02 R1150R final drive pivot bearing

[jeffyjeff]

Had the swing arm and final drive out of my '02 R1150R recently during a clutch replacement.  On inspection, I noticed that the final drive pivot pin bearings were damaged.  The rollers and cage were glued in place by original equipment 19 year old hardened grease.  I flooded the bearing with WD-40, and dissolved the petrified grease.  The removable race showed signs that the rollers have brinelled into the race, and when cleaned and dry, the bearing action is rough and notchy.  

 

Damage to the race is apparent.  Unfortunately, the video I took of the notchy bearing action is too large to upload.  I see that EME has an alternative "upgrade" available in the form of a bushing that can be externally lubricated.    Does anyone here have experience with this mod?  I like the idea, and the EME replacement is half the cost of the OE bearing.  Comments?

Final Drive to Swing Arm Bearing Upgrade Kit BMW K Bike, Oilhead; 33 17 2 335 118, 33 17 2 311 091 / EnDuraLast (euromotoelectrics.com)

 

 

[Uncle Mike]

I just happened to watch a Youtube video on that bearing replacement this morning.  I don't know what the long term prognosis is but it sounds like a better way to go as far as cost. 

 

 

[Joe Coastie]

I installed the Emerald Isle bushings in my '98 RT.

Had a long conversation with Mr. Porter about them.

Install them the same as the factory bearings.

Been 2 years now, use moly grease if you decide to go with them.

[jeffyjeff]

Can I just drive the old bearing out with a socket on an extension?  

Will I need to heat the casting first, and if so, will that affect the pinion seal or any other parts in the final drive?

[dirtrider]

17 minutes ago, jeffyjeff said:

Can I just drive the old bearing out with a socket on an extension?  

Will I need to heat the casting first, and if so, will that affect the pinion seal or any other parts in the final drive?

Morning  jeffyjeff

 

You can drive them out cold but personally I heat the drive casting to just hot enough that I can't hold my hand on the drive ears for long. 

 

Same with re-installation, just hot enough to prevent keeping hand on drive ears, THEN install new bearing's.  I usually don't drive new bearings in but use machined cups with treaded rod through the cups & bearing to evenly pull the new bearings into place.   (if you look closely at someone driving in the bearings you will usually see them starting into place cocked or crooked) 

[jeffyjeff]

I do not have machined cups, but I thought that using a piece of all thread and nuts with a pair of stout fender washers, maybe even doubled up, and a manual speed handle would pull in the bearing evenly.

[BamaJohn]

I used to install boat's cutless bearings in stern tubes/struts at the shipyard and freezing the bearing first always helped ease them into place.   Getting them OUT is another issue altogether.

[szurszewski]

22 hours ago, jeffyjeff said:

I do not have machined cups, but I thought that using a piece of all thread and nuts with a pair of stout fender washers, maybe even doubled up, and a manual speed handle would pull in the bearing evenly.

 

As an alternative to fender washers, if you can find a socket that just slightly undersized from the bearing (and of course large enough to pass your threaded rod through) it will work well as a press.

[jeffyjeff]

20 hours ago, BamaJohn said:

I used to install boat's cutless bearings in stern tubes/struts at the shipyard and freezing the bearing first always helped ease them into place.   Getting them OUT is another issue altogether.

 

Thanks, BamaJohn.  I was thinking: what about packing the bushing in dry ice prior to installation?  Don't know if -109 F qualifies as a cryogenic temperature, but sure to shrink the bushing down more than a refrigerator freezer.   On the other hand, at super cold temperatures, the properties of matter change radically.   1976 Eielson AFB Alaska, a friend was entrusted with a buddy's brand new Datsun B-210.  We were going to take it out for a ride, it was cold, -45 F.  He hopped into the driver seat and the naugahyde upholstery shattered like glass.  I wasn't around when the guy came back to get his car, but surely there was an interesting conversation.  People from North Dakota will probably think "what a moron", but for a 22 year old kid from Oregon, this was eye opening.

 

42 minutes ago, szurszewski said:

 

As an alternative to fender washers, if you can find a socket that just slightly undersized from the bearing (and of course large enough to pass your threaded rod through) it will work well as a press.

 

Good Idea, szurszerski,  I was thinking that one of the lug bolt cones could be used to center the threaded rod in the bearing bore (opposite side of the bushing being installed.)   A trip to the hardware store might yeild other possibilities.

 

Thanks for sharing, guys.

Jeff J.

