Fuel Tank Carnage, R1150RTP

[Deiesse]

I need the advice of some guru's here. >.<

 

I just bought my first BMW - an '02 CHP bike - that supposedly had been sitting in a guy's garage for close to a decade. "Always maintained; ran perfect when parked". Uh-huh.

First thing I checked when I brought it home was the fuel tank... and oh boy did it stink in there. I've never smelled fuel like that. But, without removing all the tupperware, and draining the tank (wasn't an option at that time), the best thing I could do was top the tank off with fresh gas. And then after checking the oil level and replacing both [bloody expensive] batteries, I tried to fire it. No dice, except with SF sprayed in the airbox. So I ordered the Clymer, and while waiting for it to arrive, I scanned through this community, trying to learn about the bike. Specifically, what kind of fuel system I was dealing with (I've owned and ridden many motorcycles, but never any that didn't have carbs), and how to test the functionality of the components.

So, now I've gathered that the fuel pump is a goner. I assumed (incorrectly, it turns out) that it was from me trying to start the bike with that gunk in the tank; and the fuse repeatedly popping every time I turned the ignition On told me rather than trying to reverse the polarity and "blow" the gunk out, I'd better just order a new one... which I did, thank you Beemer Boneyard.

SO HERE'S THE BIG ISSUE: Finally removed the tank. I drained it. I removed the pump/filter assembly, and found... carnage. The fabric screen looked clean enough, but whatever mystery fluid that was sitting inside that tank all those years literally DISSOLVED the insulation off the wires. Ya gotta love bare copper strands shorting-out on each other inside a tank full of gas, while you're trying to start the engine. And then I finally got the assembly removed, and thought maybe I'd better remove the "round plate" near the TOP of the tank ("float tube"?)... annnd it's more of the same.  -_-

Has anyone ever experienced this? I've been wrenching on things for years, and I've never seen ANYTHING strip the insulation clean off wires like that. MY jaw is on the floor... I'm completely open to constructive advice here.

Is it too soon to give-up, and go back to my simple little Japanese Cruiser? [Hey, I'm CERTAINLY no fan of Honda's, but that little bike sat in a garage for TWENTY years, and it's never given me a problem more severe than a loose Choke cable!]

I've been trying to find replacement tank parts, but so far all the Used tanks are bare, no fuel pump ass'y or float tube. And what is that tube even for? I thought the fuel level float was the lever-arm on the pump/filter assy. This bike needs TWO, entirely-different floats?? <banging head on wall>.

I'm completely capable of cutting out the copper spaghetti and soldering-in new wires; I'm just not really comfortable with the idea of electrical wires floating inside the 6.6 gallons of fuel sitting between my legs. Probably safe enough when submerged in gas, but what about when it's been a long stretch of barren highway since the last fill-up, and those wires are "floating" inside 6.6 gallons of FUMES? (O.O)

Folks, I think this is a beautiful piece of machinery, and I thought I was falling in love with it... I was really hoping to take it across Route 66 soon, but I'm starting to feel like I'm never going to have confidence riding it. Am I in over my head?

 

Here's where I stop typing and quit my frettin'. I hope y'all have some sage advice or suggestions for me. Thanks in advance.

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Deiesse said:

I need the advice of some guru's here. >.<

 

I just bought my first BMW - an '02 CHP bike - that supposedly had been sitting in a guy's garage for close to a decade. "Always maintained; ran perfect when parked". Uh-huh.

First thing I checked when I brought it home was the fuel tank... and oh boy did it stink in there. I've never smelled fuel like that. But, without removing all the tupperware, and draining the tank (wasn't an option at that time), the best thing I could do was top the tank off with fresh gas. And then after checking the oil level and replacing both [bloody expensive] batteries, I tried to fire it. No dice, except with SF sprayed in the airbox. So I ordered the Clymer, and while waiting for it to arrive, I scanned through this community, trying to learn about the bike. Specifically, what kind of fuel system I was dealing with (I've owned and ridden many motorcycles, but never any that didn't have carbs), and how to test the functionality of the components.

