Bike prep and things to look for - handlebars?

[kbddbd]

Hello - New to this forum and BMW bikes. I know all machines have their quirks and am looking to work down the list of things to check, things to never do, or always do, etc... from folks who know their way around these bikes. I am open to any communication. I just bought my first BMW bike Its a 1994 R1100RS 72K miles. It runs very well and looks like its been taken care of. I have been reading about and think I know the basics; TB sync, pivot bearing, final drive lubrication....  I mostly need to move the handlebars back and a bit wider but cant quite figure out how and am looking for ways to make my own tools if possible for the sync tool. Also looking for a good source for rear tail bag. At 72K miles are there things I should be doing as a preventative measure? Wheel bearings, fuel pumps, or maybe cam chain? those kinds of things?

 

I am an experienced mechanic - heavy technical is OK 

[Jim Moore]

Two things I would do right away if they haven't been done already.  I would replace the front brake lines with steel braided lines, and I would  replace the ignition timer (AKA Hall Effect Sensor). Those are both known problem areas on an older oilhead. Besides that, change the fluids and air filter, adjust the valves, synch the throttle bodies, and ride it for awhile.

[Doctare]

kbddbd

For TB sync I use 2-30+ feet of (i think) 5/16 clear tubing (With two barbed connectors because I only found 20 foot lengths).  I put on end in a bottle of antifreeze (for the color) and run it up 10 feet (or more) over a soft bend and back down to the floor to  my TBs.  It's got a scale of several feet but be careful not to pull the antifreeze over the top.  That would be bad.

[TEDZ]

I use 2 stroke oil.  It's easy to see in the tube and not catastrophic if sucked into the engine.

[kbddbd]

Thank you for those adds - I wasnt aware of the hall effect issue but will look into it for sure. The brake lines I had thought about doing anyways eventually.

 

The biggest problem is I am not sure of a good parts warehouse online. I live in a very remote place so have to order everything. I cant find any handlebar pieces and am even having problems finding basic service parts. 

 

What are the best sites for BMW bikes?

[RogerC60]

For new and used parts I've bought from Beemer Boneyard. They have excellent service and also pretty good prices on maintenance part kits. I've bought used parts from Bike Strippers (via eBay) with good results. Some folks on here have reported good success with Steel's Cycle.

[Rinkydink]

Bob’s BMW, although a tad expensive is usually a good source. Use “FREEDOM10” until midnight tonight (EST) for 10% off online orders. 
 

Linky

[Lowndes]

For the Hall Effect Sensor (HES), a member here (GSAddict) rewires them with heat rated wire and a new connector for a very reasonable price and does a very good job of it.  The sensors themselves very seldom give problems, it's 99.9% always the wires inside the sheath where the insulation crumbles and the wires short.  GSAddict is in Canada and you have to follow his instructions "to the letter" when you send him your HES or Canada Customs will be a huge problem.  I sent mine USPS and declaired the value as "$0.00" (because it was dead) and had no problem both times.  Here are some B4 and after pics of his work: https://goo.gl/photos/xriJRtXqd1mHDmZ78

 

On my three '99 era BMW's I've found that synthetic oil in the Final Drive, gear box, and engine will weep around the shaft seals enough to look bad.  Back to dino oil and it quits.

 

The OEM seats are seldom comfortable for our backsides for some reason.  You might do some research on aftermarket seats, Corbin, Russell, Sargent.  I bought two on ebay for cheap.  Try several brands first, two hours min.

 

When you next order something from Beemer Boneyard, include a set of feeler gauges ($12) for setting the valves - you are suppose to do both intake (and both exhaust) valves at the same time, takes two each.  https://www.beemerboneyard.com/wurthoilhead.html

 

Stay away from FRAM oil filters, lots of reports of problems with BMW bike engines.

 

You might consider a TPMS ($35).  I've been riding with two guys that had punctures, didn't know it and went down.  One of mine alerted me last fall after a lunch stop and possibly prevented me from going down.  I wouldn't have noticed the very low pressure without the alert.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/TPMS-LCD-Tire-Pressure-Monitoring-System-Sensors-Safe-for-Motorcycle-Riding-A5O6/353112559950?hash=item523726114e:g:QosAAOSw6gpe7D8v

 

Safe Travels!!

 

 

 

 

[TypicalA**Kikr]

Good question. I am picking up some ideas from the other replies. 

 

I smelled fuel on my 02 r1150rt less than a week after buying it. Turned out one of the plastic quick disconnects on the fuel line cracked. From what I gather this is a common problem. For me it would be worth it to spend the $80 bucks with beemerboneyard and replace them with metal. 

 

Also if you do your fuel pump i much prefer the euromotoelectrics kit over bby. 

 

My homemade manometer for the tb adjustment did not work. Thankfully i used fuel stabilizer. It got sucked straight into the left tb. My 2 cents, grab a carb tuner or digital manometer. 

