Problem shifting into 2nd gear

[Audi403]

Hey guys, I just picked this bike up two weeks ago, it's a 2019 R1250RT. I seem to be having an issue when manually shifting from 1st to 2nd gear using the clutch. When I let out the clutch and roll on the throttle it hesitates for a second or so and then aggressively accelerates. It doesn't do it all the time, it does it when I'm riding aggressively. It does not do it in any other gear, I can shift as hard and fast as I'm capable with all other gears and have no issues whatsoever. If I'm really easy on/off the clutch and throttle it shifts fine from 1st to 2nd.

 

It doesn't do it while using the quick shifter. However, the quick shift isn't very smooth from first to second so I'd prefer to manually clutch the first shift. But it is really unpredictable and hard to understand why this is happening. Like I mentioned, I'll shift into second and roll on the throttle and the power feels limited initially but then all of a sudden it just launches full throttle into second. 

 

I just started noticing this yesterday. Put on a few hundred km today and it's still doing it. Has anyone heard of this or know what might be going on? This is my 5th motorcycle, first BMW, 2nd bike with a quick shifter, I've never experienced anything like this before.

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, Audi403 said:

Hey guys, I just picked this bike up two weeks ago, it's a 2019 R1250RT. I seem to be having an issue when manually shifting from 1st to 2nd gear using the clutch. When I let out the clutch and roll on the throttle it hesitates for a second or so and then aggressively accelerates. It doesn't do it all the time, it does it when I'm riding aggressively. It does not do it in any other gear, I can shift as hard and fast as I'm capable with all other gears and have no issues whatsoever. If I'm really easy on/off the clutch and throttle it shifts fine from 1st to 2nd.

 

It doesn't do it while using the quick shifter. However, the quick shift isn't very smooth from first to second so I'd prefer to manually clutch the first shift. But it is really unpredictable and hard to understand why this is happening. Like I mentioned, I'll shift into second and roll on the throttle and the power feels limited initially but then all of a sudden it just launches full throttle into second. 

 

I just started noticing this yesterday. Put on a few hundred km today and it's still doing it. Has anyone heard of this or know what might be going on? This is my 5th motorcycle, first BMW, 2nd bike with a quick shifter, I've never experienced anything like this before.

Morning Audi403

 

Is it an engine type hesitation or a drivetrain type hesitation?

 

If it is the engine power momentarily flattening out then possibly your traction control kicking in. 

 

Try different ride modes to see if that effects your hesitation problem.

[Skywagon]

Turn off ASC  might be traction control kicking in. Mine does that on 1-2

[Audi403]

10 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Audi403

 

Is it an engine type hesitation or a drivetrain type hesitation?

 

If it is the engine power momentarily flattening out then possibly your traction control kicking in. 

 

Try different ride modes to see if that effects your hesitation problem.

Yeah it's the engine power momentarily flattening like you mentioned. I think it has happened in both Dynamic and Road, for sure it was doing it in Road. I'll try dynamic again and also turning off traction completely. 

 

7 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Turn off ASC  might be traction control kicking in. Mine does that on 1-2

Yeah I think you're right, the thought crossed my mind but I was quick to think something else was wrong and forget about that possibility. I'll try ASC off next time I ride. Thanks!

[Skywagon]

I hope that is your issue and not something serious...if serious DR will solve...  One point..be careful in low gears with ASC off.  If you hammer it you will most definitely raise the front wheel in 1st and 2nd....1st might catch you off guard.

[Audi403]

4 hours ago, Skywagon said:

I hope that is your issue and not something serious...if serious DR will solve...  One point..be careful in low gears with ASC off.  If you hammer it you will most definitely raise the front wheel in 1st and 2nd....1st might catch you off guard.

Yeah I hope so too. I've had the front wheel off the ground in 1st gear already haha. It comes up pretty easily, but I'll be a bit more cautious with ASC off. Thx for the heads up!

[Audi403]

So it definitely does it in both dynamic and road. I noticed it did it twice on my ride tonight and its not like I was really hammering it into second gear. I never found any ATC settings but I found DTC (Dynamics Traction Control if I remember correctly). I'll try with that off, but I shouldn't have to disable my traction control to shift into second without this hiccup in power. Hopefully this can be sorted out easily enough...

[Audi403]

Alright, update: Rode with DTC off and tried it again about 7 or 8 times. I accelerated through first about midway through the rpm range and shifted quick (manually) into second and rolled right on the throttle. No loss of power, hiccups, hesitation, whatever you want to call it. Seems to shift how I'd like it too. 

