2004 R1150RT engine quits

[thefishruler]

What  colored wire in the left handle bar would cause the the bike to shut down when turning the bares to the left stop, it does not happen all the time. When you turn the handle bar  back a little it will start up when started?

[AndyS]

Why do you isolate this to the left handlebar?

 

[dirtrider]

20 hours ago, thefishruler said:

What  colored wire in the left handle bar would cause the the bike to shut down when turning the bares to the left stop, it does not happen all the time. When you turn the handle bar  back a little it will start up when started?

Afternoon   thefishruler

 

It's usually on the right hand side, usually the large red wire or the smaller green wire & the break usually happens close to the zip tie at the steering neck area. Not much on the L/H side can cause a shutdown.

[thefishruler]

Thank you I will check them out .

[thefishruler]

It only happened when I turned the handle bar to the left but I sill check out the right.

[Mrclubike]

Just because it  cuts out  turning to the  left  does not  rule out an issue  with  the wiring on the right 

 

[Hosstage]

On a different brand bike my headlight would cut out when turning right mostly, left sometimes, had a broken ground wire in the loom at the right side of the neck. 

[AndyS]

Often it is not related to the left of the right handlebar, but the wiring that then goes down in front of the steering head. Quite a few bikes had looms that had been cable tied too tightly . This resulted in fracture of some of the wires.

[roger 04 rt]

I'm jump into this thread rather than start another.

 

I had a similar event on my 2001 R1150GS last week. Approaching a stop, the bike died, two seconds later it was running. Very much an electrical feel to the problem. It was on, it was off, it was back on, all in a couple seconds.

 

When the problem is in the right hand cable bundle, does the wire fully fracture?

 

P.S. I've wiggled the bundles, reseated and checked all fuses and relays. I haven't yet checked the side stand switch.

[dirtrider]

43 minutes ago, roger 04 rt said:

I'm jump into this thread rather than start another.

 

I had a similar event on my 2001 R1150GS last week. Approaching a stop, the bike died, two seconds later it was running. Very much an electrical feel to the problem. It was on, it was off, it was back on, all in a couple seconds.

 

When the problem is in the right hand cable bundle, does the wire fully fracture?

 

P.S. I've wiggled the bundles, reseated and checked all fuses and relays. I haven't yet checked the side stand switch.

Afternoon Roger

 

The (red or green)  wire usually breaks but the ends don't separate as the insulation holds the ends in contact. The problem usually starts acting up as you turn the handlebars, then, when it gets bad enough it can happen even while riding straight but it still usually acts up more (& more often)  when the handlebars are turned.

 

If your problem isn't showing up when turning the handlebars then it sounds like something else is causing the problem. 

 

 

On the later (twin spark) 1150 bikes there was a similar stalling issue due to the o2 sensor pig tail routing near the R/H spark plug wire. This isn't usually an issue on the single spark engines unless someone has messed with the o2 sensor wire routing.

 

I have seen a few early 1150 engines where the R/H TB cam would contact the R/H spark plug wire (then wear through it)  at closed throttle  but this isn't a common thing. (just worth a look)

 

Can you remember what the tac was doing just before the stall? Sometimes this will give us a hint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[roger 04 rt]

Afternoon DR,

I was slowing for a stop in a shallow turn to the left. It came and went quickly and I didn’t notice the tach. I put a new HES in three years ago. 

[dirtrider]

14 minutes ago, roger 04 rt said:

Afternoon DR,

I was slowing for a stop in a shallow turn to the left. It came and went quickly and I didn’t notice the tach. I put a new HES in three years ago. 

Afternoon Roger

 

Try sitting on the motorcycle (both wheels on the ground) with the engine idling. 

 

Then slowly turn the handlebars a few degrees in both directions, then if no stall or falter try turning the bars farther & faster. 

 

As a rule when those wires start to break you can reproduce the problem sitting still turning the bars back & forth.

 

If you pulled on or messed with the wire harness that might make it more difficult to find the problem until it returns while riding.   

 

 

[roger 04 rt]

Thanks DR,

I haven’t moved the harnesses much and will try it like you’ve outlined.  
 

The way Murphy’s Law works, the next time I encounter this I’ll be riding. 

[roger 04 rt]

I tried moving the handlebars and didn't have much luck. Then I slowly started moving the ignition harness about 2" from the ignition switch. I moved it up/down and left right and then in a circular motion. The RID went out for moment, and the fuel pump cycled. However, I can't make it happen again but since I wasn't being aggressive with the motions, I think I've found the culprit and it seems like it is in that bundle or the switch.

