Shop-Vacs

[Whip]

Do these things have the worst wheels in the world or is it just me?

 

A 1/2 inch piece of wood, a pebble the size of a marble or it’s  own electrical cord will stop it dead till I pull on it and it tips over.

 

They seem to move toward every obstruction in the room.

 

Not to mention the hose itself....that POS gets wound up around the machine or caught on anything.

 

Rant over

 

WTF

Edited January 14, 2021 by Whip

[John Ranalletta]

Mine won't roll over its own shadow.  One would think they could figure how to put the motor weight and inlet port in the bottom so they'd be less tippy; however, the 25 y/o Chinese engineer who lives in a one-bulb, 2-room apartment only designs them but never uses them in the wild.

 

A man of your means might pop for a Festool.

 

[wbw6cos]

No, it is the wheels.   There are only 4 and they seem to steer in about 7 different directions at the same time.   Case in point:  wide open space, concrete floor with nothing in the way and I cannot even push it in a straight line.  

[Rougarou]

37 minutes ago, Whip said:

Do these things have the worst wheels in the world or is it just me?

 

A 1/2 inch piece of wood, a pebble the size of a marble or it own electrical cord will stop it dead till I pull on it and it tips over.

 

They seem to move toward every obstruction in the room.

 

Not to mention the hose itself....that POS gets wound up around the machine or caught on anything.

 

Rant over

 

WTF

 

Ugh, I hate them fawkin things, I want to build a JFF box and put some decent wheels under it.

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

11 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

Ugh, I hate them fawkin things, I want to build a JFF box and put some decent wheels under it.

 

 

That's the 2007 model, and frankly the wheels weren't very good.  They were single casters from Home Depot, and they had they same "FU, we're going THIS way" problem as the vac's original wheels.

 

In 2019 I built a new cabinet (the one on the right):

 

 

 

It's got room for a bigger, more powerful vac, plus it routes the motor-cooling air separately from the main exhaust to reduce the risk of overheating/fire if the filter or main suction hose gets blocked:

 

 

The hose on the right is for the motor-cooling exhaust, which is directed through an upper baffle network.   Just in case something goes really wrong, the main chamber and motor exhaust paths are also fitted with thermal fuses that open at about 165F (the little black nipple in this pic):

 

 

I also stained it and put a laminate top on it so it doesn't get grungy quite so rapidly as the first cabinet did.

 

And this time, yes, I bought good double-casters for it:

 

 

The cabinet is too heavy to drag the whole thing around by the hose, but you can grab it by handles (not shown in photos) to move it around and the wheels are pretty cooperative.  Definitely won't tip over.  This is too much of a space hog to keep in a 2-car garage, but it's great in my basement workshop for dust collection; I can run it for an hour while sandblasting/powdercoating without driving my wife crazy with the vac noise.

 

The noise suppression is about as good as the original cabinet, -22 dB or so.  I haven't made a video about it yet like the first cabinet, but if you want to see the rest of the construction pics, here's the gallery. 

 

 

[Rougarou]

I've got wheels like this on a 250ish lb cabinet, they don't seem to go where they want to.  I like all my stand-up cabinets to be mobile, so I've either been putting them on a Harbor Freight Dolly or where not practicle (too large/wide), putting wheels on them.  Most of the metal cabinets I own have the "level adjusters" and the below wheel screws right in,....I also have the locking wheels to keep them in place in case of the errant North Carolina earthquake.

 

 

When I do get 'round to building me a cabinet for the vac, I'ma throw some good wheels on it with brake wheels as well.  I have a 25 gal shop vac with standard hose, but I also have a 25ft hose to go with it........which is a PITA to deal with/store.

[John Ranalletta]

18 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

That's the 2007 model, and frankly the wheels weren't very good.  They were single casters from Home Depot, and they had they same "FU, we're going THIS way" problem as the vac's original wheels.

 

In 2019 I built a new cabinet (the one on the right):

 

 

 

It's got room for a bigger, more powerful vac, plus it routes the motor-cooling air separately from the main exhaust to reduce the risk of overheating/fire if the filter or main suction hose gets blocked:

 

 

The hose on the right is for the motor-cooling exhaust, which is directed through an upper baffle network.   Just in case something goes really wrong, the main chamber and motor exhaust paths are also fitted with thermal fuses that open at about 165F (the little black nipple in this pic):

 

 

I also stained it and put a laminate top on it so it doesn't get grungy quite so rapidly as the first cabinet did.

 

And this time, yes, I bought good double-casters for it:

 

 

The cabinet is too heavy to drag the whole thing around by the hose, but you can grab it by handles (not shown in photos) to move it around and the wheels are pretty cooperative.  Definitely won't tip over.  This is too much of a space hog to keep in a 2-car garage, but it's great in my basement workshop for dust collection; I can run it for an hour while sandblasting/powdercoating without driving my wife crazy with the vac noise.

 

The noise suppression is about as good as the original cabinet, -22 dB or so.  I haven't made a video about it yet like the first cabinet, but if you want to see the rest of the construction pics, here's the gallery. 

