R1150R Clutch Woes

[MTRockster]

I recently acquired a project bike, at least that's what it feels like, and I began to have some clutch engagement issues to the point there was no clutch.  I have gone as far replacing both the slave and master cylinder, reading about all the other things that can go wrong.  After bleeding the circuit with a mityvac to an acceptable level, I seem to have the same issue.  There's a little clutch there, but not full disengagement when you squeeze.  I didn't pay much attention to the sound it made before, but there's definitely a clunky sound you can hear from the push rod when you squeeze the clutch.  Sometimes you don't hear the sound, but either way, no clutch.  Any ideas before I split the bike in half to look on the inside?  There wasn't any signs before that there was an issue, smooth shifts and whatnot.

 

2004 R1150R Rockster 38k 

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, MTRockster said:

I recently acquired a project bike, at least that's what it feels like, and I began to have some clutch engagement issues to the point there was no clutch.  I have gone as far replacing both the slave and master cylinder, reading about all the other things that can go wrong.  After bleeding the circuit with a mityvac to an acceptable level, I seem to have the same issue.  There's a little clutch there, but not full disengagement when you squeeze.  I didn't pay much attention to the sound it made before, but there's definitely a clunky sound you can hear from the push rod when you squeeze the clutch.  Sometimes you don't hear the sound, but either way, no clutch.  Any ideas before I split the bike in half to look on the inside?  There wasn't any signs before that there was an issue, smooth shifts and whatnot.

 

2004 R1150R Rockster 38k 

Morning  MTRockster

 

Are you saying no cutch (slips?), or no clutch RELEASE (won't disengage?)

 

If it is no dis-engagement when clutch lever is pulled in then you either have air in the clutch hydraulics (in the line, slave cyl, or master cyl) or all 3, or you have a problem in the clutch parts (like push rod worn into, or through, the spring, or something warped in the clutch assembly.

 

Have you tried setting the clutch hand lever  adjuster   for max lever travel to see if that makes a difference? 

 

Can you tell IF the clutch lever is moving the master cyl  piston very far when you pull the lever? 

 

How does the lever feel as you pull it? Does it feel normal, or does the resistance feel late in the stroke, or does it feel odd?

 

Otherwise you might try removing the starter, then with a strong light  look into the starter hole while you pull in the clutch lever  to see if you can see what is or isn't moving & how far it moves.  You won't see much but might see enough to tell what's going on.

 

 

[MTRockster]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:42 AM, dirtrider said:

Morning  MTRockster

 

Are you saying no cutch (slips?), or no clutch RELEASE (won't disengage?)

 

If it is no dis-engagement when clutch lever is pulled in then you either have air in the clutch hydraulics (in the line, slave cyl, or master cyl) or all 3, or you have a problem in the clutch parts (like push rod worn into, or through, the spring, or something warped in the clutch assembly.

 

Have you tried setting the clutch hand lever  adjuster   for max lever travel to see if that makes a difference? 

 

Can you tell IF the clutch lever is moving the master cyl  piston very far when you pull the lever? 

 

How does the lever feel as you pull it? Does it feel normal, or does the resistance feel late in the stroke, or does it feel odd?

 

Otherwise you might try removing the starter, then with a strong light  look into the starter hole while you pull in the clutch lever  to see if you can see what is or isn't moving & how far it moves.  You won't see much but might see enough to tell what's going on.

 

 

 

Won't disengage.  The clutch lever is on it's 3 setting.  The feel begins to tighten a bit later in the pull, but the master's piston is definitely moving almost immediately on squeeze.  We just took off the starter and had a peak inside.  Some debris from the plate was present, and you can see the movement I'm currently getting.  I recorded a quick video of the internals.  Hmmm

 

 

[dirtrider]

 

Quote

 Won't disengage.  The clutch lever is on it's 3 setting.  The feel begins to tighten a bit later in the pull, but the master's piston is definitely moving almost immediately on squeeze.  We just took off the starter and had a peak inside.  Some debris from the plate was present, and you can see the movement I'm currently getting.  I recorded a quick video of the internals.  Hmmm

Morning  MTRockster

 

That clutch material doesn't make it look promising.

