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Dreamer

Clutch with little play

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Dreamer

Hi. I just finished my trip and did 3700 km with my 2015 rt. Great bike, though I found out that the clutch lost some play, so it is in gear or not, nothing in between. I have bmw 2 year warranty, so hope that will be covered. Have the bike for around 2 months with 18.000 km on it. Is this normal that the clutch can be a problem with so little km's?

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Boxflyer

Hi Dreamer,

On both the clutch and brake levers are adjustment knobs.  They can be used to adjust for the reach of the handles from the hand grip, or to adjust the throw of the engagement.

So, for the clutch, if the 4 position knob is on #1 next to the indexing triangle, it depresses the clutch master cylinder the least and the lever is closest to the hand grip.

Moving in increasing numbers all the way up to #4 is where the lever is furthest away from the grip and you depress the clutch plunger the most.

 

Maybe this will help before you dig deeper for some other mechanical issue.

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Alfred02

My 2014 RT has a clutch that is very direct, which is normal. There is less "slip range" then my previous RT bikes or other makers bikes.

Lots of riders stall their bikes when taking of from standstill until they get used to it.

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dirtrider
4 hours ago, Dreamer said:

Hi. I just finished my trip and did 3700 km with my 2015 rt. Great bike, though I found out that the clutch lost some play, so it is in gear or not, nothing in between. I have bmw 2 year warranty, so hope that will be covered. Have the bike for around 2 months with 18.000 km on it. Is this normal that the clutch can be a problem with so little km's?

Afternoon  Dreamer

 

Can you explain the    "I found out that the clutch lost some play"  for us in more detail-- this would help us help you identify the problem area. 

 

Has the clutch engagement point changed to be closer to the hand grip, or has the engagement point become erratic & unpredictable?  

 

We can't see it, feel it, or ride it, so you need to become our eyes, ears, & hands.

 

With the engine idling in neutral-- when you pull the clutch lever in to release the clutch, then put the trans in 1st, does it go in smoothly or do you get a big jump as the gear engages?

 

I have seen (2) 1200rt lc  motorcycles now that have broken the little toggle between the clutch master cylinder &  lever (the little pork chop looking thing with the push rod on it that goes between the lever adjuster & the master cylinder piston). When this breaks the clutch engagement point moves, becomes erratic & unpredictable & makes launching the motorcycle from a stop a real pain. 

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brown

The mineral oil level in the clutch master cylinder reservoir should be checked.  If it overflows onto the bike it's no big deal since its mineral oil.  As the clutch wears the oil level increases, about every 12,000 miles the cover should be removed and take some oil out so its down to the full line.  This may help your issue???

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Dreamer
21 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Dreamer

 

Can you explain the    "I found out that the clutch lost some play"  for us in more detail-- this would help us help you identify the problem area. 

 

Has the clutch engagement point changed to be closer to the hand grip, or has the engagement point become erratic & unpredictable?  

 

We can't see it, feel it, or ride it, so you need to become our eyes, ears, & hands.

 

With the engine idling in neutral-- when you pull the clutch lever in to release the clutch, then put the trans in 1st, does it go in smoothly or do you get a big jump as the gear engages?

 

I have seen (2) 1200rt lc  motorcycles now that have broken the little toggle between the clutch master cylinder &  lever (the little pork chop looking thing with the push rod on it that goes between the lever adjuster & the master cylinder piston). When this breaks the clutch engagement point moves, becomes erratic & unpredictable & makes launching the motorcycle from a stop a real pain. 

-Cluch engagement is indeed closer to the hand grip. When I let the clutch go then only on the last moment gets grib and the play is not workable.
-When and pull the clutch lever in to release the clutch, then put the trans in 1st, I get a small jump as the gear engages?

I remember that I used the hillstart and one daa later it happend. Not sure if this is something to take into account.

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dirtrider
38 minutes ago, Dreamer said:

-Cluch engagement is indeed closer to the hand grip. When I let the clutch go then only on the last moment gets grib and the play is not workable.
-When and pull the clutch lever in to release the clutch, then put the trans in 1st, I get a small jump as the gear engages?

I remember that I used the hillstart and one daa later it happend. Not sure if this is something to take into account.

Afternoon  Dreamer

 

Still can't tell exactly what the problem is other then something isn't right with your clutch. (one of those deals where I would have to feel/see it to make a judgment)

 

It could easily be that  little toggle between the clutch master cylinder &  lever, (the little pork chop looking thing with the push rod on it that goes between the lever adjuster & the master cylinder piston). Very difficult to really tell much without removing the clutch lever & looking at that piece for being broken. (usually cracks part way through the pivot area).

 

Could also be something contaminating the clutch disks (like incorrect engine oil).

 

Or air in the clutch hydraulics (I have not seen it on the wethead 1200 bikes but some of the hexhead  motorcycles would take air into the clutch system on long hi-way runs where lots of miles traveled with no clutch usage.

 

You should probably shoot by your BMW dealer & have them take look at it for you-- even if you don't have them repair it they might be able to give you some idea on what is wrong with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Skywagon

There was a thread on here a few months ago about the engagement/release of the wethead clutch lever.  Someone noted the lever changes as the engine gets warmer...in other words it engages further out as if almost out of lever when the bike warms up.  I was pretty sure that was in the persons head (sorry to whomever posted that).  I decided to check mine the next time I rode...Sure enough it is true.  As the bike heats up the engagement level moves quiet a bit from near to far on disengagement and from far to near on engagement.  I notice it now on every ride but believe it is completely normal on the bike as the bike seems to ride just as it did when it was new (now nearly 30K miles).

 

Any chance that is what you are describing to DR or are you having trouble getting the clutch to engage all the time.  BMW dealer under warranty would be my vote too.

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LIRider
1 hour ago, Skywagon said:

There was a thread on here a few months ago about the engagement/release of the wethead clutch lever.  Someone noted the lever changes as the engine gets warmer...in other words it engages further out as if almost out of lever when the bike warms up.  I was pretty sure that was in the persons head (sorry to whomever posted that).  I decided to check mine the next time I rode...Sure enough it is true.  As the bike heats up the engagement level moves quiet a bit from near to far on disengagement and from far to near on engagement.  I notice it now on every ride but believe it is completely normal on the bike as the bike seems to ride just as it did when it was new (now nearly 30K miles).

 

Any chance that is what you are describing to DR or are you having trouble getting the clutch to engage all the time.  BMW dealer under warranty would be my vote too.

  I definitely noticed that when I first got my 2016 RT.  I'm sure it's still there but I don't notice it nearly as much after 4 years with the bike.  I think I simply compensate automatically for the change as the bike warms up. 

 

 

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dirtrider
2 hours ago, Skywagon said:

There was a thread on here a few months ago about the engagement/release of the wethead clutch lever.  Someone noted the lever changes as the engine gets warmer...in other words it engages further out as if almost out of lever when the bike warms up.  I was pretty sure that was in the persons head (sorry to whomever posted that).  I decided to check mine the next time I rode...Sure enough it is true.  As the bike heats up the engagement level moves quiet a bit from near to far on disengagement and from far to near on engagement.  I notice it now on every ride but believe it is completely normal on the bike as the bike seems to ride just as it did when it was new (now nearly 30K miles).

 

Any chance that is what you are describing to DR or are you having trouble getting the clutch to engage all the time.  BMW dealer under warranty would be my vote too.

Afternoon  Skywagon

 

The big difference is: your clutch change has always been there & it is easy to manage, apparently  Dreamer's just started & it is NOW very difficult for him to launch the motorcycle (so something big has changed on  Dreamer's motorcycle) 

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Dreamer

The Blue Spaceship will go to the dealer in two weeks!
I will update the findings here!
Until then I will only polish the bike (-: 

 

Besides the clutch the bike is a great pleasure to ride on de the Motorway and even in the mountains (when clutch was oke).
Only downside I found riding the bike for 6 hours daily is the saddle. Its a stock saddle, most find something more comfy.
My wife had less problems with the backseat. 

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Motorhead1977

As far as the saddle goes we just upgraded to a Sargent Performance Plus seat and IMHO it is fabulous. I have a 29" inseam so the low version was a must and although many swear by the Russell Day Long but I can't use a seat that adds that much height to the bike. Got it while they had a 15% off offer.

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NumbHands

We have drifted to saddles, but I ditto Motorhead1977 post. I bought my 2014 and first 100+ mile ride I thought for sure I had made a big mistake. I was so uncomfortable. Mind you, I was coming off a custom Russell on the 1150RT that was unbelievable. But to fix this problem, I bought a Sargent Performance Plus. Voila! Pain gone. And I can do 10 hours again.