So, now I've gathered that the fuel pump is a goner. I assumed (incorrectly, it turns out) that it was from me trying to start the bike with that gunk in the tank; and the fuse repeatedly popping every time I turned the ignition On told me rather than trying to reverse the polarity and "blow" the gunk out, I'd better just order a new one... which I did, thank you Beemer Boneyard.

SO HERE'S THE BIG ISSUE: Finally removed the tank. I drained it. I removed the pump/filter assembly, and found... carnage. The fabric screen looked clean enough, but whatever mystery fluid that was sitting inside that tank all those years literally DISSOLVED the insulation off the wires. Ya gotta love bare copper strands shorting-out on each other inside a tank full of gas, while you're trying to start the engine. And then I finally got the assembly removed, and thought maybe I'd better remove the "round plate" near the TOP of the tank ("float tube"?)... annnd it's more of the same.  -_-

Has anyone ever experienced this? I've been wrenching on things for years, and I've never seen ANYTHING strip the insulation clean off wires like that. MY jaw is on the floor... I'm completely open to constructive advice here.

Is it too soon to give-up, and go back to my simple little Japanese Cruiser? [Hey, I'm CERTAINLY no fan of Honda's, but that little bike sat in a garage for TWENTY years, and it's never given me a problem more severe than a loose Choke cable!]

I've been trying to find replacement tank parts, but so far all the Used tanks are bare, no fuel pump ass'y or float tube. And what is that tube even for? I thought the fuel level float was the lever-arm on the pump/filter assy. This bike needs TWO, entirely-different floats?? <banging head on wall>.

I'm completely capable of cutting out the copper spaghetti and soldering-in new wires; I'm just not really comfortable with the idea of electrical wires floating inside the 6.6 gallons of fuel sitting between my legs. Probably safe enough when submerged in gas, but what about when it's been a long stretch of barren highway since the last fill-up, and those wires are "floating" inside 6.6 gallons of FUMES? (O.O)

Folks, I think this is a beautiful piece of machinery, and I thought I was falling in love with it... I was really hoping to take it across Route 66 soon, but I'm starting to feel like I'm never going to have confidence riding it. Am I in over my head?

 

Here's where I stop typing and quit my frettin'. I hope y'all have some sage advice or suggestions for me. Thanks in advance.

Morning   Deiesse

 

Yes, I have seen a number of gunked up fuel systems like you have now. E-10 gasoline is a nasty fuel to store with as it turns sour in a hurry. 

 

Those 2 in-tank fuel level sensors are pretty typical on the BMW boxer bikes. The long tube is the actual fuel gauge sensor (float sliding inside the tube on thin wires) & the float on the arm is for the low fuel warning light.

 

Those bare wires inside the tank are not good but they cause no fire or explosion concern as there isn't enough oxygen inside the tank to allow either. Even when all is good that in-tank electric fuel pump pumps the fuel through the electric motor to both cool it & lubricate it.    

 

Your best bet is to totally clean the tank out,  then find &  install a good used pump pass through (usually E-Bay) then install new in-tank hoses (those are special expensive hoses as they are designed to be high pressure & fuel submersible), even the smaller vent & filler drain hoses are special as they need to be fuel submersible. 

 

It's a lot of work to refurbish the in-tank fuel system & can be REAL EXPENSIVE if new parts are sourced, but if you bide your time & buy good used parts it isn't too bad. 

 

Don't try to run it until the tank is cleaned out & new filter & pump parts installed or you will end up with plugged fuel injectors (they might already be plugged & need to be sent out for cleaning). 

 

On the pump pass-through plate--if it is really rusted up then a good used is the best bet, if it is savable then you can re-wire it yourself with some fuel submersible wire & a solder gun. I have seen some that just cover the in-tank wires with heat shrink but I'm not sure that is a good long term repair unless you can find alcohol resistant heat shrink. 

