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Ironman1150

1999 R1150GS Suspect HES Failure - how to fix

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Ironman1150

Hello to everyone.

Backstory - arrived back home after 300km ride that was one of the better things thats happened to me of late.

Started bike to put away in the shed and after a few seconds noticed the engine spluttered and died. Unusual. Its never done that before.

Cranked and it farted. Noticed the fuel pump would cycle on and off a few times and the tach needle jumped erratically.

No start.

Fuel pulp primes but nothing after that.

no spark - coil checks ok

dry spark plugs after multi attempts to start - indicates no injection pulse

 

Im pretty certain its the HES.

My Question is can I replace it with a new unit, fit and time and get back on the road without taking it to the dealership as its a trailer job.

I dont have a GS911 or anything like that.

 

I have seen you can build an LED indicator for setting the HES but it look like only on the earlier versions.

My HES has the square connector with the really fine pins in it.

 

Any advise is appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

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dirtrider
7 hours ago, Ironman1150 said:

Hello to everyone.

Backstory - arrived back home after 300km ride that was one of the better things thats happened to me of late.

Started bike to put away in the shed and after a few seconds noticed the engine spluttered and died. Unusual. Its never done that before.

Cranked and it farted. Noticed the fuel pump would cycle on and off a few times and the tach needle jumped erratically.

No start.

Fuel pulp primes but nothing after that.

no spark - coil checks ok

dry spark plugs after multi attempts to start - indicates no injection pulse

 

Im pretty certain its the HES.

My Question is can I replace it with a new unit, fit and time and get back on the road without taking it to the dealership as its a trailer job.

I dont have a GS911 or anything like that.

 

I have seen you can build an LED indicator for setting the HES but it look like only on the earlier versions.

My HES has the square connector with the really fine pins in it.

 

Any advise is appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

Morning   Ironman1150

 

Yes, no, depends. 

 

You can scribe-mark your original HES to the front cover (in a couple of places),  then remove it &  have it re-wired, then re-install it, line the marks back exactly then be good to go. (how most do it)---

 

You can contact GS Addict at  (     arbcon@sunshinecoast.ca   ) as he does a great job testing then  re-wiring the BMW HES (usually better than new).

 

The HES sensor itself doesn't fail, it's usually the wiring going to the HES that  degrades then fails. 

 

Or, you can scribe mark the ends of your existing HES, then reinstall a NEW HES, that will be pretty close but probably not exactly correct (depends on how close the new HES is built to your original 30 year old HES). Kind of a crap shoot on it being exactly the same & precisely correct but usually somewhat close.  

 

Or, you can re-time (or just check) your new HES to the max advance mark using a timing light but that is a pain if you need to re-adjust it a couple of times to get it correct, but will work with effort. 

 

 

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Still CAL

+1 on gsaddict, he's rewired two for me. Both had hidden damage to the wiring harness.

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Dave P

Iron- I made one of those timing adjuster things when I had the Addict rebuild my R1100 HES last summer. I'll send it to you to borrow if you pay the shipping both ways. Im in NY upstate. Its a pretty simple device, about the size of a fat deck of cards. Dave

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Lowndes
On 9/13/2020 at 12:13 PM, Still CAL said:

+1 on gsaddict, he's rewired two for me. Both had hidden damage to the wiring harness.

Same for me, two HES units rewired by GSAddict, BETTER than new.  

 

Be sure to follow his shipping instructions "TO THE LETTER".  Otherwise Canadian customs will charge you way too much to get it back.

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Ironman1150

Thank you all for the replies.

I ended up replacing the HES with a pattern part from Munich motorcycles in Perth. It's running ok now but id lke to check that it's aligned perfectly.

I could go to the BMW  dealer an hours ride away +$ or is there a way I can do it myself? Clymer manual does not mention the process for a 99 r1150GS with the square connector, only the wide flat version with a test box.

I think I'll send my old HES away to be fixed as a spare.

 

20201023_161302.jpg

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dirtrider
5 minutes ago, Ironman1150 said:

Thank you all for the replies.

