Experienced riders VS posers

[Ralph]

I know it is not funny to crash your bike. Been there, done that, but this guy really needs to learn control before he hits the streets again.

www-scf.usc.edu/~itsara/learntoride.wmv

[GelStra]

OK, I ain't sayin' NOTHING! Somebody here might get mad and leave the board!

( ROFLMAO! )

[lawnchairboy]

NICE

[Firefight911]

Laughing! Laughing harder! Oh, now ROFLMAO!

[Francois_Dumas]

Did he say 'Ouch !!' ????

[Carnadero]

www-scf.usc.edu/~itsara/learntoride.wmv

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Sad, so sad.

 

You can see variations on the theme at almost any bike night.

 

I wouldn't call him a poser, unskilled, yeah. At least he was wearing some protective gear.

[GelStra]

At least he was wearing some protective gear.

What, his gut is HD's new Airbag??

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Chest protector, dontcha know.

[WeirdHarold]

 

Ouch!

 

I don't think it's funny.

 

Why do we laugh when people get hurt?

 

 

Don

[Shawnee Bill]

Moved that car a couple of feet.

 

I have a friend that got himself a "FatBoy" recently, we watched him ride it out of the parking lot one evening, sure reminded me of that video except he didn't hit anything. Scary.

[ESokoloff]

Ouch!

 

I don't think it's funny.

 

Why do we laugh when people get hurt?

 

 

Don

 

I agree with your position.

I derive no pleasure in witnessing the misfortunes of others.

[Chugger]

Stupid is, is stupid does!

 

Forest Gump

[leikam]

I think what's most disturbing to me about that video is the laugh track.

[WeirdHarold]

I think what's most disturbing to me about that video is the laugh track.

 

I agree.

 

 

 

Don

[YesMan]

Moved that car a couple of feet.

 

Thats what surprised me!

[upflying]

Moved that car a couple of feet.

 

Thats what surprised me!

 

Lets see, 300 lb "rider", 850 lb motorcycle, 20 mph of energy vs a compact car that is light on the rear? Yup, simple laws of physics.

[Ralph]

Whats worse is, he spent all that money on the bike & wears an El-Cheapo helmet (that may protect him if he falls from the sky vertically) and no type of skin protection. Dealers should require all purchasers of bikes to have some type of rider training before they walk out the door. Not only to keep this kind of thing from happening, but to protect every one else out there.

[GelStra]

Dealers should require all purchasers of bikes to have some type of rider training before they walk out the door.

2 words: Repeat Customer

[Jerry_75_Guy]

Whats worse is, he spent all that money on the bike & wears an El-Cheapo helmet (that may protect him if he falls from the sky vertically) and no type of skin protection.

 

Probably not even then.

 

Dealers should require all purchasers of bikes to have some type of rider training before they walk out the door...

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Maybe it's my cynical nature, but I fear that if an initiative aimed towards this end were attempted, certain voices would object that this would be an infringement of their rights.

 

On the whole, I'd probably have gotten more of a chuckle out of the video if we'd seen this guy stand back up after the impact, but since there's a good chance that he, or someone he knew, sent the video in to AFV, I'm assuming/hoping he was fine beyond the bruised ego and wallet.

[leikam]

Dealers should require all purchasers of bikes to have some type of rider training before they walk out the door.

 

There is already a legal requirement that a rider be licensed before riding on the street. Shall we make everybody who works at a motorcycle shop into a peace officer so they can enforce the law too?

[tallman]

Dealers should require all purchasers of bikes to have some type of rider training before they walk out the door.

 

There is already a legal requirement that a rider be licensed before riding on the street. Shall we make everybody who works at a motorcycle shop into a peace officer so they can enforce the law too?

 

Thank you, Michael.

Last time this issue was raised should've been the last time.

Grocery stores sell raw meat/chicken/fish and some people prepare and serve the meal with the same utensils. (Salmonella, etc...)

Should all checkout lanes have a food safety checkpoint?

Come on, enough is enough.

The dealership prepares the bike for delivery, assumes responsibility for that.

Goes over operation of the machine and the accessories available.

Demonstrates proper techniques for use of side/centerstands.

Offers discounts on safety gear. Offers information about rider training classes.

Checks that the operator is licensed by the state to operate that type of vehicle.

From that point on it's the rider's responsibility.

Just sold a K1200 S to a rider who came over 2 up on his V-Rod. He rode the K and she rode the V-Rod. It was obvious there was a lack of familiarity and experience with it on her part.

They had a 150 mile trip home.

Who's responsible for her safety?

