2015 R1200RT Hard Cold Starts

[profbodryak]

Hi all,

 

It all started after my 12000 mile service around 13000 miles. It happens on a cold engine to a point where you can keep cranking it and it won't start on the first try. As soon as you let off the starter button and do it again (even immediately) it starts right up. It doesn't do it every cold start, just sometimes but is totally unpredictable. I've seen many threads on this but not a definitive answer of what helps with this issue. I am taking the bike to the dealer next Tuesday afternoon but all they have said is that they have been seeing this more in RT's and is that they can see if there are computer updates they can do. The link below has one possible solution but no follow up if the issue persisted (with a quote of what the dealer did).

 

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?81093-14-R1200RT-Cold-First-Starting-Problems "BMWofSF reports that after they checked fault codes (none present), reset mixture preparation adaptation values, it started without hesitation. i found it interesting that they performed the work first and then attempted to start it. at the end of the day, the bike seems to start as expected."

 

I also read this thread in its almost entirety and didn't see a definitive answer there either.

 

https://advrider.com/f/threads/gs-lc-cold-start-requires-two-attempts.1144738/page-7

 

Has anyone been able to figure this out? Is it a position of the flapper valve limiting the exhaust valve side? Does it need a mixture setting reset? Is it a gremlin? It's worth saying that both of my '14 LC RT's did not have this issue with same or more miles on the clock. It's also worth mentioning that sometimes it will crank for a few seconds and start but RPM's will be twice as high initially.

[profbodryak]

And I just came across this post somewhere as well about recalibrating. 

 

1.Turn on key with the kill switch set to run. Don't start the engine.
slowly open the twist grip to full throttle and slowly return to idle.

2. repeat this step three times.

3. Turn off key and wait one minute for everything to shut down.

4. Start the engine normally.

[realshelby]

The only cold start issues I have heard about seem to be related to cam position. This can slip/or is simple out when manufactured. Not sure why yours started after the service, most dealers don't even check this. Couple members here have had a lot of success helping others to dial in the cams to the proper timing. This has nothing to do with valve clearance, but has everything to do with when the valves open and close. 

[Paul De]

This is sort of a known Waterhead idiosyncrasy and my 2015 does this too sometimes.  It seems a lot of folks claim to have solved it with making sure the cam timing is spot on.  I haven't looked at the cam gear position/timing yet and maybe never will because it is such a minor issue.  I just know that if it doesn't immediately fire up. I abort the start and it will immediately fire on the second blip.

[LAF]

I have seen at least 4 or 5 bikes respond to the cam position sensor being set at the proper position.  Problem is you need the cam timing tools to set it!

 

A guy in our BMW club BMW DCR 16 GS had complained countless times, and I witnessed it many times as we rode many thousand miles together.  That and SAP.

 

Well I set his cam timing it was off by a bit but his cam position sensor was well below the slot you need to line up with.  It needs to be set proper on that slot.  When we were done with his 12K we buttoned it up and it fired first push of the button.  At a JVB tech gathering I set another GS that was the same way and it responded the same way.  Not saying it is a cure all but it does matter.

 

Again if someone wants it done in a reasonable riding distance I would do it for them provided I dont loose any money on overnight expenses.

 

I mentioned the SAP on the friends 16.  It was terrible.  The shop had it twice and I think they tried to do it on the center stand instead of live.  By that I mean we took his bike out, pulled over in the country I reset SAP with the GS911 and then had him row the gears holding in each for the 10 seconds I think, he held six, pulled over and killed the motor.  We let it set until well after canbus shut down a few mins, and then fired it up and took a ride.  It worked flawlessly.  I did the same to my 15 RT and it improved it so much I was stunned.

 

Just saying...................

[Mike the Ghoul]

My symptoms were the bike would begin to start then stall.  while in neutral. Not really start just a kind of bump.  Not every time but about once every 10 starts.  If I just pushed the starter button it would fire right up, but in about 1 mile start bucking and hesitating.  Shut it off and start over and it was fine.  If when it first stalled I turned the key off and then started again, it was fine.

