Spline Failure - BMW's answer

[matanuska]

I just finished speaking with several SM’s at local BMW dealerships (who shall remain nameless) to get some insight on my spline failure. At first, I wasn’t going to say anything, but the more I think about it, I realize the information imparted to me is just too valuable for one man to keep to himself.

 

When I first asked about the failure on my K12RS, I (unfortunately) received the expected response:

 

“BMW has no evidence to believe that there is any problems with clutch splines failing prematurely, or any reason to believe that these parts require any more maintenance than…blah…blah…blah…blah.”

 

When I asked as to what could be the cause I was generally told that, for the K bikes, this was undoubtedly due to a previous owner with over enthusiastic throttle control or that the clutch MUST have been replaced before and the person (obviously not a certified BMW tech) didn’t properly grease the spline. Whatever – the whole lubrication debate again – I’m not going there.

 

However, it wasn’t until I pressed further about why so many spline failures on R bikes that I was able to uncover the ultimate nugget of wisdom. Apparently, R bike owners like to pressure wash their machines. This high-pressure spray infiltrates the clutch housing washing away the grease, leading to premature spline failure.

 

So there you have it – straight from the horse’s mouth. All you Oil-Heads need to stop washing your bikes. You are ruining your splines!

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

However, it wasn’t until I pressed further about why so many spline failures on R bikes that I was able to uncover the ultimate nugget of wisdom. Apparently, R bike owners like to pressure wash their machines. This high-pressure spray infiltrates the clutch housing washing away the grease, leading to premature spline failure.

 

So there you have it – straight from the horse’s mouth. All you Oil-Heads need to stop washing your bikes. You are ruining your splines!

 

Awesome.

 

It's a pretty contorted path on the RT to get in between the tupperware and footpeg plate, past the starter, and up to the clutch splines.

[smiller]

Well, I guess the pressure washer story is at least no more ridiculous than any of the other absurd rationales you were given. Do they really have no more of a grip on the issue than this, even after all this time?

 

All in all, sad... really sad.

[DEF]

It's a pretty contorted path on the RT to get in between the tupperware and footpeg plate, past the starter, and up to the clutch splines.

 

It is also a pretty contorted answer from a tech who should know better. I would tell the to quit blowing smoke up your dress and fix the problem. It is a warrantable cause.

[Reddog900]

What a CLASSIC answer

[ShovelStrokeEd]

So there you have it – straight from the horse’s mouth. All you Oil-Heads need to stop washing your bikes. You are ruining your splines!

 

I'm pretty sure that answer came from the other end of the horses digestive tract.

[DogGone]

Hot damn!

 

Mine's gonna last forever

 

pete

[nrp]

Oh c'mon - they must have done better than that!

 

Ya' gotta give them credit though, if they could keep a straight face.

 

What an insult to our collective intelligence.

[oldvic]

Dealing with BMW is increasingly leaving bad taste in my mouth. I noticed that the rear drive pinion seal is starting to leak badly on my '03 RT. The warranty expired last month. I have 16K on der Beemer. Took it to the local BMW dealership. He said no problem .... 2hrs/$200 .... so I bought a seal for $13 and will replace it myself. The seal should cost around $4 or so, but it's got BMW's markup included Oh yes ... picked up a BMW oil filter for $15 and 50 cents for the crush washer. Now that the bike's out of warranty I think I'll get a good quality oil filter that doesn't have BMW stamped on it for $6. Anyone know who makes/sells the special tool to remove the threaded dog eared seal retainer

[Alien_Hitchhiker]

Pressure wash? PRESSURE WASH?? PREE-ASH-SHURE WARSH???

 

Well dang, I just ride mine off the end of the pier. I thought everybody did.

 

BTW, Do you have that mechanics' phone number? Would you mind posting it here?

 

Thanks!

[SWB]

Yep, this has been a hot issue on the Oilhead's forum. For some reason, it put a burr under my saddle and I made a few calls of my own.

 

You've probably seen this thread, but FYI:

 

"R-Series Spline Failures; BMW's Response (thus far)"

 

Lots of the wrenches on this forum laughed at me for my naivete, for bothering to contact BMW Motorrad or expecting to get a straight answer. They were mostly right, but still, I got a phone call and had a decent conversation with BMW USA's customer service manager.