Although I was concerned, I had no legal standing to interfere and I'm sure that the husband knew even better what the situation was.

Where is the line to be drawn?

Best wishes.

[Ron_B]

Dealers should require all purchasers of bikes to have some type of rider training before they walk out the door. Not only to keep this kind of thing from happening, but to protect every one else out there.

 

Sad, so sad. It reminded me of Tony M's post a while back.

[steveknapp]

There are people who would prefer they just don't sell bikes at all. Too dangerous they say.

 

Who's judgement should I live by? I like to use my own, thankyouverymuch.

[Jerry_75_Guy]

Sad, so sad. It reminded me of Tony M's post a while back.

 

Thanks for finding that Ron; it was originally posted slightly before my time here (don't remember reading it before).

[WeirdHarold]

Sad, so sad. It reminded me of Tony M's post a while back.

I remember that. We didn't find anything to laugh about then.

 

Don

[DiggerJim]

I don't think it's funny.

 

Why do we laugh when people get hurt?

 

We don't know he's hurt. I've dropped a 650lb bike on myself before without hurting anything but my pride (& I'm half that guy's size). It's entirely possible (probably even) that his 800+ lb bike suffered the damage here. I've seen it happen - 12 years as an EMT on an ambulance.

 

Taken in its context there's no reason to judge anyone for having the same reaction they'd have watching the clown car at the circus hit something and spill clowns out all over the ring.

 

Jim

[rfc1992]

There is already a legal requirement that a rider be licensed before riding on the street.

 

True to an extent; in GA, only a successful written test is req'd for you temp permit. This makes a lot of dealers nervous.

 

This guy... I admit feeling sorry for him. Although the situation is humourous on its face, the guy had an extreme lack of knowledge. This is ignorance in action, not necessarily outright stupidity (the former can be cured, the latter is forever).

 

Unfortunately, this is a case of more dollars than sense. He sought the end vision without planning. If I came to this board saying a K1200S was my first bike and I just took delivery, what would be your reaction?

 

I hope he has a lesson learned here and becomes a good rider. Too often people that start off this way leave riding saying that it is too dangerous - this does nothing for our motorcycling interests.

[Pilgrim]

Ouch!

 

I don't think it's funny.

 

Why do we laugh when people get hurt?

 

 

Don

 

Because all humor has its roots in pain.

Pilgrim

[bendbill]

"Because all humor has its roots in pain."

 

--Pilgrim

 

Historians and theorists of comedy agree with Pilgrim's sentence. The reflex of slapstick is glee at watching pratfalls due to stupidity--provided no real suffering occured. Honda says, "Stupid hurts." The comic theorist adds, "And makes us laugh"

 

From the birth of modern comedy with the Romans [ yep, the Romans ] to the great works of the 18th and 19th century, the comic spirit satirizes especially the imposter or poser. Another favorite butt is the phony swaggering soldier, not the real soldier, but the pretend bad boy. Such types have ALWAYS been "proper objects of derision," to quote one of the leading writers of comedy. When the poser or the swaggerer fall down/go boom, most thinking people laugh.

 

Those who don't think the video funny may prefer the tragic spirit. One of our board members even sums up the distinction with Walpole's phrase, "Life is a tragedy to those who feel, a comedy to those who think."

 

Hmmm, something too hijack-y. End of lit-lecture. I'll go sleep now.

[Ralph]

Dealers should require all purchasers of bikes to have some type of rider training before they walk out the door.

 

There is already a legal requirement that a rider be licensed before riding on the street. Shall we make everybody who works at a motorcycle shop into a peace officer so they can enforce the law too?

 

NO, but hey should have to show a bit of documentation from a msf class or something! Just because you can maneuver a bike around a few cones & answer a few questions does not mean you can Ride a motorcycle. Kinda like operating a car. A dangerous weapon in the hands of some. All I meant was to instruct the potential buyer before he hits the streets. And maybe another rider!

Anyway. just my opinion!

[tallman]

Ralph,

Remember that in our society there is always the question of liability.

To require motor vehicle dealers to provide driver training is opening a door that leads to a very slippery slope.

Who trains the trainers?

Who licenses and inspects them?

Who pays for this?

I can almost guarantee that retail dealerships would be unable to obtain or afford liability insurance for this.

We'd see fewer retailers.

It would then open the manufacturer to legal action, much as the gun industry has seen.

There's more than one lawyer out there that would love a shot at the dealership/manufacturer because their client was injured on a motorcycle.

As we've seen on this board, training, experience, ATGATT, etc... does not always prevent problems.

