Shaman97 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 So, it would appear that I need a new clutch. Not surprising, given the bike has >50k miles and slips a bit in 5th on the freeway when giving it a bit of the throttle. Question is: what are the required vs. recommended parts to buy before starting the job? Naturally, will need a new clutch disk (#6). Also was told that I need to install new bolts (#3 or #9?). Dealership says I need a new spring (#4) ...'since you're already in there" but that almost doubles the cost of the job. Any experience on this? Thanks in advance. Link to comment
Mulepick Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 So, it would appear that I need a new clutch. Not surprising, given the bike has >50k miles and slips a bit in 5th on the freeway when giving it a bit of the throttle. Question is: what are the required vs. recommended parts to buy before starting the job? Naturally, will need a new clutch disk (#6). Also was told that I need to install new bolts (#3 or #9?). Dealership says I need a new spring (#4) ...'since you're already in there" but that almost doubles the cost of the job. Any experience on this? Thanks in advance. You'll need new 9's for sure. Like some cylinder bolts, they take a good bite once then are misshapen. You'll only need new 3's if you're taking the flywheel off. Unless there is a flywheel problem or you want to change the rear engine seal, there's no need. I agree with replacing the spring but don't get why it doubles the cost. Get some decent spline grease (I used BMW) for all the splines you'll disconnect plus some good moly (Honda) for the clutch spring, and clutch rod. Check rubber stuff and bearings on your way in. If you're like me, you don't want to be coming back this way again soon. Finished my clutch job last week. Bob Link to comment
Boffin Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 New #9 bolts, new plate + new spring. If you also want the other plates buy the kit - it is cheaper. To save time and effort, do not split the shaft/rear drive etc, pull the whole tranny/final drive as one piece. I used 110mm long M8x1.25 bolts with the heads cut off and a slot in the end as guides dor the tranny remove/refit. Pull the clutch slave cylinder and pushrod before pulling the tranny, that way it can't get bent. Allow a good 8-10 hours for the job. I used the BMW spec spline grease (from motobins) for the splines and spring. Good luck Andy Link to comment
Rich06FJR1300 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I would take the flywheel off just to make sure the rear seal isn't leaking, if not, just put it back on with the new bolts. You know the old saying, but just for piece of mind. Also, i would remove the tranny as a separate piece to check all input and output shaft seals. As said before, you don't want to go back in there once its all back together. just my 2 cents, Rich Link to comment
Ken H. Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'm a bit surprised at the replies saying replace the diaphragm spring. Why? Unless it shows signs of being overed and a resulting loss of temper, or cracking, it should be no where near the end of its service life. I don't think anyone has mentioned Honda Molly 60 to lube the splines during reassembly. Link to comment
Shaman97 Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 My bad on the spring cost - it's actually $47, compare to the clutch plate at $145 - I was looking at the wrong price. I also am surprised that the spring would need to be replaced at this point of the bike's life. Are they typically bad, or is this a pre-emptive replacement, meaning the spring will now go bad before the new clutch plate wears out? Thanks, Bob Link to comment
Stan Walker Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Reference to Service Bulletin #2818 for the following: Starting with production dates of Dec 1997 BMW changed the clutch disc and pressure plate fitted to a new design. For earlier bikes the clutch disc and pressure plate must be replaced as a pair. On earlier samples, installing the new disc without replacing the pressure plate will not allow the clutch to completely disengage. --------------- I replaced the whole clutch set using the BMW kit on Jan's '96. It's just money... Stan Link to comment
DEF Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I don't think anyone has mentioned Honda Molly 60 to lube the splines during reassembly. They have now and, its Honda Molypaste 60, available at Honda shops and many other motorcycle stores. Use it with confidence on all BMW driveline splines. Link to comment
RFW Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 You need a need friction disk. And that is probably all you need. After all, the clutch worked just fine until the friction material wore a bit thin, so why would you suddenly need to replace a buch of other stuff that worked just fine?? Sure, you should check the throwout bearing to see if it doesn't spin smoothly, and ensure the pressure plate surfaces are reasonabley decent, but as I said, they have been like this for thousands of miles and worked fine before so why waste money replacing them? Bob. Link to comment