 

My thread also references work done by Mark Bohn, which is thought provoking if not definitive. I believe the spline failures (at least on the oilheads) are due to misalignments built into the transmissions due to faulty, mis-caste cases, and that Mark proves this.

 

If I had a spline failure tomorrow, I'd call the BMW Motorrad USA Customer Service number, request to speak with the manager, remind him of our conversation 4-5 months ago, and ask BMW to either fix the problem or prove the cause wasn't case and shaft misalignment. I believe there's an adequate body of evidence available to prove my case in court (perhaps small claims), and I'd be more than willing to sue if BMW attempted to brush me off.

 

On the other hand, if BMW measured the shaft and case alignment, and they came up "true", I'd pay for the repairs (after I had an independent mechanic run the same measurements). That's the difference between saying "hey.. something's wrong, it's happening to everyone, and you should fix my bike free of charge", versus saying "hey, THIS is what's wrong, the ONLY POSSIBLE cause is a manufacturing defect, I can PROVE it in court, and neither BMW nor I want that kind of negative publicity about BMW products hitting the Internet".

 

It's not about getting $$$ from BMW; it's about doing the right thing. I'm not saying "blackmail" BMW, I'm just saying that merely speaking with a bunch of BS'ing Service Managers who have never performed the analysis that Mark has on a single Beemer with damaged splines, won't gain you any success in getting BMW's help with the repairs. BMW's certainly decided to adopt the "squeaky wheel" method of resolution, rather than issuing a service bulletin which could end up obligating BMW to a recall and huge inspection and repair bill on bikes which are 95% or 97% error free. BMW won't "do the right thing" with this spline problem, for whatever reason. It's a lousy business strategy, and I might end up riding a Honda down the road, but for now I enjoy the BMW Oilheads, intend to keep riding mine, and am budgeting for my next upgrade.

 

Anyway, since that's BMW's method of technical problem resolution, "be that squeaky wheel". Call the customer service manager at BMW USA.

[RTCHIEF]

Spline failure, clutch discs, transmissions, drive shafts, and differential failures are basically caused by hard shifting and improper clutch engagement. Rapid acceleration/deacceleration ain't good either.

 

JON

[Stan Walker]

differential failures

 

Safe, we don't have a differential.....

 

Stan

[RTCHIEF]

Stan, what is the correct terminology? I thought they were called differentials because they didn't rotate at a 1 to 1 ratio.

[Stan Walker]

Final drive (and failures) we do have

 

Stan

[russell_bynum]

All you Oil-Heads need to stop washing your bikes. You are ruining your splines!

 

Hey Tony...ya hear that? If that's true, then the splines on your RT should last indefinitely.

 

[Tony_K]

Hah! I was going to pressure wash it too but my washer wand bit the dust the very day I was going to do it.

 

It's all good! Thank you MC Hammer!

[axabmw]

This high-pressure spray infiltrates the clutch housing washing away the grease, leading to premature spline failure.

 

So there you have it – straight from the horse’s mouth. All you Oil-Heads need to stop washing your bikes. You are ruining your splines!

 

There's hope for me after all. I was nearly going to to give it it's annual bath today

 

BTW Why do most BMW dealers clean the bikes with pressure washers then???

[Paul Mihalka]

Stan, what is the correct terminology? I thought they were called differentials because they didn't rotate at a 1 to 1 ratio.

Differntials are in cars and I think are called that because they can drive the left and right wheels at different speeds. I guess most common name on the bikes is "rear drive".

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Stan, what is the correct terminology? I thought they were called differentials because they didn't rotate at a 1 to 1 ratio.

 

A differential drive unit uses one input shaft to drive two output shafts, and permits a speed differential between the two output shafts, thus the name.

 

BMW bikes (apart from the F650) are equipped with a "rear wheel drive," according to the manual; most folks here call it a final drive. With only one input shaft and one output shaft (on which the rear wheel is mounted), it's not a differential unit.

[kingpinofdisks]

Hard shifting - hard accel/decel - those are my DAILY routines on the bike - great, that means I will probably blow out the entire drivetrain before EOL on my bike

 

I was hoping to get 125K miles on the bike before getting a new one. I guess I will keep my fingers crossed!

[DogGone]

Don't throw in the towel just yet. I noticed it getting more difficult to shift, feared the worst... took it in and they adjusted the shift linkage, problem solved.

