People are Crazy

[TEWKS]

Extreme Living is so close to dying, I guess. 

 

 

[Hosstage]

That is insane! It looks like a lot of fun, just not for me.

[TEWKS]

I still love certain roller coasters (no more spinning or loops) but the weightless drops are awesome. I love twisting the throttle in the twisties. I’ve even flown a dirt bike sixty or so feet but this stuff, is way next level!  I wish I could, but I can’t. 

[Hosstage]

I hate to be Debbie Downer, but sadly a high percentage of those guys do not survive.

[TEWKS]

I believe that. ^

[Rougarou]

2 hours ago, Hosstage said:

I hate to be Debbie Downer, but sadly a high percentage of those guys do not survive.

 

Would you rather die doing what you love or in a hospital bed fully injected with high level pain killers?

 

Hmmm, I hope I go at speed.

[Hosstage]

I'm right there with you. Actually surprised I made it this far.

Good thing they didn't have wing flying when I was younger!

[Hosstage]

Can I take the painkillers recreationally instead of waiting til the end? I should at least be able to enjoy them if I'm going to take them!

[TEWKS]

21 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

Hmmm, I hope I go at speed.

Close, I hope I go speedy. 

[John Ranalletta]

I'm always triggered by, "Dying doing what he loved."  Bet he wouldn't have loved it so much if he knew it was going to kill him.

[TEWKS]

10 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

 Bet he wouldn't have loved it so much if he knew it was going to kill him.

Oh, I bet they all know death is so close, they probably feel it grabbing at them. They’re pretty smart imbeciles.  I hate the stories of the poor septic workers drowning in a shit tank. 

[Rougarou]

12 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

I'm always triggered by, "Dying doing what he loved."  Bet he wouldn't have loved it so much if he knew it was going to kill him.

 

Ya know, combat kills, but some of us freely go fully knowing that it can actually kill you.  Some people actually run into burning buildings knowing that fire or the roof collapse can kill them .  Some people put on a blue uniform and go out on the streets knowing that they may not come home after work.  Some people put on a leather suit and ride motorcycles at 200 mph for the thrill of it.  So, I'd say, some people would rather die doing what they love, knowing that what they love can kill them and knowing what they do may be the last time they do it.

[Rougarou]

38 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

Can I take the painkillers recreationally instead of waiting til the end? I should at least be able to enjoy them if I'm going to take them!

 

Depends on your state, if you go to Oregon, you can partake in some mushrooms and maybe hallucinate you ain't in pain and dying.

[TEWKS]

7 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

Ya know, combat kills, but some of us freely go fully knowing that it can actually kill you.  Some people actually run into burning buildings knowing that fire or the roof collapse can kill them .  Some people put on a blue uniform and go out on the streets knowing that they may not come home after work.  Some people put on a leather suit and ride motorcycles at 200 mph for the thrill of it.  So, I'd say, some people would rather die doing what they love, knowing that what they love can kill them and knowing what they do may be the last time they do it.

Webster’s Dictionary ^  “Thrill“ 

[John Ranalletta]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

 

Ya know, combat kills, but some of us freely go fully knowing that it can actually kill you.  Some people actually run into burning buildings knowing that fire or the roof collapse can kill them .  Some people put on a blue uniform and go out on the streets knowing that they may not come home after work.  Some people put on a leather suit and ride motorcycles at 200 mph for the thrill of it.  So, I'd say, some people would rather die doing what they love, knowing that what they love can kill them and knowing what they do may be the last time they do it.

 

The key word in your post is "can".  No one expects to die unless lying in bed with a terminal illness.  Some of us are more comfortable than others with risk based on our respective competencies, but no sane person would base jump without a parachute.  Of course, lots of guys get to room temperature just after exclaiming, "Hey, watch this!".

[Rougarou]

1 minute ago, John Ranalletta said:

 

The key word in your post is "can".  No one expects to die unless lying in bed with a terminal illness.  Some of us are more comfortable than others with risk based on our respective competencies, but no sane person would base jump without a parachute.  Of course, lots of guys get to room temperature just after exclaiming, "Hey, watch this!".

