Advice for a Soon-to-be BMW rider

[Robus]

Don't get rid of your Sportster. Sold my identical 1200R when I bought my RT. Still have one Harley, but wish I still had the 1200R. Just couldn't justify three bikes. Great handling bike.....even my BMW friends liked riding it (for short distances!)....

 

I'm having second thoughts about keeping the Sporty. Sigh. My wife is all in favor of me selling it in order to pay off the larger part of what I financed on the Beemer.

 

For me, the bigger consideration is this. The RT with its linked ABS and the Sporty with its conventional brakes require two different braking techniques.

 

Based on some preliminary parking lot practice, the fastest way to stop this RT seems to be to hammer the lever and let the ABS do its thing. Try that on the Sporty and I would be sliding down the highway on my chin (for the second time this year...).

 

So my question is, do I really want to commit two different braking techniques to muscle memory and then hope I resort to the right technique for the bike I happen to be riding at the moment when I need to stop really, really quickly?

 

A related question: do people put road bells on Beemers? That's a little piece of Harley lore that is just plain fun.

[Boffin]

You should NOT use different braking techniques for the two bikes. On both bikes, you should get to a parking lot and practive threshold braking with each braks, then both brakes. ABS is a backup safety aid, NOT a primary braking mode.

 

Andy

[Robus]

You should NOT use different braking techniques for the two bikes. On both bikes, you should get to a parking lot and practive threshold braking with each braks, then both brakes. ABS is a backup safety aid, NOT a primary braking mode.

 

Andy

 

Interesting. I do need to practice more on the Beemer. Based on just a couple of hours in the parking lot so far, I was not able to stop as quickly trying to find the threshold as just allowing the ABS to kick in.

 

 

One thing that my accident in April brought home to me in a big way was this. Even though I had done a lot of braking practice on the Harley and thought I was pretty good at it, there is something about facing an honest-to-god "I mean to kill you" left-turner that can add a few extra foot pounds of pressure to the front brake lever.

[Robus]

Andy, I'm probably hijacking my own thread and taking it off in a different direction here, but how could a motorcycle with linked brakes not require a different technique than one without? Leaving the ABS aside. With conventional brakes, it's always that delicate coordination of front and rear: A little more rear brake at the beginning, then ease up on the rear as the weight transfers forward, then more rear brake again as the bike eases to a stop. The technique is different with linked brakes, no?

 

I need to be educated on this subject. The manual that came with the bike was pretty taciturn on all this. The service manager at Chicago BMW who gave me the pre-flight briefing before I rode it off the lot actually smirked when I asked if the RT could do a stoppie. He explained that since the brakes won't lock, it can't do a stoppie....right? After that reply, I didn't see a point to asking him any more questions.

[Quinn]

You know how the sound of scrappping parts lets you know how far you can lean the bike over? Well, the ABS kicking in lets you know how much squeeze you can put on the brakes.

 

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[ka5ysy]

Andy, I'm probably hijacking my own thread and taking it off in a different direction here, but how could a motorcycle with linked brakes not require a different technique than one without? Leaving the ABS aside. With conventional brakes, it's always that delicate coordination of front and rear: A little more rear brake at the beginning, then ease up on the rear as the weight transfers forward, then more rear brake again as the bike eases to a stop. The technique is different with linked brakes, no?

 

I need to be educated on this subject. The manual that came with the bike was pretty taciturn on all this. The service manager at Chicago BMW who gave me the pre-flight briefing before I rode it off the lot actually smirked when I asked if the RT could do a stoppie. He explained that since the brakes won't lock, it can't do a stoppie....right? After that reply, I didn't see a point to asking him any more questions.

 

 

FWIW: We MSF/Riders Edge Instructors teach "both brakes always" for normal stopping. In practice, at low parking lot maneuvering speed and turning, this changes slightly to "rear brake only" to avoid having an "asphaltic encounter". For emergency quick stops, apply both brakes fully by squeezing (not grabbing!) the front brake and pressing the rear, with the handle bars square and straight to avoid a dump.

 

The reason you always want to use both brakes is that if you happen to get on some other bike you do not normally ride, you will still be doing proper application of brakes instead of automatically relying on the particular brake setup your usual ride might have. For example, my R1200R has the setup that application of the front brake lever also stages in the rear. The rear brake only activates the rear. Some of the bikes I ride are not linked in any manner. Front is only front and rear is only rear. The easy way to keep all these different setups straight when riding is to simply do it the correct way in the first place: Both brakes always.

 

For the standard fork motorcycles, I generally suggest slightly leading a braking situation with the rear brake so that the weight transfer (forks compress) occurs before the full application of the front brake to avoid a front wheel lockup. Since a lot of the BMW bikes exhibit no front fork dive, you will not notice the weight transfer/fork compression, and the anti-lock brakes will avoid a lockup anyway.

 

If you have never had a formal training session or even if you have and it has been while, go sign up for either a basic rider course, or an experienced rider course (you can use your own bike in these!) and gain some good experience in how to do quick stops, stops in turns, swerving and the always problematic cornering procedures. You absolutely will learn skills that will save your life.

 

Proper braking skills are somewhat volatile and must be practiced regularly to keep sharp.

 

For those of you with ABS, go find a straight spot without a lot of traffic and actually try the system by grabbing a handful of brake (just what you are not supposed to do!). It will feel like you have dropped a tail hook and you will stop right now. Your eyeballs will kind of pop like in the cartoon, but nothing bad happens !!. I recently had a guy with a R1200GS that had never experienced the ABS in an experienced rider course. I had him do a full grab of the brakes to activate the ABS on one of his practice brake passes. His first words were "Holy Crap!" and a big smile appeared on his face. He now appreciates what the ABS is capable of doing when it is needed, and he learned something about his bike !

 

 

 

 

[Robus]

Thanks ka5ysy. That's good practical advice if I'm going to ride two bikes with different braking systems. I'm still getting familiar with the RT. Riding it these recent days I've been applying both brakes for normal stopping because that is the technique I've learned over the years. I had been wondering though whether that might be counterproductive--i.e., by applying the rear brake manually, I might be overriding the linked system and actually getting less effective braking. It doesn't matter so much for normal braking, but I'm a believer in the mantra of "train like you fight; fight like you train." Whatever you are used to doing normally is probably what you're going to do in an emergency braking event.

[tallman]

Andy, I'm probably hijacking my own thread and taking it off in a different direction here, but how could a motorcycle with linked brakes not require a different technique than one without? Leaving the ABS aside. With conventional brakes, it's always that delicate coordination of front and rear: A little more rear brake at the beginning, then ease up on the rear as the weight transfers forward, then more rear brake again as the bike eases to a stop. The technique is different with linked brakes, no?

 

 

 

 

I need to be educated on this subject. The manual that came with the bike was pretty taciturn on all this. The service manager at Chicago BMW who gave me the pre-flight briefing before I rode it off the lot actually smirked when I asked if the RT could do a stoppie. He explained that since the brakes won't lock, it can't do a stoppie....right? After that reply, I didn't see a point to asking him any more questions.

 

He is, to put it mildly, mistaken.

My link broke.

Google

Jean Pierre Goy and R 1200 RT

 

[Robus]

"Jean Pierre Goy and R 1200 RT"

 

Amazing!

[gmarktbone]

Is it really necessary to go through all that braking technique on a linked RT? I never use my foot brake. I can stop very well just using the handbrake. I get it about moving to another bike that doesn't have linked brakes, but I will probably take it really easy on a new bike while I'm getting used to having to not having linked brakes. That being said-after having an RT with linked brakes, I will probably not be buying another bike without them.

[Boffin]

Is it really necessary to go through all that braking technique on a linked RT? I never use my foot brake. I can stop very well just using the handbrake. I get it about moving to another bike that doesn't have linked brakes, but I will probably take it really easy on a new bike while I'm getting used to having to not having linked brakes. That being said-after having an RT with linked brakes, I will probably not be buying another bike without them.

 

Yes, it is. The linked brakes are there to compensate for poor technique not to encourage it. Should the linking fail, you will only be using part of the now limited braking effort available to you. If you never practice threshole braking, up to and including locking the wheels or activating the ABS you will not know haw quickly you can stop or how the bike behaves under heavy braking. Various studies have suggested that a lot of motorcycle/car crashes could have been avoided if the rider had not been too frightened to brake at the bikes maximum. Many others are caused by over-braking on non-ABS bikes. Both scenarios are much reduced if good thechnique is used and practised on a regular basis.

 

Andy

[Twisties]

I'm going to disagree. Much confusion on this subject because different BMW models have different set up regards the linking protocols, and the abs set up.

 

I regularly do parking lot practice and I agree with Robus, the one time I really needed my brakes, it was a whole different ballgame.

 

On an '07 RT at least you can and likely should grab as much front brake as possible as fast as possible, and leave the rear brake alone, in a true panic stop. At least, that is my opinion.

 

After this thread

[Twisties]

...and this thread too...

[Robus]

Thanks for the links, Twisties.

[Bill246]

As a fairly new owner of a 09 r1200rt when i went looking for a new bike i was torn between those same two bikes. It came down to power vs handleing for me. i like the handling of the rt and it had plenty of power. As for 2-up riding its is very comfortable me and the wife just compeleted a 500mile 12hr ride and the backs where good a little but sore with stock seats but nothing that interfered with the trip. I have but on 7k miles and the maintance has been very straight foward so far Good luck on your choice as both will be great bikes

[Robus]

Thanks Bill. I chose the RT and am delighted with it so far.

[ka5ysy]

 

On an '07 RT at least you can and likely should grab as much front brake as possible as fast as possible, and leave the rear brake alone, in a true panic stop. At least, that is my opinion.

 

 

You can get away with this as the link system stages in the rear. It is still a very bad habit to get into, because as previously noted, if the link system faults, you will leave about 20% of your brake effectiveness unused. You should also not get into the habit of "grabbing" a handful of brake and relying on the ABS. If you ever happen to be on another bike without ABS you will instantly have an "asphaltic" experience due to front wheel lockup. Squeeze the front brake, and press the rear. They are like volume controls, not on/off switches.

 

FWIW, the BMW ABS will allow a small stoppie sometime, but nothing thrilling and unless you are standing beside the bike watching it happen, you will not notice it when riding. It is a really effective system that is worth every penny when you need it.

 

Go out and practice threshold braking with your bike and get a feel for where the ABS kicks in, and how fast you can stop without the ABS functioning. It is great practice in any event, because we suggest always practicing three important survival skills: 1. Emergency quick stops, 2. Stopping quickly in a curve (bike upright, bars square, apply brakes fully) and 3. Swerves.

 

I do this combination every time I leave my neighborhood to tune up the survival instincts before entering the combat zone.