My bladder ruptured,....

[Rougarou]

anybody got experience with a constant pressure valve for their water well?

 

I was down in the lower garage and kept hearing a ticking sound.  Grandboy was in the tub running the water and I found the well pump kept cycling.  So I check the pressure tank, and sho nuff, water coming out the air valve,.....which leads me to a bladder rupture. 

 

Rather than go with another tank, I'd like to explore the constant pressure valve as an option.

[Still CAL]

Don't know what that is but I'd be interested to hear. I've only had a problem with the check valve in the feed line to the pump. It got caked up with scale from the heavy amounts of gypsum in the water table out here (White Sands), causing bleed-by and water hammering as the pump cycled on and off. I was able to remove and clean the valve, stopping the cycling and hammering. For future reference I'd be interested in your idea, though.

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, Still CAL said:

Don't know what that is but I'd be interested to hear. I've only had a problem with the check valve in the feed line to the pump. It got caked up with scale from the heavy amounts of gypsum in the water table out here (White Sands), causing bleed-by and water hammering as the pump cycled on and off. I was able to remove and clean the valve, stopping the cycling and hammering. For future reference I'd be interested in your idea, though.

 

Thanks, I've replumbed all my outside faucets (four) to be direct feed from the well pump (the line going to the barn is a 2" line and actually has the best pressure 200ft from house), I see no reason to filter that water anyway and the pressure coming out of those are constant.  With the bladder pressure tank, we can tell when the pump kicks on/off.  About a year ago, I did my last bit of maintenance on the thing and set the pressures correctly.  I dunno how old my pressure tank is, but I'd like something that's a constant and not expensive.

[Still CAL]

Followed your link, interesting concept. I'm not sure it would work for my particular installation due to the cost of electricity through our co-op, although the vid has a convincing argument in their favor. My pressure tank is enormous; the system was installed when we built the house, but we were 1200 miles away at the time so were not around, and I would have been clueless anyway.

 

I will be looking into this more, though. Our well is about 500' below us in the canyon, and pumps water to a 3000 gallon holding tank further up our road, then gravity feeds to the house. We get about 20 psi just from gravity. I know we have some built-up scale in the water lines from the two years we ran without a softener, so we got a small amount of pressure loss from that. This constant-pressure valve may do the trick.

[ESokoloff]

Not an expert on wells but do know a thing or two on pumps/motors.  
 

I like the idea of constant pressure but would consider a VFD if pump motor was 3ph (VFD’s will produce 3ph with 1ph input) & pump curve allows it.

 

I’ve spent a bit of time on Youtube University & find much distaste for VFD’s.

Here’s why VFD’s aren’t always the best option.  

 

 

[Rougarou]

9 minutes ago, ESokoloff said:

Not an expert on wells but do know a thing or two on pumps/motors.  
 

I like the idea of constant pressure but would consider a VFD if pump motor was 3ph (VFD’s will produce 3ph with 1ph input) & pump curve allows it.

 

I’ve spent a bit of time on Youtube University & find much distaste for VFD’s.

Here’s why VFD’s aren’t always the best option.  

 

 

 

 

I looked at some of those before, but that's higher money and I'm cheap  frugal.  Primarily, it's just two of us in the house.  The kids, grandboys visit, but are not permanent fixtures.  So looking for an easier way out.  If I have to throw another pressure tank in, so be it, but I'd prefer not to have that simply for the chance of another bladder rupture.

[realshelby]

Well ( no pun intended....) here goes! I have lived on well water most of my life. Recently had a company come out and install a new pump into the well ( at 160' down ), new thingy at the top that bleeds air into the line when the pump shuts off, and whatever it needed inside the house to make it all like new. Before it failed instead of after. I also told them I wanted one of those blue tanks with the bladder and air valve at the top so I wouldn't have to fuss with the tank being waterlogged and the pump cycling too often. 

 

They knew a LOT more than I did! I didn't realize how bad some of my components were!

 

They HATE the diaphram tanks! Seems down here they trap hydrogen sulfide gas which stinks and that can and does end up coming through your water lines. Of course there is the issue with the diaphrams and keeping the air pressure they work against adjusted correctly. Like a tire....they don't maintain perfect pressure. I had the old style galvanized tall/skinny tank. I said...well, let's go ahead and put a new one of those in while we are at it ( 1996 installed ). NO, you don't want a new one. The new ones are only half as thick, if that, and tend to pinhole in 10-12 years. Yours will outlast you...they said. Turns out all my problems were due to the valve at the top of the well, and the float valve on the water tank that allows air to expell. This is how it regulates water level and they said I should never have to do anything unless I hear the pump cycle too much again. So, $2300 later, I should be good for many years. That was many months ago, and wow what a difference it all made. 

[realshelby]

I will add that I am stupid about what size pumps should be used. Bigger is best..right? I ordered a 3/4 hp pump. They installed a 1/2 hp pump and said the one size below that would have been just fine too. The bigger pumps can move too much water which can upset flow into the well. Plus something about the smaller pumps running longer once turned on seems to mean they can last longer. They have been doing water wells for decades.....Almeda Water wells. Tip of the hat to them. 

