Roundabouts roundabout here

[John Ranalletta]

[Hosstage]

I consider them as chicanes, to be gotten through as quickly and efficiently as possible. I figure if I don't get through with the perfect line (setting up turn 3 before even starting turn 1) there is the possibility I could get passed on exit. And I hate getting passed!

[John Ranalletta]

4 hours ago, Hosstage said:

I consider them as chicanes, to be gotten through as quickly and efficiently as possible. I figure if I don't get through with the perfect line (setting up turn 3 before even starting turn 1) there is the possibility I could get passed on exit. And I hate getting passed!

 

You'd get plenty of practice here where I live. 

 

[RogerC60]

They're showing up here in northeast Ohio more and more. I like them because they do allow traffic to flow more smoothly. But they definitely deserve one's utmost attention because there are still lots of drivers who apparently don't understand how they work. For me the prime goal is to just get through the thing upright, never mind the perfect line.

 

[BamaJohn]

I've come to appreciate the efficiency of roundabouts, but it wasn't always that way.  In 2002 two buddies joined me in a walkabout in the UK and we hired a car for the 2 week trip.  Once, we entered a roundabout, driving on the wrong side of the road, and only partially sure of which exit to take, and we had to make 3 circles before we could get in the correct exit lane!  GPS does wonders to eliminate the uncertainty these days!  

[John Ranalletta]

2 hours ago, BamaJohn said:

I've come to appreciate the efficiency of roundabouts, but it wasn't always that way.  In 2002 two buddies joined me in a walkabout in the UK and we hired a car for the 2 week trip.  Once, we entered a roundabout, driving on the wrong side of the road, and only partially sure of which exit to take, and we had to make 3 circles before we could get in the correct exit lane!  GPS does wonders to eliminate the uncertainty these days!  

 

I've heard most accidents in England happen to American drivers at the first roundabout leaving the car rental office. 

[roadscholar]

On 5/17/2020 at 5:00 PM, Hosstage said:

I consider them as chicanes, to be gotten through as quickly and efficiently as possible. I figure if I don't get through with the perfect line (setting up turn 3 before even starting turn 1) there is the possibility I could get passed on exit. And I hate getting passed!

 

Same here, a big development put in a couple on what used to be a fast, flowing scenic road along the river we've used forever. At first I hated them but soon realized they were a bonus to what was already a nice road, a couple downshifts, go in wide, crossover tight, hit the apex and power out, what's not to like. In a sportscar sometimes I put two wheels up on the curb like you would on a racetrack to straighten it out some. If it's late at night and there's no traffic I like to do a lap or two and pretend it's a skidpad, it's Florida you need to be creative. And every once in awhile in the Jeep I just go straight across the island : )  

 

I remember in the early 70's walking out of the Rome airport at morning rush hour. I’d never seen a roundabout, Fiat 500's were flying through it five-wide, the outside two were up on the curb and sidewalk not giving an inch, I took a few steps back was thinking WTH.  

[BamaJohn]

6 hours ago, BamaJohn said:

I've come to appreciate the efficiency of roundabouts, but it wasn't always that way.  In 2002 two buddies joined me in a walkabout in the UK and we hired a car for the 2 week trip.  Once, we entered a roundabout, driving on the wrong side of the road, and only partially sure of which exit to take, and we had to make 3 circles before we could get in the correct exit lane!  GPS does wonders to eliminate the uncertainty these days!  

Reread my post and to clarify:  We were driving on the correct side at all times.   

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

For years there was a miserable 4-way stop near my house that had an offset to it which made through-put really slow.  A few years ago a developer built up some land near it, and the city made them install a roundabout; it's been great ever since.

 

Sometimes they suck though.  No matter how many times I go through this pair of roundabouts, I regularly screw up and take the wrong exit:

 

[Selden]

Roundabouts/traffic circles seem to be the new rage with traffic engineers. There is even one going in at Stone Pile Gap (aka the Rock Pile) on the road from Dahlonega to Suches. It looks like maybe they will finish it before the 4th of July.