[BamaJohn]

"packing the bushing in dry ice" 

household freezer overnight should do it.

 

I might not have understood your comment below,  but you do want to pull the bearing into place using force on the outside race, not the inside race.

3 hours ago, jeffyjeff said:

lug bolt cones could be used to center the threaded rod in the bearing bore

 

[dirtrider]

On 1/21/2021 at 11:46 AM, jeffyjeff said:

I do not have machined cups, but I thought that using a piece of all thread and nuts with a pair of stout fender washers, maybe even doubled up, and a manual speed handle would pull in the bearing evenly.

Afternoon jeffyjeff

 

A doubled up fender washer should work just fine, try to size the washer center hole to about rod size so you can center the washers somewhat centered on the new bearing using the washer OD matched to the bearing OD. A doubled fender washer should hopefully cone just enough to pull the new bearings all the way in. But, just to be sure, after seating the new bearings, go back & use the old (removed) bearing outer races under the fender washers to pull on them again (this will guarantee the new bearings are fully seated). 

 

If you lightly heat the alloy drive housing ears you shouldn't have to cool or freeze the new bearings. 

 

With bushings (personally) I usually Loc-tite the non-adjustable side at installation but not the adjustable side, then after riding a day or two lift the rear wheel & verify the drive is still tight. If not tight re-adjust then Loc-tite.

 

If OK then mark the center stud, back the stud out a few turns, then put Loc-tite  on the threads & screw it back in to the mark. Then hold the stud from rotating then Loc-tite & tighten the retaining nut.   

[jeffyjeff]

Thanks for the tips.

In the meantime, while I'm waiting for payday to roll around, I'm riding on the old bearings.  Need to test out the new clutch, you know.   The bike handles pretty much the same as it always did.  I guess it would, since the bearing grease was already 16 years old and the bearings probably shot when I acquired the bike.  Do you think I'll notice a change in handling?  I read somewhere that the pivot pin articulation helps prevent wheel hop.  I have experienced wheel hop on my R1150R, but only on the rare occasion when I'm out in the countryside pushing the bike's performance (and my own riding skill) to an unreasonable level. I always attributed the wheel hop to the limits of my riding skill.

[dirtrider]

33 minutes ago, jeffyjeff said:

Thanks for the tips.

In the meantime, while I'm waiting for payday to roll around, I'm riding on the old bearings.  Need to test out the new clutch, you know.   The bike handles pretty much the same as it always did.  I guess it would, since the bearing grease was already 16 years old and the bearings probably shot when I acquired the bike.  Do you think I'll notice a change in handling?  I read somewhere that the pivot pin articulation helps prevent wheel hop.  I have experienced wheel hop on my R1150R, but only on the rare occasion when I'm out in the countryside pushing the bike's performance (and my own riding skill) to an unreasonable level. I always attributed the wheel hop to the limits of my riding skill.

Evening   jeffyjeff

 

Unless your present bearings are so loose that they allow the final drive to significantly move around I doubt you will tell much difference.

 

Depending on how you are getting wheel hop that is probably more worn shock related. 

[jeffyjeff]

8 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Depending on how you are getting wheel hop that is probably more worn shock related. 

 

The times I have experienced wheel hop have been situations of aggressive engine braking;  a series of quick down shifts executed to scrub off speed.  Usually preceding a tight curve in the road, that puts the tachometer between 6000 rpm and red line.  Occasionally, under these conditions, I have been surprised by a little wheel hop.   I would not be at all surprised to learn that the shock is in need of service or replacement, it is 19  years old after all.  But I guess you gotta draw the line somewhere, right?  Realistically, my bike is worth around $2,500, and a decent set of performance shocks would run probably half that.  I'm 67 years old and got no business pushing the limits of my bike or riding skills to that degree.  Fun to get out there and scrape the corners of my boot soles on the pavement though.

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, jeffyjeff said:

 

The times I have experienced wheel hop have been situations of aggressive engine braking;  a series of quick down shifts executed to scrub off speed.  Usually preceding a tight curve in the road, that puts the tachometer between 6000 rpm and red line.  Occasionally, under these conditions, I have been surprised by a little wheel hop.   I would not be at all surprised to learn that the shock is in need of service or replacement, it is 19  years old after all.  But I guess you gotta draw the line somewhere, right?  Realistically, my bike is worth around $2,500, and a decent set of performance shocks would run probably half that.  I'm 67 years old and got no business pushing the limits of my bike or riding skills to that degree.  Fun to get out there and scrape the corners of my boot soles on the pavement though.