Shaman97 Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 Reference to Service Bulletin #2818 for the following: Starting with production dates of Dec 1997 BMW changed the clutch disc and pressure plate fitted to a new design. For earlier bikes the clutch disc and pressure plate must be replaced as a pair. On earlier samples, installing the new disc without replacing the pressure plate will not allow the clutch to completely disengage. Stan, Now, that's a key piece of information. I have a '97 - how do I find the production date? Thanks, Bob Link to comment
Stan Walker Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 After all, the clutch worked just fine until the friction material wore a bit thin, so why would you suddenly need to replace a buch of other stuff that worked just fine?? I wonder if he has actually torn into it yet, if not, he doesn't know if the disc is thin, oiled, or having some other problem. Stan Link to comment
Stan Walker Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 how do I find the production date? It should be stamped into the same plate that has your VIN, up on the right side mounted to the headstock. Stan Link to comment
RFW Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I wonder if he has actually torn into it yet, if not, he doesn't know if the disc is thin, oiled, or having some other problem. Point taken! Maybe all he needs to do is soak the friction disk in lacquer thinner overnight to leach out some oil that has leaked on it! (By the way, that works very well for this problem). Bob. Link to comment
Shaman97 Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 I wonder if he has actually torn into it yet... Not yet. Link to comment
bmwmick Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Reference to Service Bulletin #2818 for the following: Starting with production dates of Dec 1997 BMW changed the clutch disc and pressure plate fitted to a new design. For earlier bikes the clutch disc and pressure plate must be replaced as a pair. On earlier samples, installing the new disc without replacing the pressure plate will not allow the clutch to completely disengage. Stan, Now, that's a key piece of information. I have a '97 - how do I find the production date? Thanks, Bob Bob, Just enter the last 7 digits of your VIN here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do?vin=&kind=M&arch=0 Down at the bottom of the page or the right side will give you it's birthdate. Mick Link to comment
Shaman97 Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Mick, Thanks, According to the site, it was produced in 11/96. Looks like the kit is the factory recommended way to go. Bob Link to comment
stagrider Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Glad I read this post. I am just waiting to put my 1994 back together after getting its gearbox rebuilt. While I have it all apart I ordered a new friction plate and notcied it looked different to the one I took out. I rang up the supplier to query it and they said it would be fine ... but I can tell you I would have been really pissed off if I'd put it all back together only to find the clutch not working properly. I'll be calling them on Monday to upgrade to the full clutch kit. Tell you what, I'm never buying another BMW model that's near the start of the production run. The number of things on this bike that I have had to replace only to be told - "they fixed that on the later models". Never again ! Mike P Link to comment
stagrider Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Actually, I Just read the complete service buletin http://www.nmpcs.com/r11r/clutch.pdf#search='Service%20Bulletin%202818%20BMW ' and it appears that in the USA you started using a Valeo friction plate. In the UK we still use the Sachs/BMW plates so for me I should be OK with just the plate (and I am doing the spring too). MikeP __________________ Link to comment
bmweerman Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 here's the list I generated from doing the job myself the first time... Hello ewd... I just did the spline lube job as a newbie and it was quite an experience. One of the things that made it slow and kind of frustrating for me is I didn't know in advance what tools and misc stuff I would need and kept having to stope to assemble the next set of items. Below is a list of the stuff I needed...just kept track on my laptop as I went. May or may not be helpful... If you have any questions about it PM me . Good luck!! Tools Decent set of metric hex bits and sockets 30 mm socket 12 mm` hex tool Clutch alignment tool Clamps for gas lines Heat gun or torch 2 ratcheting straps 17mm long socket if one forgets, as I did, to adjust the clutch before putting bike