[ESokoloff]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

.  If I have to throw another pressure tank in, so be it, but I'd prefer not to have that simply for the chance of another bladder rupture.

Even the CPV systems require a tank (albeit minuscule in comparison) so you will still need to filter the water & keep tabs on the air pressure to get the longest life out of the tank. 
 

If you don’t have 3ph & not in need of a pump replacement, then that CPV sounds like the way to go.

 

i don’t like the positioning of the tank in this example.....

 

 

Too easy for debris to be trapped & impact the bladder. 
Top mounted would be the way to go if excepted.

[ESokoloff]

1 hour ago, realshelby said:

Plus something about the smaller pumps running longer once turned on seems to mean they can last longer

Yes bigger is not always better when it comes pumps (this includes air conditioning compressors) as it causes excessive cycles & pressure/temperature fluctuations.  
 

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, ESokoloff said:

Yes bigger is not always better when it comes pumps (this includes air conditioning compressors) as it causes excessive cycles & pressure/temperature fluctuations.  
 

 

I thought with HVAC, it was due to not being able to pull enough humidity out of the air.  As a bigger unit might get the temperature number down, but the humidity is still in the air "feeling" warmer.  With a smaller sized unit, it may run longer but it'll suck more humidity out of the air as well as lower the temps.

[ESokoloff]

2 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

I thought with HVAC, it was due to not being able to pull enough humidity out of the air.  As a bigger unit might get the temperature number down, but the humidity is still in the air "feeling" warmer.  With a smaller sized unit, it may run longer but it'll suck more humidity out of the air as well as lower the temps.

That too. 

[Rougarou]

On 12/14/2020 at 4:45 PM, ESokoloff said:

Even the CPV systems require a tank (albeit minuscule in comparison) so you will still need to filter the water & keep tabs on the air pressure to get the longest life out of the tank. 
 

If you don’t have 3ph & not in need of a pump replacement, then that CPV sounds like the way to go.

 

i don’t like the positioning of the tank in this example.....

 

 

Too easy for debris to be trapped & impact the bladder. 
Top mounted would be the way to go if excepted.

 

The little tank has no bladder and no air.

 

Anyway, finally bought the kit, I hate plumbing.  Wife and I sat most of yesterday figuring which parts we needed. 

 

Seems my line came into the house, then split to two spigots and traveled to the main water area, where it split again to go to other outside lines and the main house lines.

 

After playing all day yesterday trying to figure out which connectors, piping and tools we needed (yes, needed a $70 Pex crimper, ugh), we go to the nearest Lowe's and get all this junk (I hate plumbing).

 

Today was install day, all day cause I hate plumbing, and we had to make another trip to Lowe's due to some unforeseen issues with routing, also had to hit Home Depot too, 'cause Lowe's didn't have it all.

 

After tightening some weeps (I hate plumbing), it seems to be functioning as it should.

 

Time will tell if it does all that's needed,......did free up a wee bit of floor space due to getting rid of the busted bladder tank (30 gal),.....oh, and I hate plumbing.

[Hosstage]

And that's why plumbers get paid what they do!

[ESokoloff]

17 hours ago, Rougarou said:

The little tank has no bladder and no air.

Got a manufacture & part#?

I have to think this “little tank” has a compressible substance (albeit hermetically sealed). 

[Rougarou]

3 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

Got a manufacture & part#?

I have to think this “little tank” has a compressible substance (albeit hermetically sealed). 

 

Nevermind, it does, but there's no schrader valve to do any adjustments, that's what led me to believe no air,....but I be wrong.

[ESokoloff]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

Nevermind, it does, but there's no schrader valve to do any adjustments

Look under the blue plastic cap (but DON’T ask me about Cobra cars).  

[Rougarou]

Yep, there's a valve under the plastic cap.

 

Since installing a couple of months ago, we ran it for a few days, but the output seemed a bit low.  I upped the pressure a bit and then finally I cranked the pressure to 50/70 and all seems working as it should.  When the water is turned on, the little tank depletes fairly quickly and the pressure valve drops, kicks the pump on and the pump stays on maintaining the desired pressure until water is turned off.   Pump runs a wee bit more to fill the little tank and await its next use.

 

I just wished I'da thunk the mounting options out a bit more to make the whole assembly (this kit, UV filter and particulate filter) a more compact assembly.  Mebbe I'll waste a day and adjust all that,....but I really hate plumbing!!

[Hosstage]

Plumbing is easy, except for the plumbing part!

[Sonor]

My house came with a constant pressure system. When I have time, I will go get a picture of the unit. So far after 18 years in the house we have had no issues. Oh, well with the system that is. However, electrical variations (spikes, brown outs etc.) sometimes cause it to be what I refer to as my Microsoft system - it requires a restart by turning off the breaker for five minutes and then back on.