 

It's a shame I can't do this in dynamic mode with DTC turned on. It's not like I'm doing wheelies when I let the clutch out into second. I'm not shifting at the top of 1st gear. I'd understand this intervention in "Road" mode but it seems pretty crazy to do that in "Dynamic". 

 

My Ducati Supersport never had such crazy intervention 🤔

[Audi403]

Ahh, I think there is definitely something wrong. This morning riding out of my neighborhood it did it again. I was not riding hard, there’s no way it could have been traction control. I was in road mode but it does it in dynamic too. Shifted into second probably around 4000rpm and gently rolled the throttle on. The power cut for about a second, feels like the throttle gets closed and then opened abruptly when it happens. Guess I need to start the stressful process of bringing it to the dealer and hope they can recreate the problem and not try and blame it on something I’m doing. I’ve had bad luck with bikes lately…

[dirtrider]

3 minutes ago, Audi403 said:

Ahh, I think there is definitely something wrong. This morning riding out of my neighborhood it did it again. I was not riding hard, there’s no way it could have been traction control. I was in road mode but it does it in dynamic too. Shifted into second probably around 4000rpm and gently rolled the throttle on. The power cut for about a second, feels like the throttle gets closed and then opened abruptly when it happens. Guess I need to start the stressful process of bringing it to the dealer and hope they can recreate the problem and not try and blame it on something I’m doing. I’ve had bad luck with bikes lately…

Morning Audi403

 

Possibly just needs a firmware update.  

 

Do get the dealer involved & get your problem on record with BMW.

[Skywagon]

As DR says...check with dealer as may be an issue.  Just remember DTC is set back to on with every key off.  If you didn't turn it back off the next time you started the bike then the default is on.  Mine is ASC  on my panel

 

The BMW Motorrad ASC (Automatic Stability Control) rider assistance system is one of the most popular factory-installed optional accessories. This is because the anti-slip control system by BMW Motorrad limits the amount of engine drive torque transmitted according to road surface conditions and therefore the friction co-efficient.

[Audi403]

Yes thanks guys, I got it booked in. The guy who got me booked in seemed good. He took good notes, hopefully they can recreate the problem. It didn't do it on my ride home today. I know intermittent problems can be hard for dealers to diagnose. Hopefully they can figure it out 🤞

 

I know DTC resets and comes back on every time the ignition is switched off. I'm going to keep experimenting and make sure it's related to the traction control. 

[Audi403]

So I've done some more experimenting, it does it even with traction control (DTC) turned off. It did it three times today. It hadn't done it for a couple days...I started trying a new shift habit, something I learned in riding school about 6 years ago. When I shift up I clutch in, kick the gear lever and hold it in the up position, release clutch and roll on throttle, and then release the shift lever. I thought this fixed the problem but it came back today. The only thing I can think of that has changed is I washed the bike today. I don't pressure wash...just a gentle shower with a sprayer on my garden hose, then hand wash with soap and microfiber, light rinse with the sprayer on the garden hose, then hand dry. It sat for a couple hours to dry off before I took it out for a ride. Felt the power cut out after shifting to second and rolling on the throttle after a few minutes of riding. Then it was good for the remaining 1.5 hours. I stopped somewhere for an hour and when I left it did it again shifting from 1st to 2nd. It only does it when I shift into second. I then tried to recreate it. I shifted first to second probably 10 times with different rates only applying throttle and couldn't recreate the scenario.

 

I'm pretty worried about this. If the dealer can't figure out what's wrong, is BMW good with warranties? Anyone know what will happen if they can't figure it out? 

[Skywagon]

Document all interactions and BMW for me has been good with warranty. Not related to bikes but this could be a clue..

 

My wife bought a new car a couple years back. It’s her car so I really didn’t drive it. Got in it when it was about a year old. Automatic. It shifted and surged like you said. She said always did that and thought that was normal 

 

Took it to the dealer. Changed transmission. No help. Changed coil plug wires and plugs no help. Finally they decided ECU was acting up. They changed the ECU and all was well. The tech told me it wasn’t taking the heat well. He figured it out by placing ice on ECU when it acted up

 

i definitively would not put ice on bike ECU, but if all else fails perhaps the ECU could be acting up

 

I suspect BMW can find and fix it. Take them your video

[Audi403]

5 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Document all interactions and BMW for me has been good with warranty. Not related to bikes but this could be a clue..