 

A few years ago it was the diverging diamond interchange for controlled access highways.

[Bill_Walker]

35 minutes ago, Selden said:

Roundabouts/traffic circles seem to be the new rage with traffic engineers.

Maybe with American traffic engineers.  They've been using them in Europe and the UK for many decades.  Heck, I've even encountered roundabouts with traffic lights, which seems really weird.  I think it addresses a basic problem: they work great as long as traffic isn't too heavy.  With heavy traffic on one route, traffic trying to enter from another route can be blocked out.

 

One reason for their rising popularity is that they help conserve energy.  Since most traffic, most of the time, never has to come to a complete stop, you don't have to waste that energy getting the car moving again.  Of course, you still have some slowing and speeding up again.

Another is that they're safer.  No head-on traffic, a more limited number of possible maneuvers, and everyone has to slow down.

[Bill_Walker]

Just like with freeway on-ramps, watch out for oil/gas/diesel on the pavement, though.

[Rougarou]

Meh, they're installing them around central NC.  I like them but many aren't accustomed to them as I've seen some drive right over the center of the circle (prior to larger plants being installed) and even after the plants installed, I've seen them cut the curve and go over the apron around the center. 

 

Some of the circles are actually too small, such as below:

 

Because these big trucks:

And these big trucks:

 

don't quite make the circle.

 

Also, my little town is supposed to get one right here:

 

[John Ranalletta]

In our county, they realized the ROW laws governing roundabouts had to change.  Semi tractor trailer combos have the ROW on all travel lanes once in the circle.  Some of the RABs are so tight, the trailers impinged on the inside lane; thus, if an auto is in the center ring and a semi is in the outer, the auto needs to brake for the semi to clear.  If hit by the semi, it the auto driver's fault.

 

Interesting, when in AZ in Feb we drove from Cottonwood to Camp Verde on 260.  They have installed RABs every mile or so it seemed.  I presume to support future development.

[Red]

John,

I believe you are correct.  "I've heard most accidents in England happen to American drivers at the first roundabout leaving the car rental office."  Went to Scotland in fall of 2018 and didn't have the guts to attempt driving in the populated lowlands.  So, rented a car at the northern most point I could at the least populated town with rental, Inverness.  Wanted to go north to the Isle of Skye.  So right out of the box your instincts are all screwed up with the drive on the left and then you are confronted with a two lane round about.  Holly shit.  I got many a honk.  Never made contact.  Never made it to Skye.  We saw some great country but we were just bouncing around with the path of least resistance until we got back to the rental outfit.  Still don't know what the protocol is in those double lane jobs is.  Won't do that again.  The next day we hired a car & driver to do the whisky trail.  Now that's the way to go.

 

[LittleBriar]

22 hours ago, John Ranalletta said:

 

I've heard most accidents in England happen to American drivers at the first roundabout leaving the car rental office. 

I lived in the UK for several years. I had a friend who came to visit and I had a driver go pick him up from Gatwick. After the driver left the main city, my buddy wanted to drive and he talked the guy into letting him drive. At his first roundabout, he turned right, smack into oncoming traffic. He wound up over the curb and into the center. The chauffeur wasn't amused.

I also agree that they just don't work well in heavy traffic. I have lots of memories of long traffic jams at major roundabouts. Most of the heavy traffic one have traffic lights now.

[wbw6cos]

Try riding a motorcycle over there.  At least in the car, the steering wheel helps you orientate yourself on which side, but a bike??

 

Kidding aside.  When we rented a bike in London to do a Wales trip,  there was a few of the bikers from other parts of Europe that came out of the hotel parking lot on the incorrect side of the road.  Small back street (with no lines), but sort of funny as it took a few riders to motion them back in the proper lane.  I had no issues with riding a bike or driving a car in England (even LONDON!)  Of course, it helps being a proffessional driver in The States and making trips over there for the last 10 years, or so.  Although it took a while to get accustomed to being in the front passenger seat with no controls in front of me.  HA

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

On 5/18/2020 at 9:59 PM, Red said:

