Parasitic drain

[John Ranalletta]

Last weekend, the 15 GSW battery was dead.  I replaced it and today, the new battery is dead.

 

Any suggestions based on experience with same appreciated.  Will remove GPS and disconnect fuse block.  

 

It has CANopener and lights.  This is the first/only time this has occurred in 3 years; so, looking for something changed to cause this.

[dirtrider]

12 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

Last weekend, the 15 GSW battery was dead.  I replaced it and today, the new battery is dead.

 

Any suggestions based on experience with same appreciated.  Will remove GPS and disconnect fuse block.  

 

It has CANopener and lights.  This is the first/only time this has occurred in 3 years; so, looking for something changed to cause this.

 

Afternoon John 

 

Do a patristic draw check on that motorcycle, don't disconnect the battery without putting your meter across the cable to battery post first  (no power down) between  turning the key off & checking the patristic draw. (you have to be creative on hooking your meter up  BEFORE the battery disconnect)

 

If you find a significant draw then test again with the top box unplugged, GPS disconnected, add-on  fuse box disconnected, anything else that was  added disconnected.

 

More than likely something isn't shutting down at key-off, or your  can-bus circuits are not shutting down. 

 

If you don't find anything by disconnecting the above mentioned things then do another draw test with the voltage regulator disconnected.  

 

  

[John Ranalletta]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon John 

 

Do a patristic draw check on that motorcycle, don't disconnect the battery without putting your meter across the cable to battery post first  (no power down) between  turning the key off & checking the patristic draw. (you have to be creative on hooking your meter up  BEFORE the battery disconnect)

 

If you find a significant draw then test again with the top box unplugged, GPS disconnected, add-on  fuse box disconnected, anything else that was  added disconnected.

 

More than likely something isn't shutting down at key-off, or your  can-bus circuits are not shutting down. 

 

If you don't find anything by disconnecting the above mentioned things then do another draw test with the voltage regulator disconnected.  

 

  

 

 

Thanks, DR.  I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage in that my meter is in storage.  I've disconnected add ons and am charging now.  Will fetch my meter later today.

 

Not jumping to  conclusion but wonder if 12v relays like the one controlling voltage to fuse block have a history of sticking... edit: relay tested out ok.  Will wait for battery to recharge.

[TEWKS]

I told mine to get a job and move out! 

[Bobup]

If you can, a more effective way to check key off draws is with a DVOM set to voltage. Use the probes across each fuse, touching the top on each exposed spade top. The fuses that show a voltage drop are the ones that have current running through them. First time I was taught this method was in early 2000s by Mercedes Benz.

[John Ranalletta]

Thanks.  I'm not very handy at this electrical stuff, but I was reattaching the neg lead including leads from the fuse block and the clearwater lights WITH IGNITION OFF and the lights flickered.  They stayed lit as long as I held the lead to the battery post.  I don't think that's supposed to happen.  Leads me to think the relay to which the CW 3 CANopener is faulty or the CANopener itself.  I'll swap out the relay later today.

 

Connecting the meter between the neg lead and ground showed drain of .3 mva with all accessories disconnected of course.

 

Any counsel is welcomed.

[dirtrider]

24 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

Thanks.  I'm not very handy at this electrical stuff, but I was reattaching the neg lead including leads from the fuse block and the clearwater lights WITH IGNITION OFF and the lights flickered.  They stayed lit as long as I held the lead to the battery post.  I don't think that's supposed to happen.  Leads me to think the relay to which the CW 3 CANopener is faulty or the CANopener itself.  I'll swap out the relay later today.

 

Connecting the meter between the neg lead and ground showed drain of .3 mva with all accessories disconnected of course.

 

Any counsel is welcomed.

Afternoon John

 

Somewhere between 2.9 & 4.0 mA is probably in the ball park as far as key-off patristic drain goes, but this is after all  the can circuits shut down.

 

You have to be careful in connecting between the  battery neg post & the negative cable as you can't FIRST break the connection THEN hook your meter up as that can cause a can circuit reset. You need to hook the meter up BEFORE disconnecting the cable from the battery negative post then do the cable disconnect  with the meter still hooked up (easier said than done). You also have to wait for the can circuits to shut down before measuring for system parasitic draw. 

 

You also have to be careful in using voltage for a  parasitic draw test  as some circuits do have, & will show, a normal  small drain even with the key off,  plus a number of the keep-alive circuits don't even go through a fuse.   

 

You need to go by total mA draw AFTER  can circuit shut down. If over 4mA then you have something to look for that is draining your battery. 