 

 

Very cool; however, remodeling interior spaces means portability for picking up drywall dust, etc.  The problem with drywall dust is that it plugs filters in a heartbeat.  Wish someone would market a cyclone collector-style portable vac.

[Rougarou]

1 minute ago, John Ranalletta said:

Very cool; however, remodeling interior spaces means portability for picking up drywall dust, etc.  The problem with drywall dust is that it plugs filters in a heartbeat.  Wish someone would market a cyclone collector-style portable vac.

 

Ya, I run that bad boy until the motor whines and there's hardly anymore suction.  then I tackle the ultra-fun task of cleaning the filter, which entails alot of throwing for distances until the bulk of the drywall dust falls off, then it's the air compressor to blow the remaining out,.......I don't know which is worse, cleaning that filter or cleaning the spray painter.

[realshelby]

I got so tired of yanking a shop vac around that I bought a small one and mounted it to the lathe! Works as good as the big one. Just turn it on and reach for the hose to clean up the lathe. Best money I have spent!

On the other hand, I believe Shop Vac isn't going to be around long. Financial problems......Yet every vacuum used by a man will always be a "shop vac"!

[realshelby]

7 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

Very cool; however, remodeling interior spaces means portability for picking up drywall dust, etc.  The problem with drywall dust is that it plugs filters in a heartbeat.  Wish someone would market a cyclone collector-style portable vac.

Might cost a bit more than you want to spend. I wonder if there is a rental outlet for something like this? Would be worth it for some jobs. I bet this would help in rooms where you are busting out tile for instance....

 

https://www.grizzly.com/products/shop-fox-1-1-2-hp-portable-cyclone/w1823

[Rougarou]

I had a "smaller" one that I had mounted to the wall, but unfortunately, my DIY wife (me too), like to do more destruction than reconstruction, so, I needed to maintain a portable.  That 25gal is a beast to move around and the wheels FU in everyway, ugh.  

 

I do have a small portable DeWalt battery operated one that I hook up to the miter saw and it works very well for collecting "most" of the dust and is super easy for transport for jobs that don't require the 25gal.

[John Ranalletta]

This looks sweet but drywall dust probably wouldn't settle in the pail.  Perhaps, a cyclone in the pail would give it time to settle out before entering vac filter.

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

12 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

Very cool; however, remodeling interior spaces means portability for picking up drywall dust, etc.  The problem with drywall dust is that it plugs filters in a heartbeat.  Wish someone would market a cyclone collector-style portable vac.

 

I have a homemade cyclone for the sandblaster:

 

 

It works pretty well.  My problem comes with cleaning the floor after powdercoating: I unplug the vac hose from this thing and use it to directly pick up the stray powder from the floor, which means I gotta clean the vac filter after a few powder sessions.   Somehow I've never gotten around replumbing things to fix this.

 

One of these days I'd like to add this thing to my shop vac cabinet:

 

 

 

 

Maybe to a lid on a big Brute trash can:

 

 

 

The suction hose is on the cyclone, which puts it far above ground.  But you could tether it to the side of the trash can, near the ground - so that when you pull the hose, the can comes to you without tipping over.   (maybe that same sort of low-to-the-ground tethering could also help the average shop vac?)

[Hosstage]

Shop vacs are necessary, yet evil. Storage is a pain in the butt. At least I can't find half the hose attachments, so that's nice!

[Oldironken]

I use one of these with my Shop Vac  https://www.oneida-air.com/anti-static-dust-deputy-diy-cyclone-separator

 

It works great to keep the filter clean, almost all dirt and dust ends up in the 5-gallon pail i hooked it too.

 

I have a dust collection system to install down the road and when i do i'll add a larger one of these.

 

 

[realshelby]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

 

I do have a small portable DeWalt battery operated one that I hook up to the miter saw and it works very well for collecting "most" of the dust and is super easy for transport for jobs that don't require the 25gal.

I have the Ryobi version of one of those. Just right to sweep out the Jeep and cars. Needs the bigger batteries to work best. Truly portable and while not as powerful as the plug in versions, does very well with the small nozzle on the end. Beats dragging out the cord and rewinding for a small job.

[Rougarou]

36 minutes ago, realshelby said:

I have the Ryobi version of one of those. Just right to sweep out the Jeep and cars. Needs the bigger batteries to work best. Truly portable and while not as powerful as the plug in versions, does very well with the small nozzle on the end. Beats dragging out the cord and rewinding for a small job.

 

Ya, I gots me some 6.0 batteries, ugh, ugh, ugh, more power(not really but longer lasting)

[Antimatter]

I bought a cheap cyclone from Home Depot.  It worked pretty well, but mostly just slowed the rate at which the filter got plugged up.  It also helped with dust coming out of the vacuum and going into the rest of the house.