John,

I believe you are correct.  "I've heard most accidents in England happen to American drivers at the first roundabout leaving the car rental office."  Went to Scotland in fall of 2018 and didn't have the guts to attempt driving in the populated lowlands.  So, rented a car at the northern most point I could at the least populated town with rental, Inverness.  Wanted to go north to the Isle of Skye.  So right out of the box your instincts are all screwed up with the drive on the left and then you are confronted with a two lane round about.  Holly shit.  I got many a honk.  Never made contact.  Never made it to Skye.  We saw some great country but we were just bouncing around with the path of least resistance until we got back to the rental outfit.  Still don't know what the protocol is in those double lane jobs is.  Won't do that again.  The next day we hired a car & driver to do the whisky trail.  Now that's the way to go.

 

 

Be thankful you never ended up in Swindon's "Magic Roundabout":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)

 

 

 

[Bill_Walker]

21 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

there was a few of the bikers from other parts of Europe that came out of the hotel parking lot on the incorrect side of the road. 

 

Yeah, I've driven (4 wheels only) in the UK several times, and going from a parking lot (car park) to an unstriped road was the only place I ever had trouble remembering to keep left.  Happened a few times.  Luckily, my wife was with me to yell "Left!".

[Bill_Walker]

On 5/18/2020 at 6:59 PM, Red said:

Went to Scotland in fall of 2018 and didn't have the guts to attempt driving in the populated lowlands.

 

We rented a car in Edinburgh in 2017 and drove to Glasgow, thence to Oban, Skye, Glencoe, and back to Edinburgh.  But it was my third time driving in the UK, and I'd done my homework.  Thank goodness for GPS, though!  Getting out of Edinburgh was a bit hairy (though at least we'd already been there a few days, so had some jet lag recovery), but after that it wasn't bad.  Glasgow was much easier, and the countryside no problem at all.  And on the return, we spent the night outside of Edinburgh and just dropped the car at the airport.

The onramp to the M4 motorway just outside Heathrow has an exceptionally long striped-off paved area on the curb side beyond where you're supposed to merge. I'm convinced it's to give tourists who panic at trying to merge from the "wrong" side a place to pull over and think about it.

[Bill_Walker]

7 hours ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

Be thankful you never ended up in Swindon's "Magic Roundabout":

 

Holy crap!

But at least there's an "easy" way out: "The complex junction offers multiple paths between feeder roads. The outer circle carries traffic in a clockwise direction, like a normal roundabout (in places where traffic drives on the left hand side of the road), and less proficient users may choose to use only the outer circle. The inner circle carries traffic in an anticlockwise direction, and more proficient users may choose to use the alternative paths."

And it's hated but safe:

"In 2005, it was voted the worst roundabout in a survey of the general public by a UK insurance company.[6] In September 2007, the Magic Roundabout was named as one of the world's worst junctions by a UK motoring magazine.[7] In December 2007, BBC News reported a survey identifying The Magic Roundabout as one of the "10 Scariest Junctions in the United Kingdom";[8] however, the roundabout provides a better throughput of traffic than other designs and has an excellent safety record, since traffic moves too slowly to do serious damage in the event of a collision.[9]
 

In 2010, the National Cooperative Highway Research Program concluded that the roundabout reduces injurious crashes by three quarters."

[Hosstage]

I didn't take to roundabouts when they first appeared here, but when a friend pointed out that yes, there will still be accidents, but they will be low speed hits, no high speed T-bone collisions, I had to agree that they do work for that function.

[Oldironken]

Litchfield Ohio has had a roundabout at Rt. 18 and Rt. 83 forever ( i'm guessing since the time they had dirt roads).  Rt. 18 is a heavily traveled Truck Route and traffic flows nicely through it

 

It takes a lot of real estate but looks nice and is better than a traffic light

 

 

[Rougarou]

18 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

 

Yeah, I've driven (4 wheels only) in the UK several times, and going from a parking lot (car park) to an unstriped road was the only place I ever had trouble remembering to keep left.  Happened a few times.  Luckily, my wife was with me to yell "Left!".