 

Good luck! 

[dirtrider]

On 7/5/2020 at 10:27 AM, kbddbd said:

I mostly need to move the handlebars back and a bit wider but cant quite figure out how and am looking for ways to make my own tools if possible for the sync tool. Also looking for a good source for rear tail bag. At 72K miles are there things I should be doing as a preventative measure? Wheel bearings, fuel pumps, or maybe cam chain? those kinds of things?

 

I am an experienced mechanic - heavy technical is OK 

Morning kbddbd

 

You need to be careful of  what you read on the (early)  1100RS,  those BMW's as sort of outliers. Some things are just like the 1100RT & 1100GS & others are enough different that 1100RT/GS things/procedures don't apply.

 

Your early 1100RS came from the factory with a single cable throttle system (no splitter box) so those were a bit of  pain to get the throttle synced properly (especially if using common knowledge syncing procedures used on later 1100 motorcycles)--Not rocket science but different.  On the single cable system on older 1100 motorcycles  it is very difficult/ to almost impossible  to get  the idle sync & the above idle sync perfect. So I usually concentrate on the above idle sync & allow the base curb  idle to be off slightly. *(you ride the motorcycle at the above idle range  but never ride it at base curb idle  so you want it best possible in the riding range not in the  no-load curb idle range)

 

You also have to be careful to NOT use the choke to start the engine just prior to setting the TB balance as on the single cable system, using the choke (not really a choke but just a fast idle) skews the cable position on the L/H TB pulley & that allows the TB balance to change when you ride the motorcycle after the TB sync. 

 

To complicate it even more, over the years, some of the early single cable systems were converted to the later split cable system with Bowden splitter box. 

 

You can easily make your own U tube manometer to sync the throttle bodies (see picture below) , in fact a simple homemade U tube manometer is a fair bit more accurate than expensive electronic or gauge type syncing tools. The U tube usage just needs understanding to use properly so the fluid doesn't get sucked out at first try (small aquarium air bubbler valves or even pinching the  hoses off with clamps or needle nose pliers at start-up allows the vacuum to be controlled until the TB balance is close enough for the U tube to see full engine vacuum. (U tube is all I have used for many years now with no problems, very accurate)

 

On the handlebars-- The early 1100RS offered an adjustable handlebar set up. If your 1100RS doesn't have that then you might look on E-Bay for the adjustable bars (I see them for sale there occasionally) . Just do your homework as I haven't messed with those adjustable bars in years so can't tell you if the adjustable bars will work with all the upper triple trees or they need their own upper to work.   

 

 

 

 

 

[kbddbd]

Thank you all for your responses. This is great info and I will take it all to heart as I work through this thing. I know its an odd beast and year but I consider that a plus as it makes things more interesting for sure. Looks like I am going to need a clutch so I will be doing that as soon as I can get parts together. I will do all the tune up, hall effect sensor and final drive stuff while its apart. 

 

I am not sure if there is some special weird clutch adjustment thing. I have adjusted it and it seems like any other clutch as far as I can tell, if its a regular old clutch - its definitely going. When you do a clutch, I am assuming engine rear main, trans input shaft and other seals like that are a good idea as well? Doesnt look like too bad of a job really. Gonna put it on the table maybe this weekend and give it a go

[Jim Moore]

The key to the clutch adjustment is that you want 7 mm of play, as shown.

 

 

[AndyS]

Hi kbddbd. Where are you based?

 

 

[AndyS]

4 minutes ago, Jim Moore said:

The key to the clutch adjustment is that you want 7 mm of play, as shown.

 

Hi Jim, don't you have to loosen the handlebar end and set up the clutch arm end first?

[dirtrider]

46 minutes ago, kbddbd said:

Thank you all for your responses. This is great info and I will take it all to heart as I work through this thing. I know its an odd beast and year but I consider that a plus as it makes things more interesting for sure. Looks like I am going to need a clutch so I will be doing that as soon as I can get parts together. I will do all the tune up, hall effect sensor and final drive stuff while its apart. 

 

I am not sure if there is some special weird clutch adjustment thing. I have adjusted it and it seems like any other clutch as far as I can tell, if its a regular old clutch - its definitely going. When you do a clutch, I am assuming engine rear main, trans input shaft and other seals like that are a good idea as well? Doesnt look like too bad of a job really. Gonna put it on the table maybe this weekend and give it a go

Afternoon  kbddbd

 

When you say clutch is going, is it slipping or not releasing?

 

On the clutch parts, you might wait until you get it apart as you might find surprises once in there. On the early 1100 bikes the clutch is different so later parts won't always work with the early pressure plate or housing. Again, a lot of research & understanding is required on the early 1100RS clutch, some were already updated so you need to know what you have now & what you are working with (or just replace everything with all matching parts)

 

Be very careful on the rear main seal(s) replacement as that isn't as straight forward as it seems. If not done correctly you can end up with a massive oil leak. There are 2 seals & the crankcase vents between them. Your early 1100RS has a strange crankcase venting system so that makes it even or important to research & FULLY understand the rear main seal install process. 

