Please help 07 R1200RT nightmare

[Eddie Kinney]

Dear fellow  BMW owners, I am at a loss for ideas. Here’s the problem. I own a 2007 R1200RT. About two years ago it stalled on the highway for no reason and I got it home. It wasn’t running right. I sent it to the BMW Dealer. They said it was just bad gas and flushed the system. Last year after not running the bike for four weeks it failed to start again. I tried draining the tank and putting in fresh gas but it didn’t start, I had it towed to the dealer. They said it was just bad gas again. Now just a few weeks ago it was having a hard time starting and couldn’t even get it Tonkin to ride it up the trailer to go to the shop. When I got it there the bike ran fine for the mechanics. They had it a week and couldn’t find any issues even after put on the computer. I got it back and it sat for three weeks. I then went to ride it and as I was going to the gas station it started slaloming out again and having a hard time starting it. Again after I brought it back again they can’t find anything wrong with it. Anyone know what could be the issue as to why it acts up once in awhile? Strange. I was thinking it was the fuel pump or fuel pump control sensor? I told dealer to check it but they can’t find anything wrong. Any ideas appreciated. Thank you Eddie Kinney 

[lkraus]

A failing fuel pump controller is very possibly the culprit, though I would have expected complete failure in much less than two years after the problem began.

 

Google "BMW FPC bypass" for instructions for a temporary fix. If the problem persists, it's not the controller. If the controller is bad, Euro Motoelectrics can save you about $55.

[Still CAL]

Hello Eddie and welcome to the forums! Gurus will be chiming in shortly but they're going to want to know some history to know which direction to go: mileage, prior owners' work, what's been done besides petrol drain and fill, outside versus inside storage, riding conditions when the problem occurs. Anyway, they'll get you sorted.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Eddie Kinney said:

Dear fellow  BMW owners, I am at a loss for ideas. Here’s the problem. I own a 2007 R1200RT. About two years ago it stalled on the highway for no reason and I got it home. It wasn’t running right. I sent it to the BMW Dealer. They said it was just bad gas and flushed the system. Last year after not running the bike for four weeks it failed to start again. I tried draining the tank and putting in fresh gas but it didn’t start, I had it towed to the dealer. They said it was just bad gas again. Now just a few weeks ago it was having a hard time starting and couldn’t even get it Tonkin to ride it up the trailer to go to the shop. When I got it there the bike ran fine for the mechanics. They had it a week and couldn’t find any issues even after put on the computer. I got it back and it sat for three weeks. I then went to ride it and as I was going to the gas station it started slaloming out again and having a hard time starting it. Again after I brought it back again they can’t find anything wrong with it. Anyone know what could be the issue as to why it acts up once in awhile? Strange. I was thinking it was the fuel pump or fuel pump control sensor? I told dealer to check it but they can’t find anything wrong. Any ideas appreciated. Thank you Eddie Kinney 

Afternoon  Eddie 

 

As Larry mentioned it could be your FPC (Fuel Pump Controller) but the dealer should have found that as a failing FPC almost always stores a related failure code. 

 

You still might have a contaminated fuel issue, not starting before the trailer ride but starting & running OK after a trailer ride could be telling us that trailer ride sloshed the fuel around in the tank enough to mix  the water with the gasoline  enough to allow engine starting.  

 

You might try siphoning as much fuel out of the tank as you can into some clear containers then allow it to settle out, then see if there is water under the fuel in the clear containers. Get the siphon hose all the way to the bottom of the tank on both sides as water likes to settle out in that R/H lower tank extension. 

 

Otherwise do try an FPC by-pass  just to eliminate that as the possible cause. 

 

If nothing found then you should find another repair shop (even an independent one) as your dealer doesn't seem to have qualified technicians. 

 

It it is still at the dealer you might ask them to allow it to sit (unmoved) for a couple of days before trying to start it. 

[David13]

As to the fuel pump controller, mine went out intermittently.

 

It stopped, then started and ran, then quit.  Then ran some more.

 

That was my experience in Mexico.  After replacing the fuel pump controller, I had no further problem. 

 

That is, until years later in the Mojave desert in 115 degree heat.  Again it would stop and start then finally stopped completely and would not start again.  Until the next morning.

 

At that time the dealer said they replaced the fuel pump controller in the tank.  An alleged second controller in the tank?  That's what they said, and said they repaired or replaced it "under recall" but wrote on the invoice that it was under "warranty" which was long out of warranty.