 

I'd guess that when adrenaline junkies jump, ride, hold my beer, there is a part that says, "this may be my last hurrah".  Don't think that infantrymen don't go on "shaky" patrols thinking that they may not come back.  No one knows when the last ticket will be punched, but many have an idea that they're squeezing the handle to the puncher and making indentations,......so, dying while doing what I love would be much better than bed sores and waiting.

[TEWKS]

12 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

 

 but no sane person would base jump without a parachute.  Of course, lots of guys get to room temperature just after exclaiming, "Hey, watch this!".

 

John, meet Travis.... I can’t say if he’s sane or not but he has carved out a pretty good life doing some insane things! 

 

[John Ranalletta]

2 hours ago, TEWKS said:

 

John, meet Travis.... I can’t say if he’s sane or not but he has carved out a pretty good life doing some insane things! 

 

 

 

More power to him, but I wouldn't underwrite his life insurance.  The exception proves the rule.

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

10 hours ago, TEWKS said:

Extreme Living is so close to dying, I guess. 

 

 

Motorcycles certainly aren't without their danger, but on an hour-for-hour basis, I'll wager the average biker is safer than the average flying squirrel.  If suit-flyers flew like we rode, they might have a better track record - but they tend to fly like squids slaloming through city traffic, deliberately pursuing margins of inches while traveling about 100 MPH.  

 

The successful runs are fun.  The unsuccessful ones, not so much.  Here's Jeb Corliss breaking both his legs during a jump off of Table Mountain South Africa:

 

 

 

And then there's this guy in France who flew cross-slope when he should have flown downslope.  The trees give him a hug at about 0:50.  Broken ribs and other bones, liver lac, and other souvenirs.

 

 

 

 

 

[szurszewski]

7 hours ago, John Ranalletta said:

No one expects to die unless lying in bed with a terminal illness.

I have similar feelings to yours regarding the “at least they died doing what they loved,” stuff, but I definitely disagree with your statement on expectations. 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

12 hours ago, Rougarou said:

dying while doing what I love would be much better than bed sores and waiting.

 

If I get the same number of years either way, then sure, I'll take the "dying while doing what I love" route.  But looking at that list of wingsuit deaths I linked to, I wonder how many of them, if they had a chance to choose again, would have preferred another 50 years of life (even if it ends in bedsores and waiting) instead of dying as young men.  

[TEWKS]

Oh I bet if they had that second chance and could see their previous life, they’d choose a different (slower) route. Only if they could be fully convinced that it’d be their same fate on a second chance at life. Hard to change the young mind sometimes.

 

Then you have the addiction afflicted young that die with needles in their arms. They had friends die the week before in the same fashion. 

 

Life is a strange thing.

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

If I get the same number of years either way, then sure, I'll take the "dying while doing what I love" route.  But looking at that list of wingsuit deaths I linked to, I wonder how many of them, if they had a chance to choose again, would have preferred another 50 years of life (even if it ends in bedsores and waiting) instead of dying as young men.  

 

I don't disagree that they may want an additional 50 years, but that's a natural thing everyone wants to live longer and to be on this blue blob "longer".

 

But if you could ask them, I throw a buck on the bet that the way they died is the way they wanted to go, short span of life or not.

 

Adrenaline junkies know the risks and know that each stunt is their last stunt unless they survive to do another.  

 

We can go back and forth, but since we can't ask the dead, we shall never know.

[Rougarou]

9 hours ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

Motorcycles certainly aren't without their danger, but on an hour-for-hour basis, I'll wager the average biker is safer than the average flying squirrel.  If suit-flyers flew like we rode, they might have a better track record - but they tend to fly like squids slaloming through city traffic, deliberately pursuing margins of inches while traveling about 100 MPH.  

 

The successful runs are fun.  The unsuccessful ones, not so much.  Here's Jeb Corliss breaking both his legs during a jump off of Table Mountain South Africa:

 

 

 

And then there's this guy in France who flew cross-slope when he should have flown downslope.  The trees give him a hug at about 0:50.  Broken ribs and other bones, liver lac, and other souvenirs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet, when they crash and get burned, they continue, fully knowing the risks and near death experiences as well as knowing, likely personally knowing the ones that didn't make it.

 

 

[realshelby]

There is an answer for some. Those that have cheated death don't always come back saying they will do it again......