 

Take it all apart then see what is savable & what is not-- then make a game plan from that info. 

 

Both E-Bay & BeemerBoneyard are good places to look for in-tank parts as well as Euro Motoelectrics  for new pump or other new parts. 

 

Added: if you look back through old posts on this site (or use the search function) you can probably find a number of  old posts (including some pictures) of others that have had to deal with the very same in-tank corrosion issues that you are facing now.  

 

You might try putting "fuel pump"   (use the included quotes) into the search box on this site as that should bring up a number of old fuel system posts, some might be helpful.  

[Balibeemer]

Just follow Dirt riders guidance and you will find out why he is’The Oracle’

[Paddler]

I don't know if this has come up before on the Oilhead forum, but one of my 1998 R1100R's had a fuel tank problem.  At the time BMW was coating the inside of the tanks with a reddish brown substance to prevent rust.  Never did figure out what it was, epoxy maybe, but on trying to start the bike for the first time a couple of years ago the fuel pump was dead.  No couple of seconds noise on turning the key.  On inspecting the tank it was clear that the coating had peeled away from the tank in large and small pieces. 

 

My theory is that the coating fragments blocked the fuel filter, causing the pump to overheat, thus killing it.  The remedy was to remove the tank, strip off the coating completely, then recoat it.  The stripping part was a royal PITA, as nothing I could find, including Jasco, worked very well to dissolve it.  I even contacted the now-defunct Motorcycle Consumer News about the issue, their tech writer wrote a small column about it.  BMW was no help.  A local shop would strip it using a torch, thus ruining the paint and the 75th Anniversary decal, so that was a no go.  Using strippers without damaging the exterior paint required a great deal of care, I don't wish that job on anybody. 

 

I finally got it done and recoated the inside with Red Kote.  Had to replace the pump, filter, tubing, etc.  I have since sold that bike, the new owner lives nearby and hasn't had any problems.  I still have a twin to that bike, the VIN's are only 300 apart, but haven't had any similar issues.

[dirtrider]

44 minutes ago, Paddler said:

I don't know if this has come up before on the Oilhead forum, but one of my 1998 R1100R's had a fuel tank problem.  At the time BMW was coating the inside of the tanks with a reddish brown substance to prevent rust.  Never did figure out what it was, epoxy maybe, but on trying to start the bike for the first time a couple of years ago the fuel pump was dead.  No couple of seconds noise on turning the key.  On inspecting the tank it was clear that the coating had peeled away from the tank in large and small pieces. 

 

My theory is that the coating fragments blocked the fuel filter, causing the pump to overheat, thus killing it.  The remedy was to remove the tank, strip off the coating completely, then recoat it.  The stripping part was a royal PITA, as nothing I could find, including Jasco, worked very well to dissolve it.  I even contacted the now-defunct Motorcycle Consumer News about the issue, their tech writer wrote a small column about it.  BMW was no help.  A local shop would strip it using a torch, thus ruining the paint and the 75th Anniversary decal, so that was a no go.  Using strippers without damaging the exterior paint required a great deal of care, I don't wish that job on anybody. 

 

I finally got it done and recoated the inside with Red Kote.  Had to replace the pump, filter, tubing, etc.  I have since sold that bike, the new owner lives nearby and hasn't had any problems.  I still have a twin to that bike, the VIN's are only 300 apart, but haven't had any similar issues.

Afternoon  Paddler 

 

Different situations as your (R) bike had a metal fuel tank, the fuel tank on the 1150 RT-P of the OP (Deiesse) is made of plastic therefore no internal coating to deal with. 

[Paddler]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Paddler 

 

Different situations as your (R) bike had a metal fuel tank, the fuel tank on the 1150 RT-P of the OP (Deiesse) is made of plastic therefore no internal coating to deal with. 