 

I have homemade knife switch that has an amp meter tap on each  side of the knife switch, that allows me to have full high amp battery hook up, than when I open the knife switch it defaults to running the load through the amp meter without a break in the circuit. Most small hand held amp meters only have a 10 amp capacity before they blow an internal fuse or go OL so you usually can't run full accessory or key-on load through the meter. 

 

 

[John Ranalletta]

19 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon John

 

Somewhere between 2.9 & 4.0 mA is probably in the ball park as far as key-off patristic drain goes, but this is after all  the can circuits shut down.

 

You have to be careful in connecting between the  battery neg post & the negative cable as you can't FIRST break the connection THEN hook your meter up as that can cause a can circuit reset. You need to hook the meter up BEFORE disconnecting the cable from the battery negative post then do the cable disconnect  with the meter still hooked up (easier said than done). You also have to wait for the can circuits to shut down before measuring for system parasitic draw. 

 

You also have to be careful in using voltage for a  parasitic draw test  as some circuits do have, & will show, a normal  small drain even with the key off,  plus a number of the keep-alive circuits don't even go through a fuse.   

 

You need to go by total mA draw AFTER  can circuit shut down. If over 4mA then you have something to look for that is draining your battery. 

 

I have homemade knife switch that has an amp meter tap on each  side of the knife switch, that allows me to have full high amp battery hook up, than when I open the knife switch it defaults to running the load through the amp meter without a break in the circuit. Most small hand held amp meters only have a 10 amp capacity before they blow an internal fuse or go OL so you usually can't run full accessory or key-on load through the meter. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, again, DR.

 

What do you make of the last note I added?  I was reattaching the neg cable and Clearwater light lead to the battery.  The lights turned on when the lead touched the neg battery post and stay on as long as I held the terminal to the battery's neg post.  Confused.

 

I think I need to reattach the leads, turn on the ignition and try to switch the Clearwaters on/off.  

[dirtrider]

1 minute ago, John Ranalletta said:

 

 

Thanks, again, DR.

 

What do you make of the last note I added?  I was reattaching the neg cable to the battery with a charging lead and the Clearwater light lead.  Without the neg lead connected to the battery, the lights switch on when the light lead touches the neg battery post.  I'm going to reattach as I found it, start the bike and then switch off the Clearwater lights.

 

Afternoon John

 

That is why you never want to do a full battery disconnect for testing, you always want to have something in the circuit to carry power (like your amp meter).  On these  computer controlled modern marvel vehicles they can sometimes do strange things with a battery disconnect then re-connect.  You hook the meter up FIRST--  THEN you do your cable disconnect-- as that  transfers the load through the meter without a break in service. 

[John Ranalletta]

46 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon John

 

That is why you never want to do a full battery disconnect for testing, you always want to have something in the circuit to carry power (like your amp meter).  On these  computer controlled modern marvel vehicles they can sometimes do strange things with a battery disconnect then re-connect.  You hook the meter up FIRST--  THEN you do your cable disconnect-- as that  transfers the load through the meter without a break in service. 

 

Ok.  The light issue went away.  Clearwater tech support said the lights would go out once neg cable and the light lead were connected.  They did.

 

Started and stopped the bike, turning off ignition.

Attached meter leads to neg battery cable while still attached to battery post and ground

Loosened and lifted the neg battery cable while meter lead attached

This is the meter reading:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

26 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

 

Ok.  The light issue went away.  Clearwater tech support said the lights would go out once neg cable and the light lead were connected.  They did.

 

Started and stopped the bike, turning off ignition.

Attached meter leads to neg battery cable while still attached to battery post and ground

Loosened and lifted the neg battery cable while meter lead attached

This is the meter reading:

 

 

Evening John

 

OK, at the moment you aren't drawing enough to run your battery down in under a month.  

 

So either your problem is intermittent or you have a different issue.

 

You might want to see if your alternator is charging, switch your meter to the DC voltage scale then see what voltage  your alternator is charging at.  At about 2000 rpm's you probably want to see a little over 14 volts. 

 

What type of GPS are you running? Some of the older Garmin GPS units will come back on by themselves if powered from a circuit that shuts down a short time after the key is turned off.  

 

I will be gone the remainder of the night. 

[John Ranalletta]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Evening John

 

OK, at the moment you aren't drawing enough to run your battery down in under a month.  

 

So either your problem is intermittent or you have a different issue.

 

You might want to see if your alternator is charging, switch your meter to the DC voltage scale then see what voltage  your alternator is charging at.  At about 2000 rpm's you probably want to see a little over 14 volts. 

