70W-80 Hypoid Axle G3

[Kashmir]

Hello All. Has anyone found an alternative for the BMW 70W-80 Hypoid Axle G3 fluid? (P/N: 83 22 2 413 512) I see that it is a GL5 fluid and Redline makes final drive fluid within this range. At $60 for 500 ml seems kind of steep.

[Bill_Walker]

I don't have an answer to your question.  Apparently this is your first post, so welcome to the board!  

 

I do need to point out that the "Product Reviews by Members" subforum is intended for just that, product reviews.  It's not a place to ask questions.  Since your question is not specific to a particular BMW model, I'd guess it belongs in the "Bike Related Things" subforum, one level up from this, or else in "Motorcycle Talk".

[Kashmir]

Thank you for the reply and information. 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Kashmir said:

Hello All. Has anyone found an alternative for the BMW 70W-80 Hypoid Axle G3 fluid? (P/N: 83 22 2 413 512) I see that it is a GL5 fluid and Redline makes final drive fluid within this range. At $60 for 500 ml seems kind of steep.

Afternoon Kashmir

 

Is this for a BMW Wethead or some other BMW model? There is a (BIG) difference between  GL-3 and BMW's G3 as they are two are two different things.  API rating GL-3 is an obsolete gear oil. 

"G3" is the BMW name for their current gear oil. They've offered G1, G2, G3, G4, G5. I believe the current BMW gear oils carry an API rating of GL-4  or  GL-5. The GL-4 is usually for older (dry clutch) transmissions and GL-5 is usually for final drives. 

 

If you go with Red Line just be sure it is a GL-5 as most Red Line 70W-80 is (was anyhow) a GL-4, GL-4 is ok in transmissions but is a little lacking in gear tooth scuff protection for a Hypoid type final drive. 

[Kashmir]

This is for a 2020 RT1250RT. This is what the manual calls for. $60 for 500 ml! BMW must need money to pay for weeping/leaking from calipers :-)

[Twisties]

I looked up what I think is the owner's manual for this bike and for the rear axle differential the specification reads:

 

"SAE 70W-80 / hypoid axle G3"

 

 

[dirtrider]

17 minutes ago, Twisties said:

I looked up what I think is the owner's manual for this bike and for the rear axle differential the specification reads:

 

"SAE 70W-80 / hypoid axle G3"

 

 

Evening Twisties

 

The BMW G3 is not the API viscosity, it is part of the gear oil name, the BMW G3 gear oil is actually an API GL-5 gear oil. 

 

A Motorcycle is single track vehicle (only 1 rear wheel) so it doesn't have a differential, it has a final drive. 

 

 

[Dave_in_TX]

Mopar makes a synthetic 70W80 GL5 gear and axle oil that may suffice. It's not G3 but that appears to be a BMW identifier.

 

There is a thread about this on advrider.com. According to that, the BMW specified oil isn't available from BMW motorcycle dealers and the dealers are using the 75W90 that was used in the 1200s in the 1250s.

[Twisties]

On 10/21/2020 at 3:15 PM, dirtrider said:

Evening Twisties

 

The BMW G3 is not the API viscosity, it is part of the gear oil name, the BMW G3 gear oil is actually an API GL-5 gear oil. 

 

A Motorcycle is single track vehicle (only 1 rear wheel) so it doesn't have a differential, it has a final drive. 

 

 

 

Never the less, that is what the manual says, exact words.  

[dirtrider]

14 hours ago, Twisties said:

 

Never the less, that is what the manual says, exact words.  

 

Morning  Twisties

 

Yes, the manual says that & the gear oil bottle container shows "SAE 70W-80 / hypoid axle G3" in the gear-oil name.

 

But you wrote --- "specification" reads: "SAE 70W-80 / hypoid axle G3" ,  That is not the specification that is the BMW suggested gear oil by name. 

 

The specification actually is:  SAE 70W-80 /  GL-5

 

Not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to clarify this for future readers that the gear oil specification is an  SAE 70W-80  GL-5 not the G3 shown in the name. 

 

BMW is trying to be as confusing as possible per their usual.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave_in_TX]

On 10/25/2020 at 5:59 AM, dirtrider said:

Morning  Twisties

 

Yes, the manual says that & the gear oil bottle container shows "SAE 70W-80 / hypoid axle G3" in the gear-oil name.

 

But you wrote --- "specification" reads: "SAE 70W-80 / hypoid axle G3" ,  That is not the specification that is the BMW suggested gear oil by name. 

