Metzler R or an O

[MichiganBob]

Hi All,

 

Going to replace by Metzler 180/55 Roadtec with the same tire due to a severe flat and plenty of tire life left on the front. I'm looking at Revzilla for my tire and they have a choice between a "R" or an "O." I'm not seeing these letters on my tire. Does anyone know what these letters signify and which is the right one for my bike?

 

Thanks.

 

MB

[MichiganBob]

I just came across this:

 

• O-Spec features a bi-compound design and a 2-ply carcass for heavy sport-touring bikes
• M-Spec tires feature a bi-compound design

I'm not sure what the difference is here and which to select. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

MB

[LAF]

Well it always seems people say if you are ridding heavy with two up a lot you need the O spec.  Normally that is a different letter for the designation but no matter.   I have run both a "normal" rated and a heavy spec on bikes and no problems or issues.   If you look at the specs they are both rated at the same weight and speed.   It is your choice but it does anger me that they have two tires with the same weight limits and speed ratings but designate one for heavy bikes?   And they charge more! 

 

Micheline Rep told me it is NOT side wall, it is center cords and layers where the difference is.

 

[MichiganBob]

Thanks LAF. Tires are the same price at Revzilla. I'm wondering if there is a difference in feel or longevity? I never ride two up but the 2018RTWC is probably considered a heavy sport touring bike with saddlebags and top case filled.

 

MB

[Bernie]

My 2018 R1200RT-LC was delivered with a Z-8 “C” compound rear tire. I replaced it twice with a Z=8 “O” compound tire.

I didn’t notice much difference in handling or mileage.

The “C” lasted almost 6,000 miles and the 2 “O” lasted 4,700 (nail in tire) and 5,700 miles.

Check the prices at RockyMountainAtv 

RMC.com

 

[MichiganBob]

And the mystery continues. Just got back from a trip with my buddy on his Kawasaki Concurs who just turned 12,000 miles with his Pirelli Angel GT. I doubt I ever got 6k on any tire other than the ME88 in 52 years of riding. 

[BamaJohn]

Considering that the only mileage that counts is what you get & that depends on what/where/how you ride.  On my '17 RT, I've yet to see 6000 miles on a set, no matter who made them, so you, too, might get to try many brands 😎🎶

[Bernie]

9 minutes ago, BamaJohn said:

Considering that the only mileage that counts is what you get & that depends on what/where/how you ride.  On my '17 RT, I've yet to see 6000 miles on a set, no matter who made them, so you, too, might get to try many brands 😎🎶

And I thought it was something I was doing wrong. 

[strataj]

1 hour ago, BamaJohn said:

Considering that the only mileage that counts is what you get & that depends on what/where/how you ride.  On my '17 RT, I've yet to see 6000 miles on a set, no matter who made them, so you, too, might get to try many brands 😎🎶

Bernie said:

And I thought it was something I was doing wrong. 

 

I think it's a large club, just silent.  I too am a member    When I see others with 8,000. 12,000 even 18,000 I just shake my head. 

[MichiganBob]

I have to think that there is some logic to this variance but after so many years on this forum and so many tire threads with incredible miles posted, I'm just plain baffled. It's like the guy sitting at the feet of the Buddha who says that "while I can explain the meaning of life, I can't comprehend how there are two identical models and one gets 5-6 K on a rear tire and someone else 9-12 K."

 

MB 

[Veefore]

Same here.......5400 on my Z8's then a nail in the rear.  They had 1k left if I was lucky and were affecting handling..  Conti Roadattack 3's just went on.

[LAF]

Yes I get around 7 or 8 if I am lucky.  I too wonder on these 10 and 12K tires.  I need to find the Unicorn of a tire's that will do that for me.

[Bernie]

If I would have to choose between the Continental RoadAttack 3GT and the Michelin Pilot Road 5GT, I think I would choose the Michelin PR5GT.

The mileage for the 2 sets of Conti RA3GT was around 1K less than the mileage I got with the 3 sets Metzler Z8 tires.

The Pirelli Angel GT "A" Tire set lasted 4K for the front and 5 K for the rear. 