 

 

[TEWKS]

This is bit morbid, a depression suicide story taught me about the human body wanting to survive. Young guy depressed, (depression) (maybe some drug use) (relationship issues) not sure on the latter. Anyway he got access to a handgun and put it to his chest. The EMTs told somebody that on the way to the hospital the kid was begging them to save him. He didn’t know how bad he wanted to live until it was too late. 

 

I assume the wing suit flyers would have that same thought, but for a much shorter period of time. 

[Sonor]

Stolen from another website, but appropriate for this discussion.  At least as far as the flying suit is concerned.

"If, as Jung and Freud believed, dreams represent our unfulfilled desires, then dreaming of flying is of little transcendence: flight has always been humankind’s great desire. In fact, according to a study at MIT, the frequency of dreams of flying has increased significantly since the 1950s when aviation technology revolutionized the world. That’s to say, flight has become more and more embedded in our psyches as one of the possibilities open to us and thus, it’s on hand as a resource when we begin to dream. Freudian theory also suggests that a dream of flying is a recollection of childhood memories: games of being launched into the air or rocked, things that children quite enjoy. But also, and above all, Freud argued that the dream of flight is the result of nocturnal erections (male and female), which explains the feeling of the “overcoming of gravity.” More recent cognitive psychology, however, argues that dreaming of flying is not necessarily a product of a “continuity hypothesis” (which suggests that our dream experiences are but an odd mix of our experiences of waking life). Rather, such dreams reveal something about our minds and the way we think."

[Rougarou]

19 minutes ago, realshelby said:

There is an answer for some. Those that have cheated death don't always come back saying they will do it again......

 

 

 

You cheat death every day,.....yet, you go back and do it again, and again, and again, but we don't go  for what has been converted into a "safe" activity.  Risk is a self determined thing.  What Pat sees as a standard day at work with a house fire, the mass population see as dangerous, deadly even.  What we see as risky in the wingsuit folks, they see as fun, exciting and have mitigated their dangers to the best of their abilities.

 

 

[realshelby]

Yes...and No....

We can train, maintain equipment, buy proper gear....and what cannot happen still does. That is when you might realize you cheated death. It won't come when you expect it. And you won't know how you will handle it until you have been through it. 

 

Guys like Travis Pastrana are missing a fear gene!

[Rougarou]

4 minutes ago, realshelby said:

Yes...and No....

We can train, maintain equipment, buy proper gear....and what cannot happen still does. That is when you might realize you cheated death. It won't come when you expect it. And you won't know how you will handle it until you have been through it. 

 

Guys like Travis Pastrana are missing a fear gene!

 

I think their fear gene is fully intact, they, like many in "dangerous" professions/hobbies, manage it properly.

 

Omar Bradley:

 

"Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death"

 

 

[Hosstage]

I don't so much fear death, as I do the pain of death. Make it quick and painless, I'm ok with it.

Just make sure there is one hell of a party when I'm gone, a little crying, a lot of laughing, and a whole lot of drinking. Irish wake mandatory ! 

[Mike]

Cool. Really cool. But, I think I’ll sit it out. 

[TEWKS]

 

1 hour ago, Hosstage said:

 

I don't so much fear death, as I do the pain of death. Make it quick and painless, I'm ok with it.

 

A well worn story here but I think death comes very quickly and painless in a traumatic incident.

 

I crashed my dirt bike while racing back in 2013 and spent ten days in the hospital.

 

As time passes the clarity of the incident is fading but during and right after the crash my memory was erased thirty seconds before my lights went out. (medical term)  

 

To this day I can’t remember the crash, no memory of the impact or feeling any pain. Until I signed the refusal of treatment form by EMS. that is. (think I’d of known better)  

 

Anyway using my experience as a reference, I think most traumatic passings happen so quick there’s no pain involved. 
 

A risk assessment took place soon after recovery and road riding with some adventure touring sprinkled in seems to be an acceptable compromise for me.  

BTW, I didn’t pass, I’m still here. 

 

 

 

[Hosstage]

I also had an incident, but remember it pretty clearly, bad accident. I was trying to regain control from driving like a lunatic, until at the last second I realised this was going to be bad, very bad. At that very instant, I accepted that it was probably over, no way to walk away from it. As I saw the trees approaching head on, I just let my body go limp, shut my mind down to accept what comes, quick bit of melancholy, and then noise.

