guess they have now fully adopted the motto: profit uber alles ("profit above all").  At least BMW have finally and clearly let we owners know precisely where we stand."

Thomas Nicotera #172925

Albany, NY.

[Rinkydink]

Even if I had the money, there is not enough dealers close enough to me. 

[JamesW]

And this is one of the reasons I would never invest in a new BMW.  In my view they just are no longer worth it.  The cost of ownership is just over the top, imo.  OK, so they have great rider ergonomics so what?  Just make a few more rest stops on your older uncomplicated machine and enjoy the day. Oh, and while you're at it laugh all the way to the bank.

[TracerBullet]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:08 PM, Motorhead1977 said:

Wow, only $2,500 for 1 year of access to the repair manual. Such a deal. Fargin Bastages.

I sent the below to the editor today regarding an article in the Feb 22 issue. We'll see if they have the stones to print it.

"Wes Fleming made what I prefer to think of as a faux pas in "Maintaining a Safe Motorcycle" in ON Feb 2022.  The recommendation ...."Of course, you would remedy any deficiencies you discover, checking your owner's and/or service manuals (emphasis added) for proper procedures, torque values and if any of the bolts you need to remove are single use (such as brake disc mounting bolts)."   Would that such checking was possible!  Since BMW have decided that for now such service manuals are unavailable to us mere mortals and that in the future they, supposedly will require some additional expenditures by we who already laid out a very tidy sum to own one of their bikes, for the privilege  of accessing repair procedures and data I would like some insight from the cognoscenti on how exactly one is supposed to accomplish the recommended method of maintaining a safe motorcycle.  To say BMW have greatly disappointed me is an understatement.  I guess they have now fully adopted the motto: profit uber alles ("profit above all").  At least BMW have finally and clearly let we owners know precisely where we stand."

Thomas Nicotera #172925

Albany, NY.

All the manufacturers are going down this road. It’s been occurring in cars for a while hence the “ right to repair” movement. 

[alexp]

BMW Cars are designed to be serviced at the Dealer only.  There are special tools and computers that only the Dealer has it. My local Police has about 80 BMW Bikes and they dont have a computer in their shop. It must be sent to the Dealer.  This is the new world we live now and others are following the same path.  I was a mechanic for Mercedes Benz in the 80's and we started to notice this trend starting back then. Mercedes was like VW's, anyone could work on them, not BMWs. I'm very happy with my 21 and don't regret the upgrade. 

[Camhead64]

Massachusetts has passed right to repair law on the books but seems they are not going to bring enforcement until the federal law suit from OEMs is settled.  I think the BMW argument of "to complex" is absolute BS, I've talked to some of their tech's, some are very good, others not so much. I like the modern bikes, learning the new diagnostic procedures for canbus control has been fascinating and fun, will give me something to do as I get older.

 

I'm good with a subscription service with a reasonable fee for a reasonable time period, lots of benefits to subscription data in that revisions can be done across the board much better than manual revision. GM has this already, 3 days subscription to OEM for 20 bucks, not exactly cheap, but in that time you can print common data and log in and pay when you've got a more complex issue. 

 

 

[RadioFlyer]

On 2/8/2022 at 4:51 PM, lkchris said:

It's a pretty poor magazine ...

 

https://www.bmwtis.com/#/login

 

There was an extensive thread on this on the BMW MOA Facebook page. At first the MOA President said that the service information was available and then he had to backtrack saying that motorcycles are not supported by either the BMW TIS or AIRS systems. He also said that all maintenance is covered in the Rider's Manual but that was shot down as well. On the MOA Forum he said that the TIS rate of $30/day "isn’t necessarily cost prohibitive for the majority of our members is a safe assumption" but then when someone commented on the Facebook post that the TIS prices are a joke the President agreed.

[RadioFlyer]

On 1/17/2022 at 3:23 PM, 60Aviator said:

I didn't appreciate the January edition of ON Magazine that covered this and basically said for us to suck it up and deal with it? I guess they are more worried about BMW than the owners? 