As for the Michelin PR5GT tire set,  I am still working on the original set.

I did make one change from all the other set of tires for this 2018 R12RT-LC, I increased the air pressure for the front tire to 40-41 PSI cold (68F) and 42-43 PSI cold (68F) for the rear tire. The handling has been fantastic so far.

[MichiganBob]

I'm back seeking suggestions on a challenge.  I ended up buying another Metzler Roadtech after my flat tire in a O-spec. Now I need a front and I can only find one in a M-Spec. What's your thought on the safety/handling of mixing a O-Spec rear with a M-Spec front?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

MB

[Skywagon]

Im on the other end of that.  I have yet to get less than 12,000-15,000 miles on any tire (except the ones I took off early because they sucked) and I take them off long before they are worn out.  It is a mystery. I change them at 12k service intervals and the dealers ask why so early. Most of my riding is getting out of Houston to the country.  I ride speed limits mostly and do spirited riding maybe 25% of the time.  I suspect the spirited riding is the reason I get long mileage and others shorter.

[LAF]

3 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

I'm back seeking suggestions on a challenge.  I ended up buying another Metzler Roadtech after my flat tire in a O-spec. Now I need a front and I can only find one in a M-Spec. What's your thought on the safety/handling of mixing a O-Spec rear with a M-Spec front?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

MB

It would make no difference to me or you.

 

[LAF]

3 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Im on the other end of that.  I have yet to get less than 12,000-15,000 miles on any tire (except the ones I took off early because they sucked) and I take them off long before they are worn out.  It is a mystery. I change them at 12k service intervals and the dealers ask why so early. Most of my riding is getting out of Houston to the country.  I ride speed limits mostly and do spirited riding maybe 25% of the time.  I suspect the spirited riding is the reason I get long mileage and others shorter.

Please tell me how?  I get 8K and I am thrilled.

[9Mary7]

7 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

I'm back seeking suggestions on a challenge.  I ended up buying another Metzler Roadtech after my flat tire in a O-spec. Now I need a front and I can only find one in a M-Spec. What's your thought on the safety/handling of mixing a O-Spec rear with a M-Spec front?

 

You will not experience any safety or handling issues by running a M spec tire on the front of your RT.

[Skywagon]

LAF....I haven't a clue why I get that mileage and why others get less.  Same tires as many post here.  Most seem to run about the same pressures.  I don't really think it is the road conditions or surface entirely as the country roads I ride are really rough with constant curves...very grainy, not sure what you call the material surface. When in the country my rides are usually 250-500 miles on the weekends.  I'm usually clicking along at 70-85 ish with the occasional burst to triple digits. The only possible clue I can offer is breaking.  I try really hard to not use my brakes.  I use the engine for brakes mostly and when I do use brakes I try to do it in a straight line.  On hard twistys I like to enter at a speed where I am accelerating not braking.  Who know why but I do believe people get 4k and I've clearly seen folks like me who get 12k and above.

 

My best friends son rides a Tenere and FJR in Austin Texas.  He commutes to work pretty much rain or shine.  He too gets 12k and above on both bikes.  Maybe just luck.

[AndyS]

13 hours ago, LAF said:

Please tell me how?  I get 8K and I am thrilled.

 If I got 7000 i'd be more than thrilled!

[LAF]

10 hours ago, Skywagon said:

LAF....I haven't a clue why I get that mileage and why others get less.  Same tires as many post here.  Most seem to run about the same pressures.  I don't really think it is the road conditions or surface entirely as the country roads I ride are really rough with constant curves...very grainy, not sure what you call the material surface. When in the country my rides are usually 250-500 miles on the weekends.  I'm usually clicking along at 70-85 ish with the occasional burst to triple digits. The only possible clue I can offer is breaking.  I try really hard to not use my brakes.  I use the engine for brakes mostly and when I do use brakes I try to do it in a straight line.  On hard twistys I like to enter at a speed where I am accelerating not braking.  Who know why but I do believe people get 4k and I've clearly seen folks like me who get 12k and above.