 

And charged $120 for analysis.

 

I'm thinking you might have a fuel pump controller, the one under the fairing, or like real says, a hose in the tank.  Supposedly those go out.

dc

[dirtrider]

Evening  Eddie 

 

On the chance that you do find water in the fuel tank then you need to find out how it got in there. 

 

If you didn't put bad gasoline in the tank at a fill-up & with the persistent problems you seem to be having  then there is a chance that the fuel cap fill ring drain hose is not installed correctly inside the fuel tank.  

 

There is a small drain hole in the fuel cap fill ring that is mostly to drain away any water the collets there during washing, or if motorcycle is left out in the rain.   It can also drain away a little fuel over-fill but really isn't large enough to do much good with that. 

 

That drain hole in the fuel fill ring drains into a hose on the bottom side of the filler assembly, then that hose connects to a pass-through fitting on the fuel pump pass-through (top L/H side on fuel tank). That hose actually passes through the fuel inside  the tank. 

 

If for some reason that hose was knocked loose inside the tank when the fuel pump was replaced or when a fuel strip was replaced you could end up with water entering the fuel tank through that displaced hose. 

 

Just something to keep in mind IF you find water inside the fuel tank. 

 

This can be checked without removing the tank or fuel pump but the person doing the checking needs to fully understand how that drain functions & how to find the drain hose outlet then pressurize the hose while blocking off the other end.

 

Or you might try squirting some WD-40 into that fill ring drain hole (will take a fair amount sprayed in) then see if the WD-40 drips out on the L/H side of motorcycle just behind the rider left foot peg. If it doesn't then you either have a rusted shut pump pass-though fitting (kind of common) or the hose is not correctly connected inside the fuel tank. 

 

 

[Carlisja]

Bad gas is so unlikely that I might have believed one diagnosis but not two.   The FPC does not always throw a code and even when it does, sometimes it is seemingly unrelated and innocuous.   The bypass can be installed using switched power and just forget about the controller.  I did that for months before I figured out how to keep water off the controller.  I replaced it with a new one and it has been fine ever since.

[TEWKS]

Ah yes, bad gas. I rode with a guy that built a POS custom Harley that broke down on more than one occasion. Sometimes far from home. Anyway his go to was always  “BAD GAS”!  Funny, because I fueled up at the same stations. 

[Eddie Kinney]

Hey guys thanks for all the replies and ideas. I’ll give you more details, I bought the bike in 2009 with 2,100 miles in like new condition. I changed oil every 3,000 miles. I keep it in a garage attached to my house . The bike is a 2007 and has 37;500 miles. I don’t ride the bike that much except fir mostly on trips for a week long. The bike never had a problem ever. But one day two years ago I rode it after it sat for about a month ( with fuel stabilization in gas ). It died out on the highway a mile from my house. I nursed it home and had a BMW dealer two it to the shop. They told me they drained the tank and it was just bad gas. Ok I was ok with that response and reason. Last November I rode it and filled tank at same gas station all my friends did in same time. It sat only for three weeks. I went to start it and it started and ran fine. I turned it off and tried to start it later that day and it refuse to start . I drained the gas as much as possible and put in fresh 100 octane Cam 2 gas. It started immediately but only fir a few seconds then shut off again. I trailered it to the BMW deadlier. They told me it was bad gas again. They replaced the gas and said  it was Fine. I rode the bike the following spring and did a week trip with it in the summer. Then this fall I rode it to Vermont no issues at all. I filled the tank with non ethanol gas and it sat in garage for about 3 weeks. Then the problems started again it wouldn’t start . I had it towed to dealer and it ran fine fir then

m. They put in computer and found nothing wrong. I got the bike back and it sat in garage for two to three weeks and when I rode it it started stalling again on the road for no reason. It’s been at the dealer again it’s been there for two weeks and they can’t get it to act up. What should I do? Should I just have them put in a new fuel pump and fuel pump controller to rule it out. I’m not rich but I can’t deal with this problem any longer, I can’t ride the bike like this. Sorry this was so long. 
respectfully Eddie Kinney

 

 

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Eddie Kinney said:

What should I do? Should I just have them put in a new fuel pump and fuel pump controller to rule it out. I’m not rich but I can’t deal with this problem any longer, I can’t ride the bike like this. Sorry this was so long. 
respectfully Eddie Kinney

 

 

Morning Eddie 

 

You might request that they allow the motorcycle to sit for a while (without moving)  THEN see if they can find the problem. It seems to act up for you when the motorcycle isn't moved for a while. 