 

My wife bought a new car a couple years back. It’s her car so I really didn’t drive it. Got in it when it was about a year old. Automatic. It shifted and surged like you said. She said always did that and thought that was normal 

 

Took it to the dealer. Changed transmission. No help. Changed coil plug wires and plugs no help. Finally they decided ECU was acting up. They changed the ECU and all was well. The tech told me it wasn’t taking the heat well. He figured it out by placing ice on ECU when it acted up

 

i definitively would not put ice on bike ECU, but if all else fails perhaps the ECU could be acting up

 

I suspect BMW can find and fix it. Take them your video

 

Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it. I love the bike I've put 2000km in the last 3 weeks since I bought it. Planning to do some big trips but worried about this issue and owning the bike beyond warranty. If this turns out to be a big deal I may consider purchasing extended warranty. 

[Skywagon]

Since the introduction of the wet heads....2014 and newer for RT's and I believe 2013 for GS's, they have been pretty remarkably trouble free with of course a few outliers.  Pre-2014 there was a lot of chatter here about drive shafts, final drives, HESS, clutch splines, and probably a few I can't think of.  I haven't heard much on the shift cam 1250's so assume they are pretty good too.

 

The worst thing I've heard on a wethead is an alternator going out.  That is a big job, but there have only been a couple that I can recall on this board.  I would get to the BMW dealer as soon as possible.  Look at the ticket they write up to make sure they write up what you are experiencing.  That will be your ticket to having BMW stand behind it.

[Audi403]

57 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

Since the introduction of the wet heads....2014 and newer for RT's and I believe 2013 for GS's, they have been pretty remarkably trouble free with of course a few outliers.  Pre-2014 there was a lot of chatter here about drive shafts, final drives, HESS, clutch splines, and probably a few I can't think of.  I haven't heard much on the shift cam 1250's so assume they are pretty good too.

 

The worst thing I've heard on a wethead is an alternator going out.  That is a big job, but there have only been a couple that I can recall on this board.  I would get to the BMW dealer as soon as possible.  Look at the ticket they write up to make sure they write up what you are experiencing.  That will be your ticket to having BMW stand behind it.

 

My appointment is in 9 days, I'll make sure to update this when I hear back. Thanks again 

[Audi403]

Update: got the bike back earlier today. The shop installed the new software which involved flashing the ECU. They also calibrated one of the sensors for the throttle by wire system. I put on a couple hundred km this evening and couldn't duplicate the problem. The updated software and calibrated throttle seems to have made a big difference. Throttle response is much crisper, bike feels awesome. Road mode feels closer to dynamic than it did before. But the biggest thing is my 1st to 2nd shift appears fixed. Fingers crossed it's fixed, I'll update again in a few days!

[Audi403]

1500km now and the problem appears to be gone.

[Audi403]

The problem is back now. Just ran my first tank of gas through after it sat over winter (on a maintainer and with fuel stabilizer in it). I noticed it started happening after about an hour long ride and as my gas light came on. I filled up the tank and it did the hesitation two more times shifting into second as I rode home.

 

I got close to 5000km (trouble free) on the bike since the dealer was able to fix it with the ECU update and throttle calibration. It's really weird that the problem is back now. The throttle was unplugged briefly when I installed my Heli Bar risers. Could that have caused some loss of calibration? I just don't understand how it would only do it from the 1-2 shift.

 

The problem only occurs if I shift with pace into second gear. If I'm really gentle shifting it, it's fine. Happens in all drive modes. Happens with traction disabled/enabled. The feeling is as I let the clutch out and roll on the throttle, it starts to accelerate, then the power completely cuts out, then it kicks back in fairly aggressively.

 

Anyone else heard of pr experienced this? Any ideas? Things I could try? I guess it's back to the dealer. 

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Audi403 said:

The problem is back now. Just ran my first tank of gas through after it sat over winter (on a maintainer and with fuel stabilizer in it). I noticed it started happening after about an hour long ride and as my gas light came on. I filled up the tank and it did the hesitation two more times shifting into second as I rode home.

 

I got close to 5000km (trouble free) on the bike since the dealer was able to fix it with the ECU update and throttle calibration. It's really weird that the problem is back now. The throttle was unplugged briefly when I installed my Heli Bar risers. Could that have caused some loss of calibration? I just don't understand how it would only do it from the 1-2 shift.

