### NHTSA Contact about Recalled Brakes ###

[Motor32]

Hey Guys,

Today I talked with an investigator with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and he is interested in talking with anyone else who has had the recalled brake calipers installed and the brakes still are leaking. His name is Santiago Maldonado and his number is 443-655-6524 or you can email him at santiago.maldonado@dot.gov in Washington DC. He is working on our behalf to get to the bottom of this issue of the leaking Hayes calipers that BMW hasn't solved. This has been going on since last October and BMW's fix is not working.

Steve

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

Wow....not sure this will work or not...When the 2014 Wetheads came out they had a shock issue.  There were only a few who had the issue, but BMW recalled them all. I was the #8 Wethead in the US and it took about 3 months of my bike being parked before they could fix it.  It took a while for them to mfg a new shock.

 

BMW offered a new loaner bike until the recall was fixed and a couple of other options.  I think I would walk into the dealer and tell them I want you to loan me a new.......1600, GS, GSA, or something until this problem is fixed......and really fixed.

 

I'm sure you know but that brake fluid will eat your paint.  If you have that much hitting the rims it most likely is being slung back on the bike somewhere.  Good luck...keep us posted.  There is another link on this site today you might want to visit.  It is a place to launch a complaint.

[Motor32]

1 hour ago, Skywagon said:

Wow....not sure this will work or not...When the 2014 Wetheads came out they had a shock issue.  There were only a few who had the issue, but BMW recalled them all. I was the #8 Wethead in the US and it took about 3 months of my bike being parked before they could fix it.  It took a while for them to mfg a new shock.

 

BMW offered a new loaner bike until the recall was fixed and a couple of other options.  I think I would walk into the dealer and tell them I want you to loan me a new.......1600, GS, GSA, or something until this problem is fixed......and really fixed.

 

I'm sure you know but that brake fluid will eat your paint.  If you have that much hitting the rims it most likely is being slung back on the bike somewhere.  Good luck...keep us posted.  There is another link on this site today you might want to visit.  It is a place to launch a complaint.

I have filed a second complaint to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and after talking with the lead investigator they are not happy with the so called fix that BMW told them would solve the issue. Stay tuned. Love the Warthog, a Marine's best friend.

 

Steve

 

[Bernie]

You guys do know that BMW did not design or make the brake calibers.

BMW buys them and install them on the bike.

If the manufacture does not know what he is doing, BMW is just as much the victim as you are.

Maybe Hayes needs to learn how to make brake calipers that don't leak.

 

[9Mary7]

Brembo for the WIN!!!

Seriously, love my BMW branded Brembos

[JamesW]

I won't comment.  Don't want to upset Bernie.

[ScottT]

On 9/24/2020 at 7:53 PM, 9Mary7 said:

Brembo for the WIN!!!

Seriously, love my BMW branded Brembos

Earlier this year Triumphs and Ducati's were recalled for problems with Brembo brakes. Problems that can cause "catastrophic failures". In 2018 there were two other recalls involving Brembo brakes. It's not a good idea to poke Karma. 

[9Mary7]

As you can see for my signature, all mine are older, seasoned, and working fabulously. All manufacturer's have issues, too bad BMW went with Hayes........ don't know what was wrong with their Brembo supply. Oh WAIT....maybe that low bid system bit them in the ass again!!

[TEWKS]

Certainly like seeing an American company get a share of the Moto Market but obviously, they (Hayes) weren’t ready for prime time.

[JamesW]

Wonder why the Japanese manufacturers seem to have such high quality in their motorcycles without major problems like repeated brake problems, final drive issues, trans input shaft spline failures, soft cam lobes and on and on.  Could it be that companies like Yamaha manufacturer their own subassemblies rather than rely on outside suppliers?  I may be wrong but I think BMW used to manufacturer much more of their own subassemblies especially back in the airhead days.

 

I mention Yamaha because I own one (FJR) and it's the first non-BMW bike I've owned in about 40 years and the Bike is really beginning to grow on me.  Well, not literally, lol.  Not going to part with my like new R1100RSL just yet though.

[wbw6cos]

@Motor32, on the other thread about 2021 RT changes you had commented on the fact that BMW is still using the cheap Hayes calipers.   It just dawned on me that your calipers are black colored.   The ones on mine are gold colored, including the rear Brembo.   I wonder if that makes a difference; I have not noticed any fluid leaking from the Hayes.   The bike was in for the 12k service and the dealer checked those calipers as part of the campaign. with nothing being found.  I have a little over 16.000 miles on the RT so far.

 

I will keep watching for your progress.

 

Good luck.

[92Merc]

3 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

@Motor32, on the other thread about 2021 RT changes you had commented on the fact that BMW is still using the cheap Hayes calipers.   It just dawned on me that your calipers are black colored.   The ones on mine are gold colored, including the rear Brembo.   I wonder if that makes a difference; I have not noticed any fluid leaking from the Hayes.   The bike was in for the 12k service and the dealer checked those calipers as part of the campaign. with nothing being found.  I have a little over 16.000 miles on the RT so far.

 

I will keep watching for your progress.

 

Good luck.

 

I noticed a couple of pictures of the Arctic White for 2021, not option 719 Mineral White, had front calipers painted black.  I also noticed the wording on some calipers looked larger than just "BMW".  But I couldn't find a good picture to zoom in and see what's up.

[fourteenfour]

Well took mine in for one year service and got told it needs new brakes. Oh joy.

 

OF COURSE THEY DON'T HAVE THEM IN STOCK APPARENTLY BECAUSE BMW DOESN'T SHIP UNTIL A UNIT IS IDENTIFIED.

 

Seriously what idiot at BMW NA thinks this is how it should work. Waste a customers time because you failed, again.

[wbw6cos]

Need new brakes?  As in brake pads?  Or calipers?  

[alexp]

I was told that this brake issue with NHTSA is the main reason for the delay on releasing the 2021 RTs to US and Canada.  I just hope it gets resolved soon. 

[Indy Dave]

On 10/31/2020 at 3:31 PM, fourteenfour said:

Well took mine in for one year service and got told it needs new brakes. Oh joy.

 

OF COURSE THEY DON'T HAVE THEM IN STOCK APPARENTLY BECAUSE BMW DOESN'T SHIP UNTIL A UNIT IS IDENTIFIED.

 

Seriously what idiot at BMW NA thinks this is how it should work. Waste a customers time because you failed, again.

 

Well... there's nothing stopping a dealer from stocking the parts.

[alexp]

I think the issue is more serious than we think it is.  There are cases of people having new calipers installed and they leaked again.  I heard Brembo does not want to let BMW put their logos on it.  This is where the problem starts.  Next is price too... Will see. I just hope it happens fast. 

[ScottT]

My local dealer told me the same exact thing. That BMW went to Hayes brakes because Brembo won't let BMW emblazon "BMW" on the outside of the caliper. If you look at the inside of the Hayes calipers, it says "Hayes" instead of BMW. BMW is on the outside of course. Seems like a really ridiculous reason to switch to a completely different caliper vendor. Especially one that does not have the track record in motorcycle calipers that Brembo has. Hayes apparently is one of the best when it comes to bicycle brakes. 

[alexp]

I head some good news today.  BMW is going back to BREMBO for sure.  Eventually they will have all the brakes replaced with Brembos.  WE should probably start looking for March to have Rts available for US and Canada. 

[Skywagon]

Calling Motor 32....Code 1....any updates?

[realshelby]

Talked with a windshield customer this week. He actually bought a used RT from a dealer that called knowing this was exactly the bike he wanted. Sent the money for it....and now it is in "stop sale". He is ok with that for now...Dealer did tell him ( Tuesday I think the call was ) that he had just gotten out of a dealer meeting ( virtual of course ) and they did say Brembo calipers are the answer for the fix. They are coming....but he didn't have an exact time line for delivery of the parts. 

 

I would LOVE to know the thought process on switching to Hayes from Brembo. 

[9Mary7]

On 11/29/2020 at 7:24 PM, alexp said:

I heard Brembo does not want to let BMW put their logos on it.  This is where the problem starts.  Next is price too... Will see. I just hope it happens fast. 

This doesn't make sense to me...My hexhead calipers say BREMBO on the inside and BMW on the outside, so that wouldn't be an issue. BMW has used Brembo calipers for (practically) ever. From my experience with BMW  I'm sure it was a cost deal.

[Hosstage]

All decisions are economic.

All decisions.

[Bernie]

I am sure the guy that made that decision is looking for a job. 

[fourteenfour]

can they sell used bikes with this issue? 

 

 

[alexp]

yes, just make sure you update the new owner's info so BMW can get it back when the solution has been made.  I do believe they plan in exchange all Hayes brake calipers with the new approved brand. 

[TEWKS]

Brembo to the rescue it looks like.  Appears the bikes on hold at dealerships will be fitted with Brembos and I assume, the bikes leaving Germany will already have them. How far back and what models will be issued the new squeezers is unknown by me, anyway. 
 

edit...Rereading some of the posts above tells me It’s not braking  news.

[ScottT]

On 2/7/2021 at 5:53 AM, TEWKS said:

Brembo to the rescue it looks like.  Appears the bikes on hold at dealerships will be fitted with Brembos and I assume, the bikes leaving Germany will already have them. How far back and what models will be issued the new squeezers is unknown by me, anyway. 
 

edit...Rereading some of the posts above tells me It’s not braking  news.

Every bike that has been delivered to customers, will eventually have them replaced with Brembos. I've also heard that BMW may also use calipers from Nissin which are the calipers on the M1000RR. This Nissin thing is strictly hearsay as this point. 

 

I've had my 1250RT for over two years and it has about 14k miles on the clock. There's been no sign of leaking but eventually, the Hayes will be gone. It's a shame really. They are fantastic calipers. Unless you have one that leaks.

[JSCOTT]

New member here...  After renting a K1600GT and R1250RT for a few days each, I purchased (well almost did) a 1250RT in Nov-20.  However, the day before taking delivery a stop sell order went in to effect due to the caliper issue.  Received a message from the dealer yesterday (Hermy's BMW) saying the Brembo calipers were installed and the bike should be delivered to me in the next week (waiting for the computer systems to be updated reflecting the recall was satisfied and the warranty transferred to me).  The dealer has done a great job staying in contact the whole time, kudos to Jack at Hermy's.  Looking forward to enjoying the bike as soon as the snow melts.    

[9Mary7]

Those are some sweet lookin calipers!!!!

[fourteenfour]

well I guess I will venture by my dealer and ask them to schedule a replacement of my brakes - before I sell it

[fourteenfour]

Well there is no date still. They hope to have something solid by end of the month.

 

At this point I am done with the brand. This is just ridiculous that I have a bike I cannot trade to any other dealer and my options where I bought it are close to 60% of what I paid

[dirtrider]

11 minutes ago, fourteenfour said:

Well there is no date still. They hope to have something solid by end of the month.

 

At this point I am done with the brand. This is just ridiculous that I have a bike I cannot trade to any other dealer and my options where I bought it are close to 60% of what I paid

Afternoon  fourteenfour

 

Check to see if you state has a lemon law that includes motorcycles, if so they are usually forced to buy it back at selling price minus the usage miles. 

[fourteenfour]

well I cannot go the Lemon Law route because its not in the shop nor has gone to the shop since they won't accept it until there are replacement calipers.

 

Since the recall has been in effect since August 2020 I cannot trade my bike in except at most my BMW dealer where I bought it but the only offer they gave me was stupid low.   So I wrote to BMW the other day that I really am disappointed with their response and lack of communication and since they could not remedy the situation they should have offered to buy the bikes back because they are impossible to trade which in effect makes them worthless.

 

So I will wait and see if they get my bike its calipers or not. If I don't have them by end of month I am leaving the brand permanently and sadly I won't be able to offload the bike until I get the calipers.

[fourteenfour]

Well BMW NA contacted me after I submitted my complain via their contact email.

 

There is no date they can give me that I will have new calipers available for my bike.  They can offer no remedy whatsoever. 

 

So I opened an NHTSA complaint citing the current recall and BMW having over six months with no resolution highlighting the fact no dealer other than my BMW dealer would take the bike on trade and I did not consider their offer even remotely fair.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, fourteenfour said:

Well BMW NA contacted me after I submitted my complain via their contact email.

 

There is no date they can give me that I will have new calipers available for my bike.  They can offer no remedy whatsoever. 

 

So I opened an NHTSA complaint citing the current recall and BMW having over six months with no resolution highlighting the fact no dealer other than my BMW dealer would take the bike on trade and I did not consider their offer even remotely fair.

Afternoon fourteenfour

 

You might also contact your state's attorney general, in my state that has been very helpful to get the attorney general involved. Your situation might still fall under the lemon law.  

[fourteenfour]

Lemon Law in Georgia excludes motorcycles

[Hosstage]

2 hours ago, fourteenfour said:

Lemon Law in Georgia excludes motorcycles

It might still be worth it to contact the attorney general's office.

[fourteenfour]

Received a new NHTSA letter Saturday which claims a Remedy is Available. So I will call my dealer Tuesday and see if their story changed and if not back to BMW NA

[ScottT]

On 3/14/2021 at 4:25 PM, fourteenfour said:

Received a new NHTSA letter Saturday which claims a Remedy is Available. So I will call my dealer Tuesday and see if their story changed and if not back to BMW NA

My dealer here in North Texas is already replacing calipers on customer bike as per the recall. In fact, they started replacements before owners got the latest recall letter stating that a remedy was available. 

 

Regarding your earlier posts  about selling the bike and lemon laws. What's the back story? Did the brakes on your bike ever leak preventing you from riding? From your earlier posts it looks like the dealer just told you that you needed the new calipers and you seemed quite bitter afterwards and want to sell the bike. I don't get it.

 

As for me, I am in no rush at all to get the Hayes on mine replaced. They have never leaked and they are hands down, the best front brakes I have ever had on a motorcycle. 

[fourteenfour]

I just have zero desire to ride a bike by a manufacturer which lets an issue go over half a year and only communicates with the customers once. I have a problem with a brand that when you get them on the phone they can offer no solution other than to wait. They took value from me in that when I did discuss trading for another bike the dealer of the competing brand did not want the headache of selling a bike with a recall on it, especially one about the brakes. It is legal for them to to sell it but why add to the complication of selling a brand you don't normally deal with. They weren't even sure if it would go to auction successfully with the recall; which is where many bikes that are not their brand end up.

 

It is a trust issue. Thank goodness the law stopped them from selling new ones.

[AndyS]

On 3/19/2021 at 7:48 PM, ScottT said:

As for me, I am in no rush at all to get the Hayes on mine replaced. They have never leaked and they are hands down, the best front brakes I have ever had on a motorcycle. 

 

I suspect that has NOTHING to do with the calliper and more to do with the pads.

[Wayne Johnson]

I have a member in my club who has had the calipers replaced with the Brembos and says the Hayes were much better. I have had no leaking so far so i too am in no rush to replace them.

[TPadden]

3 hours ago, Wayne Johnson said:

I have had no leaking so far so i too am in no rush to replace them.

I agree and put the recall letter in a file to be used when needed, if ever.  If it ain't broke why fix it?  I also like the current brake.

 

Tom

2004 R1150RS

2016 R1200RS

2018 K1600B

2020 R1250RT

[Paddler]

I almost didn't buy my R1250RS because it has the Brembo brakes.  From my reading the Hayes were much better.  I thought I read somewhere that the reason the Hayes leaked was because they shipped them coated in brake fluid instead of grease.  The brake fluid, when exposed to air, was pitting the seals?  Here is that post:

 

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?96832-2019-R1250-GS-Hayes-Brake-Caliper-Failure&p=1190838&viewfull=1#post1190838

 

The Hayes are supposed to be more rigid, less prone to failure and provide better feel.  In one video I saw prior to ordering mine a guy was chasing other bikes in the mountains and remarked that after doing so his Brembos faded a bit.  So, I thought that going with Hayes was an upgrade.  Really a shame to see this problem.  Meanwhile, I don't ride nearly hard enough to fade my Brembos.  

[Dave_in_TX]

I much prefer the Brembos to the Hayes that were previously on my 2020 GS. The Brembos are easier to modulate and provide plenty of stopping power. The Hayes made the brake lever a bit like an on/off switch.

 

There were reports of Hayes calipers that did not start to leak until they had several thousand miles on them.

[alexp]

So I did some research today about the brake situation.  All the S1000 are now being retrofit with NISIN brakes and the rest of the models are going to be replaced with Brembos. The NISIN has the BMW logos on them. 

[Ron-M]

Brought my 2020 1250RT in for its 12,000 mile service and knowing there was a caliper recall, the Orlando BMW Service Manager ordered the calipers in advance of my appointment and the calipers were in the store within a few days.  The front calipers were changed out under the recall.  I pointed out to the Service Manager that I have had to top off the coolant numerous times and they confirmed the water pump was seeping fluid.  Had to leave the bike so they could order a new water pump.  That did not bother me, but the cost of the service bothered me more.  It seemed a little excessive at $580.  $109 in parts, not including oil and filter because I told them that I would change that, and then over $400 in labor cost.  Sheesh.  

[wbw6cos]

We receive the recall letter last week.   When the bike was in for the 18k service a few months ago, they put me lower on the priority list due to no leaks and their 2nd time inspecting the calipers.  They told me when the next service is due they will take care of the recall, which in about 2,000 miles.  Still no leaks. 

[fourteenfour]

Was visiting my dealer today and asked when the next Saturday that would be open to come in and have the work done and instead they did them right then, (wooly's cycles).  Their service department is always amazing