[Jim Moore]

1 hour ago, AndyS said:

 

Hi Jim, don't you have to loosen the handlebar end and set up the clutch arm end first?

Yes and no. My theory has always been that the 7 mm measurement was the important one. You keep it at  7 mm by making adjustments with the knurled adjuster. Eventually you start to run out of room at the knurled adjuster so you have to start again from the back of the transmission. 

[kbddbd]

I am located in Southwest New Mexico  -  The clutch is slipping under load. Its not really clear to me how clutch adjustment would fix or cause that unless of course there was no play in the clutch. I will read up and go through the exact procedures to adjust it properly first as I would rather ride it a bit now, but am frankly welcoming the opportunity to go through things, get some zen time getting to know the bike, and clean up all the little stuff i know I will find while I am in there. I will probably do as dirtrider says and take it apart first so I can carefully inspect and  measure things to get clear on the right parts. I will also make sure I research the main seal install and verify proper venting of the crankcase. I should probably do that anyways.

 

I have to say BMW folks are a lot nicer to work with on forums and very helpful. I can appreciate that and thank you all for your input. 

[Jim Moore]

If you have the 7 mm gap and your clutch is slipping then , yeah, you have some sort of problem. None of them are easy fixes unfortunately, but we can get you through them.

[dirtrider]

55 minutes ago, kbddbd said:

I am located in Southwest New Mexico  -  The clutch is slipping under load. Its not really clear to me how clutch adjustment would fix or cause that unless of course there was no play in the clutch. I will read up and go through the exact procedures to adjust it properly first as I would rather ride it a bit now, but am frankly welcoming the opportunity to go through things, get some zen time getting to know the bike, and clean up all the little stuff i know I will find while I am in there. I will probably do as dirtrider says and take it apart first so I can carefully inspect and  measure things to get clear on the right parts. I will also make sure I research the main seal install and verify proper venting of the crankcase. I should probably do that anyways.

 

I have to say BMW folks are a lot nicer to work with on forums and very helpful. I can appreciate that and thank you all for your input. 

Afternoon  kbddbd

 

Reach in behind the transmission & grab hold of the clutch release lever (if that has some slack or movement) then your clutch slippage is definitely internal to the clutch. 

 

Look at the trans to engine mating area under the motorcycle, if you see signs of oil then you might have a leaking or seeping rear main seal or leaking front trans input shaft seal. That can oil up the clutch.

 

If you find signs of oil seeping then you can try removing the starter, using a zip tie to tie the clutch lever to the handlebar grip, then spraying the dickens out of the clutch area with brake-clean (while spinning the clutch disk using the rear wheel with trans in gear) 

 

This won't fix the leak or seep but can sometimes give you some pretty good riding miles until it oils up again (at least give you some riding time to  further evaluate that motorcycle before disassembly)

[kbddbd]

I already tried the lever and it does have slack - Thats why I didnt understand the special adjustment that I keep hearing about. It seemed like a pretty normal clutch to me

 

I will check for that leakage - thats a great trick if its fluid. Thanks for the tip 

 

[Still CAL]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:12 PM, kbddbd said:

...I am located in Southwest New Mexico...

I am in Cloudcroft, Otero County, east side of White Sands and Alamogordo. PM if I can help.

[kbddbd]

So - Thank you again for all the responses. I am now into the bike as far as I am going to go. Am collecting parts and sorting through cleanup and prep for reassembly. Its incredible and beautiful how different this design is than all other bikes I have worked with. Its a very simple design. This is my first time so I have a few questions. 

 

Final drive - When I pulled it apart, The needle bearings on the pivot bearings were in bad shape. I am thinking of going with the grease-able bushing kit from euro moto? Sounds good on the surface.Not sure how hard it is to get those races changed over. Also - Nothing was leaking at the bottom of the boot so the pinion seal looked dry until I moved it around on the bench and it started leaking - is that normal? 

 

Clutch pack - Late vs early clutch? How do I know which one I have? Is there something I can measure to determine this? Also - do spring plates wear out? I know it was slipping because the disc was down to the rivets and the clutch worked fine other than slipping so I am thinking all I need is the clutch disc. I cant quite seem to get it in my mind how that clutch pack works - or how to determine this. 

 

Kick stand switch? - I am not sure what the switch in the pic is. I think its a kickstand switch but its so mangled I cant tell and I don't have anything to compare it to. Anyone care to guess?

 

Fuel line stuff- Sounds like a quick disconnect kit would be a good idea? Does anyone make one? Also - want to do the fuel filter but want it clean. Does anyone make a kit with pinch clamps and submersible hose?
 