 

Leaving the airport terminal in Glasgow, painted on the street at the crosswalk it says, "LOOK RIGHT",.......I thought that a funny.

 

 

Anyway, while stationed in Japan, I never had an "American" moment of driving on the wrong side, but upon return to the States, I did have a couple of "Japanese" moments as I'm driving, the wife calmly says, "you're on the wrong side",....me being always right, I say "nope",.....then slightly adjust my location on the road.

[Bill_Walker]

On 5/21/2020 at 5:52 AM, Rougarou said:

Leaving the airport terminal in Glasgow, painted on the street at the crosswalk it says, "LOOK RIGHT",.......I thought that a funny.

 

In many tourist areas in the UK, they have "look left" or "look right" painted on every crosswalk.  Stratford-upon-Avon being a case in point.

 

Walking gets weird in the UK (which you probably experienced in the Glasgow airport), because people have a tendency to walk the way they drive, and there are so many people in the UK from places that drive on the opposite side.  So, in a busy area, you get half the people wanting to keep right, and the other half wanting to keep left.  It makes for a lot of sidewalk ("pavement", in British English) maneuvering.

[Bill_Walker]

On 5/21/2020 at 5:22 AM, Oldironken said:

It takes a lot of real estate but looks nice and is better than a traffic light

 

That's one drawback of roundabouts: good ones take more real estate than a simple crossing.  Plus, they don't lend themselves to easy access commercial enterprises (no corner lots).

[dba]

On 5/18/2020 at 8:33 AM, John Ranalletta said:

 

I've heard most accidents in England happen to American drivers at the first roundabout leaving the car rental office. 

 

 

I didn't get into a collision, but apparently, I did incur a "bus lane offence" about 45 minutes after renting a car.  The rental company took their pound of flesh, but I've yet to hear from the issuing authority like they said I would.  I'd hate to get to passport control next year and be denied entry because I was convicted in absentia!

 

 

 

[WBinDE]

My first experience driving in the UK was was 20 years ago (no GPS) and my navigator (wife) was clueless with maps. I rented a car with a manual transmission from a garage in the center of Dublin - a city founded 1000 years ago, with roads laid out when horses were high-tech transport for the wealthy. So that was fun. Or perhaps "fun". I actually did well until I came across a multi-lane roundabout in Cork nonetheless I lived to tell the tale.

[Green RT]

Lots of multi-lane roundabouts in Mexico. Lane markers? Not so much.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

On 5/24/2020 at 9:27 PM, Green RT said:

Lots of multi-lane roundabouts in Mexico. Lane markers? Not so much.

 

 

I think the worst offender in this category is probably the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, France:

 

 

Pretty sure it's nine or ten "lanes" wide, albeit without any markings.  I drove around this in a rental car back in '92, and it was a nerve-wracking free-for-all.  Seriously, here's the streetview. 

 

 

On 5/22/2020 at 8:12 PM, Bill_Walker said:

In many tourist areas in the UK, they have "look left" or "look right" painted on every crosswalk.  Stratford-upon-Avon being a case in point.

 

Been to Japan several times, and I still regularly look in the wrong direction before stepping into a crosswalk.  Thankfully traffic there is pretty well-behaved.  

 

 

 

[Ydo]

On 5/18/2020 at 9:18 AM, BamaJohn said:

I've come to appreciate the efficiency of roundabouts, but it wasn't always that way.  In 2002 two buddies joined me in a walkabout in the UK and we hired a car for the 2 week trip.  Once, we entered a roundabout, driving on the wrong side of the road, and only partially sure of which exit to take, and we had to make 3 circles before we could get in the correct exit lane!  GPS does wonders to eliminate the uncertainty these days!  

Hey kids Big Ben...Hey kids Big Ben... Hey kids Big Ben... hey kids Big Ben...

[Bill_Walker]

On 5/28/2020 at 6:04 AM, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

I think the worst offender in this category is probably the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, France:

We rode in a taxi across that roundabout, and I do mean across it.  The driver came out of whatever other street we were on and made a beeline (a chord, to use the geometry term) across multiple lanes of traffic to get to the Champs Elysee, our destination!