Then it was quiet, I opened my eyes, no real pain, and the dome light was on the floor, as was I. This confused me. Turns out it wasn't the floor, it was the roof, the car upside down. 

Walked away, but knew then what it felt like to have accepted death, because I had. No way I was getting out of that alive, and yet I did. 

So I'm not afraid of it, and I'll push it off as long as possible, but I know what's coming.

Just please make it quick when it does.

 

The upshot? Out in the middle of nowhere, crashing on a dark country road, I happened to have landed in a Bible camp. Yes, a Bible camp in the middle of nowhere. People there almost instantly to help me out.

God really does look out for kids and fools.

[Rougarou]

I distinctly remember every part of my accident.

 

Friday Memorial Day Weekend 2000-We were convoying to Murphy, NC from Camp Lejeune for a weekend wheeling trip.  I, my wife, twelve year old daughter, nearly two year old daughter in my '95 Wrangler, pulling a brand new pop up camper.  My jeep, I'd just completed a four inch lift.  Since it had leaf springs, I pulled the track bars off (didn't need them), but, I left the bolts in place (never know when you'll need a bolt).  My buddy, had a 97 Wrangler, coil springs.  He just completed his lift.  His wife was tagging along in the Z71 that they had. 

 

So, as it goes, the 97 Jeep started the death wobble, real bad so we pulled on the side of I40 near Benson, NC.  I assess the sitch-e-a-tion and notice that the bolt for the track bar came out (I guess he didn't use locktite, I think I called him a dumbass).  I tell him I know where a bolt is.  We commence to get the tools to do the work.  My youngest daughter is in the Jeep watching Teletubbies (I rigged a small portable TV/VCR in there), the oldest daughter went into the Z71 with her friends.  My wife and buddies wife were in the ditch area smoking.  My buddies jeep is in the back, the middle is the Z71 and the lead vehicle with camper is mine.

 

We got tools in hand and I sit, head level with the front bumper, passenger side.  My buddy sticks his head in the wheel well to put the box wrench on the back of the bolt, then pulls his head out.  I bend over and start turning the socket wrench, BAM, I feel like I'm in a dryer and tumbling.  In my head, I'm yelling "what the fuck is going on", training kicks in from the Helo-dunker, which is "don't move until all violent motion has stopped",...well, all violent motion had stopped so I commence my low crawl out.  I'm now crawling from under the very front of the camper and from my limit viewing, it looks like an explosion had happened, I'm now on the interstate side of the shoulder.  Meanwhile, people are running over to me telling me to lay down, I don't much agree with that request as I try to get up, but I'm being held down by good Samaritans.  What felt like just a very few minutes EMT was sweating on top of me.....I'm telling them I'm fine to get up and move (I gotta assess this scenario), but they keep me down.

 

Now, the background activity.  My wife comes running over to see how I was (she said she never heard a scream like I did), Haleigh, the oldest sees me and I tell her to back off into the ditch (she actually replied with a "yes sir" without prompting).  When my wife gets to me, I ask "Where's Raven", she was watching Teletubbies.  The wife immediately departs.  She later told me that when I asked, she looked up and saw my daughter slumped over in her car seat, still strapped in.  The hard top was destroyed. 

 

My buddy, ends up reaching up and pulling my youngest out of the car seat (shouldn't have, but did anyway).  EMT's grab her, she's out cold, crying, out cold, crying....I can hear that!

 

EMT's work on me as they do not know if I'm "damaged"inside, so they backboard me and put the throat-choker on me.  They backboard my youngest girl and put the choker on her.  Helo's inbound.  I was told after that there were discussions of who was going on Dustoff to fly to a trauma center (ended up in Duke).  My buddy is bleeding nastily from his leg and some other stuff.....he pushes them to take me and my daughter.

 

We fly, she goes first and when I get rolled into the ER, she's there crying "daddy", that is a killer when you are completely helpless and your not quite two year old is strapped down, unknown if she is messed up.  They take her to get scanned/ray'ed, then they take me to get ray'd.

 

Meanwhile, EMT's and first responders from Benson left, my wife had to contact a taxi service to get her and my oldest to Duke.  My buddy ended up being transported to the Benson hospital.

 

What happened was a rolleback wrecker with a car on top and pulling one, had the driver "falling asleep" at about 1400 during the day.  He side swipes the back jeep, peels the Z71 sheet metal and rolls over the camper pushing my Jeep about 50ft while I tumble around underneath it.  Then, he cuts left, flips into the median, throws the vehicle he was towing across the east bound lane.........he walks out of the Benson hospital that night.

 

For my youngest, concussion and observation for a day/night at Duke, she's good.  Me, meh, I'm good.  I had a BFGoodrich Mud Terrain imprint on my back, scrapes (stitches) on my head, road rash up and down my right arm and right leg.  My left had had the skin pulled where you could see the bone.  Skin graft took care of that but still, the fingers don't work all the way right and the back side of the hand, if hit at just the right point will nearly put me on my knees in pain,.....I'm good.  Dr's report had something to the effect of "amazing, no internal injuries, no broken bones".  ER staff actually asked what kind of bike I was riding (due to all the road rash),.......hmmm, maybe they knew my future endeavor.  My wife, PTSD, she saw it all in slo-mo, she got gooder.  My buddy, he had 30something stitches in his leg and some other cuts and bumps, split second before, his head in the wheel well, coulda looked like Ichabod Crane.  The oldest daughter had no injuries as the sideswipe of the Z71 wasn't enough to jolt her and her friend.

 

Ya, we kinda cheated death a bit that day, no we weren't expecting to.  I tell my wife not to worry about me as I'll jokingly tell her "I'll let you know when I'ma die and this (state my moment) ain't it", every phone call in Iraq was that way.  I'd let her know when I was going in to Fallujah and let her know when I had left Fallujah. 

 

From the accident, I'll still pull off on the shoulder if I have issues, I may be more situationally aware and observant, but in the end, on the side of the road, whatcha gonna do when the big truck comes in at 70mph plus. 

 

 

[TEWKS]

7 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

Omar Bradley:

 

"Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death"

Wow, that’s quite a story above, Richard! ^ Glad everything turned out ok!

(the quote)
I can’t equate this in military terms but in the fire service your training at the fire academy is an awesome tool to have.
 

Like anything it fades over the years. Yeah you refresh on certain things throughout which is good but coming out of the academy you were sharp with a tool and comfortable in your gear.

 

Now, performance when scared counts in the fire service too. (not as much I’m sure) 

 

In the few situations where the adrenaline rush had simmered and the heart rate climbed because you found yourself in a tight spot. Thankfully your dull, faded, long buried fire academy training comes rushing back to the surface. 

 

I don’t know what all that means, just an observation I’ve seen a couple of times.

[Rougarou]

For my first duty station, I was to be assigned to the U.S.S. Saratoga as part of the Marine Detachment.  Part of the school is fire fighting, a three day crash course in it, nothing compared to what everyday fire suppression specialist do, but good training.  In San Diego, where one of the Navy's firefighting schools is, there was this metal building that had grates for floors, which was over water.  They'd pump fuel in to sit on top of the water, torch it and train us how to put it out.  Canned training, no wood roofs collapsing, just fuel on fire.  We'd practice the spraying the bottom of the fire to put it out each rotating as lead on the hose.  As a 18yo, it was fun, a blast actually.  All that gear does offer protection from the heat, not a lot, but it sure ain't like hanging around a pallet bon fire.  Anyway, what you do, can be called to do, on a daily basis, far outweighs what I did as far as war goes.  Our thing happens every now and then, your call to action can be a daily occurrence. 

 

Performance, bravery, those words are interchangeable

 

A few years ago, I looked into being a volunteer firefighter, but reading through the requirements, you can't have hearing aids.  That shut me down, but I wonder, 'cause I can hear the male voice very good without them, is if I can actually still roll with it.

[TEWKS]

Marines make good firefighters.  We have six right now and a few others just retired. A small scattering of the other branches. It’s a fifty man department. 

[Rougarou]

5 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

Marines make good firefighters.

 

I think it's cause fire melts crayons,....that be bad!!!

[Hosstage]

21 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

I think it's cause fire melts crayons,....that be bad!!!