 

The problem only occurs if I shift with pace into second gear. If I'm really gentle shifting it, it's fine. Happens in all drive modes. Happens with traction disabled/enabled. The feeling is as I let the clutch out and roll on the throttle, it starts to accelerate, then the power completely cuts out, then it kicks back in fairly aggressively.

 

Anyone else heard of pr experienced this? Any ideas? Things I could try? I guess it's back to the dealer. 

Morning  Audi403

 

The throttle was unplugged briefly when I installed my Heli Bar risers. Could that have caused some loss of calibration?-- That sure is possible. 

 

I just don't understand how it would only do it from the 1-2 shift.-- This is somewhat strange but 1st to 2nd is probably the most critical for traction control intervention after the initial launch.

 

You really need to involve your dealer in this so they have (on record) that this issue keeps re-occurring. 

 

Also, possibly another update is available.  

[Audi403]

Yeah I'll be bringing it to the dealer for sure. Good to hear others opinions and if anyone has experienced this problem themselves. 

[Audi403]

So I didn't end up bringing it to the dealer. Instead I cross posted this on another BMW forum and seem to have found the solution. Two seperate users both suspected it was related to the gear shift assist pro and not fully releasing the pressure off the shift lever after changing gears. One had experienced the same problem. 

 

As I mentioned before my shifting technique seems to differ from most. I learnt this in a riding class about 6 years ago. They taught to clutch in, kick up or down the shift lever and hold it there, release the clutch and roll on the throttle, and then release the shift lever. This worked well for me on my 4 previous bikes and my current Ducati which also has a quick shifter. I'm not sure why the problem temporarily disappeared after the dealer did an ECU update and calibrated the ride by wire last summer. However, this shifting technique just doesn't seem to work with the BMW as it interferes with the gear shift assist pro.

 

I've put a few hundred km on and have changed my shift technique and I can't replicate the problem. I've tried shifting as fast and aggressively as I can from 1-2 and it doesn't stutter anymore. Hopefully this is solved now and this can help the next person who finds this problem. 

[Skywagon]

Good info. I’ll see if I can create the problem on my bike today

[ccsargen]

Audi403, I am having this exact issue on my GS. What shifting technique did you switch to? I am almost due for my 18k service plus the gear shaft recall. I was going to bring it up at this time to the dealer but now I’m questioning that direction. What say you?

[Audi403]

3 minutes ago, ccsargen said:

Audi403, I am having this exact issue on my GS. What shifting technique did you switch to? I am almost due for my 18k service plus the gear shaft recall. I was going to bring it up at this time to the dealer but now I’m questioning that direction. What say you?

Hey, the problem never happens anymore since I changed my shifting technique for this bike. Do not hold the shift lever in the up or down position. Gear shifts just need to be momentary. I simply clutch in, kick the shifter up or down, release the shift lever, then release the clutch. 

 

The trick is to not hold the shifter in the up or down position while releasing the clutch.

[Scott9999]

Hmm, sounds like the "pre-shifting" technique that I learned on the Oilheads, and used successfully on my Hexhead, isn't such a good idea on the Wetheads.  Pre-shifting would tend to keep pressure on the the shift lever past the shift.  Might explain why my shifting was so crappy last year, getting to know the bike. 

 

Will try a traditional shift technique, i.e. blip the clutch lever as I "nick" the shift lever (as I always heard it called), and see if that helps.  (I'd already began using shift assist more, just to avoid fouling up the shifts.)

[9Mary7]

33 minutes ago, Scott9999 said:

Hmm, sounds like the "pre-shifting" technique that I learned on the Oilheads, and used successfully on my Hexhead, isn't such a good idea on the Wetheads.  Pre-shifting would tend to keep pressure on the the shift lever past the shift.  Might explain why my shifting was so crappy last year, getting to know the bike. 

 

Will try a traditional shift technique, i.e. blip the clutch lever as I "nick" the shift lever (as I always heard it called), and see if that helps.  (I'd already began using shift assist more, just to avoid fouling up the shifts.)

Quickshifters eliminate the need to preload the shifter.

[Bernie]

Shifting was the biggest issue I had when I switched from my Hexhead after 182K miles to my WetHead. I had relearn how to shift.

[Audi403]

I do put some slight pressure on the shifter before I clutch in and make the gear shift. It makes it smoother. Only required when shifting manually with the clutch, not quick shifting.

[ccsargen]

Thank you Audi403 and others... I will pay more attention to my shifting and adjust as needed.