[Rougarou]

10 hours ago, Bill_Walker said:

We rode in a taxi across that roundabout, and I do mean across it.  The driver came out of whatever other street we were on and made a beeline (a chord, to use the geometry term) across multiple lanes of traffic to get to the Champs Elysee, our destination!

 

Hehe,....not all roundabout, but on every trip to Naples, the taxi drivers are F1 drivers.  "Naples kisses" adorn nearly every vehicle on the road.  My last trip there in 2015 was my wife's first trip to Napoli, anyway, I told her that she had to sit in the front seat (motion sickness) especially in Naples and their drivers.  Anyway, we were going through a roundabout, decent speed, and I'm calm in the back seat enjoying the ride, the wife's eyes were wide as the driver is mere inches from the other cars,  he notices the wife's concerning look, "no worries, we just close, it's ok".  A second trip, we booked a nifty tour and the driver of the van, upon leaving Naples and passing Castle Nuovo, stopped, in the middle of the road to give us a history of the castle.  Cars just went around like nothing was going on.

 

 

[ltljohn]

2 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

Hehe,....not all roundabout, but on every trip to Naples, the taxi drivers are F1 drivers.  "Naples kisses" adorn nearly every vehicle on the road.  My last trip there in 2015 was my wife's first trip to Napoli, anyway, I told her that she had to sit in the front seat (motion sickness) especially in Naples and their drivers.  Anyway, we were going through a roundabout, decent speed, and I'm calm in the back seat enjoying the ride, the wife's eyes were wide as the driver is mere inches from the other cars,  he notices the wife's concerning look, "no worries, we just close, it's ok".  A second trip, we booked a nifty tour and the driver of the van, upon leaving Naples and passing Castle Nuovo, stopped, in the middle of the road to give us a history of the castle.  Cars just went around like nothing was going on.

 

 

I remember Naples cab rides well, If you really want an E-ticket ride tell them you will double the meter fare if they can get you to the NATO base in 20 minutes.  It's an exhilarating experience and it only cost me $20 at the time.

[Rougarou]

13 minutes ago, ltljohn said:

I remember Naples cab rides well, If you really want an E-ticket ride tell them you will double the meter fare if they can get you to the NATO base in 20 minutes.  It's an exhilarating experience and it only cost me $20 at the time.

 

1987, hot Italian lady walking down the street,.......hormoned up Marines in the cab ooohhh and ahhhhing, driver stops, floors reverse, says "reach out,.....you touch" other cars going round us as he performs this maneuver ,.....mind you, she was not a "paid lady", but just some nice looking lady walking down the street.

 

Ended up asking him the rules of the road,....he says "point a to point b",.........I'll leave it at that. 

 

Nary a car followed the lines painted on the roads.

[Antimatter]

I drove through the outskirts of Naples to get to the Villa Poppaea a couple of times.  Our local agriturismo said that area was no problem, but going into Naples proper would be a bit much for a non-italian driver.  The rules of the road I learned are that stop signs are suggestions, but everyone pretty much will obey a light.  Don't worry about scooters, don't stress, and keep your window rolled down to listen for buses on curvy roads (they honk before the tight corners).  I did notice that every car on the Amalfi Coast was missing mirrors or had bashed-in door panels. 

[Rougarou]

1 minute ago, Antimatter said:

  I did notice that every car on the Amalfi Coast was missing mirrors or had bashed-in door panels. 

 

That's interesting riding in a bus!!!!!  Look out the window and you're looking straight down,.....those Italians can drive!!!!!

[Antimatter]

2 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

That's interesting riding in a bus!!!!!  Look out the window and you're looking straight down,.....those Italians can drive!!!!!

 

The whole bus thing reminds me of a story I heard about the difference between Italians and Germans.  This was told by the proprietor of the place we stayed at in Positano.