 

We have bigger problems in society.

How about Drive through alcohol sales venues?

[DewNMoon]

At least he was wearing some protective gear.

What, his gut is HD's new Airbag??

 

No Hardley Davis' airbag uses "potato potato" exhaust pulses to inflate during a crash. They just haven't perfected it yet.

[Ken H.]

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't think it's funny.

 

Why do we laugh when people get hurt?

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

We don't know he's hurt.

Oh you're splitting hairs.

 

Fine, I'll re-phrase the question - Why do you find it appropriate to laugh at other people's misfortune?

[YamadogR1]

Thats OK, I was informed by a guy I met Saturday over at the local BMW store that the dealer in Jacksonville, NC sold a guy a ZX14 as his first bike. He didn't even make it out of the parking lot before he wrecked it. It is probably for his own good and everybody else on the road that he dumped it. Total lack of responsibility on the riders and the dealers part.

[leikam]

Personally, I'd like to see tiered licensing based on substantial training here in the US so that a 16 year old with no riding experience can't (legally) ride a liter bike home from the shop. That's a tragedy (or comedy if you prefer) waiting to happen. Training and experience are good things.

 

I just don't think the dealer is the right one to ensure that the rider's skills/judgement are basically adequate given a particular bike. Give that responsibility to somebody with no financial interest in pleasing the customer.

[Francois_Dumas]

I'm not a US citizen of course, but it somehow does not seem logical to let a retailer be responsible for whether or not a customer can handle the goods he purchases.

 

Firstly it is a conflict of interests of course (although a good dealer will understand that it doesn't help him to sell an LT to a 10-year old, as a figure of speech).

And secondly you can't expect a dealer to act as a police officer and refuse a customer to leave his parking lot on hos newly acquired bike?

 

Since these people head out onto the public streets it is clearly the task of the government to see to proper education, licensing and enforcement.

 

Simple if you're used to it already.... probably a revolutionary thought for the US <grin>.

[YamadogR1]

I agree that the dealer is not responsible but I believe that you have the responsiblity as a dealer to let someone know what they are getting into and that a supesport bike is a poor choice for anyone to have as a first bike. If after you explain that the coustomer insists that that is what he truly wants then you have done your best as a responsible and considerate human being. By the way Jacksonville is a small community and in the long run this will do more to hurt the dealer than the short term profit he saw as a result of the sale. I ride a liter bike on the street and the track and until you ride one it is hard to explain to a novice or even experienced riders what a truly wicked piece of machinery they can be. I am not scared of it but I have deep respect for it.

[russell_bynum]

Personally, I'd like to see tiered licensing based on substantial training here in the US so that a 16 year old with no riding experience can't (legally) ride a liter bike home from the shop. That's a tragedy (or comedy if you prefer) waiting to happen. Training and experience are good things.

 

I just don't think the dealer is the right one to ensure that the rider's skills/judgement are basically adequate given a particular bike. Give that responsibility to somebody with no financial interest in pleasing the customer.

 

I agree.

 

With our current system, I would like to see the dealers at least ask to see that the buyer has a valid motorcycle license or learner's permit if they're buying a street-legal motorcycle.

 

Nobody has ever asked to see my license before I buy a bike.

[WeirdHarold]

Since these people head out onto the public streets it is clearly the task of the government to see to proper education, licensing and enforcement.

Oh, so maybe the government should take up the task of selling motorcycles, in order to protect people from their own excesses, like they do with alcoholic beverages in Scandanavian countries.

 

 

 

Don

[leikam]

Nobody has ever asked to see my license before I buy a bike.

 

I think an equivalent test would be to hand the buyer the keys and give no hints about how to make it go.

 

But I suspect that they don't ask because they don't want to deal with the situation where the person who just financed $10k at 9% isn't licensed. It's that conflict of interest again.

 

Do you tell the guy who put down $30k on his dream Harley that he can't ride it home? Delivering it to his house removes the accident from your doorstep, but doesn't improve his riding ability. Telling him to come back when he has a license is going to piss him off and probably lose you the sale. Nobody with their wallet out wants to hear what they can't do.

[russell_bynum]

I think an equivalent test would be to hand the buyer the keys and give no hints about how to make it go.

 

Yeah, I know...but at least we'd ensure that they have a license....which shows that they've at least thought about it.

 

Do you tell the guy who put down $30k on his dream Harley that he can't ride it home? Delivering it to his house removes the accident from your doorstep, but doesn't improve his riding ability. Telling him to come back when he has a license is going to piss him off and probably lose you the sale. Nobody with their wallet out wants to hear what they can't do.