back together. Touque Wrench(s) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parts Clutch disk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Misc…Stuff 3 7mm 40mm 1.0 pitch bolts for starting transmission reasemble Assorted Washers Long 8mm 1.25 pitch carriage bolts with heads cut off for transmission removal …instilattion. Vice Hack Saw Moly lube Honda Moly 60 Paste Krytox Carb cleaner for cleaning splines Wd 40 for breaking loose exhasust Support for swingarm Cardboard box for final drive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ Useful Information http://www.onlineconversion.com/ 1 pound foot = 1.355817952 Newton Meter 1 Kg-m = 9.80665 Newton Meter Clutch plate bolts require 6mm hex tool torque spec 18 Nm = 13.276 ft pounds \ Rear Shock Absorber Bolts 50 Nm = 36.9 ft/pd Frame Bolts 4 Torque = ? Muffler (Silencer) Clamp Bolt 50 Nm =36.9 ft/pd Rear brake caliper mouning bolts 40 Nm = 29.5 ft/pd -------------------- http://weckerleys.smugmug.com If someone wants to mind meld with me should I tidy up first? Hello ewd... I just did the spline lube job as a newbie and it was quite an experience. One of the things that made it slow and kind of frustrating for me is I didn't know in advance what tools and misc stuff I would need and kept having to stope to assemble the next set of items. Below is a list of the stuff I needed...just kept track on my laptop as I went. May or may not be helpful... If you have any questions about it PM me . Good luck!! Tools Decent set of metric hex bits and sockets 30 mm socket 12 mm` hex tool Clutch alignment tool Clamps for gas lines Heat gun or torch 2 ratcheting straps 17mm long socket if one forgets, as I did, to adjust the clutch before putting bike back together. Touque Wrench(s) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parts Clutch disk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Misc…Stuff 3 7mm 40mm 1.0 pitch bolts for starting transmission reasemble Assorted Washers Long 8mm 1.25 pitch carriage bolts with heads cut off for transmission removal …instilattion. Vice Hack Saw Moly lube Honda Moly 60 Paste Krytox Carb cleaner for cleaning splines Wd 40 for breaking loose exhasust Support for swingarm Cardboard box for final drive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ Useful Information http://www.onlineconversion.com/ 1 pound foot = 1.355817952 Newton Meter 1 Kg-m = 9.80665 Newton Meter Clutch plate bolts require 6mm hex tool torque spec 18 Nm = 13.276 ft pounds \ Rear Shock Absorber Bolts 50 Nm = 36.9 ft/pd Frame Bolts 4 Torque = ? Muffler (Silencer) Clamp Bolt 50 Nm =36.9 ft/pd Rear brake caliper mouning bolts 40 Nm = 29.5 ft/pd -------------------- http://weckerleys.smugmug.com If someone wants to mind meld with me should I tidy up first? Hello ewd... I just did the spline lube job as a newbie and it was quite an experience. One of the things that made it slow and kind of frustrating for me is I didn't know in advance what tools and misc stuff I would need and kept having to stope to assemble the next set of items. Below is a list of the stuff I needed...just kept track on my laptop as I went. May or may not be helpful... If you have any questions about it PM me . Good luck!! Tools Decent set of metric hex bits and sockets 30 mm socket 12 mm` hex tool Clutch alignment tool Clamps for gas lines Heat gun or torch 2 ratcheting straps 17mm long socket if one forgets, as I did, to adjust the clutch before putting bike back together. Touque Wrench(s) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parts Clutch disk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Misc…Stuff 3 7mm 40mm 1.0 pitch bolts for starting transmission reasemble Assorted Washers Long 8mm 1.25 pitch carriage bolts with heads cut off for transmission removal …instilattion. Vice Hack Saw Moly lube Honda Moly 60 Paste Krytox Carb cleaner for cleaning splines Wd 40 for breaking loose exhasust Support for swingarm Cardboard box for final drive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ Useful Information http://www.onlineconversion.com/ 1 pound foot = 1.355817952 Newton Meter 1 Kg-m = 9.80665 Newton Meter Clutch plate bolts require 6mm hex tool torque spec 18 Nm = 13.276 ft pounds \ Rear Shock Absorber Bolts 50 Nm = 36.9 ft/pd Frame Bolts 4 Torque = ? Muffler (Silencer) Clamp Bolt 50 Nm =36.9 ft/pd Rear brake caliper mouning bolts 40 Nm = 29.5 ft/pd -------------------- http://weckerleys.smugmug.com If someone wants to mind meld with me should I tidy up first? Hello ewd... I just did the spline lube job as a newbie and it was quite an experience. One of the things that made it slow and kind of frustrating for me is I didn't know in advance what tools and misc stuff I would need and kept having to stope to assemble the next set of items. Below is a list of the stuff I needed...just kept track on my laptop as I went. May or may not be helpful... If you have any questions about it PM me . Good luck!! Tools Decent set of