Morning   jeffyjeff

 

You need to practice using the brakes to slow down not aggressive downshifting, nothing wrong with downshifting to keep the gearing matched to the speed, or for down-hill engine over-run braking but over-aggressive downshifting for braking can get you into big trouble. 

 

Not to mention blowing a clutch disk apart if you manage to downshift  it into a low enough gear at a high enough road speed to over-spin the disk.

 

Getting rear wheel hop on a downshift is telling you that you are doing something  that you shouldn't be doing. 

 

As for " 67 years old and got no business pushing the limits of my bike or riding skills to that degree"__ don't believe that for a minute. I am older than that & you might be VERY surprised with how aggressive my group of older riders ride at times. A lot of us can easily out ride, out brake, out turn the younger hot-shot riders, we just can't do it for as long without stopping to pee. 

 

 

[jeffyjeff]

Thanks for the brotherly advice.  And for the inspiraton.  

[Trobinson]

JeffyJeff,

 

I used the bushings from Ted Porter several years ago and they have held up well in my opinion.  I've now dismantled my bike and took a good look at the bushings and while they had some wear they were tight and ready to go.  That is with 50K+ miles on them.  I think they'll last the life of any bike if lubricated on a regular basis.

 

Tom

[Trobinson]

On 1/23/2021 at 7:32 AM, dirtrider said:

As for " 67 years old and got no business pushing the limits of my bike or riding skills to that degree"__ don't believe that for a minute. I am older than that & you might be VERY surprised with how aggressive my group of older riders ride at times. A lot of us can easily out ride, out brake, out turn the younger hot-shot riders, we just can't do it for as long without stopping to pee. 

 

 

You give me hope for improving my skills D.R.!  Not 67, but started riding late (around 49 or so) and I'm sure I wouldn't be able to keep up with you old farts!

[jeffyjeff]

On 1/23/2021 at 5:32 AM, dirtrider said:

You need to practice using the brakes to slow down not aggressive downshifting, nothing wrong with downshifting to keep the gearing matched to the speed, or for down-hill engine over-run braking but over-aggressive downshifting for braking can get you into big trouble. 

 

I'm probably being overly sensitive about this, but I've been mulling it over for a few days now.  Without a doubt, there have been occasions out on the road where my enthusiasm exceeds common sense.  But those times are exceedingly rare, and I would venture to say that it has happend to most riders who attempt to negotiate curvy roads in a technical fashion.  I do not consider myself to be a "good rider", but I am far from unrefined.  By applying some of the technques advocated by Nick Ienatsch, I manage to ride my 19 year old bike with some degree of finesse.  

 

Well, I got that off my chest.  Thanks again for the inspiration.  Rubber side down.   Jeff J.

[jeffyjeff]

UPDATE 02/13/2021

Installed the bushing kit today.  Thanks dirtrider,  BamaJohn, and Uncle Mike for the tips.  Heated the casting with my Harbor Freight heat gun per DR and the old bearing came out without protest.  Examination of the pin reveals that the bearing was doing very little if anything at all to absorb radial load from the articulation of the final drive.  The pin had worn about .13mm from the load (and presumably rotation) placed on it.  The new bushing is about 35% wider than the bearing race (13.5mm vs 10mm), and with periodic lubrication, should last longer and perform better over the long haul.

 

 

One disappointment is that the parts came with no installation instructions .   I chilled the bushing in my freezer  and heated the casting for assembly.  The bushing slid into the bore about 20% of the way.  Unfortunately, due to sealed design of the bushing, it could not be drawn into the bearing bore as previously discussed.  It had to be tapped in, no way around that.  I used a soft metal drift on the outer circumference of the bushing and it went in straight away.

 

The kit came with a tube of grease, but I don't know what it is, and to ensure compatibity with future lubrication, used Valvoline Synthetic EP Moly grease instead.  I figure if it's good for extreme pressure loads like CV joints, it will hold up well in this application.  Smeared a film of grease onto the pins and assembled per the video.  Installed the zirc fitting and greased the bushing with my grease gun.  But when I removed the zirc, some of the grease came out !?  Must have been air trapped in the grease pocket.  So out came the pin.  I filled the bushing cup with grease, then installed the pin, sans cap or zirc, by hand.  Much grease came out as the pin threaded in, but I'm confident that there is no air in the grease pocket.  Fitted the zirc and lubed the bushing as before.  Took less than one stroke on the gun.