I ended up replacing the HES with a pattern part from Munich motorcycles in Perth. It's running ok now but id lke to check that it's aligned perfectly.

I could go to the BMW  dealer an hours ride away +$ or is there a way I can do it myself? Clymer manual does not mention the process for a 99 r1150GS with the square connector, only the wide flat version with a test box.

I think I'll send my old HES away to be fixed as a spare.

 

 

Evening  Ironman1150

 

Th ignition timing on the 1150 (MA 2.4) is dynamic so it jumps all over when trying to check it. Best way is to use a timing light & check it at the max advance mark on the flywheel when it reaches max advance while revving engine. 

 

Easy enough the CHECK, but kind a PITA if it needs adjusting. 

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Ironman1150
Just now, dirtrider said:

Evening  Ironman1150

 

Th ignition timing on the 1150 (MA 2.4) is dynamic so it jumps all over when trying to check it. Best way is to use a timing light & check it at the advance mark on the flywheel when it reaches max advance while revving engine. 

Cool. Ummm how do I do that?

 

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Ironman1150

Just reading old posts re timing light method.

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dirtrider
2 minutes ago, Ironman1150 said:

Cool. Ummm how do I do that?

 

Evening Ironman1150

 

First. remove the rubber timing hole plug on the R/H side of the engine, then spin the engine until you can find the  "Z"  (that is full advance). Then clean the "Z" mark so you can see it with a timing light. 

 

Next, put your timing light on either spark plug, then point the timing light into that timing hole, next revv the engine until the spark quits advancing, you want to see the "Z" mark centered in the timing hole. 

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Ironman1150

That easy huh? I assume it's a pita because you have to stop the engine, adjust, then retest, and repeat over and over until it's right.

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Ironman1150

Ok looked for the z mark. Only found this. Ok best DIY way to set the HES?

20201030_135714.jpg

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Ironman1150

I've used the fuel pump prime method and currently the pump will start when the bottom "-" mark in the picture is centre on the inspection hole when the crank is rotated CW when viewed facing toward the front of the bike. Is this right?

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Jim Moore

Brother, you're kinda overthinking this one. Put it in the same spot as the old one. Does the bike run OK? Great, you're done.

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dirtrider
13 hours ago, Ironman1150 said:

Ok looked for the z mark. Only found this. Ok best DIY way to set the HES?

 

Afternoon Ironman1150

 

The (OT) is top dead center, the (S) is about 5° btdc  that the Motronic adds just after engine starting.

 

Start with the (OT) in the timing hole, then rotate the engine towards the (S) then keep rotating in that direction  until the next little pad on the flywheel shows up in the window (it's quite  a ways (about 8 or 9 flywheel teeth) to next pad)  the (Z) should be on that pad if the pad is there.  (not all 1150 engines have that pad or Z mark)

 

I have heard of a number of 1150's that didn't have the Z mark or even the bent up pad, sounds like your bike might be one of those. 

 

If no Z mark then you will need to use an advance type timing light on the 2 stroke single  cylinder setting & time off of the OT mark. (BMW 1150  uses a lost spark system so you get a spark at every piston up same as a 2 stroke)

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dirtrider
13 hours ago, Ironman1150 said:

I've used the fuel pump prime method and currently the pump will start when the bottom "-" mark in the picture is centre on the inspection hole when the crank is rotated CW when viewed facing toward the front of the bike. Is this right?

Afternoon Ironman1150

 

This method has been used by a number of 1150 Ma 2.4 owners (Caution: different on the  Ma 2.2 1100 bikes).

 

The 1150 Motronic  triggers the fuel pump as the timing window closes. At 0° and 180° so in theory it should work & be somewhat close anyhow. 

 

I have always wanted to to do a verification check against my timing light but just haven't gotten around to doing that. 

 

It's probably closer than just bolting a new HES on using the old (removed) original HES scribe marks but you are using the fuel pump trigger point to set ignition timing against the dynamic trigger of a running engine. 

 

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Ironman1150
5 hours ago, Jim Moore said:

Brother, you're kinda overthinking this one. Put it in the same spot as the old one. Does the bike run OK? Great, you're done.