metric hex bits and sockets 30 mm socket 12 mm` hex tool Clutch alignment tool Clamps for gas lines Heat gun or torch 2 ratcheting straps 17mm long socket if one forgets, as I did, to adjust the clutch before putting bike back together. Touque Wrench(s) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parts Clutch disk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Misc…Stuff 3 7mm 40mm 1.0 pitch bolts for starting transmission reasemble Assorted Washers Long 8mm 1.25 pitch carriage bolts with heads cut off for transmission removal …instilattion. Vice Hack Saw Moly lube Honda Moly 60 Paste Krytox Carb cleaner for cleaning splines Wd 40 for breaking loose exhasust Support for swingarm Cardboard box for final drive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ Useful Information http://www.onlineconversion.com/ 1 pound foot = 1.355817952 Newton Meter 1 Kg-m = 9.80665 Newton Meter Clutch plate bolts require 6mm hex tool torque spec 18 Nm = 13.276 ft pounds \ Rear Shock Absorber Bolts 50 Nm = 36.9 ft/pd Frame Bolts 4 Torque = ? Muffler (Silencer) Clamp Bolt 50 Nm =36.9 ft/pd Rear brake caliper mouning bolts 40 Nm = 29.5 ft/pd -------------------- http://weckerleys.smugmug.com If someone wants to mind meld with me should I tidy up first? Ust my $.02 hope this helps annd good luck! Link to comment
Stan Walker Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 If someone wants to mind meld with me should I tidy up first? Based on this post, yes!!! Stan Link to comment
bmweerman Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 If someone wants to mind meld with me should I tidy up first? Based on this post, yes!!! Stan Hey,if somebody had offered me a list like the one I sent out before I tore into my bike the first time it would have been worth it''s wieght in gold to me. What I offered my not have have been of value to anyone else, and that's fine..I just thought we were here to offer constructive advice and encouragement to each other...Not make smart ass comments about the value or pervieved lack of value of someone elses input. Link to comment
Stan Walker Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Not make smart ass comments about the value or pervieved lack of value of someone elses input I wasn't picking on the value, but the tidiness..... Have you looked at it? You repeated yourself about six times...... Didn't mean you hurt your feelings, sorry if I did. I just thought it was an interesting signature, all things considered....... Stan Link to comment
KMG_365 Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I just thought we were here to offer constructive advice and encouragement to each other...Not make smart ass comments about the value or pervieved lack of value of someone elses input. Well I thought so too, but there will always be those who cannot refrain from making smartass comments. Speaking of that: You need a need friction disk. And that is probably all you need. After all, the clutch worked just fine until the friction material wore a bit thin, so why would you suddenly need to replace a buch of other stuff that worked just fine?? Sure, you should check the throwout bearing to see if it doesn't spin smoothly, and ensure the pressure plate surfaces are reasonabley decent, but as I said, they have been like this for thousands of miles and worked fine before so why waste money replacing them? Bob. So Bob, I wonder if you ever change your oil or other fluids . . . like brake fluid? I mean, they were all working fine before . . . . [/smart ass comments] Link to comment
Shaman97 Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Cameron, Thanks for the list - it's this type of info that makes a tough mechanical job a bit easier. As for Stan's comments, I got a chuckle out of it after having to scroll through your message. I had a similar problem on another board where my response to a question auto-repeated about 7 times. The reader thought I was copying and re-copying the response that many times, but I wasn't. Thanks again, Bob Link to comment
Timmer Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 As a recent "sidewalk superintendent" for another R1100RT clutch repair, one other problem cropped up. The O-rings for the air intake tubes (between the air filter box and the fuel injectors) we old and loose. We had a heck of a time reinstalling the intake tubes because the O-rings were old and stretched. You may want to just buy a new pair and save yourself the grief when you have to reassemble everything. Link to comment
Shaman97 Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 Tim, Always good to hear the voice of experience when starting one of these jobs. Thanks for the info. Bob Link to comment
bmwmick Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Bob, You can read about the clutch change here: https://www.bmwmc.net/uploads/tm5/go2MCsi.pdf Read Bulletin 2818 Mick Link to comment
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