 

The specification actually is:  SAE 70W-80 /  GL-5

 

Not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to clarify this for future readers that the gear oil specification is an  SAE 70W-80  GL-5 not the G3 shown in the name. 

 

BMW is trying to be as confusing as possible per their usual.  

 

 

 

 

 

I just looked at the manual for my 2020 R1250GS. Unlike the oil information on page 223 which states to use SAE 5W40, API SL/JASO MA2., and recommends BMW ADVANTEC, page 225 explicitly  states to use SAE 70W-80 / hypoid axle G3 rather than stating to use 70W80 GL5 and recommending G3. I'm no lawyer but if G3 is indeed BMW only, then that would seem to violate the Moss Magnusson act.

[Groanup]

I tried to tell myself I'd be sorry, but damn if I didn't click on an oil thread anyway...

I hope y'all get it figured out...

[lkchris]

So little understanding of gear oils ...

 

GL-5 is a minimum specification and you can take to the bank not all gear oils so labeled are identical or interchangeable.

 

Oil producers are free to incorporate additives that make their product something different and better, and they do.

 

The BMW "controversy" started with the 2005 Boxers where a special formula was specified, that is the Castrol SAF-XO formula.  With extra processing and additives I suppose, this oil is specified as lifetime fill.

 

Yes, yes, all genius "mechanics" poo pool the idea of lifetime fill, but if they were petroleum engineers or mechanical engineers, they would have better jobs.

 

Yes, there were production problems with the early final drives and there were failures.  The failures were NOT attributable to the oil nor to the lifetime fill specification.

 

In any event, this became a public relations problem and BMW responded by specifying a change interval.  They did NOT change the oil specification.  For those bikes and up to some period I'm not certain of, SAF-XO equivalent oils are REQUIRED.  You can get some at a reasonable price at your BMW dealer and there are other sources.

 

The G3 oil is something new and I'd guess corresponds to more recent bikes and final drives.  BUT, you can again take to the bank it's NOT a generic product.  If you want to use another brand, learn whether that manufacturer states it's approved for your bike.  It it doesn't state that, it's probably not.

 

Just get over the notion gear oils are "generic."

 

While you're at it, get over the "evil corporation" conspiracy theories.  BMW and other German manufacturers build superior products and not for a nanosecond do they let themselves be constrained by whether Americans can find their favorite maintenance items cheap at Pep Boys or other FLAPS.  The gear oil for my Porsche's manual transmissions sells for $36.50 per liter.  They don't have that at Pep Boys either.  Change interval is 75,000 miles.

 

[dirtrider]

On 10/30/2020 at 6:54 PM, Dave_in_TX said:

I just looked at the manual for my 2020 R1250GS. Unlike the oil information on page 223 which states to use SAE 5W40, API SL/JASO MA2., and recommends BMW ADVANTEC, page 225 explicitly  states to use SAE 70W-80 / hypoid axle G3 rather than stating to use 70W80 GL5 and recommending G3. I'm no lawyer but if G3 is indeed BMW only, then that would seem to violate the Moss Magnusson act.

Morning Dave

 

Look on the actual bottle of  BMW G3 (note it doesn't say GL-3). It says GL-5.  Where is the G3 written?    Is it after the stated viscosity or just part of the oil name? 

 

 

[Dave_in_TX]

12 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Dave

 

Look on the bottle of  BMW G3 (note it doesn't say GL-3).

 

 

I was never suggesting it was GL3. I was pointing out that BMW said to use BMW G3 rather than giving a generic spec like for engine oil. I know the G3 is a GL 5.

[dirtrider]

40 minutes ago, Dave_in_TX said:

I was never suggesting it was GL3. I was continuing out that BMW said to use BMW G3 rather than giving a generic spec like for engine oil. I know the G3 is a GL 5.

Morning Dave

 

OK, I misunderstood your post intent. 

 

Back to your line of thought--  Are you referencing the riders manual that came with your motorcycle or an updated on-line version? (if there even is one). 

 

Sometimes BMW catches their legal miscues the offers updated info in a newer version riders manual.  

 

 

[Dave_in_TX]

7 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Dave

 

OK, I misunderstood your post intent. 

 

Back to your line of thought--  Are you referencing the riders manual that came with your motorcycle or an updated on-line version? (if there even is one). 

 

Sometimes BMW catches their legal miscues the offers updated info in a newer version riders manual.  

 

 

DR, I'm referencing the original manual that came with my 2020 R1250GS. I'm not aware of any updated version. 

 

Twisties Oct 24 post actually includes an image of the manual page.