 

There was a German tourist that stayed with them for a night before hiking down to the main road, finding a bus stop sign and waiting for the bus.  And he waited, and waited, and waited...hours passed and he eventually asked a local walking nearby if there was a strike or something.  'Oh, the bus doesn't stop there anymore', he was told.  Now, an Italian (per our host) would have started shouting 'Where's the bus!?!' after 20 minutes or so, but the German was willing to wait for hours because there was a sign saying a bus would stop there.  After I heard that story, I understood how to get around Italy a bit better.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Here's a time-lapse of traffic in one portion of the Arc de Triomphe roundabout.  At 0:38, a scooter near the bottom of the screen gets whacked, but eventually everyone gets up and carries on.

 

 

[Rougarou]

Plenty time to get out and check on things

 

[lkraus]

5 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

Here's a time-lapse of traffic in one portion of the Arc de Triomphe roundabout.  At 0:38, a scooter near the bottom of the screen gets whacked, but eventually everyone gets up and carries on.

 

 

I think I'd turn a block sooner and deal with the potential extra stops rather than go through that mayhem.

[dirtrider]

4 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

1987, hot Italian lady walking down the street,.......hormoned up Marines in the cab ooohhh and ahhhhing, driver stops, floors reverse, says "reach out,.....you touch" other cars going round us as he performs this maneuver ,.....mind you, she was not a "paid lady", but just some nice looking lady walking down the street.

 

Ended up asking him the rules of the road,....he says "point a to point b",.........I'll leave it at that. 

 

Nary a car followed the lines painted on the roads.

Afternoon__

 

 Nary a car followed the lines painted on the roads.-- That's my favorite part of driving/riding Italy. Road signs, stop lights, & lane markers are just suggestions. 3 painted lanes mean nothing if 4 or 5 cars with fit side by side. 

 

To most it seems like an Ant Farm on wheels but once you get used to that it feels right, plus it works (at least for me). 

 

The only signs that I really paid much attention to were the ones  stating there might be cattle in the road up ahead on the, steep walled,  twisty mountain roads as there is no place to evade due to no road shoulders & rocky sides.  

 

 

[ltljohn]

I ran across this in the early 80's when I was in Sicily. It describes it pretty well in a humorous vein.

Sex and the Italian Driver

[uncle fester]

I took my first BMW to Europe and never had a problem with roundabouts in either England or the Continent. My first encounter with the Arc de Triomphe was after dark in heavy traffic and quickly realized the right of way is different on the Continent. I loved the driving in Italy, made for motorcycles and scooters, go where you can fit and everyone respects the advantage. Unlike here where people hate those that can find an advantage. I did have two moments in England (my arrival destination) when my reflexes had me looking the wrong way when entering traffic. Other than that a great trip. Until some ass stole the horns off my bike when ferrying from Greece to Italy. In general I found the drivers in Europe to be far better than here. Upon returning, even with slower speeds and more space between cars I felt very threatened. And it has only worsened over the years to the point I prefer off road.

[Bill_Walker]

On 6/4/2020 at 11:36 AM, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

Here's a time-lapse of traffic in one portion of the Arc de Triomphe roundabout.

Well, it's not quite Mumbai, but it's working on it.

[Bill_Walker]

On 6/4/2020 at 5:22 AM, Rougarou said:

Hehe,....not all roundabout, but on every trip to Naples, the taxi drivers are F1 drivers. 

I think it's everywhere in Italy, in both taxis and "black cars".  I've experienced it in Florence, Rome and Milan.  After we got out of the cab after the first one, I said to my wife, "Well, now we know what it's like to ride along on an F1 qualifying lap!"  Leaving Rome, our B&B booked us a black car to take us to the airport.  We noticed lots of other black cars converging from various directions, and once we hit the Autostrada, the race was definitely on!

I was surprised, especially in Rome, where the traffic was pretty insane, to see very cars around with any body damage.  Roman drivers have excellent spacial awareness!

[wbw6cos]

1 minute ago, Bill_Walker said:

I was surprised, especially in Rome, where the traffic was pretty insane, to see very cars around with any body damage.  Roman drivers have excellent spacial awareness!

.....except when it comes to parking on city streets.