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon kbddbd

 

 Final drive - When I pulled it apart, The needle bearings on the pivot bearings were in bad shape. I am thinking of going with the grease-able bushing kit from euro moto? Sounds good on the surface. Not sure how hard it is to get those races changed over. -- Personally I'm not a big fan of the bushing kits but some do seem to make them work. 

 

Also - Nothing was leaking at the bottom of the boot so the pinion seal looked dry until I moved it around on the bench and it started leaking - is that normal? -- No, not normal. Not sure what you have going on there but make sure it isn't fluid leaking from the vent then running down & looking like the pinion seal.  

 

Clutch pack - Late vs early clutch? How do I know which one I have? Is there something I can measure to determine this?-- Not That I know of (unless you can find part numbers on the clutch parts). There are differences but without having both side by side it will be difficult to tell. 

 

Also - do spring plates wear out? -- They can wear where the push rod sits in the seat as well as losing spring tension due to heat of a slipping clutch.

 

I know it was slipping because the disc was down to the rivets and the clutch worked fine other than slipping so I am thinking all I need is the clutch disc. I cant quite seem to get it in my mind how that clutch pack works - or how to determine this. -- Think of it as a backwards automobile cutch. The clutch disk get pinched between the rear housing face & the pressure plate. When you squeeze the clutch lever it pushes on the clutch push rod  that then pushes on the spring center moving it forward, that then allows the  pressure plate to move forward & take clamping pressure off the disk & allow the disk to move slightly away  from the rear clutch housing face. (just a backwards operating auto clutch)  

 

Kick stand switch? - I am not sure what the switch in the pic is. I think its a kickstand switch but its so mangled I cant tell and I don't have anything to compare it to. Anyone care to guess?-- Get us a clearer picture of that switch or give us the wire colors including the wire stripe color going to that switch.

 

Fuel line stuff- Sounds like a quick disconnect kit would be a good idea? Does anyone make one? -- Try Beemer Boneyard.

 

Also - want to do the fuel filter but want it clean. Does anyone make a kit with pinch clamps and submersible hose?-- No pinch clamps on that high pressure fuel system. Try Beemer Boneyard for filter. They used to have a  convoluted hose to replace the U hose (some have made those work). Personally I just use the OEM BMW expensive U hose as I know that works & stays on the fittings.
 

[kbddbd]

Thank you for the response dirtrider - that helped a lot in my parts decisions and next steps. 

 

- I decided to try the bushing kit. I will be watching that thing closely - I don't have high expectations but if I keep the maintenance up........... will report back.

- it was the vent, not the pinion seal in the final drive. Its kind of clumsy to move around and hold upright so I made a jig for it that works really well. 

- I am just gonna fool with the kickstand switch later as its easy to get to and I have verified thats what it is

- Bought the disconnect kit, fuel lines, filter etc from beemerboneyard - will clean all that up as part of this

 

But the clutch...... First of all, for some reason, I still cant get the operation of this thing clear in my head. Maybe its old age? Dementia? Its pretty simple but backwards gets me. I think I have the early stuff as the clutch rod has no felt and I read that was the case in the early trans.

 

I used the old clutch pack. Compared the spring to a fairly new one. Not far off. All I did was replace the friction disc and bolts. When I torque the clutch pack to the flywheel, it compresses the spring so far in that once the trans is in, it doesn't engage until way late in the levers action, like the push rod is too short? This is not right and I am not sure why. First, with the old disc, it was just worn down but I was able to adjust the clutch and feel it engage. The spring plate center hole thingy doesn't look worn down. I can only think of a couple things.

 

1) the spring plate, cover are all worn out? - I cant find measuring specs for these parts anywhere

2) I am putting something together wrong? Not seating something properly?

 

Has anyone run across this before? - I am a beemer bike NUB but have been working on german things a long time - Maybe I just need to think in German?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by kbddbd
forgot a t

[dirtrider]

Afternoon  kbddbd 

 

 

- it was the vent, not the pinion seal in the final drive. Its kind of clumsy to move around and hold upright so I made a jig for it that works really well. --- That is good news as the pinion seal is pain to replace.

 

- I am just gonna fool with the kickstand switch later as its easy to get to and I have verified that's what it is-- More good news 

 

But the clutch...... First of all, for some reason, I still cant get the operation of this thing clear in my head. Maybe its old age? Dementia? Its pretty simple but backwards gets me. I think I have the early stuff as the clutch rod has no felt and I read that was the case in the early trans.-- You have the early push rod but who knows on the clutch parts as there is no way to determine if the clutch was ever replaced (even under warranty as BMW replaced a number of clutches due to loose clutch disk rattling)

 

I used the old clutch pack. Compared the spring to a fairly new one. Not far off.-- (Then that is probably OK)

 

All I did was replace the friction disc and bolts. When I torque the clutch pack to the flywheel, it compresses the spring so far in that once the trans is in, it doesn't engage until way late in the levers action, like the push rod is too short? This is not right and I am not sure why.-- This is something to understand before fully buttoning it up. As I mentioned above there was mandatory clutch pack updated parts (I believe pressure plate) due to a clutch disk thickness differences on the replacement disk. If you have a disk that is a different thickness than the original was when new, that could explain your present problem (personally I don't fool around trying to replace only the disk on the old 1100 bikes as  it can turn into a big fur ball that takes lots or research & patience to figure out.   