 

I wondered about that.  Steel tanks can be a pain.  Have you heard of the coating peeling away or was my bike unique?  My 2007 DR650 doesn't have any issues yet.

[Skywagon]

Paddler....I had an airhead with a metal tank and the red coating you describe.  Even though I rode it regularly it peeled and clogged up the petcocks.  I cleaned it with a tank liner kit and relined it.  So...not sure which BMW's had the coating and which ones peeled but yes it existed in some metal tanks.

[Paddler]

6 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Paddler....I had an airhead with a metal tank and the red coating you describe.  Even though I rode it regularly it peeled and clogged up the petcocks.  I cleaned it with a tank liner kit and relined it.  So...not sure which BMW's had the coating and which ones peeled but yes it existed in some metal tanks.

 

The problem is worse when it happens to oilheads as it can kill your fuel pump.  That's expensive and a PITA to fix.

[jmerlinw]

Deiesse: I wish you success with your fuel tank project. Should you get your tank and innards straightened away (of course you will!), injector cleaning would be a good additional step. I've had good results from Mr. Injector. He will test your injectors before, clean, and retest, and send back with a flow-test report. A good injector cleaning should be done with the injector orifice open (electrically actuated). Less than $20 per injector.  

[Deiesse]

On 6/17/2021 at 3:42 AM, dirtrider said:

Morning   Deiesse

 

Yes, I have seen a number of gunked up fuel systems like you have now. E-10 gasoline is a nasty fuel to store with as it turns sour in a hurry. 

 

Those 2 in-tank fuel level sensors are pretty typical on the BMW boxer bikes. The long tube is the actual fuel gauge sensor (float sliding inside the tube on thin wires) & the float on the arm is for the low fuel warning light.

 

Those bare wires inside the tank are not good but they cause no fire or explosion concern as there isn't enough oxygen inside the tank to allow either. Even when all is good that in-tank electric fuel pump pumps the fuel through the electric motor to both cool it & lubricate it.    

 

Your best bet is to totally clean the tank out,  then find &  install a good used pump pass through (usually E-Bay) then install new in-tank hoses (those are special expensive hoses as they are designed to be high pressure & fuel submersible), even the smaller vent & filler drain hoses are special as they need to be fuel submersible. 

 

It's a lot of work to refurbish the in-tank fuel system & can be REAL EXPENSIVE if new parts are sourced, but if you bide your time & buy good used parts it isn't too bad. 

 

Don't try to run it until the tank is cleaned out & new filter & pump parts installed or you will end up with plugged fuel injectors (they might already be plugged & need to be sent out for cleaning). 

 

On the pump pass-through plate--if it is really rusted up then a good used is the best bet, if it is savable then you can re-wire it yourself with some fuel submersible wire & a solder gun. I have seen some that just cover the in-tank wires with heat shrink but I'm not sure that is a good long term repair unless you can find alcohol resistant heat shrink. 

 

Take it all apart then see what is savable & what is not-- then make a game plan from that info. 

 

Both E-Bay & BeemerBoneyard are good places to look for in-tank parts as well as Euro Motoelectrics  for new pump or other new parts. 

 

Added: if you look back through old posts on this site (or use the search function) you can probably find a number of  old posts (including some pictures) of others that have had to deal with the very same in-tank corrosion issues that you are facing now.  

 

You might try putting "fuel pump"   (use the included quotes) into the search box on this site as that should bring up a number of old fuel system posts, some might be helpful.  

Not that I’m in the least surprised, but every detail you mentioned was accurate in this situation… you are indeed The Oracle. Many thanks for your (and everyone else’s) comments and advice!

 

So here’s my long overdue Update.

FINALLY got to go on a short ride with the RT-P today! Other than getting used to tucking my boots into the fairing, it went fairly smoothly. I’m noticing a slight clicking/clunking sound from inside the front of the motor… sounds like a crank bearing, but it isn’t a constant sound.