 

Fitted both sides, torqued the fixed pin per BMW spec.  Adjusted the inside pin and torqued per BMW spec.  Worked the final drive through its range of motion, and fitted the torque arm.   Absent any instruction, I can only guess at the proper lube interval for the pivot pin bushings.  I'm thinking every other oil change (12,000 mile) intervals??

 

Thanks again to all for chiming in on this thread. 

Jeff  J.

[duan447]

New guy here .

I have recently purchased an 02 r1150r "yellow jacket " w/62k miles and intend to do this service on mine .

I just bought a 12mm hex driver from Lowes and and already own a 30mm socket and a harbor freight wheel bearing install /removal kit I used on a Subaru 

I hope will prove useful ( Guess i like boxers ) I will let you know if this tool helps .

I  am wondering if a bad bearing is noticeable when riding ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'

[jeffyjeff]

On 2/13/2021 at 10:03 PM, duan447 said:

I  am wondering if a bad bearing is noticeable when riding ?

 

I would say not likely, but my experience is limited, having only ridden my bike with knackered bearings and subsequently, with new bushings installed.  The difference is not significant.  

[Jonesey]

My 1150 had a lot of wear on pivot bearings, one of the rear ones had fallen apart, so the wheel could be rocked about an inch side to side with bike on centrestand. I could see the rear drive moving at the rubber gaiter. On the road the bike was twitching on white lines or tarmac ridges, especially on bends. Once new bearings were fitted this was totally cured, and bike feels much more securely planted on the road. Money well spent.

[Lincoln_Faller]

When my 2001 1150gs needed new pivot bearings I did a little online research and found a good many recommendations for these, including by some who'd put as many as 12K miles on them:

 

https://nushings.com/#/

 

They came with installation instructions that were easy to follow, and I'm not a skilled mechanic.  I used threaded rod, with nuts and fender washers to seat the bushings; no heat needed.  So far I'm very satisfied with them, though I've not put a lot of mileage on them.

 

No interest in the company, except as a satisfied customer who saved a lot of money over BMW  prices.  When my 1150 RT needed new pivot bearings after only 24K miles, replacement done by an independent shop cost me more than $200 for the bearings, plus labor.

[Kevin-RT1150]

I've heard a lot of good things about Emerald Island and being in manufacturing, I am always curious about other companies.  I tried to find there website or where they're located to no avail....

[jeffyjeff]

1 hour ago, Kevin-RT1150 said:

I've heard a lot of good things about Emerald Island and being in manufacturing, I am always curious about other companies.  I tried to find there website or where they're located to no avail....

 

Emerald Island are the ones I installed.  I really like the fact that they have a provision for periodic lubrication.  Installation was simple, although it did require pounding instead of pulling, as shown in the Nushings instructions.   2985 miles on the EI bushings.  So far so good.

[Lowndes]

On 1/23/2021 at 2:15 AM, jeffyjeff said:

 

 ...I would not be at all surprised to learn that the shock is in need of service or replacement, it is 19  years old after all.  But I guess you gotta draw the line somewhere, right?  Realistically, my bike is worth around $2,500, and a decent set of performance shocks would run probably half that.  I'm 67 years old and got no business pushing the limits of my bike or riding skills to that degree.  Fun to get out there and scrape the corners of my boot soles on the pavement though.

 

You young whipper snappers need to recalibrate your rationale.  Riding a bike is not an investment for the purpose of increasing your net worth.  Hard to measure pure enjoyment with $ or increase it with ROI analysis or any other ratios you can conjure.   This sport/pleasure/passion/addiction/distraction is purely personal pleasure.  You WE will spend hours researching the pros and cons, life expectancy, costs, exactly proper installation procedures of a bearing the size of a quarter that only provides single digit degrees of movement where most riders are happy with none, all to keep just one of our two wheels a little more in contact with the road surface (while we're riding in circles big and small) and trying to get it all done before we graduate to a walker.  All that to say a good set of shocks just might be one of the best things you can do for your riding.  They are like a very good wine; if you've never had one you think a $10 bottle is OK, then you try a good wine....  I never thought about "shocks", if the bike had bounce I was good to go.  Then I rode a really good bike that had been set up with excellent suspension and dampening.  

 

Then there is the safety aspect.  

 

Good suspension might not cost as much as you expect, but it ain't cheap either, and it takes some research and tinkering/adjusting.  And we're ok with that (see above thread).

 

Q: Do you know how much money Howard Hughes left when he died??  A: ALL of it.