 

You might also suggest that they check the fuel tank fill ring drain for "correctly passing" through the fuel tank.  (they should know how to do that without removing the fuel tank) 

 

It your motorcycle still  has the original silver FPC then just have them install the later black (updated FPC). Even if you still have the original silver FPC & it isn't the problem it sure could be at about any time.  (later black high-fin FPC is WAY more reliable)

 

It could also be something like the crankshaft sensor or camshaft sensor acting up but those don't usually "just suddenly"  start working after a trailer ride. Those also usually leave a failure code trail but not always with the camshaft sensor. 

 

Another place to look is the side stand switch, but when that acts up you usually don't even get the starter to turn the engine over. 

 

It doesn't sound like the emission evap canister, or evap  system  (tank vent) being plugged as your fuel pump is inside the fuel tank & can produce well over 50 psi of pressure. That coupled with a soft plastic fuel tank will allow it to run for very long time & lots of miles before it can suck the sides of that plastic  tank in enough to stop the engine. 

 

Personally if I was working on that motorcycle I would allow it to sit on the side stand for a few days then  take a fuel sample using the in-tank pump to provide the fuel sample. (that will tell the story on the fuel part of it)-- Both delivery rate & possible contamination. 

 

I would also grab all the stored failure codes to see if that points to something. 

 

If those were OK then I would probably  try a new (known good) FPC, or try a FPC by-pass. In your case due to it seemingly only acting up after sitting for while I would probably go the (known good )  FPC route over the by-pass route. 

 

It seems to me like your repair shop (or dealer) just isn't putting much effort into trying to find your problem. 

 

 

 

[Eddie Kinney]

Thank you so much for that very valuable information I will pass it on to the BMW service manager

 

Eddie Kinney

[Indy Dave]

Hi @Eddie Kinney . Can you please describe in as much detail as possible what happens when the bike dies, and how it ran (and if you did anything to keep it running) when you nursed it home? When it refuses to start, do you open the throttle any while trying to get it to start? Does it either run normally or not at all, or does it also run poorly at times?

Edited December 7, 2020 by Indy Dave
cleared up question

[Eddie Kinney]

The bike either starts for a second then dies or when it runs I go down the street and it will just stall out like a few weeks ago while slowing to pull into a gas station. The only thing I did twice since riding it last without a problem was washing it with the garden hose. The washing of the bike may have something to do with the issues. The day I nursed it home I think it was running crappy as if it wasn’t getting enough gas. Kind of like a non fuel injected bike running out of gas before you throw it on reserve. I’m thinking maybe telling the BMW dealer if they can’t find the issue just to throw in a new FPC anyway to rule it out. I don’t think I can afford a complete fuel  pump as well because I think they cost $450.

[Indy Dave]

Well - your bike is under a (second) fuel pump recall. Call your dealer in the morning with your VIN, BMW sent out notices a few months ago, but did not have a 'solution'. Parts are now available, so maybe, just maybe this will resolve your issue. Both my 06 & 2010 RT's are under the recall, so you should be too.

 

So your bike doesn't buck or surge when it's acting up?

[Eddie Kinney]

Thanks for advice guys and bro on recall I’ll check it out I am extremely grateful for everyone’s time and kindness

Eddie Kinney

 

 

[TEWKS]

22 hours ago, Eddie Kinney said:

The only thing I did twice since riding it last without a problem was washing it with the garden hose. The washing of the bike may have something to do with the issues. 

Did you wash it and then put it away without at least running the motor, or better yet taking a quick lap around the neighborhood to dry things out? Different beast but the only time my old Harley wouldn’t start is when I did that. Moisture got into someplace it didn’t belong. 

[Peter T]

I slightly different suggestion based on your symptoms.  A number of years ago I was driving a R1100RT across the US and while near Denver, the bike suddenly stopped.  Had it towed to the local BMW dealer who 'fixed it'. Next day while underway for only 20 minutes, same issue.  Towed back to the dealer.  They replaced the HES sensor, a small part that senses Top Dead Center.  Fixed everything and I drove it happily for many years after that.

[StuGotz]

2007 FPC is the key phrase here....Search the internet, you will find your answer.....https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=2007+BMW+R1200RT+FPC&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

And heed David13's sage advise.