That was pretty funny!

[Red]

On 11/22/2020 at 1:05 PM, Rougarou said:

 

Depends on your state, if you go to Oregon, you can partake in some mushrooms and maybe hallucinate you ain't in pain and dying.

Under the supervision of an MD and for now only for psychological problems.  Give it a few years.  It'll be on supermarket shelves.

[TEWKS]

This is a great go, no go story. Daddy gator could have been lurking!  What a save! 

 

 

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, TEWKS said:

This is a great go, no go story. Daddy gator could have been lurking!  What a save! 

 

 

 

And didn't let that cigar go.

 

Panama 1989, we were  guarding the Arraijan Tank Farm, which was part of the Navy's fuel stores for the region.

 

Anyway, we'd have to do LPs (Listening Posts) at night (four man team), which are strategic location throughout the area where you just sit and "listen" for activity.  The PDF(Panamanian Defense Force) would come on the property and scout the area, you could hear their ironwood "taps" for movement.  Right after dark, they'd move from the Pan-American Highway into the area, then right before dawn, you'd hear the taps going from the fuel farm out to the Pan-American Highway.  We weren't allowed to patrol at night, but could use illumination at will.  Unfortunately, as soon as you direct fire a 40mm illum round at the sound, they'd lay flat until the illum went out.

 

One particular evening, while moving to one of the locations, I rounded a big rock.  As soon as I came round, a cute little Caiman was staring up at me.  From the video above, it was about the same size threeish-fourish feet.  So, being young and crayon deficient at the time (they melted in the heat), we surrounded the little guy.  Once caught, we taped the mouth shut with electrical tape (ya, we carry weird stuff), noosed it with 550 cord and had junior troop dump his pack to host the little caiman.  The other end of the 550 cord was tied to a tree.  Upon pickup the next morning, we brought the little guy back to the COC (command operations center), which was a sandbagged area in a grove of trees.  Within the area of the COC was a "hole of water", staked the 550 cord near the hole and let our pet go.  Every now and then, we'd throw it some chow to eat.  Eventually, we let it go.

 

Also caught down there were a boa constrictor (caught while hacking the brush between the fenceline and treeline), tenish feet and a sloth (caught after it fell from the tree and was seen hanging from the power line).  The sloth, a nasty animal, since it was dangling from the power line, we took a long wooden pole, four Marines held a poncho below, and we toggled the thing alloose.  Caught in the poncho, then we placed it next to the tree it fell from.  A few hours later, the little guy was up the tree a bit, and fell again, this time to the ground, we left it alone as we watched it slowly, ever so slowly climb again.  What a way to pass the time.

[TEWKS]

The nickname Sloth, or Three Toed may have been tagged to one or two individuals on the dept over the years. 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

So, being young and crayon deficient at the time (they melted in the heat)

 

I didn't understand the repeated crayon references.  Finally had to look it up.

 

https://www.ourmilitary.com/why-do-marines-eat-crayons/

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2020/08/05/someone-finally-made-edible-crayons-for-marines/

https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/do-marines-really-eat-crayons-only-the-red-ones/

 

 

 

[mickeym3]

Thanks Mitch, I was afraid to ask. Proudly served in the Air Force (yep, identify with the Rob Lowe AF caricature in the sandbox link since I went in at 135 lbs.) and served as a medic supporting the 555th fighter squadron and Air America forces just inside the Thai border from Laos. Worked on and interacted with a lot of bad ass guys and while I’d never disrespect any branch if we would have ever been cut off in one of the villages we frequented there was never any doubt about which bunch of bad ass guys I’d want them to bring in. Marines and Navy Shore Patrol guys were the very description of bad ass. Hats off to Richard and others who chose that path. 
 

 

 

[TEWKS]

Crazy and dumb?  

 

[RandyShields]

23 hours ago, TEWKS said:

Crazy and dumb?  

Oh, he was just getting in some stoppie practice.

Edited November 25, 2020 by RandyShields
typo

[Hosstage]

I'd be yelling "Do it again!"

I'm am instigator that way.

[Rougarou]

Sooooo, did he continue to ride away or go down........riding away is a successful jump, no matter how ugly, going down,.....well, that'd be much laughter for the screwed up jump