 

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't get a new bike

 

 

pete

[RFW]

Apparently, R bike owners like to pressure wash their machines. This high-pressure spray infiltrates the clutch housing washing away the grease, leading to premature spline failure.

 

Complete rubbish!

 

Bob.

[Mulepick]

Do you guys have caps or plugs on/in your TDC securing hole? If so, does anyone have a part number? If no cap or plug, why couldn't water get into this plug and affect the clutch splines?

 

Photo attached, germane hole on top.

 

Bob

[ShovelStrokeEd]

There is no room for water in my clutch housing, it is full of those pesky caps. The only oilhead I own that doesn't have at least 2 of those things down inside the bellhousing is the 1100S. I just never bothered to use the TDC mark on that bike. A chopstick down the spark plug hole works for me.

[leikam]

Complete rubbish!

 

Not so! There's a self-serve car wash down the street and after each and every ride, I give my precious bavarian sled a thorough rinse and often spend half an hour with the wax. I make extra sure to get a good long shot in all the crevices and up under the tupperware too. An old airhead rider turned me on to the R-bike ritual of the pressure wash and wax and I have to say, this second RT is bound to last longer than the first. I wash it twice as much.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Do you guys have caps or plugs on/in your TDC securing hole? If so, does anyone have a part number? If no cap or plug, why couldn't water get into this plug and affect the clutch splines?

 

Photo attached, germane hole on top.

 

Bob

 

With that hole uncovered, one might conceivably moisten the flywheel gear teeth, but you'd be hard pressed to get water to even reach the splines, five inches upward and inboard, never mind actually rinsing off any lubricant.

 

Especially on an RT, where everything in your photo is well-shielded by tupperware and a footpeg plate.

[matanuska]

...If no cap or plug, why couldn't water get into this plug and affect the clutch splines?

I think this is unlikely for a couple of reasons:

 

First, if water infiltration / corrosion really were the cause, I think it would be pretty self evident. Many of the parts in the clutch are steel and susceptible to corrosion. I would think in every case of spline failure, we would hear a comment from the owner something along the lines of: “I just opened my clutch housing today and the whole thing is filled with RUST!” Instead, despite all of the detailed discussion in places like this, the cause is still somewhat of a mystery.

 

Second, the supposed water ingress pathways are a well-known design characteristic of every Oilhead clutch housing. Therefore, we should expect to see a significantly higher number of spline failures in all Oilheads – 10%, 15%, 20%, etc. even higher numbers in wet climates or among owners who drive in the rain. In fact, the number of failures would be so high and the problem would be so well publicized that NO ONE in his or her right mind would ever buy an Oilhead. BMW would have a well-deserved reputation as a maker of totally unreliable motorcycles and/or would have taken swift, decisive corrective action long ago to protect their market share.

 

Instead, despite all of the discussion here, we still seem to have a relatively few number of affected machines and the occurrence seems to be randomly distributed. I’ll bet if you did a search to determined the actual number of true spline failures on this discussion board, the number would still be less than 20 or 30 (if even that). That’s an awfully small number considering the tens of thousands of Beemers on the road.

 

DR

[JonathanE]

. . . I wash it twice as much.

 

Hmmnnn . . . what's two times zero?

 

The only time a bike of mine has ever been violated by the pointy end of a pressure washer, was when I got the rear tire installed in BC on my way back from Alaska. The shop mechanic refused to put the wheel on his tire changer without washing it first. I can't imagine why.

 

I think I'll wash my bikes this weekend. The bugs are covered with more bugs.

[RFW]

Complete rubbish!

 

Not so! There's a self-serve car wash down the street and after each and every ride, I give my precious bavarian sled a thorough rinse and often spend half an hour with the wax. I make extra sure to get a good long shot in all the crevices and up under the tupperware too. An old airhead rider turned me on to the R-bike ritual of the pressure wash and wax and I have to say, this second RT is bound to last longer than the first. I wash it twice as much.

 

I wasn't saying that water wouldn't get in there. It is the story that water would somehow seek out the splines and damage them enough to cause spline failure, yet not affect any other (more fragile) parts of the clutch assembly, that is "rubbish".

 

Bob.

[Mulepick]

Actually, I'm not concerned about getting oil in the clutch area. I just wondered if this was another part I had to hunt up; a plug for that hole. It appears I don't... woo hoo.

 

 

bob