 

My best friends son rides a Tenere and FJR in Austin Texas.  He commutes to work pretty much rain or shine.  He too gets 12k and above on both bikes.  Maybe just luck.

I think it is braking also.  While road surface will wear a tire, braking and accelerating out of corners will do more damage IMHO.  First your over on a smaller contact patch and in most instances a different type of rubber or compound on that area of the tire.  I can  not think of any other reason front tires cup as they do on these bikes.  That is really my issue they become loud, and have a horrible profile.

 

I have always stuck to the 40/42.  I think I am going to try 38/40 on the next new set.  Of course the way 2020 has been, I may have these Scorpions on for a long time.

[Skywagon]

3 hours ago, AndyS said:

 If I got 7000 i'd be more than thrilled!

if I got 7000 I would be pish off

 

LAF.. your pressures should be fine. Just for info I run 38/42. I’m 6’ and about 190lbs. My bags carry about 15lbs between the 3. 
 

My Harley buddies who ride Ultra Classic 1000lb bikes laugh at my low tire mileage. They get 20k. I tell them their bikes don’t go fast enough to wear out tires

 

im curious what mileage some of the smaller bikes like 650’s get

[strataj]

I'm with Andy S, 7,000 would be great. 

 

I don't know how you can get 12,000 without riding below speed limits.  Skywagon, do you have a picture you can share with us, love to see a tire with 12,000 sMiles on it. 

[Skywagon]

I did this 15 minutes ago. 9158 Miles on these...the tire gauge photo isn't real clear.  It was taken on the front and just shy of 3mm. PR4GT's  I don't think I ride slow.  Our local BMW club does rides every weekend.  Until Covid I usually did one a month.  We break into 3 groups.  The fast group which is 1300kt's,  GS's, and me on my RT.  The second group is the normal group, and the third group is the slower group.  In the fast group we pretty much tear it up the whole way.  It's all country, constant turns, some fast sweepers, etc.  There is only one guy I can't keep full pace with on his 1300.  I stay with him until long straights and then he pulls me some.  I catch him on the next set of turns.

[strataj]

WOW that's a lot of tread left at 9,158 miles, I can't even dream of that.  I ride mostly chip n seal roads, that's the hardest on tires, sounds like you too ride this surface.  My front tire last about 1 and half the life of a rear.  I run 38/42 but I do keep weight in my top case, tools and such. 

 

Stay safe and enjoy! 

[Bernie]

I finally got almost 7,000 miles on a set of tires. Michelin Pilot Road 5GT, are at the wear indicators. They most likely be good for another 1,000 miles+, but I have to change, because I am leaving for FART soon. I have been using 40 psi front and 42 psi rear, as indicated by the TPS. Which is an actual 42-43 psi front and 44 psi rear measured cold (75 F).

Before the highest I got was 6,000 miles, using Metzler Z-8, which where bald at that point, front and back.

Maybe the pavement in TX is less abrasive?

[Hank in WV]

I rarely get 7000. Doesn't matter what brand. I ride briskly but acceleration and hard braking never really did it for me. Engine braking mostly. Can only dream of 12000 mi.

[Red]

I have a theory.  Roads that are paved with sedimentary rock/river rock have less sharp edged gravel.  Hence less traction and less wear on tyres.  Roads that are paved with volcanic origin rock which are hare and have sharp edges provide more traction and more tyre wear.  Generally speaking the western states have more volcanic rock in their roads.  The south, mid west and east coast tend to be softer rounder pavement.  Those in igneous pavement areas get better traction and less mileage while those in sedimentary pavement areas get less traction and greater mileage on their tyres.  

[Bernie]

Well Red, your theory is probably correct. I live in North Florida. Using your theory, the pavement is really slick and then most of my tire wear must be because of my tires spinning and sliding. While our friend from Texas has better traction and that causes less tire wear and better gas mileage. 
Or is a mental defect of the bike operator and he can’t control his right hand? 
If I have learned anything at all in the last 20 years of riding BMW RT’s and this forum is that your mileage will vary. 
I have friends following me on a similar RT, at the same speed, getting almost double the miles on their tires and 5 mpg more. They must be drafting. 😂 

[MichiganBob]

Changing front tire tomorrow. Severe cupping at 6,000 miles and needs to be in tip top shape for the trip down to Springfield next weekend for the famous Mile. . Dealer said I should run 40 front and 42 rear on the Metzler Roadtechs. 40 front sure seems high but he was adamant that the cupping was due to underinflation which was kept at 37 per the owner manual.  It's really confusing.