 

Try zip tying the clutch lever to the hand grip (to hold clutch in dis-engaged position), then try turning the rear wheel    (with trans in 6th gear).

 

Look closely as the engine spins to see if you can see the (any) clutch disk damage.  

 

It sort of looks like the clutch disk facing blew up  & partially disintegrated. 

[MTRockster]

On 8/2/2020 at 5:37 AM, dirtrider said:

 

Morning  MTRockster

 

That clutch material doesn't make it look promising.

 

Try zip tying the clutch lever to the hand grip (to hold clutch in dis-engaged position), then try turning the rear wheel    (with trans in 6th gear).

 

Look closely as the engine spins to see if you can see the (any) clutch disk damage.  

 

It sort of looks like the clutch disk facing blew up  & partially disintegrated. 

 

Alrighty, so we decided to open up the beast and the clutch plate was in definite need of replacement.  All but one section had material left on the one side.  Got the new one installed, cleaned all the parts, bled the clutch line once more for good faith and haven't put much together besides that.  Probably because I think we are not done.  I'm still not seeing much movement out of the clutch inside.  The spring looked good the push rod appears to be in good shape.  I was noticing an oddity that the push rod in this is only 258mm long and I was noticing that replacements are 270mm long.  So, now I'm wondering if something is amiss in the documentation that I'm poring through or if my spring is the issue. 

 

What do you think?

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, MTRockster said:

 

Alrighty, so we decided to open up the beast and the clutch plate was in definite need of replacement.  All but one section had material left on the one side.  Got the new one installed, cleaned all the parts, bled the clutch line once more for good faith and haven't put much together besides that.  Probably because I think we are not done.  I'm still not seeing much movement out of the clutch inside.  The spring looked good the push rod appears to be in good shape.  I was noticing an oddity that the push rod in this is only 258mm long and I was noticing that replacements are 270mm long.  So, now I'm wondering if something is amiss in the documentation that I'm poring through or if my spring is the issue. 

 

What do you think?

Morning  MTRockster

 

I think the old 1100R/RT with the cable activation &  5 speed trans used a  258mm long pushrod. It is possible that you have the wrong push rod. (or possibly the parts book is wrong on the 270mm)

 

If I get a chance later I will take a look in my old BMW service bulletins to see if BMW published a service bulletin on push rod changes or differences.   

 

With all the work  involved in getting to that pushrod you might try to find a used one on E-Bay, then give that a try to see if you get more clutch plate separation before putting the remainder on that motorcycle together. 

 

Or, possibly  find a replacement pushrod (or more than one)  on E-Bay then message the guy selling it to have them measure it for you to see if it is a different length.  

[MTRockster]

14 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  MTRockster

 

I think the old 1100R/RT with the cable activation &  5 speed trans used a  258mm long pushrod. It is possible that you have the wrong push rod. (or possibly the parts book is wrong on the 270mm)

 

If I get a chance later I will take a look in my old BMW service bulletins to see if BMW published a service bulletin on push rod changes or differences.   

 

With all the work  involved in getting to that pushrod you might try to find a used one on E-Bay, then give that a try to see if you get more clutch plate separation before putting the remainder on that motorcycle together. 

 

Or, possibly  find a replacement pushrod (or more than one)  on E-Bay then message the guy selling it to have them measure it for you to see if it is a different length.  

Pushrod is on the way.  I had the same feeling.  Here's a picture of the old disk for fun.  Heheh

[MTRockster]

Well I believe everything is working, although when we were putting the tank back on I got some leaking out of the disconnects.  So, those are going to be replaced.  Clutch feels perfect now, thanks for all the advice!