 

What type of GPS are you running? Some of the older Garmin GPS units will come back on by themselves if powered from a circuit that shuts down a short time after the key is turned off.  

 

I will be gone the remainder of the night. 

 

Thanks, DR.  Will do.

[John Ranalletta]

Voltage w/ engine running 14+v

 

 

[dirtrider]

1 minute ago, John Ranalletta said:

Voltage w/ engine running 14+v

 

 

Afternoon John

 

That is good news.

 

Well, something ran your battery down so it is either gone or you just haven't caught it in your patristic draw testing. 

 

What are you running for a GPS? 

 

You might try doing another patristic draw test after riding the motorcycle.  After riding, turn the key off, then let is sit for about 1/2 hour then hook your meter up, THEN disconnect the battery.  (do the test on the first battery disconnect after riding)

[John Ranalletta]

Happened again today.  Went to load the gs on trailer for test run and it's dead.  Confounding.  Checked drain per DR's counsel and showed no issues.  Last ridden two weeks ago.  Can't figure it out.  The tank bag was still hooked up but nothing is connected to that lead.  I had taken the Nav V off a week ago to transfer FART routes but did not start the bike or turn on the ignition; and, the Nav V was turned off.

[dirtrider]

50 minutes ago, John Ranalletta said:

Happened again today.  Went to load the gs on trailer for test run and it's dead.  Confounding.  Checked drain per DR's counsel and showed no issues.  Last ridden two weeks ago.  Can't figure it out.  The tank bag was still hooked up but nothing is connected to that lead.  I had taken the Nav V off a week ago to transfer FART routes but did not start the bike or turn on the ignition; and, the Nav V was turned off.

Evening John

 

What is your tank bag powered for? Is it just a 12v source or is there a USB converter in the tank bag?

 

It might be time to have your battery load tested, then if OK leave it disconnected for a week or two to see if it stays charged.  (if battery stays up then your problem is motorcycle related). 

[John Ranalletta]

49 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Evening John

 

What is your tank bag powered for? Is it just a 12v source or is there a USB converter in the tank bag?

 

It might be time to have your battery load tested, then if OK leave it disconnected for a week or two to see if it stays charged.  (if battery stays up then your problem is motorcycle related). 

Thanks, DR.  You may have hit pay dirt.  There is a USB adapter plugged into a cigarette lighter socket.  I just turned on the ignition and the LED on the USB lit up.  I turned the ignition off about 10 minutes ago and the USB LED is still lit.  I'll check it again in a few hours.  It's on a tender presently.

 

[John Ranalletta]

12 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening John

 

What is your tank bag powered for? Is it just a 12v source or is there a USB converter in the tank bag?

 

It might be time to have your battery load tested, then if OK leave it disconnected for a week or two to see if it stays charged.  (if battery stays up then your problem is motorcycle related). 

Thanks, DR.  You may have hit pay dirt.  There is a USB adapter plugged into a cigarette lighter socket.  I just turned on the ignition and the LED on the USB lit up.  I turned the ignition off about 10 minutes ago and the USB LED is still lit.  I'll check it again in a few hours.  It's on a tender presently.

 

Update: 11 hours later, USB LED still lit.

 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, John Ranalletta said:

Thanks, DR.  You may have hit pay dirt.  There is a USB adapter plugged into a cigarette lighter socket.  I just turned on the ignition and the LED on the USB lit up.  I turned the ignition off about 10 minutes ago and the USB LED is still lit.  I'll check it again in a few hours.  It's on a tender presently.

 

Update: 11 hours later, USB LED still lit.

 

Morning John

 

Now you have to figure out how much that USB adapter draws,  some have a pretty decent parasitic drain even with no-load on them & others are designed to be less of a no-load burden.

 

Or just remove it then see if your battery stays up. 

[pbsrides]

On 9/7/2020 at 8:20 AM, dirtrider said:

Morning John

 

Now you have to figure out how much that USB adapter draws,  some have a pretty decent parasitic drain even with no-load on them & others are designed to be less of a no-load burden.

 

Or just remove it then see if your battery stays up. 

I had a very similar situation on my '14 RT. 3rd party USB adapter was no problem when wired to a PDM60, but when I moved the PDM60 to another bike and wired the third party to the DIN receptacle on the dash of the RT, battery went dead in hours. My 3rd party USB had no led indicator to warn me it was still on. When 3rd party USB was removed, all was well. I also heard an intermittent click coming from the RT as it sat in the garage discharging. Remove the USB adapter and I bet you'll be fine.