 

MB>

Edited December 8, 2020 by mbelectric
Clarify web search

[Indy Dave]

IIRC, the Hall Effect Sensor issue isn't applicable to the 12xx series R bikes.

 

Here's the recall notice:

RCLRPT-20V471-1867.PDF

 

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Peter T said:

I slightly different suggestion based on your symptoms.  A number of years ago I was driving a R1100RT across the US and while near Denver, the bike suddenly stopped.  Had it towed to the local BMW dealer who 'fixed it'. Next day while underway for only 20 minutes, same issue.  Towed back to the dealer.  They replaced the HES sensor, a small part that senses Top Dead Center.  Fixed everything and I drove it happily for many years after that.

Morning Peter 

 

That was on your 1100RT, the OP's 2007 1200RT doesn't have an HES (Hall Effect Sensor) the 1200 hexhead uses a combination of Crankshaft position sensor & Camshaft position sensor. Does about the same thing as an HES but totally different  designs & slightly different output signals.   

[Still CAL]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Peter 

 

That was on your 1100RT, the OP's 2007 1200RT doesn't have an HES (Hall Effect Sensor) the 1200 hexhead uses a combination of Crankshaft position sensor & Camshaft position sensor. Does about the same thing as an HES but totally different  designs & slightly different output signals.   

Thanks again DR for your knowledge of the difference between the model runs; it really helps those of us new to things BMW. I have a 97 and an 08 RT so I need to know those subtle changes. Cheers. 

[Ponch]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Peter 

 

That was on your 1100RT, the OP's 2007 1200RT doesn't have an HES (Hall Effect Sensor) the 1200 hexhead uses a combination of Crankshaft position sensor & Camshaft position sensor. Does about the same thing as an HES but totally different  designs & slightly different output signals.   

 

Here's an off question, can those sensors be used to detect chain stretch?

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, Ponch said:

 

Here's an off question, can those sensors be used to detect chain stretch?

Morning Ponch

 

Possibly IF you used a 2 channel oscilloscope  & took very accurate sensor comparison readings on a new (upstretched chain engine) as a baseline, then compared that early data to later findings. That would only tell you one side cam chain or front chain (or both combined).

 

Be better off just checking  it the old mechanical way.   

[Ponch]

3 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Ponch

 

Possibly IF you used a 2 channel oscilloscope  & took very accurate sensor comparison readings on a new (upstretched chain engine) as a baseline, then compared that early data to later findings. That would only tell you one side cam chain or front chain (or both combined).

 

Be better off just checking  it the old mechanical way.   

I think that some car engines have this capability.  The computer can get data that can see if something is off. 

[dirtrider]

52 minutes ago, Ponch said:

I think that some car engines have this capability.  The computer can get data that can see if something is off. 

Morning Ponch

 

That would more  be on engines with variable cam timing that are set up to monitor that area. 

[Eddie Kinney]

Hi fellas Eddie Kinney here for update on my 2007 BMW R1200RT. It’s been at the BMW shop now for two full months. They called me a few days ago and said they never found anything wrong with. My bike. They let it sit for a week or so and started it rode fine. They let it run for 30 minutes to an hour no problem. I told them to put in a new FPC even though the computer said the original one. The part costs $247.00 and 60.00 labor. I thought I’d try this at least to rule out a future problem. 
someone mentioned washing the bike after riding it last and that is true. The only thing I did was wash it after it ran fine from the last ride. Water migh5 be the cause I don’t know. 

[Ponch]

Yes, some earlier FPCs have been known to have issues with water. 

[Bigfish]

my 2¢ -

 

Make sure your spark plugs ( primary and secondary) are snapped on tight and that your Throttle Body vent hoses are attached.

 

I bought a used 1150RT bike and the BMW dealer performed a 24,000 service. Put all the Tupperware back on. Previous owner paid for that service because he wanted to make sure all was good for me as it was my fist bike... albeit used.

 

I'm pretty convinced the dealership did this on purpose and would have charged me big bucks to fix it. But luckily I found those two blunders after riding for a month and thinking I was just a bad rider. I couldn't believe how much better the bike worked after attaching the Starboard secondary plug (which was just hanging there and not attached)  then reconnecting the Port side throttle body vacuum hose that had been left disconnected.

 

This was my first lesson to do the maintenance myself.