 

Is it a wire in that bundle that usually breaks?

 

P.S. The ignition bundle is not tightly tie-wrapped near the main bundle.

[dirtrider]

15 minutes ago, roger 04 rt said:

I tried moving the handlebars and didn't have much luck. Then I slowly started moving the ignition harness about 2" from the ignition switch. I moved it up/down and left right and then in a circular motion. The RID went out for moment, and the fuel pump cycled. However, I can't make it happen again but since I wasn't being aggressive with the motions, I think I've found the culprit and it seems like it is in that bundle or the switch.

 

Is it a wire in that bundle that usually breaks?

 

P.S. The ignition bundle is not tightly tie-wrapped near the main bundle.

 

Afternoon Roger

 

Don't discount the ignition switch itself (not the upper cylinder) but the lower (removable) switch assembly (comes out the bottom of the switch  assembly).

 

Sometimes the lower part of the switch will move around on the internal contacts.  

 

Or even a terminal pin being brunt, pushed back slightly, or loose on it's mating terminal pin.

[roger 04 rt]

Morning DR,

After more tries I can recreate it somewhat reliably by wiggling the bundle going into the switch. 
 

What’s the rough outline of how to remove the switch? 
 

Also if anyone has any recommendations for the best way to re-wrap harness wires, I’d appreciate it. 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, roger 04 rt said:

Morning DR,

After more tries I can recreate it somewhat reliably by wiggling the bundle going into the switch. 
 

What’s the rough outline of how to remove the switch? 
 

Also if anyone has any recommendations for the best way to re-wrap harness wires, I’d appreciate it. 

Afternoon Roger 

 

On the side of the ignition switch housing there is small set screw, that set screw is usually covered with a sealer that has to be scraped/picked out to access the set screw. 

 

Once the set screw is removed then the actual switch with wire pig tail will just pull out the bottom. 

 

On the wire coverings?--  I usually just tape the wire bundles every few inches (to maintain loom integrity) then use (properly sized)  black split convoluted plastic wire loom covering  (auto parts store or E-Bay).

 

That black convoluted wire covering goes on easily, is very abrasive resistant, lasts forever, looks good,  & best part, allows future wire access without cutting the wire covering open. 

 

[roger 04 rt]

Thanks DR, That'll get me going.

[roger 04 rt]

I've removed the ignition switch and the wires of the harness seem intact. No amount of flexing the wires creates a glitch in the power. I've also disassembled the switch and nothing looks like a bad smoking gun but there is some discoloration around the main power contact. There is also a large voltage drop across the contacts that power lights--about 300 mV.

 

Since flexing the harness going into the switch caused a brief open when the ignition switch was installed, it is seeming like the problem is in the contacts. I'm going to examine the internals of the switch more and then make some measurements while the engine is running to further load the main red wire/green wire contact path.

 

The joys of owning an old bike ...

[roger 04 rt]

The voltage drop across the main contacts (green/red) is tiny so those contacts are fine. After examining the contacts further and reinstalling, I can't get the intermittent drop out to occur. So for now, I've put it all back together and I'll just have to ride until (or if) I get another electrical power loss.

[dirtrider]

Just now, roger 04 rt said:

The voltage drop across the main contacts (green/red) is tiny so those contacts are fine. After examining the contacts further and reinstalling, I can't get the intermittent drop out to occur. So for now, I've put it all back together and I'll just have to ride until (or if) I get another electrical power loss.

Morning Roger

 

 

There is also a large voltage drop across the contacts that power lights--about 300 mV.--- The old Harley EVO bikes had a similar problem with their ignition switch carrying full system & lighting load. Their fix was a recall to add a power relay to take the load off of the ignition switch contacts. 

[roger 04 rt]

Morning DR,

 

On my 1150RT with three ignition coils there was a large drop across the main contacts. I did add a relay and it did make a big improvement to engine smoothness. Since this is just the lights and I didn't see any contact damage, I've decided to leave it for now. I should measure the current though, the two light circuits could result in a few watts per contact at 400mV (corrected myself on the 300 mV).

 

[thefishruler]

I am a little late getting back 3200 mile trip. When I got to Las Vegas first stop at hotel bike stopped running had it towed to BMW dealer in Vegas. 3 pm sat after noon, open tell 6 pm they were great problem was ing. light switch. They could not get one for 3 days. I ask if they could rig it with a switch they did and I continued on my 2 week trip. the dealership was great. I ordered a switch and am installing it now. Oh it was 113 degrees when I got into Vegas .