 

MB

[9Mary7]

On authority bikes we usually replaced a rear at every service (6k) and fronts every 8k-10k.

We used Metzlers, Z6's and then Z8's. They still use Z8's.

[KMC1]

I'll just chime in on this to share a quick thought - the heavier rated tires have much stiffer sidewalls and therefore will stay on the rim bead much longer in the event you should lose air while riding. GLHF.

[bendbill]

Like Skywagon, I regularly saw 9-11 K miles over 5 pair  of Michelins on my ST 1300 , which weighed more than my current wethead.  Most of those miles were on Oregon, NorCal, ID, and MT roads.

 

My 2018 RT came with Metzlers, replaced at 6 K after a blowout. I did not care for the Metz.  I now ride on Dunlop RS IIIs, the tire of choice for Bend PD on their RTs.  

[Skywagon]

Bill....I first starting riding BMW when I lived in NCal.  I got similar mileage as you on an R900, R100RT, and R1150RT.  The dealer always wanted to use Metzlers but I found them not having the grip I needed and have been on Michelins probably since 2005 or so.  They cost a lot more but I've been real happy with the generations of PR's except the 3's.  They lasted long but thought they road walked some.  I'm on my last set of PR 4GT's.  I will likely go PR 5GT's if available by December or so when I hit 12K on these.

[MichiganBob]

My next tires need to get a little better mileage, maybe 8K rear and 10K front and be super quiet. I heard good things about the Dunlop Roadsmart Sportmax III.  Anyone run these past or present or have feedback on them?

 

Many thanks.

 

MB

[strataj]

1 hour ago, MichiganBob said:

My next tires need to get a little better mileage, maybe 8K rear and 10K front and be super quiet. I heard good things about the Dunlop Roadsmart Sportmax III.  Anyone run these past or present or have feedback on them?

 

Many thanks.

 

MB

The RS III are good, they seem to last the longest of all the tires I have ridden (PR4, Z8, Angle GT) They have good grip on both wet and dry surfaces but I won't buy them again.  They are way to difficult to mount/dismount.  Since I do my own tire installation that's an important factor for me.  I needed help to install and when it came to dismount I just cut the rear tire off (around the side wall).  Too many other good tires to deal with that much trouble. 

[MichiganBob]

Good lord strataj, that must be one hell of a sidewall.

[strataj]

Yes, the sidewalls are very stiff.  I have a no-mar tire machine and use their helping hands, didn't work. It's to hard to get and keep the tire in the valley to mount.  

[Red]

One of the reasons I like Metzler is I believe they are the only motorcycle tire mfgr that manufactures ONLY motorcycle tires.  I think that gives them more focus on their sole source of customers. 

[strataj]

9 hours ago, Red said:

One of the reasons I like Metzler is I believe they are the only motorcycle tire mfgr that manufactures ONLY motorcycle tires.  I think that gives them more focus on their sole source of customers. 

Metzler is owned .Pirelli Tire, see attached

Tire Brands Who Owns them.pdf

[Red]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

That drops Metzler from the gold medal platform to silver.  Still, one does not know how or if their R&D is independent, enhanced, or compromised from the parent/subsidiary relationship.   Buffet lets his companies keep on doing what how they do things best.  Others simply use them as cash cows.  Some companies become 'owned' to raise capital and continue what they do best or on the other end, try to save their ass.  Hard to tell if MEZ operates mostly independently or if the parent Co. pulls all the strings and the subsidiary is just a shell. 

[MichiganBob]

Just read this review from Motor Mouth Moshe comparing the Dunlop Sportsmax Roadsmart III with the PR4GT. He got 18,227 on the Dunlap and 13,292 on the PR on a 2016 RT.  These kind of mileages amaze me. Here is the link: