When will BMW make your GS-911 unusable?

[John Ranalletta]

Right to repair laws are being passed by voters but stymied by the auto industry.  Apple serializes parts in new phones so independent repair shops who are prohibited from buying Apple's software cannot fix them even when the repair is made with genuine Apple parts.  When will auto companies serialize parts or program ECUs to render 3rd party analytical tools unusable (GS-911)?  Soon, I think.  Auto makers have spent many millions to kill RTR in the small state of Massachusetts so far and aren't done, even when the law was approved by a vast majority of MA voters. (BTW, still think your vote counts?)  

 

Farmers are driving up the prices of older equipment because that equipment doesn't have software lockouts.  When asked why he bought bootlegged diagnostic s/w,  one farmer says, "It costs $2k just to haul my combine back and forth to the dealer for repair, let alone the repair cost."

 

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/12/automotive-alliance-manages-to-delay-revised-massachusetts-right-to-repair-law/ 

[roadscholar]

21 hours ago, John Ranalletta said:

When will auto companies serialize parts or program ECUs to render 3rd party analytical tools unusable (GS-911)?  Soon, I think.   

 

They def seem headed in that direction. I've been regressing toward analog cars that an old school tech can repair (roughly pre-2000, though mid/late 90's was when it all started). When the newer stuff is out of warranty it's going to be very expensive to keep running. A few years ago a big conglomerate bought the two MB, Lexus, and one Porsche dealership in town, at MB they raised the labor rate from $110. to $150./hr, the reasoning being the customers won't even notice. They basically have a monopoly, also most dealers mark parts up 10-20% over suggested retail, sometimes more. The motorcycle biz seems to lag behind the car business a decade or so but eventually emulates it.

 

'08 is the newest car I have and am lucky to have a buddy with access to the factory software, otherwise it'd be SOL..there have been a couple things on the diesel ML that only he could diagnose and repair.  

 

 

21 hours ago, John Ranalletta said:

Farmers are driving up the prices of older equipment because that equipment doesn't have software lockouts.  When asked why he bought bootlegged diagnostic s/w,  one farmer says, "It costs $2k just to haul my combine back and forth to the dealer for repair, let alone the repair cost." 

 

I've noticed a trend in the used car market, anything decent over 12-15 years old is starting to hold it's value with some specialty stuff increasing, albeit slowly (for now) I think partially for the same reasons. There's a sweet spot from late 80's to early 2000's (at least with MB's and BMW's) when the cars were well made and drive like modern cars but lack computers controlling everything. The nice ones are the ones enthusiasts are already looking for. Sure, newer cars have more doo-dads and gizmos people like but you don't need them like the manufacturers want you to think.

[Rougarou]

So long as the pirate bay exist, software to diagnose your vehicle will be available,......all depends on your morals and ethics.

[BamaJohn]

....a little thing but to the point:  my Miata and my Tundra service reminder can be reset by me without any tools or diagnostics.  But my BMW RT?...BMW forces us to use the dealer's computer or a GS-911 to reset the service reminder.

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, BamaJohn said:

....a little thing but to the point:  my Miata and my Tundra service reminder can be reset by me without any tools or diagnostics.  But my BMW RT?...BMW forces us to use the dealer's computer or a GS-911 to reset the service reminder.

 

I have one of my wife's old galaxy phones and us Motoscan.  Stupidly cheaper than the 911 and you can pull fault codes too if that's your thing (in app lifetime purchase).

[John Ranalletta]

1 hour ago, BamaJohn said:

....a little thing but to the point:  my Miata and my Tundra service reminder can be reset by me without any tools or diagnostics.  But my BMW RT?...BMW forces us to use the dealer's computer or a GS-911 to reset the service reminder.

 

Going back to my wife's 2004 and later her 2012 Subaru WRZ, when you added a set of tires with new TPMS, only the dealer could sync them to the ECU whereas my BMWs would recognize added TPMS units automatically.  So, what if a mfg's TPMS were serialized meaning one could only buy units from the dealer?  Possible?  It's on its way.  BMW floated Apple/Android Carplay annual subscription services. 

 

Buyers of used Teslas have had services turned off on resale (this may have been resolved).

 

Hyundai is dipping its big toe in this pool, too: "That means tomorrow’s car shopper might find themselves buying a vehicle that’s already fully loaded from the factory only find themselves forced to unlock heated seats or an upgraded sound system via monthly payments. In our estimation, the whole concept is ludicrously wasteful, diminishes the private resale values of automobiles, and seems like the kind of corporate nonsense reserved for dystopian fiction novels.

 

"On Tuesday, BMW announced it would be partnering with Amazon Web Services (AWS) to develop a cloud-based IT solution allowing it to integrate data and analytics into literally every aspect of the business “from vehicle development to after-sales services.”

[realshelby]

You bought it, you OWN it. John Deere really ticks me off over their treatment of farmers and their equipment. 

 

For better or worse, some of the stuff about unlocking options will come to be more common. Cheaper to make them all the same....then sell a subscription. 

 

Working on a vehicle using an independent source will have some hurdles to overcome. That is where the courts will be most active on this subject.

 

For decades it was thought there was no way to defeat the PATS systems on vehicles. This is the "chip" key and some other stuff  inside the ECM. Yet enterprising "hackers" have done just that and you can buy an engine out of a modern car and install it in your old street rod or project and make it run using the factory components. Maybe they can figure out how to "turn on" your new car stuff!

 

 

[John Ranalletta]

"That is where the courts will be most active on this subject."

 

Sure, but courts rule based on legislation and manufacturers are buying legislators.  In the tiny state of MA alone.  Automakers didn't spend the money to help customers.

 

Automakers, repair shops and politicos across the country poured millions into Question 1, which proposed expanding who has access to data on vehicular performance. The proponents raised $24.3 million and spent $21.3 million this election cycle, according to reports filed Oct. 20. The “no” side raised $26.4 million and spent $21.5 million as of October. Much of the money on both sides came from out of state.

[John Ranalletta]

33 minutes ago, realshelby said:

You bought it, you OWN it.  

 

That's really the crux of the issue.  We won't "OWN" it.  We'll be paying to USE it while trapped in the vendor's grasp as far as repairs.  Apple's there already.  Try getting your iPhone screen replaced anywhere but at the Genius bar where customers are "encouraged" to buy new to "avoid the tremendous cost of repair", which, ironically, is Apple's doing.  

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, John Ranalletta said:

 

That's really the crux of the issue.  We won't "OWN" it.  We'll be paying to USE it while trapped in the vendor's grasp as far as repairs.  Apple's there already.  Try getting your iPhone screen replaced anywhere but at the Genius bar where customers are "encouraged" to buy new to "avoid the tremendous cost of repair", which, ironically, is Apple's doing.  

 

Is that a very recent thing with Apple.  Daughter had her screen replaced within the last year at a kiosk in the mall.

[John Ranalletta]

36 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

Is that a very recent thing with Apple.  Daughter had her screen replaced within the last year at a kiosk in the mall.

 

Older iPhones can be repaired by independent repairers; however, Apple is serializing parts.  If not recognized as OEM and mated to the exact phone, the replacement will cause the phone to fail.  

 

 

 

[Rougarou]

15 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

 

Older iPhones can be repaired by independent repairers; however, Apple is serializing parts.  If not recognized as OEM and mated to the exact phone, the replacement will cause the phone to fail.  

 

 

 

 

Oh, it's the 12, she's got an 11.

 

Anyway, a quick look-see via duck-duck go finds that these guys do iphone 12 repair.  Mebbee they found a work around, I dunno.

 

Gotta be a workaround, looks like it started with the 11, yet she had her's fixed by one of those quickie kiosk in the mall.