I'm not saying for SURE what your issue is but an incorrect clutch disk thickness vs the original  pressure plate is a real possibility.

 

I see BMW is listing the pre late 1997 clutch disk again so depending on what disk you purchased you need to verify that you have the correct pressure plate for THAT clutch disk. 

 

First, with the old disc, it was just worn down but I was able to adjust the clutch and feel it engage. The spring plate center hole thingy doesn't look worn down. I can only think of a couple things.-- See line just above_____

 

1) the spring plate, cover are all worn out? - I cant find measuring specs for these parts anywhere-- There aren't any in the manuals & my service bulletins don't show the thickness of the updated parts.

 

2) I am putting something together wrong? Not seating something properly?-- Possibly but also REAL POSSIBILITY of a difference clutch disk thickness vs original pressure plate. (you for sure need the correct pressure plate to go with your new clutch disk)

 

Has anyone run across this before? -- YES, sometimes when I tried to mismatch original clutch parts with a new disk. Not saying for sure this is  your problem but you REALLY need to understand & verify that ALL your clutch parts are compatible with each other. 

 

When I get back into my shop later today I will look at my old paper format bulletins & assembly records to see if I can find anything that you can use to verify your parts.

 

On the clutch operation. Easy to understand--  That large diaphragm spring puts rearward  pressure on the pressure plate therefore clamping the disk between the pressure plate & the rear housing. When you activate the clutch lever it moves the push rod forward therefore moving the  diaphragm spring center forward & THAT releases the diaphragm spring pressure on the pressure plate allowing it to pull away from the clutch disk.

 

Added: Check your private messages on this site as I sent you some clutch info on the possibility of the new clutch disk  incompatibility  with the early (pre late 1997) clutch pressure plate. Or possibly the other way around if your early 1100 had the later (post late 1997) pressure plate installed & you are trying to install the early clutch disk.

 

[Red]

I'd keep an eye on the oil sight window.  Mine began to 'weep' at 84K and that is the sign of pending failure.  Others have similar tales.  Don't know how representative of the R1100 motors it really is.  Welcome to the marque and the forum!

[kbddbd]

OK - I think you are right. I checked the message and that makes sense. No need to lookup old specs, but I appreciate the offer. I think you are right on the money

 

I guess it looks like a new clutch pack altogether then. Probably should have done that anyways. I will mark it so I can remember what I did later if I have to pull it apart again.

 

I am thinking this is the kit I need. https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla25352ck.html or this one - closer to me for shipping https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/clutchkit876.htm

 

 

 

 

[kbddbd]

Update and new problem... still working out the bugs. Got clutch in, cleaned up the final drive, everything works well. Went for a couple short rides. Then I decided to get all the  rest of the maintenance caught up.

 

Goal was to do all the basics first, then sync the TB's.. I replaced plugs, set the valves, replaced the fuel filter and hoses, fresh oil and filter. Not sure where I went wrong but its running really bad. I messed something up while I was fooling with it. coughs and sputters. So I started troubleshooting and found a couple things I probably needed to fix anyways. 

 

-Compression test - 145 at both cylinders dry

-pulled fuel filter an pump back out and discovered the vent lines were cracked in the tank - replaced them both

-inspected an ohmed out the coil and plug wires

-Thought maybe I had the wrong plugs so swapped the old ones back - no change

-Pulled the injector on the left side only - pump runs up with ignition on and works NP, but nothing out of the injector

 

All that looks good but there's a couple things I am not sure about as I am a newbie to these bikes. 

 

Not sure about the motronic codes. I think I am V2.2 and one source is telling me that 1133 code is default and all is well, and the other is telling me that it means HES sensor on #2 is bad. which might make sense as the left side has nothing coming out of the injector? - is it possible the HES (which I was warned about) just choked? I can pull it off and bench test it 

 

The other thing is I might have got the fuel lines backwards? I marked everything and am reasonably sure I didn't get them backwards but that would certainly explain it if it would even run at all like that - not sure how to verify I got them right 

 

I know old wiring can be an issue - I did clean up a lot of wiring hanging with zip ties - maybe that?

 

I have been around german cars most of my life (but my first german bike), I know they are all quirky so I am not dismayed, I am actually grateful its a consistent problem and not intermittent and that I am getting it all covered before I do some long road trips.

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

36 minutes ago, kbddbd said:

Update and new problem... still working out the bugs.

 

Morning kbddbd

 

At what point in all this was it last running OK ???????

