Ignition switch Problem

[Riverside]

Hello All,

Thank you in advance for any input you can provide. I have a problem with my 2004 R1150R ignition switch. When I turn it to the ON position it briefly flashes on then goes off. If I back it up slightly it will come on and the bike will start normally. If I trun the key a very small increment to the right it shuts down again. I can also duplicate this by pushing on the bottom of the plastic switch housing's right side. it started after a prolonged period of sitting in the garge during the rainy season here in Costa Rica coupled with a knee soreness, possibly also a result of the rainy season in CR.  After some research, I am leaning towards it being a faulty switch unit. Having said that I have several questions for those of you more knowledgable that me about such things.

1. Is my diagnosis the likely cause of the problem, or could this be caused by some other defect in the key system? I have a chance to get a new switch brought in to the country in someone's luggage in a couple of weeks, but don't want to do that to find out it is something else.

2. I got some information from an earlier post regarding an R1150RT with a damaged key unit that had photos of the key lock, switch unit and the removal of the switch, from a while ago that was very helpful in showing me the removal of the switch. However, the discussion and photos showed a set screw holding in the plastic switch unit and mine does not appear to have  screw, but rather something that looks like a compression pin. The attached photo is not great, but definately does not show a set screw as was shown in the older post. Inless there is a very small screw inside the metal tube. I have seen other posts that require drilling out the set pin and am assuming this is the case with my particular bike.

3. It appears that the screw/pin can be removed by taking the sport windshield bracket off the right side. Is this a reasonable assumption or must I remove the upper fork yoke and do the work on the bench and replace the yoke?

[dirtrider]

18 hours ago, Riverside said:

Hello All,

Thank you in advance for any input you can provide. I have a problem with my 2004 R1150R ignition switch. When I turn it to the ON position it briefly flashes on then goes off. If I back it up slightly it will come on and the bike will start normally. If I trun the key a very small increment to the right it shuts down again. I can also duplicate this by pushing on the bottom of the plastic switch housing's right side. it started after a prolonged period of sitting in the garge during the rainy season here in Costa Rica coupled with a knee soreness, possibly also a result of the rainy season in CR.  After some research, I am leaning towards it being a faulty switch unit. Having said that I have several questions for those of you more knowledgable that me about such things.

1. Is my diagnosis the likely cause of the problem, or could this be caused by some other defect in the key system? I have a chance to get a new switch brought in to the country in someone's luggage in a couple of weeks, but don't want to do that to find out it is something else.

2. I got some information from an earlier post regarding an R1150RT with a damaged key unit that had photos of the key lock, switch unit and the removal of the switch, from a while ago that was very helpful in showing me the removal of the switch. However, the discussion and photos showed a set screw holding in the plastic switch unit and mine does not appear to have  screw, but rather something that looks like a compression pin. The attached photo is not great, but definately does not show a set screw as was shown in the older post. Inless there is a very small screw inside the metal tube. I have seen other posts that require drilling out the set pin and am assuming this is the case with my particular bike.

3. It appears that the screw/pin can be removed by taking the sport windshield bracket off the right side. Is this a reasonable assumption or must I remove the upper fork yoke and do the work on the bench and replace the yoke?

 

Morning Bob

 

I can't tell much from the picture as it is too blurry to have decent detail.

 

It is supposed to have a very small set screw under some red sealer. I do see signs of the old red sealer but can't tell much else from the picture.

 

Someone might have stripped the set screw at one time so just drove a roll pin in to hold the switch in, or possibly some requirement in your country that requires a more permanent switch retention. 

 

Use something (like a dental pick) or sharp wire to remove anything soft & sealer like in that retention screw hole then see if you can post a clear picture.

 

If it is a roll pin in that hole instead of a small set screw then you will probably have to remove the entire upper triple tree to work on it to get that darn pin out. (again, thoroughly pick ALL the junk out of that hole then post a very clear picture of what you are working with).

 

It does sound like you have a failing ignition switch by the way you state that you back the key up slightly before it will power up properly. But that is something the person actually working on the motorcycle will have to determine by hands-on testing. 

 

 

 

 

[Riverside]

Hi Dirtrider,

Thanks for responding. Your input and photos in an earlier post were what I was refering to in this inquirey. You're talking to the person actually working on the motorcycle. Been playing with wrenches for a long time. Normally I would take an electrical problem I have not encountered before to someone more experienced, but the dealer is a 4 hour run to San Jose. Not anxious to get halfway there when it gives it up completely.  

 

It's a US delivered bike that I have had since 2013. It came to me with the original 5700 miles so the switch retension is OEM. I removed the red sealer to see if it was a set screw or a roll pin holding the switch in place. Other input told me it could be either. As luck would have it the roll pin is there.

 

I tried several times for a better photo, but, the phone doesn't take a clear photo. (Can't seem to turn off the flash but will work on that.)

 

If it needs to be drilled out I think I can do that if I remove the metal bracket holding the sport windscreen..... and maybe headlight. Right now I am more concerned about getting the diagnosis right. Hate to spend the $260 for a new ignition switch to find out the key mechanism is the problem.

 

Any other tests I can try to rule out other possibilties?

[dirtrider]

Morning Bob

 

It does sound like the switch is bad but you won't really know until you either try a new switch plugged in (don't even need to remove existing switch just to test new switch operation).

 

Or remove your switch, try to disassemble it, then clean it out & inspect the insides. 

 

If it has some sort of a roll pin?????_  then you can try drilling that pin out with the switch assembly still in the motorcycle but you need to be very careful to drill exactly straight so as to not enlarge or alter the pin hole.  

 

You also have to be very careful to not expand that pin while trying to remove it,  or it could  make proper installation of the new switch very difficult.

 

You might try using a tap that is just VERY SLIGHTLY larger than the pin's center hole. Put a proper fitting nut on the tap first then slide on a slightly larger nut (or piece of pipe or tube). Then screw that tap in JUST far enough to bite into the pin, then tighten the nut to see if will pull the pin out.   

[Riverside]

Morning Dirtrider,

I managed to turn off the phone's flash and get a better photo of the set screw hole.  Good news! What I thought was a roll pin now looks like simply clean metal surrounding the hole. if you enlarge the photo you can see what looks like threads and (might be my imagination) a screw slot. Now, looking for a short jewelers screw driver to test that theory.

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Riverside said:

Morning Dirtrider,

I managed to turn off the phone's flash and get a better photo of the set screw hole.  Good news! What I thought was a roll pin now looks like simply clean metal surrounding the hole. if you enlarge the photo you can see what looks like threads and (might be my imagination) a screw slot. Now, looking for a short jewelers screw driver to test that theory.

 

Morning Bob

 

That is just what the little slotted screw looks like down in the threaded hole. (also why you need to clean the hole out to get a good look in there)

 

Careful that you don't strip the screw slot (easy to do if screw is stuck), otherwise once screw is removed the switch should drop out the bottom. 

 

 

[Riverside]

BMW Motorad.... such a love hate relationship. Can't turn the screw with the tools I have in the position it is in. Would putting the set screw a few degrees more around the circumference been such a hard thing to do????? Have to remove the windscreen/headlight brackets to get a straight shot at the screw head. The upper bracket fastener is a bolt that you can't get a wrench or socket on. It appears it was replaced as all the others are allen key and not hex head. Guess I will be grinding a socket or wrench to remove it. Will let you know how I make out. Thank you for the input.

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Riverside said:

BMW Motorad.... such a love hate relationship. Can't turn the screw with the tools I have in the position it is in. Would putting the set screw a few degrees more around the circumference been such a hard thing to do????? Have to remove the windscreen/headlight brackets to get a straight shot at the screw head. The upper bracket fastener is a bolt that you can't get a wrench or socket on. It appears it was replaced as all the others are allen key and not hex head. Guess I will be grinding a socket or wrench to remove it. Will let you know how I make out. Thank you for the input.

Morning Bob

 

Can you remove the handle from your little screwdriver, then bend the metal shank part to 90° so it is very short with just enough length to get into the screw hole?

 

Thinks like this are not designed or built for service, they are designed for ease of assembly at the initial assembly level. 

[Riverside]

I removed the headlight bracket instead. More bolts than I thought at first, but with patience I managed to get the switch out. Turning it off and on with a screwdriver I can put it over center and the power goes off. I'm guessing since we have very humid weather here the problem may be a corroded contact inside plastic switch. You every open one up? It doesn't look like something made to be disassembled. Concern would be getting it open and having springs and stuff fly all over the place. But, it is not working right now so really don't have much to lose.

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, Riverside said:

I removed the headlight bracket instead. More bolts than I thought at first, but with patience I managed to get the switch out. Turning it off and on with a screwdriver I can put it over center and the power goes off. I'm guessing since we have very humid weather here the problem may be a corroded contact inside plastic switch. You every open one up? It doesn't look like something made to be disassembled. Concern would be getting it open and having springs and stuff fly all over the place. But, it is not working right now so really don't have much to lose.

Afternoon Bob

 

Be careful in taking that switch apart as there are (if I remember correctly) 4 little spring in there that can take off for the unknown. Get it ready to come apart then dissemble inside a plastic baggie.

[Riverside]

Great idea using a baggie. Wish I'd have thought of that several times in the past. Would have saved more than a little frustration. I have a couple of calls to make first to see if I can get a new switch. Escondido, CA BMW was where the bike was serviced for several years before moving to Costa Rica, and they have been very helpful in the past. And a Beemer friend of mine since our Army days recommended calling Tom at RubberChickenRacing whom he thinks might have some experience with this problem. Let you know what happens.

[Hosstage]

An old school though, but can it be hotwired, just a simple toggle switch wired in to bypass the keyed switch? Or is this a much more complicated system with a chip in the key, or some such? Just trying to think of a way to ride it without worrying about the switch failing until a new one can be had.

[Riverside]

Hi Hosstage,

Have a couple of leads on the switch right now. Challange is getting it to Costa Rica resonably. I will put a toggle switch in as a temorary fix once I confirm a new one is coming. Not cutting the wire till I know I can get a switch to replace the malfunctioning one. If I can't get on soon, might try repairing the contact problem inside the plastic housing till I can get one. That doesn't work... then cut the wire.

[dirtrider]

58 minutes ago, Riverside said:

Hi Hosstage,

Have a couple of leads on the switch right now. Challange is getting it to Costa Rica resonably. I will put a toggle switch in as a temorary fix once I confirm a new one is coming. Not cutting the wire till I know I can get a switch to replace the malfunctioning one. If I can't get on soon, might try repairing the contact problem inside the plastic housing till I can get one. That doesn't work... then cut the wire.

Evening Bob

 

Just keep in mind that the ignition switch does more than just a simple on/off, with switch ON 12v comes out of the ign switch, then goes back into the switch on another terminal only to come out again on yet another terminal  to run some of the lighting.  

 

 

[Riverside]

Good morning,

Just following up to let everyone know that I got the new switch and did the transplant on Maxine about a month or so ago. I had called Tom at Rubber Chicken Racing whom I was told knew stuff. He does, but, not specifically about odd switch problems. He did, however listen to my problem and agreed with my diagnosis. And, he was able to track down a new switch, get it drop shipped to a friend in Houston, to smuggle into Costa Rica two weeks later. FedEx overnight service only took 6 days to get there. (Remember the winter problem in Texas back then.)

Disassembly was a nightmare of the normal BMW sort. Getting to the set-screw to remove the switch meant taking off the windshield, headlight and headlight bracket. Nothing on a Beemer is easy to get to. 

The new switch did the trick and Maxine is back to being a Road Warrior. Since I had the old one out I decide to dissassemble it and see what caused the failure. I actually couldn't find anything obvious. here are some cautions for anyone who decides the expensive replacement method is not acceptable and wants to repair the switch. There are three springs in the assembly two smaller ones and one slightly longer. The two small ones go into holes in the upper plastic housing and the longer one goes somewhere else. I found it on the workbench after opening the case, but found no obvious location for it. If you go this route, pay real close attention during dissassembly. I did determine one of the small springs was broken. These springs appear to put pressure on the metal contacts and may have contributed to the problem. Can't really say. The photo will give you an idea of what the inside looks like. The section with the cable is the bottom of the switch with the contact plates. They looked fine. The small springs go in the left and right holes at the 1 o'clock position of the upper housing. The small Y shaped part is the piece that makes contact with the pads and goes on top of the small springs. The brass circle goes on top of the Y shaped part for it to glide on I think. Not sure where the U shaped brass part or the longer spring came from.  If you decide to take it apart to repair you will need to be more carefull than I was. But then Maxine was already back on the road.

Thank you all who provided technical and moral support. We ride finicky German machines and can use all of that we can get. Remember, Shiney side up!