 

[realshelby]

55 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

Ya, I gots me some 6.0 batteries, ugh, ugh, ugh, more power(not really but longer lasting)

Ryobi's run at 18v. I think that any of the newer more efficient battery tools run at 18v or higher. But, there is also a difference in the size of battery pack. Not just how long it runs, but at what speed/power it operates. The smaller packs that come with the tool are good for drilling and stuff like that. Lighter, and make the tool easy to carry and use. But plug one of the 3 amp/hour packs in it and the vacuum runs faster and maintains that speed for a good while. Probably get more of the 3's as they just last so much longer. BTW, the Ryobi battery 1/2" impact gun I have is actually more powerful than my air impact ( unless I crank the air pressure way up). So, as far as I am concerned battery power has replaced air power for about any shop tool. 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

1 hour ago, Antimatter said:

It also helped with dust coming out of the vacuum and going into the rest of the house.

 

If you get the HEPA-material filter, this pretty much eliminates dust output from the vac.  I do my sandblasting/powdercoating in a corner of my basement that's walled off with plastic sheeting:

 

 

The vac (with HEPA filter) dumps filtered air outside of this enclosure, into the rest of the basement.  I have a Foobot for monitoring air quality in my workshop, and even after 45 minutes of blasting/coating, it shows that the PM level in the basement doesn't go up until I actual step out of that enclosure (and briefly drag dust-laden air out with me).

[BrianM]

The reason shop vacs have trouble moving over objects is not due to the castors.

 

Mine is empty most of the time, so the center of mass is towards the top of the vacuum (most have the motors on the top). Most have the hose located near the top also. 

 

Pulling an object towards the top with a high center of mass will easily trip over small objects even with good casters. Also they tend to be taller than they are wide for higher capacity vacuums.

 

The diameter of the castor would be more of a factor than the quality.

 

Physics is great, everyone should take a dozen or so classes.

[Hosstage]

You put nice hard rubber casters with ceramic bearings, and they would roll nice! Of course, the casters would cost more than the vac.

[Rougarou]

10 hours ago, BrianM said:

The reason shop vacs have trouble moving over objects is not due to the castors.

 

Mine is empty most of the time, so the center of mass is towards the top of the vacuum (most have the motors on the top). Most have the hose located near the top also. 

 

Pulling an object towards the top with a high center of mass will easily trip over small objects even with good casters. Also they tend to be taller than they are wide for higher capacity vacuums.

 

The diameter of the castor would be more of a factor than the quality.

 

Physics is great, everyone should take a dozen or so classes.

 

Nah, it's cause of shitty wheels.  Put some "skate" wheels under it and I SWAG that they'd move alot gooder even-though top heavy.

[BrianM]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

 

Nah, it's cause of shitty wheels.  Put some "skate" wheels under it and I SWAG that they'd move alot gooder even-though top heavy.

I have experimented by pushing vacuum with my foot at the bottom from behind the vacuum. It moves much better, less tipping.

 

Diameter is a larger factor. Why dirt bikes have 21 in wheels.

[Rougarou]

9 minutes ago, BrianM said:

I have experimented by pushing vacuum with my foot at the bottom from behind the vacuum. It moves much better, less tipping.

 

Diameter is a larger factor. Why dirt bikes have 21 in wheels.

 

No doubts in that, but I'd bet if you put some gooder wheels on the bottom, it would pull better from the top.  Not saying perfect, but much better than those plastic double non-bearing wheels on it now.

[BrianM]

4 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

No doubts in that, but I'd bet if you put some gooder wheels on the bottom, it would pull better from the top.  Not saying perfect, but much better than those plastic double non-bearing wheels on it now.

If you increase the diameter. Keep diameter the same, see little to no improvement. Seen plenty of skate boards with expensive wheels come to a quick stop due to their small diameter wheels. Look at the diameter of the wheels for off road skate boards and inline skates.

 

I have a large shop vac, i tend to push rather than pull, works much better. Especially if I push backwards with the larger wheels leading.

[Rougarou]

21 minutes ago, BrianM said:

If you increase the diameter. Keep diameter the same, see little to no improvement. Seen plenty of skate boards with expensive wheels come to a quick stop due to their small diameter wheels. Look at the diameter of the wheels for off road skate boards and inline skates.

 

I have a large shop vac, i tend to push rather than pull, works much better. Especially if I push backwards with the larger wheels leading.

 

I may give it a go, I've got spare wheels/casters that are sitting in a drawer that are not those crappy plastic things,....but I think they're the same size.

[BrianM]

1 minute ago, Rougarou said:

 

I may give it a go, I've got spare wheels/casters that are sitting in a drawer that are not those crappy plastic things,....but I think they're the same size.

Try it, see what happens. 
 

I never deemed it worth the time/money/effort. Much easier to just push mine around.

[Rougarou]

Frustration is always worth the effort to fix.

[mickeym3]

Just keeping the thread going until Terry can respond to Richard’s post....

[Hosstage]

Let's be honest, the wheels used on them couldn't be any cheaper. They're one step away from being plastic slides.

[John Ranalletta]