 

Did you install a new "U" shaped high pressure fuel hose inside the fuel tank ? If you didn't then you probably need to run a return fuel flow test. Those "U" hoses are prone to splitting or pin holes on the older 1100/1150 boxer bikes. 

[dirtrider]

Quote

-Pulled the injector on the left side only - pump runs up with ignition on and works NP, but nothing out of the injector

More__

 

Was the engine cranking (or running) when you checked to injector squirt?  Nothing will come out until engine cranking or running.

[dirtrider]

 

Not sure about the motronic codes. I think I am V2.2 and one source is telling me that 1133 code is default and all is well, and the other is telling me that it means HES sensor on #2 is bad. which might make sense as the left side has nothing coming out of the injector? - is it possible the HES (which I was warned about) just choked? I can pull it off and bench test it --- Possible but not likely if it starts & runs. HES fires & fuels both sides the same so if one side runs then the HES is probably OK. HES failure code is about useless on the 1100 Ma 2 bikes.

You really can't bench check for the common HES failure as the HES part doesn't fail (that is the part you can bench check). It is the HES  wire pigtail that fails so the insulation breaks down allowing wire cross-talk. You can cut the HES wire pigtail open & visually look at the wires but not much to check electrically.

 

The other thing is I might have got the fuel lines backwards? I marked everything and am reasonably sure I didn't get them backwards but that would certainly explain it if it would even run at all like that - not sure how to verify I got them right --Possible__ The fuel hoses Do Not Cross, so top hose is always on top & bottom hose is on bottom. A fuel return flow test will verify proper fuel flow at enough pressure & that hoses are on correctly.

 

I know old wiring can be an issue - I did clean up a lot of wiring hanging with zip ties - maybe that?-- Probably not if it runs.

 

First place to start looking is at the R/H throttle cable right where it enters the  cable adjuster at the throttle body. That cable has a habit of sitting on top of the adjuster rather than down in it.  (this needs to be verified before doing anything else). And/or recheck your TB balance again!

 

You wrote a lot of info in your last posting with some info we don't need to have but you really didn't tell us about the poor running. WHAT does it run like, does it idle OK, will it attain free-way speed, any popping out the exhaust, what tells you that it isn't running correctly???????????????????????? 

 

 

 

 

[Still CAL]

9 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

First place to start looking is at the R/H throttle cable right where it enters the  cable adjuster at the throttle body. That cable has a habit of sitting on top of the adjuster rather than down in it.  (this needs to be verified before doing anything else). And/or recheck your TB balance again!

 

You wrote a lot of info in your last posting with some we don't need to have but you really didn't tell us about the poor running. WHAT does it run like, does it idle OK, will it attain free-way speed, any popping out the exhaust, what tells you that it isn't running correctly???????????????????????? 

 

 

 

 

DR on top of it, as usual. I was typing when your reply posted.

[RogerC60]

kbddbd said he was doing "the basics" before syncing the throttle bodies, "the basics" including a valve adjustment. In my own experience, after adjusting the valves the bike runs poorly until I've also synced the throttle bodies. (R1150RT).

 

[kbddbd]

Wow - a lot of replies and places to look - thank you - I will do my best to reply to the questions between meetings to day......

 

- It was running OK when I put it on the bench - just OK, had to leave the chole on, etc... but was hitting on both cylinders

- I did not replace the u shared fuel hose but bought one - it looked to be in good shape when I swapped the filter/vent hoses - will replace just for good measure

 

- Yes - engine was cranking when looking for injector squirt - after pump ran up normally, also verified flow (but not pressure) adding a port for that tonight and will do pressure test

 

- Yes - I verified the cables were properly seated

 

- More specific about how it runs - its coughing and sputtering but will idle but barely, I have not tried to ride it. Sounds like its only running on one cylinder, maybe the right? I have to check the injector on the right still and verify spark. At one point when I ran it for a bit thinking it was just cold, the exhaust started to get real hot, like glowing (just a little) -. 

 

- I havent balanced or checked the TB's. I thought it had to be running to create vacuum. Can they be 1st balanced "cold"? or visually? electrically?

 

- The valve adjustment wasnt far off - I would consider it minor, certainly not enough to affect how it runs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon  kbddbd

 

It was running OK when I put it on the bench - just OK, had to leave the chole on, etc... but was hitting on both cylinders

 

- I did not replace the u shared fuel hose but bought one - it looked to be in good shape when I swapped the filter/vent hoses - will replace just for good measure-- Good idea just to eliminate that as the cause (they can look good but easy to miss a small pin hole or crack)

 

- Yes - engine was cranking when looking for injector squirt - after pump ran up normally, also verified flow (but not pressure) adding a port for that tonight and will do pressure test-- You need to verify the FLOW @ pressure as pressure alone isn't enough to tell much. You can have pressure but not enough flow to run it properly. Best way to do that is with a return line flow test--- If you have return fuel flow that means that you are making enough pressure as the flow it taken AFTER the 45 psi+ pressure regulator.  So you know you have at least 45+ psi  & still have a pencil sized return flow.

