R 1150 Basic wiring to start engine

[OnyxWalker]

Hi, I have an oil head engine out of a 2005 R 1150r I'm trying to get started, I found this wiring diagram and together with the manual I've been able to figure out most of it. I only have 2 issues where I could use some advice, clarification..

1. According to the diagram I have posted, the black and grey wires from the o2 sensor and 2 wires from the timing sensor appear to all be grounded along with pin 02 and 21 from the ECU. In my case I was able to use the existing plug from the timing sensor so I have no way to physically verify this, also the manual is not to clear ..for me anyway.. 

So my actual question is, does this seem ok? and I was also wondering what the hidden lines or dashes running next to the wires signify.

2. According to the diagram, wires 87 and 87a in the coding plug are grounded, however in the manual it is saying 86 and 87a... which one is it?

I realize the quality of the diagram is not great so if something is not clear let me know .  Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, OnyxWalker said:

Hi, I have an oil head engine out of a 2005 R 1150r I'm trying to get started, I found this wiring diagram and together with the manual I've been able to figure out most of it. I only have 2 issues where I could use some advice, clarification..

1. According to the diagram I have posted, the black and grey wires from the o2 sensor and 2 wires from the timing sensor appear to all be grounded along with pin 02 and 21 from the ECU. In my case I was able to use the existing plug from the timing sensor so I have no way to physically verify this, also the manual is not to clear ..for me anyway.. 

So my actual question is, does this seem ok? and I was also wondering what the hidden lines or dashes running next to the wires signify.

2. According to the diagram, wires 87 and 87a in the coding plug are grounded, however in the manual it is saying 86 and 87a... which one is it?

I realize the quality of the diagram is not great so if something is not clear let me know .  Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Morning OnyxWalker

 

1. According to the diagram I have posted, the black and grey wires from the o2 sensor and 2 wires from the timing sensor appear to all be grounded along with pin 02 and 21 from the ECU. In my case I was able to use the existing plug from the timing sensor so I have no way to physically verify this, also the manual is not to clear ..for me anyway.. 

So my actual question is, does this seem ok? and I was also wondering what the hidden lines or dashes running next to the wires signify.-- (on the BMW 1150 some grounds are lows not actual grounds).

The dashed lines signify shielded wires to exclude crosstalk & RFI interference. In most cases on wires with dashed lines ONLY the outer shielding gets grounded not the actual wires. 

 

 

 

To run the engine you can leave the o2 sensor unplugged as it will run fine in place without the o2 sensor active. If the o2 sensor is not physically mounted in a functional exhaust system then might as well not be connect it as it will do no good just plugged in with no reference exhaust to read. See bottom of this posting for more info on this.

 

2. According to the diagram, wires 87 and 87a in the coding plug are grounded, however in the manual it is saying 86 and 87a... which one is it? -- This depends on what country your motorcycle was sold in. The coding plug just selects the correct fueling & emission mapping in the Motronic 2.4. It will run fine in place with all the coding plug terminals open. Or if you tell us what country that your BMW was originally sold in we can give you the Coding  Plug pins that need to be connected together. 

 

____________________________________________________________________

 

1. According to the diagram I have posted, the black and grey wires from the o2 sensor get grounded.
__ the grey & black wire themselves do NOT get grounded as they return back to the ECU. ONLY the actual  wire SHIELDING on the grey & black wires gets grounded to a chassis or engine case ground (this point is important so fully understand before proceeding)

 

and 2 wires from the timing sensor appear to all be grounded

__ ONLY the brown wire to the timing sensor gets grounded. On the other  wires ONLY the wire shielding gets grounded, not the internal wire itself.

 

along with pin 02 and 21 from the ECU.

__ECU pins number  2, 21, 34 need to be grounded to the chassis, or to a clean engine ground point.

 

 

[OnyxWalker]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

- (on the BMW 1150 some grounds are lows not actual grounds).

Hi again Dirtrider, 

This is new to me, definitely going to do my research on shielded wires.  I might be calling on you again for this 

Everything else you have mentioned makes perfect sense, Thank you very much for your awesome explanation 

 

The o2 sensor is mounted, maybe not in the best location but with a very short exhaust my options were limited.

My plan is to put this engine in an ultralight so I'm hoping that at higher altitudes the engine will automatically compensate for the lack of oxygen?? 

 

I live in Canada but the engine came out of a bike I bought in New Jersey, thats all I know ...lol. 

I'll take your advice and leave all the coding wires open, figure it out later. ..

 

Thanks for helping me out "again" with my project

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

14 minutes ago, OnyxWalker said:

Hi again Dirtrider, 

This is new to me, definitely going to do my research on shielded wires.  I might be calling on you again for this 

Everything else you have mentioned makes perfect sense, Thank you very much for your awesome explanation 

 

The o2 sensor is mounted, maybe not in the best location but with a very short exhaust my options were limited.

My plan is to put this engine in an ultralight so I'm hoping that at higher altitudes the engine will automatically compensate for the lack of oxygen?? 

 

I live in Canada but the engine came out of a bike I bought in New Jersey, thats all I know ...lol. 

I'll take your advice and leave all the coding wires open, figure it out later. ..

 

Thanks for helping me out "again" with my project

Morning OnyxWalker

 

On that short exhaust, you need to be somewhat careful in using an exhaust with the o2 sensor being too close to the outlet. 

 

If you run an open exhaust you will probably get enough exhaust reversion at closed throttle & at throttle roll-off to suck atmospheric air back into a short pipe & fool the o2 sensor. 

 

At steady throttle & under load you should be OK but remember that the closed loop part of the fueling learns from the  o2 sensor input so if it's adaptive learning is off then some of your fueling will also be off on transient throttle movement.

 

You probably will want to run an exhaust temp gauge until you have the fueling at altitude fully understood.

 

My suggestion is to maybe message Roger04RT on this board as he has a LOT BMW 1100/1150 fueling knowledge plus he is a seasoned pilot.  

 

Does that BMW engine have enough crankshaft thrust bearing to handle propeller loading or do you have something that bolts on the engine to take the additional thrust loading?

[OnyxWalker]

I've installed a gear reducer with a centrifugal clutch, the prop doesn't start spinning till you hit 2100 rpm

I installed the o2 sensor as far away from the slip on as possible, we see what happens

I have the EGT gauges and wiring from the original 2 stroke engine, not sure I can make those work?

 

I'll definitely hit up  Roger04RT at some point, first I gotta get this puppy fired up!!

 

Will.

 

 

[OnyxWalker]

Hi D r .. me again  

So I did a search and checked the manual with no luck, and since you probably know this by heart.. I gotta ask ,

on the fuel pump is the larger nut the +12 volt? and the smaller nut with the spring is the ground.

 

Thanks!

[dirtrider]

46 minutes ago, OnyxWalker said:

Hi D r .. me again  

So I did a search and checked the manual with no luck, and since you probably know this by heart.. I gotta ask ,

on the fuel pump is the larger nut the +12 volt? and the smaller nut with the spring is the ground.

 

Thanks!

Evening OnyxWalker

 

[OnyxWalker]

Glad I asked..Lol  Seems like theres a lot going there....is there anything else I should know

 

I/m mounting the pump externally ( for now anyway )

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, OnyxWalker said:

Glad I asked..Lol  Seems like theres a lot going there....is there anything else I should know

 

I/m mounting the pump externally ( for now anyway )

Morning OnyxWalker

 

Not really, most of what you see has to do with the fuel level gauge wiring & the low fuel warning float & related wiring.

 

The pump is just a 12v high pressure fuel pump so nothing special with that.

 

Are you mounting the pump INSIDE the fuel tank? (covered with fuel?)

 

That pump is fuel cooled so the fuel actually runs through the pump motor to cool & lubricate it so never run the pump without fuel flowing through it. (don't run it dry).

[OnyxWalker]

for now the pump is external and if all goes well it will be permanent. 2 open wires splashing around in the gas tank....uh no thanks, enough to worry about..

 

So I'm guessing the pump is self priming, I wasn't sure if I should mount it on top or bottom, do you think a check valve is a good idea?

 

Just need to pick up a batterie and some oil and I'm good to go! 

 

Thank you, really appreciate your help

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, OnyxWalker said:

for now the pump is external and if all goes well it will be permanent. 2 open wires splashing around in the gas tank....uh no thanks, enough to worry about..

 

So I'm guessing the pump is self priming, I wasn't sure if I should mount it on top or bottom, do you think a check valve is a good idea?

 

Just need to pick up a batterie and some oil and I'm good to go! 

 

Thank you, really appreciate your help

Morning OnyxWalker

 

That pump can make a a LOT of pressure but I'm not sure of the suction available with a dry impeller. The pump is meant to be mounted inside the fuel tank with it's inlet covered with fuel. If mounted externally & well above the fuel level it might not self prime with a drained back dry impeller.

 

At pre-start (initial key on) the Motronic only runs the pump for about 2 seconds to pressurize the fuel rail then shuts back off UNTIL engine is cranking. 

 

Mounting the pump inside the fuel tank isn't a problem even with exposed wire terminals as there is just not enough oxygen inside the tank to allow an explosion. Just about every modern fuel injected car, truck, & motorcycle has the electric fuel pump mounted inside the fuel tank.

 

If you do mount the BMW pump externally then personally I would mount it below the  fuel tank level so it stays full of fuel  after shutdown. You could use a check valve (or foot valve)  but that just adds another point of failure if it sticks shut or could cause difficult engine starting if it sticks open. 

 

Not sure how you  are going to make a solid failure free, vibration resistant  inlet attachment to that pump if you mount the pump externally but be sure that is failure free or you will have an instant engine failure & a walk home. 

 

There are some aftermarket high pressure fuel pump's that are meant to be mounted externally complete with mounting ears & correct inlet/outlet barbed hose fittings. 

 

Also be sure to use high pressure fuel hose that can handle the system pressure (60 psi +) that the pump puts out as well as internally fuel resistant. Do not use common worm gear type hose clamps as those will eventually dig into the fuel hose, degrade the hose outer covering then start leaking, or worse yet, allow the hose to blow off of the fitting & blow high  pressure fuel all over everything.  Use proper high pressure FI (Fuel Injection) hose clamps on all hose fittings.  

 

[dirtrider]

On 1/2/2021 at 10:23 PM, OnyxWalker said:

My plan is to put this engine in an ultralight so I'm hoping that at higher altitudes the engine will automatically compensate for the lack of oxygen?? 

 

Morning OnyxWalker

 

I was thinking about this & have a couple of thoughts-- 

 

First thought is the o2 sensor should compensate (be a little on the lean side but should work) BUT, keep in mind that the o2 sensor only controls the fueling during closed loop operation. On the BMW 1150 (Ma 2.4) Motronic there is a point at high engine load moderate to fully open throttle that the fueling reverts back to open loop (fixed fueling mapping). I'm not exactly sure how this relates to your engine usage in an air frame type usage.

 

Usually not a problem as the Motronic (fueling computer) has a built in atmospheric  pressure sensor that allows it's  internal open loop  fueling mapping to fuel correctly. BUT, here is where I will caution you: That altitude compensation is probably only calibrated up to as high as a normal vehicle can drive. If you plan of flying higher than the fueling control was calibrated for then I don't know what you will get if your fueling system goes back into open loop operation. 

 

Personally I would probably  build or buy a monitoring system for either o2 sensor output voltage or just use a simple voltmeter monitoring on the o2 sensor output. If the monitor  quits showing o2 voltage crossovers, or goes to the extremely rich or lean side then you know your fueling is not being controlled by the o2 sensor.

 

Roger is probably the one to talk with on the above as he has done a lot of work with the BMW 1150 fueling control plus understands the altitude effect on your fueling needs.

 

[OnyxWalker]

Hi Dr,

 

For now the fuel pump is on the bottom and the pump and tank are secured so that inlet fitting -hose cant fly off, might leak but wont fail. That connection is the only reason I would consider putting the pump in the tank, if it leaks.  I'm custom building the tank so installing the pump internally would require access and a way of securing it, I'm hoping That fitting holds.  

I'm using nylon braided hose everywhere ..just because I like it  I think its rated for 300 psi..lol

 

Ok were going to definitely have to re visit that O2 voltage sensing idea, I like it alot!

I was reading somewhere or maybe it was a kit??  how you are able to change the voltage on the ambient air temp. sensor to +/- the fuel flow, I like that too. 

 

I'm officially excited! damn forgot to pick up a batterie..

Thanks again for all your help, please... stay safe... wear a mask!

 

 

[Skywagon]

Onyz....As you know the BMW engine will spin for in excess of prop speed so I suspect you are using a gear reduction.  The BMW will hit 7-9000 RPM and supersonic prop is less than half that.  What are you using for gear reduction?....and after this I won't take it off subject.  Just curious.

[OnyxWalker]

Hi, I'm using a  Rotax gear drive reducer 1 - 2.62. with an internal clutch which kicks in at 2100 RPM and a 3 blade 69" Euro prop, ground adjustable.

No sweat , ask me anything you want