 

Well, again...if we make that the law, then you don't lose a sale to some other dealership because all dealerships have to do it.

[Boffin]

[i agree.

 

With our current system, I would like to see the dealers at least ask to see that the buyer has a valid motorcycle license or learner's permit if they're buying a street-legal motorcycle.

 

Nobody has ever asked to see my license before I buy a bike.

 

Here in the UK with staged licensing system where a buyer may be licensed to ride a 50cc moped (16 year olds) 125cc 11Kw bike, or a 25KW bike or an unlimited bike I too have never been asked to show a license.

 

However, the dealer (or private seller) must pass on the details of the transfer of ownership to the govt department responsible for driver and vehicle licensing and to get the annual road-fund licence (very roughly equivalent to your registration) you need to show your compulsory insurance (liability). The Insurance companies do ask about your licence, which effectively polices the system.

 

If the vehicle is for off-road use, or is not in use at renewal time, then a declaration to that effect must also be made - with an automatic £80 penalty (reduced to £40 if you pay without a court appearance) if you fail or forget.

 

Andy

[steveknapp]

I agree that the dealer is not responsible but I believe that you have the responsiblity as a dealer to let someone know what they are getting into and that a supesport bike is a poor choice for anyone to have as a first bike.

 

You assume they don't? I've been around my local UJM dealer when they did just that. But honestly, they sell what people want to buy. Many people are drawn to bikes based on appearance. If they can't get the "good one" why bother at all.

 

Also remember that the manufacturers are supporters of MSF. Most if not all offer rebates for the course fees. Honda runs dozens of ads about motorcycle safety. Heck, H-D has their own course, most dealers offer it. So the classic "I can't get into an MSF course" isn't a good reason there.

 

I must admit, I bought my first bike used and a friend rode it home for me. He then taught me to ride on smaller streets and the local DMV's test course. We rode together in situations that weren't challenging. Miles and miles of fun riding with an experienced rider before I went alone. Routes and traffic were always considerations...

 

He's now an MSF instructor. And we both agree that a weekend in a parking lot gives you the basics but isn't enough to ride any bike anywhere.

 

So I'm curious. For all those who look to the dealers to be the judge. Or expect the DMV or MSF to qualify riders. How many have mentored a new rider? Had a friend who just bought a bike. Taken the time to advise. Taken the time to go for a few rides with them.

 

"Hey, new bike, nice, let's go for a ride, I know this great coffee shop, let's go Saturday early" = New eh? I know a very mellow route, let's go when there's no traffic. Discuss the ride over coffee. Then ride home. You'll learn something, and get some miles under your belt.

 

Instead of pointing the finger around, why not do something to help?

[leikam]

Ah, I missed the part about making it the law. That's critical.

[lawnchairboy]

"Hey, new bike, nice, let's go for a ride, I know this great coffee shop, let's go Saturday early" = New eh? I know a very mellow route, let's go when there's no traffic. Discuss the ride over coffee. Then ride home. You'll learn something, and get some miles under your belt.

 

 

That is the approach I try to take...

[Chugger]

Good old America ! Lawyers, lawyers, Why is it everybody pointing the finger at the DMV, Government, Dealers etc. There is only one person to blame. The yo yo on the bike.

Sorry but everybody should be accountable for there own actions. So I will have to laugh and be thankful his actions didn't hurt anybody but himself.

[Calvin (no socks)]

Ralph, another angle...

I started hunting at a young age...Start small and work your way up to a Bear...Not a Bear the first time out...

Handle the gun like its always loaded and Always be aware which way the muzzle is pointed...

It's a good thing he didn't buy a $39,000 High Powered rifle... Instructions on box..."Point in a safe direction before discharging"... Perfectly legal in most states..No instruction required...

Why buy a BB gun when I can have a Howitzer!

"It wasn"t my fault".....Legal system help me.......protect me from myself....

[steveknapp]

I started hunting at a young age...

 

Did you start on your own? Or with your parents or friends?

[Ralph]

My goodness. I guess I was misunderstood. Or I did not make myself clear on the point! What I meant was..... Here it goes......are you ready?.....Everyone wishing to purchase a motorcycle (that is after they have the MC license that is) must take and pass an Motorcycle safety class before he/she could actually purchases the bike for themselves to ride. What? Bike for someone else? Then sign a waver & make the person that is going to tag it show the MSF class results. I don't know, just seems like a good idea to me. BMW actually reimbursed me for a refresher class I took 3 or so years ago.