 

 

- Yes - I verified the cables were properly seated-- OK, that is eliminated. 

 

- More specific about how it runs - its coughing and sputtering but will idle but barely, I have not tried to ride it.

Sounds like its only running on one cylinder, maybe the right? -- Are both side front exhaust pipes getting to about the same temperature? 

 

I have to check the injector on the right still and verify spark. At one point when I ran it for a bit thinking it was just cold, the exhaust started to get real hot, like glowing (just a little) -. -- Normal for pipes to glow red when revving engine & sitting still.  

 

- I havent balanced or checked the TB's. I thought it had to be running to create vacuum. Can they be 1st balanced "cold"? or visually? electrically?-- Yes, well sort of, close enough that it should run OK. Have someone slowly open & close the throttle as you feel both side throttle body cable cams. Make sure that they pull off of the idle stops at the very same time, also make sure they hit the wide open stops at the same time.

 

- The valve adjustment wasnt far off - I would consider it minor, certainly not enough to affect how it runs. -- They would have to be WAY off to cause what you are seeing. 

[kbddbd]

Dirtrider, and everyone - thanks for the response. 

 

I will do the pressure and flow test after I replace the U hose tonight. I bought a tee to leave in the return side already but didnt put it in. I tried to do quick disconnects but theres not much room for them. They are coming off. I got a flex u hose from beemerboneyard already. I didnt think about checking the exhaust pipes for heat - thats a simple one that escaped me - will check that out too.  I did check the throttle bodies like you mentioned and know they come off the stop at the same time but didnt check full throttle - will do that too.

 

One thing I didnt mention is that I replaced the alternator belt.  That is in the proximity of the HES... reading abut the early wires being poor makes me want to at least inspect everything, but not until I understand whats happening right now. Most of the bike looks original - not sure if that was ever replaced.

 

What about the motronic code 1133?  Is that the default  "all is good " code? I am getting conflicting info on that point. Theres a video on youtube that shows how to pull codes and he states thats normal

 

[dirtrider]

27 minutes ago, kbddbd said:

Dirtrider, and everyone - thanks for the response. 

 

I will do the pressure and flow test after I replace the U hose tonight. I bought a tee to leave in the return side already but didnt put it in. I tried to do quick disconnects but theres not much room for them. They are coming off. I got a flex u hose from beemerboneyard already. I didnt think about checking the exhaust pipes for heat - thats a simple one that escaped me - will check that out too.  I did check the throttle bodies like you mentioned and know they come off the stop at the same time but didnt check full throttle - will do that too.

 

One thing I didnt mention is that I replaced the alternator belt.  That is in the proximity of the HES... reading abut the early wires being poor makes me want to at least inspect everything, but not until I understand whats happening right now. Most of the bike looks original - not sure if that was ever replaced.

 

What about the motronic code 1133?  Is that the default  "all is good " code? I am getting conflicting info on that point. Theres a video on youtube that shows how to pull codes and he states thats normal

 

Afternoon  kbddbd

 

That code 1133 is pretty normal & usually doesn't tell you much other then the HES was powered on with engine not running, or just cranking. Now NOT also getting an 1122 code might be telling you something or telling you nothing as usually when you get a 1133 you also get an 1122.

 

  

 

On installing a "Tee" in the return line-- That is a waste of time & effort as the return fitting inside the fuel tank is open & not restricted so most of the fuel will just by-pass the Tee & return to the tank anyhow. I suppose you could use a brake hose clamp-off-pliers  to clamp the return rubber hose off on the tank side of the Tee but that is hard on the fuel hose lining. 

[Still CAL]

PM sent to OP.

[kbddbd]

An update on my ongoing prep - Finally got time to work on it in the last 2 days. Was completely baffled by the rough running issue. The good thing is I got a serious education into the finer points of these bikes and have a nice little specialty tools collection for them. I am really enjoying the process. Checked compression, pulled motronic codes (none) verified correct fuel pressure and volume (right on) pulled HES and inspected it (was already replaced or is in really good condition)  - thanks for correcting me on the return line, I meant supply - Left it plumbed in for future testing.

 

None of that showed anything so I resorted to the "jiggle stuff around while its running" technique and found it - it turns out it was the cross TB cable not being seated properly in the saddle even though it looked and felt like it was. Many of you warned me about this but apparently a visual is not sufficient. A thorough cleaning and it runs perfectly. - I had no idea they were that picky but am now educated on it although I am still not entirely sure why such a little bit would make such a big difference.  I have plans to balance the TB's anyways and will clean, lube and inspect all the cables when I do that. 