 

 

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Dreamer

Hi Moterhead1977 and NumbHands, thanks for the reply on the saddle issue .
I investigated this and think that the options for my 2015 RT are: 

1. Integrated seat WS-644-SE-IHFR
2. separate seats: WS-644F-SE-IH WS-644R-SE-IH
 

What is to prefer? One integrated seat or two separte (front/rear) seats?


3. Welt choice: I have Sam Marino Blue bike. What you advise color welt?  


4. There is an UK site and US (default) site. As I am from Europe I think ordering through UK!?

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NumbHands

Can't speak to the rear seat. In my case, it is still a stock item. The OEM pilot's seat was black so I bought black. Heated model. 

 

Michael

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Motorhead1977

I bought the split (2 piece) seat as it is the factory setup for my bike ('18 R1200RTW) and my original seat was also heated.  Because of that I got it with heat since we do ride in some cooler weather here in the NE USA.  The welt on my original seat was black but I decided that as my bike is Mars Red and I didn't want to get the red welt I went with the grey which IMHO looks very good.  Color is such a subjective thing  so I would look at the blue welt they may have available to see what your eye tells you.  In any event if you're unsure about the blue it seems to me that the grey would look good with yours as well.   My wife has told me that the rear seat is also light years more comfortable that the factory seat. AFAIK you would need to order from the UK website to get the proper treatment for shipping.  Here in the USA the shipping was at N/C. 

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Dreamer

Thanks motorhead1977, will do split seats as i have from factory setting and black welt to be sure. 

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Dreamer

Due to corona it takes at least two weeks, so I will be waiting.

Alternative could also have been a Topsellerie saddle, like I have on my old K75, which, on the contrary of the default RT saddle,  I can ride whole day.
I choose this time the Sargent Performance Plus as I read many positive experiences.

But... has anyone a Topsellerie saddle on their RT bike?

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AndyS

How has this moved from a clutch problem to a seating issue?

Really you need a separate thread for the seating issue and not take this clutch issue off on a 'red herring'.

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Motorhead1977
On 7/28/2020 at 5:19 PM, Dreamer said:

The Blue Spaceship will go to the dealer in two weeks!
I will update the findings here!
Until then I will only polish the bike (-: 

 

Besides the clutch the bike is a great pleasure to ride on de the Motorway and even in the mountains (when clutch was oke).
Only downside I found riding the bike for 6 hours daily is the saddle. Its a stock saddle, most find something more comfy.
My wife had less problems with the backseat. 

The OP also raised the question of the stock saddle and it's built in discomfort level, that's how.

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AndyS
15 hours ago, Motorhead1977 said:

The OP also raised the question of the stock saddle and it's built in discomfort level, that's how.

Not in the OP though.

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Dreamer

It's fine to get the advice here, wandered a bit of topic AndyS  but will come back on the clutch issue here next week once the dealer took care of it. 

 

 

 

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Dreamer

Today I left the RT1200 (2015) at the dealer for inspection and just contacted me that they think the cluch is oke!?! Unbelievable! The have given the bike to some test person and he thought nothing is wrong. But the clutch play I had before is definitely gone. Tonight someone will testdrive the bike for an longer distance to see what happens when the bike is heated. Strange development!

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dirtrider
2 hours ago, Dreamer said:

Today I left the RT1200 (2015) at the dealer for inspection and just contacted me that they think the cluch is oke!?! Unbelievable! The have given the bike to some test person and he thought nothing is wrong. But the clutch play I had before is definitely gone. Tonight someone will testdrive the bike for an longer distance to see what happens when the bike is heated. Strange development!

Morning  Dreamer

 

Possibly your clutch hydraulics had a bit of air in line that finally worked it's way out on your trip.

 

In any case, when you go to pick your motorcycle up feel the clutches on some similar motorcycles that are in the showroom. Or, even better yet,  see if they will let you ride a similar type demo bike to compare clutch operation.

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Dreamer
18 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  Dreamer

 

Possibly your clutch hydraulics has a bit of air in line that finally worked it's way out your trip.

 

In any case, when you go to pick your motorcycle up feel the clutches on some similar motorcycles that are in the showroom. Or, even better yet,  see if they will let you ride a similar type demo bike to compare clutch operation.

That's a good idea!

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Dreamer

This is an example on another motorcycle to show what the problem is, also send that to the dealer. 
https://vimeo.com/447149034/cd1b84bb9e

The first picture is how it was before my trip and the second two weeks later. The clutch fully engages but the space between no engagement and engagement has been minimalized.

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