“So I’m gonna go ahead ‘n do the Right Thing, and pretend I didn’t hear it”.

 

My wrenching so far has been: complete disassembly-and-repair of the tank components, routine scheduled maintenance, and thorough cleaning.

The wiring on the fuel level tube was history, so I bought a used one from Deutschland. 💰 (it doesn’t appear to activate the Low Fuel lamp, but whatever - I have a working gauge 🤷🏼‍♂️).

 

I bought the “complete” Pump and Filter kit from BBY, and installed what I could on the original plate. Here’s where things get Uber sketchy: although the BBY kit came with hose clamps, it didn’t have any hoses (explain the logic in THAT). And I had zero luck finding submersible fuel line anywhere around here, so I went ahead and did the Right Thing, and just used the regular old hose they had at Napa… yes, I realize there’s now a dark horizon ahead of me.

Although the U-hose did have cracks on the outside, I had no choice but to re-use it. I just don’t understand why nobody has a replacement for these little buggers.

 

The bare wiring on the separator plate was also an issue. I gave up trying to find the appropriate submersible wire, so I went ahead and did the WRONG Thing, and just re-soldered them with a double layer of heat-shrink… because a double-layer will last twice as long! 🤦🏼‍♂️ 

 

I meant to take the offered advice and send the injectors out to be cleaned and checked… but that never happened. So I rolled the dice on that issue.

 

Once the tank was back together and tested successfully (THAT was a joyous moment, when I heard the pump prime and then the engine started!), I began the basic maintenance on the engine: oil, filters, spark plugs, inner- and outer VC gaskets.

I had bought an aluminum spark boot tool from BBY, but that thing was about as useful as hen poop on a pump handle. I gotta say, I’m not pleasantly impressed with BBY at all. 👎🏼

I also bought an alternator belt, but after all the work it took to get to the one that was already on it, it looked perfectly fine.

I would’ve changed it anyway, if I could’ve loosened the adjuster bolt on the back side of the alternator… but I couldn’t, so I didn’t.

 

The gearbox oil and the final drive oil both looked fine and were topped-off.

After reading comments about some kind of “spline issue” with these drive shafts, I also purchased some “special” grease… then I looked through my next-to-useless Haynes manual (3466), and saw how much work was involved in removing the d-shaft. Yeah, I’m not going there. This was a California Hwy Patrol bike, so I’m going to GAaDtRT, and assume that if the “spline issue” was that big of a deal, surely they’d have had it properly serviced. I trust Harlan; he never let Ponch or John down! 😃👍🏼#heyitcouldhavehappened

 

So now the bike has been cleaned, reassembled and polished. It runs and drives moderately well (especially for a bike with 66k on it). The brakes work exceptionally well, but I do intend to replace them in the near future (if the  improperly-serviced fuel tank doesn’t become an IUD before then). 
 

I do want to replace the tires soon, since this bike sat in a garage for a decade before I bought it.

I welcome any and all suggestions on replacement tires for this bike.

From what I’ve heard and read, the CHP had some esoteric requirement that their Motor units had to be able to ride 10 miles on flat tires, so their wheel/tire stipulations were above and beyond what most other agencies used; I wish I knew exactly what tires they used.

 

I want to take it out on a longer test-ride in the next few days, but there is a slight issue that popped-up on the short ride today, that will need to be tackled before any more rides: the power windscreen - which has worked perfectly each and every time I unnecessarily played with it until today - suddenly doesn’t work, and it’s all the way down, which me no like. 🚫

I hear a solenoid clicking when I move the switch, but no movement. Fuse is good. Guess I’m removing the dash again. 😖

 

Many thanks to you guys! 
I won’t bore you guys with a bunch of progress updates, but I’ll be sure to let y’all know if the tank winds-up exploding.

….if I survive, I mean. 😉