 

The MOA does not give any visibility to the nature of the BMW Clubs International Council of which it is a member. The Council was co-ounded by a BMW employee, receives annual funding from BMW and has BMW employees as voting members. The Council has guidelines to which the MOA adheres. The guidelines direct the clubs to act as part of BMW's public relations apparatus. I think that your question hiots the nail on the head.

[RadioFlyer]

This letter appeared in the September issue of ON. The MOA mission statement includes "sharing out passion for motorcycles". For the author of the letter, and for many of us, that passion includes working on our bikes but the MOA is not willing to help preserve that aspect of ownership.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by RadioFlyer
spelling

[Motorhead1977]

Thanks #Radioflyer. I had forgotten about that letter. While I love my RS I'll not be buying anything BMW again (nor any other motorcycle brand) unless the FSM is available for me to purchase as a single unit and NOT as a per use subscription. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Motorhead1977
clarification

[randy]

while I understand your concerns, I will propose another view

while a Factory Service Manual (FSM) is nice, one given at time of purchase is very simply 1990's technology.  Basically, the CD is 10% outdated the day you bike your bike. 

simple fact is, it is a HUGE liability/cost.  If a manufacture gives you a FSM, then somehow, they have to give you updates.  I.e. either a new CD (not practical) or PDF additions.

But if they go with a subscription (which is the future) then they just update their subscription, and ALL users have access to the latest information.
If you are a windows user (Apple is way ahead on this) then you have already seen the benefits of subscription-based applications.  I use/teach excel, MS access and PowerBI.  10 years ago I had to always wonder if my "version" was the same as the user I was trying to help.  Now with subscription-based technology, we are all on the same version.

 

Now if the future holds NO FSM then we only have to look at our legal system.  How many times has a user (remember the old 1100rt melted plastics) had an FSM, did not read it fully, then created a problem (melted plastics) then some lawyer did a class action lawsuit.  It said right in the manual NO idling.  But old carb riders would still idle those bikes for 10 minutes. 

 

Yes, I do my own work (mostly) and I have my own tire changer and balancer.  So, I am a heavy user of manuals.  But in this day of subscription-based technology, YouTube video's, online chat groups, Climer manuals, and probably some items I am forgetting, subscription-based content is really the better solution

 

just my 0.02

[Geekmaster]

Where's the site for BMW Motorcycle info?  If you click to see the site features at https://www.bmwtis.com/#/login, you'll see the notice that it doesn't contain any motorcycle information:

 

[RadioFlyer]

Exactly there is no subscription-based or any other kind of service information available to owners or independent techs for BMW motorcycles. Meanwhile you can still get manuals for Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, KTM....

 

I don't believe that this is a liability issue as it is easy to have a disclaimer. The timing coincides with BMW's introduction of extended warranties and pay-up-front service packages. This is no coincidence. This is a calculated move by BMW.

[RadioFlyer]

Have you tried the online AI conversationalist ChatGPT?

 

I asked it "Should BMW motorcycle owners have service manuals?" Here is the response (apparently ChatGPT AI is more intelligent that BMW since the latter discontinued the provision of service manuals):

 

"Yes, it is always a good idea for motorcycle owners to have a service manual for their bike. A service manual provides detailed instructions on how to properly maintain and service your motorcycle, and can be an invaluable resource if you need to perform repairs yourself. It is especially important for BMW motorcycle owners to have a service manual, as BMW motorcycles are known for their complex and high-performance engineering. Having a service manual can help you understand the inner workings of your motorcycle and ensure that it continues to run smoothly and reliably."

[Quasimoto]

In this day and age of commerce and enterprising people seeing a market and filling it, EBAY IS YOUR FRIEND!! My USB kopee was $30 baby....

[Motorhead1977]

Agreed 👍. I was able to get one from an "acquaintance" in Italy. He only had the 1200 RS one but most of what I needed is in that version. Were you able to find a 1250 RS version? Please PM me with the source info if that's what you have. TIA

[c10]

I have found a download avaible on ebay motors for the  R 1250 RS 2019 to current . $32 usd  .  Has anyone purchased one like this ? 

 

 

 

 

 

MODERATOR COMMENT:  the link has been removed as it has been reported as pirated BMW COPYRIGHT material