 

I checked the cam alignment and it was just slightly off.  Reset it and I haven't had the problem in two years. Tools are expensive but I am sharing them with another rider.

 

ymmv

[profbodryak]

Update:

 

Visited the dealer. Cam alignment was done during a 12,000 mile service interval. There was an update available that was applied at the time. They also told me that somehow the front level sensor was disconnected (they discovered it while calibrating sensors after an update). Unknown why it was ever unplugged and who did it. Ever since I left the dealer, the hard start problem only occurred once.

[Veefore]

On 9/17/2020 at 5:45 PM, profbodryak said:

And I just came across this post somewhere as well about recalibrating. 

 

1.Turn on key with the kill switch set to run. Don't start the engine.
slowly open the twist grip to full throttle and slowly return to idle.

2. repeat this step three times.

3. Turn off key and wait one minute for everything to shut down.

4. Start the engine normally.

Probably a placebo but I had my 12 K done in September and the bike came back doing just what everyone is describing. No start on the first try with the button, popped right off the second. I tried what you described above and it fired immediately… I have no idea if this will last or it’s a regular thing but what you described worked.  I have heard others vehemently argue against it but I dunno.

[lkraus]

A statement like this is in all the RT manuals I've seen since the Hexhead:

For cold starts and at low ambient temperatures: pull the lever to disengage the clutch and twist the throttle grip slightly.

 

My Hexhead apparently considers anything under ~50º F to be a  "low ambient temperature", and it will not start until I bring the throttle off the idle stop. With the throttle, it starts immediately.  At higher ambient temperatures, it starts fine without the throttle, even though I think the first start of the day is what BMW means by a "cold" start, regardless of ambient temp.

 

We see increases in "hard starting" posts every fall, but seldom see a mention that any throttle has been used.

 

 

 

[LAF]

My 17.5 GS DOES not say this anywhere so what year RT do you have?

 

Yet when I look up a 2017 RT it does say exactly what you quoted.

 

And a 1250 RT says the same, cold start crack throttle.

 

I look up a 1250 GS and is says nothing about cracking the throttle on cold start.

 

Odd as I thought they were the same motor?

 

 

[lkraus]

When I check a few other manuals, the throttle twist is not mentioned in recent R, RS, GS and GSA manuals.  I don't know why it would be necessary on a computerized fuel-injected bike, but it's essential knowledge for my 2006 RT.  I suppose the question becomes which manual needs to be corrected, the RT or all the rest?

[AndyS]

Hi Ikraus,It seems you are comparing apples with oranges. You are talking about a Hex/Camhead, and the O/P is talking about a Wethead. 

The Wetheads are fly by wire throttles. The earlier bikes aren't.

[lkraus]

12 minutes ago, AndyS said:

Hi Ikraus,It seems you are comparing apples with oranges. You are talking about a Hex/Camhead, and the O/P is talking about a Wethead. 

The Wetheads are fly by wire throttles. The earlier bikes aren't.

But the Wethead RT owners manual still says cold starts require a throttle twist.

[92Merc]

3 hours ago, lkraus said:

But the Wethead RT owners manual still says cold starts require a throttle twist.

On page 93 of the version of the manual I have under Starting:

 

You cannot start the motorcycle
with the side stand extended and
a gear engaged. The engine will
switch itself off if it is started with
the transmission in neutral and
then a gear is engaged before
retracting the side stand.

For cold starts and at low
ambient temperatures: pull the
lever to disengage the clutch
and twist the throttle grip
slightly.

[Bill_Walker]

8 hours ago, 92Merc said:

For cold starts and at low
ambient temperatures: pull the
lever to disengage the clutch
and twist the throttle grip
slightly.

Thanks, I learned something!  That's in the manual for my 2015, as well!  I don't recall having noticed it before, and I'm a guy who reads manuals!

[longjohn]

1 hour ago, Bill_Walker said:

Thanks, I learned something!  That's in the manual for my 2015, as well!  I don't recall having noticed it before, and I'm a guy who reads manuals!

We’ll be able to try that next weekend in Beatty:  fri am 37° and sat 35°. Oy. 