Well, I thought it did. Subsequently it has become a bit snatchy, and surges again.

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Ironman1150
3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Ironman1150

 

This method has been used by a number of 1150 Ma 2.4 owners (Caution: different on the  Ma 2.2 1100 bikes).

 

The 1150 Motronic  triggers the fuel pump as the timing window closes. At 0° and 180° so in theory it should work & be somewhat close anyhow. 

 

I have always wanted to to do a verification check against my timing light but just haven't gotten around to doing that. 

 

It's probably closer than just bolting a new HES on using the old (removed) original HES scribe marks but you are using the fuel pump trigger point to set ignition timing against the dynamic trigger of a running engine. 

 

I read on the Bosch site, installation instructions say set the HES so that the test LED illuminates  when at TDC. 

I figured that if the led lights at 0° and the pump prime at both 0 and 180°, this should be right.

Here's the thing, my new HES to achieve this is rotated all the way CCW. the original HES was mid way through the adjustment range.

It's satisfying to fix my bikes, but it can be a real PITA. Both therapeutic and irritating.

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dirtrider
1 hour ago, Ironman1150 said:

I read on the Bosch site, installation instructions say set the HES so that the test LED illuminates  when at TDC. 

I figured that if the led lights at 0° and the pump prime at both 0 and 180°, this should be right.

Here's the thing, my new HES to achieve this is rotated all the way CCW. the original HES was mid way through the adjustment range.

It's satisfying to fix my bikes, but it can be a real PITA. Both therapeutic and irritating.

Evening Ironman1150

 

"Here's the thing, my new HES to achieve this is rotated all the way CCW"

 

That doesn't sound correct, but possibly might be,  but it sure  puts up a red flag for me. 

 

You might find another way to verify that your setting is correct. 

 

See when you HES lines up when turning the crankshaft the other direction (I have penciled in my notes-- turn the crankshaft clockwise on the 1150)  

 

You might disconnect the fuel pump, or unplug both fuel injectors, then put your timing light on it & see what the spark timing is while cranking. This should show you what the spark timing is prior to adding the running 5°btdc.

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Ironman1150
3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening Ironman1150

 

"Here's the thing, my new HES to achieve this is rotated all the way CCW"

 

That doesn't sound correct, but possibly might be,  but it sure  puts up a red flag for me. 

 

You might find another way to verify that your setting is correct. 

 

See when you HES lines up when turning the crankshaft the other direction (I have penciled in my notes-- turn the crankshaft clockwise on the 1150)  

 

You might disconnect the fuel pump, or unplug both fuel injectors, then put your timing light on it & see what the spark timing is while cranking. This should show you what the spark timing is prior to adding the running 5°btdc.

It fires on TDC with injectors off.

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Ironman1150

Could be manufacturing tolerance 

20201031_120121.jpg

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Ironman1150

I located TDC using a probe through the spark plug hole and marked on the inspection hole as per the picture where the ring gear tooth is. Perspective is difficult with the phone camera but it's aligned. To me it's all as it should be bar the HES plate is all the way over. I've balanced the TB's within 2mmHg. Starts and idles perfectly. 2000rpm held steady using my throttle lock is also balanced. it's a head scratcher. Maybe just tolerance stack up?

Test ride tomorrow. Its hailing here at present.

20201031_120754.jpg

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Ironman1150

In the last picture, that is where it's firing the spark plug on cranking with no injectors connected.

When it's running, I can just see the top of the pad with the OT & S markings with the timing light at the lowest part on the inspection hole but I have to peer downwards a bit through the hole.

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dirtrider
9 hours ago, Ironman1150 said:

In the last picture, that is where it's firing the spark plug on cranking with no injectors connected.

When it's running, I can just see the top of the pad with the OT & S markings with the timing light at the lowest part on the inspection hole but I have to peer downwards a bit through the hole.

Morning  Ironman1150

 

To check the base advance with it running you need to get the idle real LOW, low as possible (probably under 900 RPM's). I don't know how reliable that is but with the idle real low it should be somewhere around the S mark.

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