 

Redid the fuel tank lines and found that the everything in the tank were very old and hardened . Replaced everything and cracked the fuel pump inlet - it was the original pump and probably needed to be replaced anyways. I also have a few miles on it in regards to the bushings versus bearing on the final drive. They seem to work fine and have not come loose or anything. Bike feels solid - I marked everything with paint marks to see if anything moved. I should have just left it stock but I dont think theres any real difference maybe in the long run? Another thing is I tried to install the quick disconnect kits for the fuel lines and just decided that theres not a lot of room on this bike for it. I am willing to sell them brand new cheap if someone wants them - only mounted once :-)

 

Thanks for all the feedback and advice many of you have given me - Its sincerely appreciated - Gonna go for a nice long ride tonight

 

 

[Still CAL]

1 hour ago, kbddbd said:

None of that showed anything so I resorted to the "jiggle stuff around while its running" technique and found it - it turns out it was the cross TB cable not being seated properly in the saddle even though it looked and felt like it was. Many of you warned me about this but apparently a visual is not sufficient. A thorough cleaning and it runs perfectly. - I had no idea they were that picky but am now educated on it although I am still not entirely sure why such a little bit would make such a big difference. 

Here's a quote from dirtrider posted in a similar thread: 

"You can NOT just open the R/H throttle body alone as it doesn't have a TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) so ALL it gets is air when you open it, with no fuel added.

 

You can open the L/H side alone, or both together, but NOT the R/H side alone."

All air and no gas makes Boxer a sputtering boy.    

[kbddbd]

That makes sense now - thanks

 

Thats also what was happening - coughing and sputtering with no fuel coming out of the injector

 

[kbddbd]

Ongoing getting this thing reliable and safe. So far, so good. Had an encounter with one of the brake lines put on incorrectly. I noticed it and moved it and then when I turned to the right, the front brakes would lock. The front brake hose from the master was tweaked to the side and would kink, then not unlock. It worked fine before I fixed it for some un-explainable reason. The brakes lines were old so I bought a spiegel kit (recommended by beemer boneyard guy) and replaced all the lines with the steel braided kit and did a though bleeding (this is an ABS bike) and the brakes came alive. I had already replaced the rear pads and will now do the fronts. Also couldn't find a replacement seal for the rear brake reservoir so found out that an old Ford truck M/C cap fit perfectly with a little trimming - 8 bucks at Autozone.

 

I love how the bike responds to the attention its getting. I have been loving on it and it just keeps running better and better - getting good karma. Having never owned any BMW's its very interesting that its such a completely different design in so many ways - Para and tele lever, FI, dry clutch, etc.. These things are all new to me but are typically german logical and fairly easy to understand and repair - so far. Also - I am very experienced with german air cooled engines and this is definitely the height of air cooled engine design.

 

I have read about, and its probably typical to all on the forum where some newbie (me in this case) buys an old bike and ends up sinking a lot of money into the bike to get it right, but I knew that going in. I have restored many other machines this way and was looking at it from the perspective of - is it all there, Clear title, can I find parts, is there forum support, etc..? In my case, I wouldn't have trusted it anyways until I checked it all out. I didn't pay that much for the bike anyway - I have about 3K not including my labor - that's maybe what its worth now...

 

So now working on the little buggy things - Still haven't figure out how to move the bars back, I have been seeing a cam chain kit upgrade but cant seem to figure out how I would know if mine has been upgraded or not already. How would I do that? is it easy to pull and inspect or is there some kind of funky ratcheting mechanism that requires a special tool?. Does it make that much of a difference if the bike is in good service all the time? Also - The oil level has me a bit stumped as it keeps moving around in the sight glass for no apparent reason. - Anyone care to offer next steps?

 

  

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, kbddbd said:

I have been seeing a cam chain kit upgrade but cant seem to figure out how I would know if mine has been upgraded or not already. How would I do that? is it easy to pull and inspect or is there some kind of funky ratcheting mechanism that requires a special tool?. Does it make that much of a difference if the bike is in good service all the time? Also - The oil level has me a bit stumped as it keeps moving around in the sight glass for no apparent reason. - Anyone care to offer next steps?

 

  

Morning kbddbd

 

On the L/H cam chain tensioner difference?-- One of the easier ways to tell the new tensioner from the old (original) is to look a the top nut on the tensioner (or put a wrench on it).

 

Th original will have a 17mm hex on top & the new (improved) tensioner will have a 15mm hex on top.

 

As for oil level checks--  to get a consistent & accurate oil level check the engine MUST be hot, that is "RIDING for while hot" not just running in place.

 

Then, you have your choice of  the next move -- correct way it just put HOT engine motorcycle  on center stand, allow to sit for about 5 minutes then look at sight glass (this gives you the most accurate oil level) 

 

But a lot of riders add an extra step & that is to put HOT engine motorcycle  on side-stand first for about 5 minutes,  THEN put on center stand (give it a few minutes on center stand), then look at sight glass (this way probably gives you the most consistent oil level reading but will show very slightly high as using the side stand first allows a little more drain-back from the tilted oil cooler).