Shift Cam Oil

[Dave_in_TX]

18 minutes ago, TSConver said:

 

MA2 is the important one if you want the wet clutch to survive.

MA2 is is the newer wet clutch spec, MA is the older one.

[Dave_in_TX]

3 hours ago, Hosstage said:

Are oil choices being talked about here based on performance, or cost?

What is the difference in cost between the BMW recommended product and the least expensive substitute?

Don't know about least expensive substitute, but there are less expensive oils available from reputable brands that meet the rquirements. I doubt there is anything special about the BMW oil.

[Yuro]

On 6/29/2021 at 6:56 PM, steveg said:

How about the liquid moly m2 5-40 from Beemer boneyard? I bought a oil change kit from them, they say it's for R1250RT. Thoughts

 

Steve:  

 

I'm using that LM from Beemer BY too.  Just changed yesterday.   It's same ratings as BMW synth oil and should be on an approved list somewhere, so should be fine. Save those receipts and document all your work.   Put it in a nice folder or something so you have it at trade-in.  Even BMW dealers will respect that when you come in to trade your bike...at least mine does.  

 

The only issue is warranty.  If you took it to the dealer for every service and something goes wrong, there will be no hassle.  If you do things on your own, you may have to stand up for yourself, but, so long as no aftermarket parts are involved or inferior oils or filters, they should honor the warranty.   ...If the BMW Zone Rep can find a legitimate reason for denial, he will deny.... 

 

....I was about 20 miles into a trip to Missouri one blustery Fall day, leading a group of 5 riders out of the Western suburbs of Chicago.   We took a little side road with some interesting curves.  I went first around one and there was a pavement cut-out all the way across the road just after.  It had been filled with sand but there was a nasty storm the night before, all the sand had washed out leaving a sharp curbing down into the 3" deep cutout and another sharp curb up.  It didn't look that bad really.   I braked hard for it and went into it at a reasonable speed but my paralever broke into 3 pieces.  The rear wheel was no longer supported by suspension and dropped into the rear plastic fender of my '05 RT.  

 

I thought surely this would be covered.  The bike had under 4K miles on it.  I called BMW roadside.   They didn't have my VIN number in their system and refused service. (Dealer had apparently not filled out the form correctly.)  I called Progressive and they were great.   My wife came out in the car and picked me up after the tow guy put my bike on a flatbed with help from me.    The bike did not go down, it just had no rear suspension.    

 

The Zone Rep inspected the bike and the claim and denied it because I had a brand-new Wilburs suspension on the bike.   It could have contributed to the issue, so they denied the claim.   Progressive paid it as a "road hazard" claim.   I had to pay deductable and a little extra mileage for the tow, but Progressive picked up the rest.  

 

Just showing this as an example of how BMW warranties work in real life.  

 

Porsche has denied expensive claims on failed ABS units because there was ATE Super Blue Dot 4 brake fluid in the system and it's not the prescribed fluid...and it's the WRONG COLOR.  They are legally correct.  I can't  prove that the blue brake fluid had no effect on the failure and it's definitely not the stock fluid.    ATE makes the same fluid in clear.  Use that instead and no problem.   This didn't happen to me, but to a track-day friend.   I will never use Super Blue or any  colored brake fluid in my cars or bikes after hearing about this incident.  

 

If you have aftermarket brake pads and your transmission goes, I don't think anyone can or would try to deny coverage of the trans.  It's not legal to do that.  There has to be cause and effect.   But if the stock fluid in the trans is clear or amber and they find red oil in your trans, well, you may have a problem.   They won't go to extremes to dig for things, but something like wrong-colored fluid or non-BMW shocks is pretty obvious.  

 

Yes, you can try to fight city hall on claims like this, but you'll likely just spend a lot of money and time making yourself angry with not much joy from BMW.  

 

 

[Yuro]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:35 AM, Dave_in_TX said:

Don't know about least expensive substitute, but there are less expensive oils available from reputable brands that meet the rquirements. I doubt there is anything special about the BMW oil.

Dave et al:

 

You need to be a little big careful here.   Wet head bikes have wet clutches in them.  Using the slickest possible synthetic may be OK for the motor but not for the clutch and you could get a badly slipping clutch.  This happened to me with an Aprilia motorcycle when I put in synth instead of conventional oil.    The engine oil bathes the clutch.  

 

Shift-head bikes have wet clutches plus the oil-fed shift-cam mechanism that may require a specific friction to work right.   I know in the past, some BMWs used a roller bearing that didn't work right if you used oil that was too slick.    So "better" lubrication may or may not be better for your bike.   You need right lubrication, not just better.   

 

If the ratings for the oil you're considering are the same as the BMW stuff and the oil is on BMW's approved list, you're fine.   They have to publish a list of acceptable oils. They aren't allowed to only let you use BMW branded oil in your bike.   The oil you use should be on the BMW list..   When a company says it's better because it does better on this or that test, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will work better in your bike.    

 

I have a problem using diesel grade synth oil like Rotella in a new BMW because the ratings are different and it's not on the list.   It might work but if it causes a problem, you will have to pay for the repair/replacement.   BMW has the right to not cover you.   

[Dave_in_TX]

I am well aware that wetheads an shiftcams have wet clutches. There are numerous brands that meet the requirements for the wethead and shifting (including the MA2 spec for the clutch).

 

BMW specs a 5w40 oil that meets API SL (according to API, SM, and SN meet protection requirements for SL) and JASO MA2.

 

Rotella used to meet these specs but the new formulation no longer carries an API gas rating so it no longer meets specs.

 

Just a few that meet spec are Castrol, Liqui Molly and Motul.

[TSConver]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:35 PM, tbrown said:

 

Steve:  

 

I'm using that LM from Beemer BY too.  Just changed yesterday.   It's same ratings as BMW synth oil and should be on an approved list somewhere, so should be fine. Save those receipts and document all your work.   Put it in a nice folder or something so you have it at trade-in.  Even BMW dealers will respect that when you come in to trade your bike...at least mine does.  

 

The only issue is warranty.  If you took it to the dealer for every service and something goes wrong, there will be no hassle.  If you do things on your own, you may have to stand up for yourself, but, so long as no aftermarket parts are involved or inferior oils or filters, they should honor the warranty.   ...If the BMW Zone Rep can find a legitimate reason for denial, he will deny.... 

 

....I was about 20 miles into a trip to Missouri one blustery Fall day, leading a group of 5 riders out of the Western suburbs of Chicago.   We took a little side road with some interesting curves.  I went first around one and there was a pavement cut-out all the way across the road just after.  It had been filled with sand but there was a nasty storm the night before, all the sand had washed out leaving a sharp curbing down into the 3" deep cutout and another sharp curb up.  It didn't look that bad really.   I braked hard for it and went into it at a reasonable speed but my paralever broke into 3 pieces.  The rear wheel was no longer supported by suspension and dropped into the rear plastic fender of my '05 RT.  

 

I thought surely this would be covered.  The bike had under 4K miles on it.  I called BMW roadside.   They didn't have my VIN number in their system and refused service. (Dealer had apparently not filled out the form correctly.)  I called Progressive and they were great.   My wife came out in the car and picked me up after the tow guy put my bike on a flatbed with help from me.    The bike did not go down, it just had no rear suspension.    

 

The Zone Rep inspected the bike and the claim and denied it because I had a brand-new Wilburs suspension on the bike.   It could have contributed to the issue, so they denied the claim.   Progressive paid it as a "road hazard" claim.   I had to pay deductable and a little extra mileage for the tow, but Progressive picked up the rest.  

 

Just showing this as an example of how BMW warranties work in real life.  

 

Porsche has denied expensive claims on failed ABS units because there was ATE Super Blue Dot 4 brake fluid in the system and it's not the prescribed fluid...and it's the WRONG COLOR.  They are legally correct.  I can't  prove that the blue brake fluid had no effect on the failure and it's definitely not the stock fluid.    ATE makes the same fluid in clear.  Use that instead and no problem.   This didn't happen to me, but to a track-day friend.   I will never use Super Blue or any  colored brake fluid in my cars or bikes after hearing about this incident.  

 

If you have aftermarket brake pads and your transmission goes, I don't think anyone can or would try to deny coverage of the trans.  It's not legal to do that.  There has to be cause and effect.   But if the stock fluid in the trans is clear or amber and they find red oil in your trans, well, you may have a problem.   They won't go to extremes to dig for things, but something like wrong-colored fluid or non-BMW shocks is pretty obvious.  

 

Yes, you can try to fight city hall on claims like this, but you'll likely just spend a lot of money and time making yourself angry with not much joy from BMW.  

 

 

 

You should really look up Magnusson moss warranty act.  If you want to fight any of those issues you can and would win in court.  The manufacturer is just betting that you will not take them to court or cannot afford to take them to court and initially deny the claim but substituting aftermarket parts or using equivalent oil and filter at a service as long as it meets the requirements of the manufacturer they have to honor the warranty.

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, TSConver said:

 

You should really look up Magnusson moss warranty act.  If you want to fight any of those issues you can and would win in court.  The manufacturer is just betting that you will not take them to court or cannot afford to take them to court and initially deny the claim but substituting aftermarket parts or using equivalent oil and filter at a service as long as it meets the requirements of the manufacturer they have to honor the warranty.

Morning  TSConver

 

Unfortunately all the manufacturer needs to say is NO, then it is up to the customer to prove that they used the correct  lubricants, or filters, or whatever. The motor companies typically have legal staff already in their employment with a vast knowledge of defending against such lawsuits.

 

Not that you can't win but that takes time, upfront money, & a good lawyer to win, then what do you actually gain? Plus, all that time that the legal process is slowly ticking along your motorcycle is sitting in a pile of parts and unrideable. 

 

IDK, in the long run it seems cheaper & lot less of a hassle to just use the correct oil & filter while the motorcycle is under warranty then once the warranty runs out switch to whatever you want. 

 

From what I have seen in that past , when it comes to BMW motorcycles, BMW does cover most blatant "in warranty" concerns without much for lubricant testing, oil analysis, or debate, so unless a rider uses a noticeable different color oil, or has oil change receipts that shows an incorrect viscosity or odd additive then BMW seems to cover it without much fuss.  It's those just out-of-warranty issues that BMW seems to pick up for some riders with "good will"  intent that usually includes dealer involvement or nudging.  Those seem to be a LOT easier to get if the dealer is in your corner fighting for you & the rider has good solid documentation that proper (BMW approved)  products were used.

     

If you have to stand there arguing with the BMW rep & the service manager that the oil or filter you used really does (or should have) met the BMW accepted requirements then there is a real good chance that the "good will" help will turn into "good luck" getting us to help you. 

[alexp]

 said:

I run Motul 7100 4T 5W40 100% Synthetic Engine Oil 4 Liters (104087) in my Wethead. My mechanic recommend using this oil for Hawaii. Its hot all the time here.

[9Mary7]

6 hours ago, alexp said:

 Motul 7100 4T 5W40 100% Synthetic Engine Oil

That's some good stuff!

Ran exclusively Motul in our road race bikes, made the most power and never an engine failure over 6 bikes and 5 years.

[ADulay]

Prior to this year's Sturgis run I tried to order up some Castrol Power 1 (5w40) oil for a scheduled oil change while out on the road.

 

Had two sellers eventually cancel my order due to unavailability of product.   With a week to go, I had to break down and order the BMW oil from a dealer to be shipped to Indiana in time for me to be there and do the oil change.

 

None of my local auto stores have it and can't get it (??)

 

Anyway, that's my story for today.

 

AD

 

[Yuro]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:46 AM, Paddler said:

I don't mind being flamed, I bought an Aerostich Darien jacket and pants last year.  Not Nomex, but good stuff.  Everything is risk vs reward in this life.  As the T6 is MA-2, it's okay for the wet clutch.  The viscosity is right, so any cooling effect should not be compromised.  If it's good for extended use in diesel engines, I think it's good to go.  Here's an excerpt from the articled linked on page 3 of the thread over on the Wethead thread:

 

The additive packages for C (commercial) certification are designed to promote engine life. The additive packages for C rated oils contain extra buffers and detergents to keep the engine clean and free of acids. C rated oils are far better than S oils at holding and dispersing combustion byproducts and other contaminants, and at not becoming acidic. Traditionally these oils are primarily used in diesel motors, which are very expensive and are expected to last a million miles or more. When an engine rebuild costs $10,000 - $15,000 and puts you out of work for a week or three, you don't mind paying a bit more for your oil. The C certification tests have been largely developed by Mack, Caterpillar, Detroit and Cummins to provide the additives necessary to keep these engines running a long time. The latest commercial certification is CI-4 Plus, which includes extra protection for high temperature high revving motors. Since it's designed for diesel motors, they don't care about no stinkin' catalytic thingies, and CAFE is a place where you get a cup of joe and a donut. CI-4 Plus differs from CI-4 with higher detergent requirements and better sheer stability. The shear stability is exactly what motorcycles need due to running the engine oil through the transmission.

 

Although C standards are changed every few years, the older standards are enhanced, not superceded. So, newer higher rated C oils are simply better than older lower rated oils.

 

I'm just averse to paying BMW dealer prices for the same or similar products.  The Rotella was $22, the Supertech 3614 filter was $3 (vs $14), so it cost $25 + tax.  The alternator belt I just replaced in my R1100R was $25 at the dealer, the Dayco was $8 at Autozone.  Oh, and I didn't pay $25K for the bike, either.  I got such a good deal the sales manager asked me to not share that information.  It really isn't so much the cost per se, as the difference is trivial.  I just don't believe in paying for Black Forest magic.  I'll keep the forum posted if I have any oil-related failures.  Leaving on a ~2000+ tour end of the month, so we'll see. 

Paddler:  The problem I see with Rotella is the cat and the O2 sensor.  I'm sure the lubrication aspect is there but, as everyone here is saying, why take the chance?    If you're in a pinch on the road, using clean T6 oil is better than dirty, overused BMW oil, but I wouldn't use Rotella as a full time replacement for the correct brew.   Eventually, the extra sulfur or whatever is going to muck up your cat, which will cost way more than you can save on oil....Maybe you can find a wreck?  Maybe you can just drill out the cat?  Maybe you can buy a used aftermarket exhaust?   That's assuming you don't care about clean air and don't live in a state that checks motorcycles.   

 

I would also use care in choosing a replacement filter.  I use Mann or Purolator filters from Beemer Boneyard.  Both brands build filters to BMW specs for their parts counters and for factory engine assemblies.  I don't think the Roundel on side of the filter means much.  

 

Just know that some of the big-box filters are not of the same quality/flow etc as the real deal, regardless of stated manufacturer.  If it's cheap, it's probably made with short-cuts.   They're more one size fits all, using standard parts and skipping finer points.    Maybe they'll work?  Maybe they'll make a mess?  Maybe they'll flow enough oil?  Maybe they'll by-pass more oil than they filter.  You'll have no recourse and no way to prove a claim.    

[Skywagon]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:04 AM, dirtrider said:

IDK, in the long run it seems cheaper & lot less of a hassle to just use the correct oil & filter while the motorcycle is under warranty then once the warranty runs out switch to whatever you want.

This. 

We spend 20-30k on a bike and every 6-10k miles we worry about spending an extra $20 on oil and induce the risk of BMW saying sorry can't help you. During the warranty period, IMHO, it doesn't make sense to challenge BMW or quite frankly any manufacturer of expensive toys.

[Rougarou]

I'm just wondering when these engines or parts will fail due to using Rotella.  For the last 27500 on the '19 GSA, it's had Rotella.  The '06rt is at 150k.  Both bikes are ridden every other week, minimum 100 mile a work day.

 

 

On 7/2/2022 at 7:04 AM, dirtrider said:

Morning  TSConver

 

Unfortunately all the manufacturer needs to say is NO, then it is up to the customer to prove that they used the correct  lubricants, or filters, or whatever. The motor companies typically have legal staff already in their employment with a vast knowledge of defending against such lawsuits.

 

Not that you can't win but that takes time, upfront money, & a good lawyer to win, then what do you actually gain? Plus, all that time that the legal process is slowly ticking along your motorcycle is sitting in a pile of parts and unrideable. 

 

IDK, in the long run it seems cheaper & lot less of a hassle to just use the correct oil & filter while the motorcycle is under warranty then once the warranty runs out switch to whatever you want. 

 

From what I have seen in that past , when it comes to BMW motorcycles, BMW does cover most blatant "in warranty" concerns without much for lubricant testing, oil analysis, or debate, so unless a rider uses a noticeable different color oil, or has oil change receipts that shows an incorrect viscosity or odd additive then BMW seems to cover it without much fuss.  It's those just out-of-warranty issues that BMW seems to pick up for some riders with "good will"  intent that usually includes dealer involvement or nudging.  Those seem to be a LOT easier to get if the dealer is in your corner fighting for you & the rider has good solid documentation that proper (BMW approved)  products were used.

     

If you have to stand there arguing with the BMW rep & the service manager that the oil or filter you used really does (or should have) met the BMW accepted requirements then there is a real good chance that the "good will" help will turn into "good luck" getting us to help you. 

 

 

From my Jeep days and understanding the Magnusson-Moss Warranty, it is up to the manufacturer to prove that what I did to the vehicle caused the failure---I may be wrong on that, but that's how it was explained to me because all the mods to my Jeep were done while still under warranty.

 

As an example, my 2000 Wrangler was some months old, and I sorta sunk it in to a depth that water covered the engine.  The engine didn't hydrolock, but the TPS started acting stoopid--jerky acceleration.  Took the Jeep to the dealer, and you could plainly see the red clay waterline in the engine compartment, the dealer diagnosed, determined TPS, replaced under warranty.  A few days later the A/C wouldn't come on, took back in, and some relay was replaced under warranty.  No questions asked.

 

I then do the lift to the Jeep, change gears, add locker, drill holes in the frame for the long arms, eliminate the slip yoke on the transmission, raise the engine for angles, drop the transmission for angles, tweek up the rear diff for angles, all kinds of stuff to clear the 37's.  Mopar wanted xyz money for the tranny lube, so I contact New Venture Gear to find out what lube they recommend for the NV3550.  They tell me, and I use that.  Now, the NV3550 is known for the throw out bearings to rattle a bit loud.  After I used what NVG recommended, the throw out bearing rattled even at a higher level.  Jeep was still under warranty, so, I take it in, hood dents, rock scrapes and all.  I talk to the Jeep service manager and tell him my issue and that I used the gear juice that the actual manufacturer of the transmission recommended.  He says, "use the mopar stuff, if it still rattles, I'll swap the tranny under warranty",......So, I got the mopar stuff, put it in, the rattle quieted down,.......seems mopar put additional stuff to make the tranny quiet down that is not the stuff the manufacturer used.  I also had another TPS replaced under warranty with the Jeep quite modified.

 

Either way, it shows that a heavily modified vehicle was going to get taken care of under warranty.

 

Now, in talking with the service manager, John,  at Garcia Moto concerning warranty replacements, he told me they had a s1000rr that had a blown engine get replaced under warranty.  Once they ran the computer history, he said it showed it hit over 17k RPM, yet BMW still replaced the engine, stating to me that this was the cause of engine failure.  I dunno, but, if'n that story is true, I don't think that a difference in oil will negate a warranty claim.

 

On the BMW car side, I had the valve cover gaskets replaced out of warranty as a good will gesture.  Just laid new concrete for a driveway, thought the leak was coming from an older vehcile that we had, no, the 545 was dripping.  Ended up writing BMWNA and the local dealer contacted me stating that they'd do a goodwill replacement.  Leak solved.  They never asked me for maintenance records.

 

 

[dirtrider]

3 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

I'm just wondering when these engines or parts will fail due to using Rotella.  For the last 27500 on the '19 GSA, it's had Rotella.  The '06rt is at 150k.  Both bikes are ridden every other week, minimum 100 mile a work day.

 

 

 

 

From my Jeep days and understanding the Magnusson-Moss Warranty, it is up to the manufacturer to prove that what I did to the vehicle caused the failure---I may be wrong on that, but that's how it was explained to me because all the mods to my Jeep were done while still under warranty.

 

As an example, my 2000 Wrangler was some months old, and I sorta sunk it in to a depth that water covered the engine.  The engine didn't hydrolock, but the TPS started acting stoopid--jerky acceleration.  Took the Jeep to the dealer, and you could plainly see the red clay waterline in the engine compartment, the dealer diagnosed, determined TPS, replaced under warranty.  A few days later the A/C wouldn't come on, took back in, and some relay was replaced under warranty.  No questions asked.

 

I then do the lift to the Jeep, change gears, add locker, drill holes in the frame for the long arms, eliminate the slip yoke on the transmission, raise the engine for angles, drop the transmission for angles, tweek up the rear diff for angles, all kinds of stuff to clear the 37's.  Mopar wanted xyz money for the tranny lube, so I contact New Venture Gear to find out what lube they recommend for the NV3550.  They tell me, and I use that.  Now, the NV3550 is known for the throw out bearings to rattle a bit loud.  After I used what NVG recommended, the throw out bearing rattled even at a higher level.  Jeep was still under warranty, so, I take it in, hood dents, rock scrapes and all.  I talk to the Jeep service manager and tell him my issue and that I used the gear juice that the actual manufacturer of the transmission recommended.  He says, "use the mopar stuff, if it still rattles, I'll swap the tranny under warranty",......So, I got the mopar stuff, put it in, the rattle quieted down,.......seems mopar put additional stuff to make the tranny quiet down that is not the stuff the manufacturer used.  I also had another TPS replaced under warranty with the Jeep quite modified.

 

Either way, it shows that a heavily modified vehicle was going to get taken care of under warranty.

 

Now, in talking with the service manager, John,  at Garcia Moto concerning warranty replacements, he told me they had a s1000rr that had a blown engine get replaced under warranty.  Once they ran the computer history, he said it showed it hit over 17k RPM, yet BMW still replaced the engine, stating to me that this was the cause of engine failure.  I dunno, but, if'n that story is true, I don't think that a difference in oil will negate a warranty claim.

 

On the BMW car side, I had the valve cover gaskets replaced out of warranty as a good will gesture.  Just laid new concrete for a driveway, thought the leak was coming from an older vehcile that we had, no, the 545 was dripping.  Ended up writing BMWNA and the local dealer contacted me stating that they'd do a goodwill replacement.  Leak solved.  They never asked me for maintenance records.

 

 

Morning   Rougarou

 

It's quite simple "all the dealer has to say is no". How are you going to force them to say differently without legal assistance?  Most likely the motorcycle will be apart for inspection throughout the legal process. 

 

It might or might not be up to the manufacturer to prove what (was) done to the vehicle caused the failure but until it reaches a legal involvement the vehicle owner has no power.

  

But if the owner is using the incorrect spec oil that wouldn't be difficult for them to prove. The rider might be able to eventually win but at what cost in time & lack of motorcycle usage?

 

But as I mentioned above, as of yet, I haven't seen or heard of a lot of dealers or manufactures saying NO to reasonable warranty claims while still under warranty.  It's those just out of warranty "good will" (expensive) issues that don't fall under Magnusson-Moss that will be difficult to get assistance with without proper service documentation.  

[Rougarou]

True, they can say no, and before funding gets spent on a lawyer, go above the local dealer, hit regional, national, then corporate with a simple letter.  That's how I got the 545 leaky valve covers done.  Cost me about five minutes to shoot the note out with no expectation of correction, and about a month later, the dealer called me with the goodwill gesture.

 

The owner has lots of power, this is the age of social media and people get on board with a "just" cause against big corporations.  Just think of the traction one could get with a  hashtag of banbmwmotorrad on twitter, facebook, instagram and the like.

 

But, everyones reaction is different in how they pursue resolution.

 

I'll take my chances as the chances of engine/part failure is minute.

 

 

 

 

[Ponch]

On 6/29/2022 at 1:35 PM, Yuro said:

 

Steve:  

 

I'm using that LM from Beemer BY too.  Just changed yesterday.   It's same ratings as BMW synth oil and should be on an approved list somewhere, so should be fine. Save those receipts and document all your work.   Put it in a nice folder or something so you have it at trade-in.  Even BMW dealers will respect that when you come in to trade your bike...at least mine does.  

 

The only issue is warranty.  If you took it to the dealer for every service and something goes wrong, there will be no hassle.  If you do things on your own, you may have to stand up for yourself, but, so long as no aftermarket parts are involved or inferior oils or filters, they should honor the warranty.   ...If the BMW Zone Rep can find a legitimate reason for denial, he will deny.... 

 

....I was about 20 miles into a trip to Missouri one blustery Fall day, leading a group of 5 riders out of the Western suburbs of Chicago.   We took a little side road with some interesting curves.  I went first around one and there was a pavement cut-out all the way across the road just after.  It had been filled with sand but there was a nasty storm the night before, all the sand had washed out leaving a sharp curbing down into the 3" deep cutout and another sharp curb up.  It didn't look that bad really.   I braked hard for it and went into it at a reasonable speed but my paralever broke into 3 pieces.  The rear wheel was no longer supported by suspension and dropped into the rear plastic fender of my '05 RT.  

 

I thought surely this would be covered.  The bike had under 4K miles on it.  I called BMW roadside.   They didn't have my VIN number in their system and refused service. (Dealer had apparently not filled out the form correctly.)  I called Progressive and they were great.   My wife came out in the car and picked me up after the tow guy put my bike on a flatbed with help from me.    The bike did not go down, it just had no rear suspension.    

 

The Zone Rep inspected the bike and the claim and denied it because I had a brand-new Wilburs suspension on the bike.   It could have contributed to the issue, so they denied the claim.   Progressive paid it as a "road hazard" claim.   I had to pay deductable and a little extra mileage for the tow, but Progressive picked up the rest.  

 

Just showing this as an example of how BMW warranties work in real life.  

 

Porsche has denied expensive claims on failed ABS units because there was ATE Super Blue Dot 4 brake fluid in the system and it's not the prescribed fluid...and it's the WRONG COLOR.  They are legally correct.  I can't  prove that the blue brake fluid had no effect on the failure and it's definitely not the stock fluid.    ATE makes the same fluid in clear.  Use that instead and no problem.   This didn't happen to me, but to a track-day friend.   I will never use Super Blue or any  colored brake fluid in my cars or bikes after hearing about this incident.  

 

If you have aftermarket brake pads and your transmission goes, I don't think anyone can or would try to deny coverage of the trans.  It's not legal to do that.  There has to be cause and effect.   But if the stock fluid in the trans is clear or amber and they find red oil in your trans, well, you may have a problem.   They won't go to extremes to dig for things, but something like wrong-colored fluid or non-BMW shocks is pretty obvious.  

 

Yes, you can try to fight city hall on claims like this, but you'll likely just spend a lot of money and time making yourself angry with not much joy from BMW.  

 

 

 

It's more fun to make videos about BMW's asshattery. 

[Ponch]

If it's under warranty it's easy just to use the recommended oil and filter. There's no quibble if something goes wrong that can be related. I have a 2020 Challenger RT Scat Pack 1320 that I got earlier this year. There's only three oils that meet their specs that I know of and the one they recommend is Pennzoil ultra premium 0w-40. It even has SRT on the container and it's not expensive and neither is the mopar oil filter. Considering some of these cars can have cam issues, I might as well stick to the script. I even shorten the mileage a bit, every 5k miles or 6 months. With my old RT, I use mobil 1 15w-50, although I haven't seen it in a bit on the store shelves. 

[Skywagon]

3 hours ago, Rougarou said:

I'm just wondering when these engines or parts will fail due to using Rotella

Heck it’s probably as good or better than recommended oil. That isn’t the issue. The issue is there a chance BMW might deny a claim during the warranty period. A warranty problem is unlikely, but if you have one the last thing I want to do is have the bike hostage/torn down and spend $1000/hour on legal fees to prove I’m right and BMW was dodging warranty. If you win your claim it doesn’t mean you get your legal fees back.  My 2014 was a victim of the shock recall. BMW treated and compensated me well, but I was without my brand new bike for ~ 5 months. I asked about putting Wilbur’s on temporarily. BMWNA said if you do you are on your own for future warranty related to suspension.. so I waited. They fixed the bike and gave me $2500

[Rougarou]

Don’t  fear the “chances”.

[Dave_in_TX]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:09 AM, TSConver said:

 

MA2 is the important one if you want the wet clutch to survive.

And API is the important one if you are concerned about your engine. You need to consider both.

[Dave_in_TX]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:09 AM, TSConver said:

 

MA2 is the important one if you want the wet clutch to survive.

And the API specs is the important one if you want your engine to survive.

They are both important.

[JCtx]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:30 AM, AZgman said:

On sale, Castrol Power 1 5w-40 oil that meets all BMW specs is $6/qt. Just sayin'

Man, that's a steal; where can you get it at that price? That's the oil I use (and what BMW calls for), and have always bought it at Amazon for $53, which is still pretty cheap compared to other places, but almost $9. If I could get it for $6, I'd stock up for a year or two. I only need 1 quart for another oil change, but just did it for this year. And no way I'd use a diesel engine on my motorcycle with a wet clutch, even if free, but to each his own, I guess. I like saving money too, but only when it's the right product, like for example the Mahle filter identical to the OEM (thru BeemerBoneYard), at a substantial discount. And will get the air filter from them too.

[Ponch]

On 10/31/2022 at 3:54 PM, Dave_in_TX said:

And API is the important one if you are concerned about your engine. You need to consider both.

 

Some manufacturers go beyond that with their own standard. The technical specs for my challenger are FCA Material Standard MS-12633, whatever that is. Basically 2 companies make oils in 0w-40 that meet it: Pennzoil and Valvoline.  The manual recommends Pennzoil and the bottles even have SRT on them. In terms of BMW, at the very least it should meet the API and weight specs and with a wet clutch probably JASO. If it's under warranty, BMW oil won't cause pushback, but YMMV. It's not my money. 

[c10]

never mind 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by c10
not worth my time