[Rockosmith]

The manual for my ‘15 RT says the same.  In over 100K miles opening the throttle has never been necessary to achieve a cold start.  Now that I know to do it, I will try it.

[Knobby10]

I don't want to start a fuel conversation or debate but both my KTM and RT did this until I switched to top tier fuel. They both run smoother and start better, cold or hot, when using these fuels. JMHO. 

[LAF]

Yes we all get the top tier thing. 

 

What is surprising is this is against EVERYTHING I was told when going from carburetors to FI way back when.

 

What is even more surprising is it is in the RT but not in the GS starting instructions.

 

I live in PA and I have NEVER cracked the throttle on start.  And I have been out in very cold temps.

 

It is just one of those charming BMW characteristics.

[wbw6cos]

I was just on the toilet reading my owner's manual ('19 1250 RT) and it also states the same thing about cold weather starting procedure (pull in clutch lever, crack throttle while cranking.)  

 

On my Oilhead (2000 R1200C) it has similar wording:  pull in clutch, press starter button (really?) and the engine should start.    Turn the throttle twistgrip carefully as necessary.

 

Interesting that I am just now learning this info.

 

And yeah, I was not expecting that on a modern FI bike(s).

[Dave_in_TX]

This problem would come and go on my 2014GS.

[Cap]

I have had issues starting the bike in cold temps on my 2017 RT.  As far as I can tell, the problem is not the Fuel Injection system, rather it is related to oil viscosity, and friction in the wet clutch.  When the bike is cold-soaked, for example when parked in a motel parking lot overnight with ambient temps in the 20’s, the bike will start normally, but die almost immediately.  I need to hold throttle to keep it running for about 30 seconds until the oil warms up a bit. I always hold the clutch when starting, and then release it when a steady idle is achieved, which is typically a few seconds when the temps are above freezing.  But if I release the clutch after starting in cold temps, the bike dies.  A minute later, everything is normal.

 

So, this is a different issue than reported by the OP, and unrelated to throttle calibration.

 

Cap

[92Merc]

I've never had the situation CAP mentions.  I've had two different weird start situations.

1) It'll crank for 15 seconds and no start.  I just wait 15 seconds, try it again, and it'll instantly fire up.  This only happens on cold starts.

2) Both my '15 and the wife's '17 have done this.  The bike fires a couple times, then comes to a halt.  It has a bit of a bang when the engine stops.  My guess is the bike didn't quite fire up.  The noise I'm hearing is probably a combination of the decompression re-engaging, and the starter popping back in when the engine stops.  I'm always able to fire it right up immediately.  This only happens on cold starts.

 

Both of these situations seem to get much better after the cam chain adjustment.  I can go maybe 5k miles before I run into that again.  And it's not that the chain is off much according to the tech.  My valves have always stayed spot on.

 

But I've never had to give it gas to keep it running cold.  It just goes to high idle and runs, once started.

[profbodryak]

Interesting how some experience this and some don't. Ever since the update to the software it did it only once. Tomorrow is supposed to be 32 in the morning so we shall see. But it's been fine all along (fingers crossed and didn't have to blip the throttle on the cold start).

[profbodryak]

No issue starting in the cold first thing in the morning. My previous two (both 2014) did not have that issue.

[Sail]

I have an 2015 1200RTP that started doing this. After much research I read somewhere that it was due to a fuel system issue. A tankful of Chevron Techron resolved my starting twice / hard cold start issues. People attribute it to PEA (detergent), Polyether Amines. Who knows. Problem solved!

[Yuro]

On 10/31/2020 at 5:15 PM, wbw6cos said:

I was just on the toilet reading my owner's manual ('19 1250 RT) and it also states the same thing about cold weather starting procedure (pull in clutch lever, crack throttle while cranking.)  

 

On my Oilhead (2000 R1200C) it has similar wording:  pull in clutch, press starter button (really?) and the engine should start.    Turn the throttle twistgrip carefully as necessary.

 

Interesting that I am just now learning this info.

 

And yeah, I was not expecting that on a modern FI bike(s).

Wbw6cos:  

 

Hope everything came out all right!