Warren Dean Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 So the other day, I was perusing the multitude of information on the Oilhead forum because I had zero classes to teach and I ran across a couple of clutch switch threads. While reading the stories, I was thinking...man, that sucks to have one go out. Well lo and behold, that very day mine died. I have an intermittent neutral lamp and I was stuck at work....LOL. So I gambled and cut the clutch switch wires and twisted them together, redneck Beemer repairs, and it worked. When I got home, I soldered the wires, clipped them short and installed heat shrink tubing over the "repair". I will have this bike till I die and in case anyone is inclined to grouse at me about the camouflaged repair, save the bandwidth. I am going to leave it as is and just pull the clutch in....like I have ALWAYS done for 35+ years of riding and call it good. New clutch switches are stupid expensive and used ones are... well... used and lifespan is questionable. Thought I would share the story because....COVID-19 has us all pretty much inert and the irony of the situation made me laugh. Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 I've done the same thing to several of my oilheads. Here's another trick. Turn on the key and jump hole 2 to hole 6 under the starter relay (square relay in the fusebox) with a thin piece of wire. Vrooom!. Link to comment
Warren Dean Posted April 5, 2020 Author Share Posted April 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Jim Moore said: I've done the same thing to several of my oilheads. Here's another trick. Turn on the key and jump hole 2 to hole 6 under the starter relay (square relay in the fusebox) with a thin piece of wire. Vrooom!. I shall remember that. I am going to write it in my log book. Thanks 1 Link to comment
dirtrider Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 40 minutes ago, Warren Dean said: I shall remember that. I am going to write it in my log book. Thanks Morning Warren Put a sub note next to that note (in BIG letters) to make darn sure that the trans is in neutral before doing this or you will be picking your motorcycle up & looking at the damage. Link to comment
Miguel! Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 16 hours ago, Warren Dean said: So the other day, I was perusing the multitude of information on the Oilhead forum because I had zero classes to teach and I ran across a couple of clutch switch threads. While reading the stories, I was thinking...man, that sucks to have one go out. Well lo and behold, that very day mine died. I have an intermittent neutral lamp and I was stuck at work....LOL. So I gambled and cut the clutch switch wires and twisted them together, redneck Beemer repairs, and it worked. When I got home, I soldered the wires, clipped them short and installed heat shrink tubing over the "repair". I will have this bike till I die and in case anyone is inclined to grouse at me about the camouflaged repair, save the bandwidth. I am going to leave it as is and just pull the clutch in....like I have ALWAYS done for 35+ years of riding and call it good. New clutch switches are stupid expensive and used ones are... well... used and lifespan is questionable. Thought I would share the story because....COVID-19 has us all pretty much inert and the irony of the situation made me laugh. Couple of comments... As we all know, there are two indicators showing whether the transmission is in neutral or not: The green neutral indicator lamp on the dash and the gear indicator on the rider information display (RID). I have found that if the green neutral indicator lamp on the dash is lit, the bike is, indeed, in neutral. But the bike can be in neutral and the green neutral indicator lamp can be off. (You can fiddle with the shift lever and it will come on tho.) OTOH, I have always found the gear indicator to be correct: if it shows "0", the transmission is in neutral, otherwise it isn't. I asked a BMW mechanic about this discrepancy. He told me the bike uses two different mechanism to determine the neutral state so the green neutral indicator lamp can falsely indicate the bike is in gear. He said is was a lot of work to fix it and the fix wasn't guaranteed. I, like many others, have just adapted to the idiosyncrasy. If you stall the bike, like at a light and you forgot to downshift to "1", you can "clutch in" and start the bike "in gear" while your foot is feverishly downshifting. I'm guessing that if you short the wires at the clutch lever, you will not be able to start the bike till you get the transmission into neutral because even tho you clutch-in, the electronics think the clutch is out (because you shorted the wires). Meanwhile, you may have an angry mob with axes and pitchforks ready to pounce on you for holding up in traffic. Just sayin'. Caveat: I think I have this right but someone will correct me if I am wrong. Best Miguel Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Warren Dean said: I shall remember that. I am going to write it in my log book. Thanks Try it once in the driveway before you have to do it for real. Link to comment
szurszewski Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Miguel! said: I'm guessing that if you short the wires at the clutch lever, you will not be able to start the bike till you get the transmission into neutral because even tho you clutch-in, the electronics think the clutch is out (because you shorted the wires). Your guess is not correct. If you short the bike side of the clutch switch wires together, the bike will think you have the clutch lever pulled in (clutch disengaged) and it will let you start the bike - regardless of gear position. With the switch in place but malfunctioning, the bike thinks the lever is NOT pulled in all the time, and will ONLY let you start the bike if it can see that you are in neutral. This is when you get into trouble and get the angry traffic mob behind you. (Because now the bike thinks you have the clutch engaged and you're in gear and will prevent you from running the starter.) edit to add: None of this is really the bike "thinking" - I mean, it's not based on computer decisions, but rather ground path for the starter relay.... I *think* Link to comment
dirtrider Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, szurszewski said: edit to add: None of this is really the bike "thinking" - I mean, it's not based on computer decisions, but rather ground path for the starter relay.... I *think* Afternoon szurszewski Yes, the clutch switch provides a direct ground for the low side of the starter relay pull-in coil. The transmission neutral switch does the very same thing only it grounds the pull-in coil through an isolation diode. Link to comment
Miguel! Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 1 hour ago, szurszewski said: Your guess is not correct. If you short the bike side of the clutch switch wires together, the bike will think you have the clutch lever pulled in (clutch disengaged) and it will let you start the bike - regardless of gear position. With the switch in place but malfunctioning, the bike thinks the lever is NOT pulled in all the time, and will ONLY let you start the bike if it can see that you are in neutral. This is when you get into trouble and get the angry traffic mob behind you. (Because now the bike thinks you have the clutch engaged and you're in gear and will prevent you from running the starter.) edit to add: None of this is really the bike "thinking" - I mean, it's not based on computer decisions, but rather ground path for the starter relay.... I *think* Thanks for the correction szurszewski. Cheers. Miguel Link to comment
szurszewski Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Miguel! said: Thanks for the correction szurszewski. Cheers. Miguel I learned this the hard way on my first oilhead - the neutral light got flaky, and then the clutch switch failed and all of a sudden I couldn’t start the bike until I could coax the neutral light into lighting. Pretty sure I leaned about shorting the switch here on this board and also learned how to replace the clutch switch without taking the whole grip/control pod apart. Link to comment
Miguel! Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 26 minutes ago, szurszewski said: ... also learned how to replace the clutch switch without taking the whole grip/control pod apart. How do you do that? I ask because I have an extra left hand grip module but the clutch switch is bad. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to take it out. I bought this "extra" grip to experiment with. I wanted to see if I could reduce the horn spring tension since is hurt when I engaged the horn with my arthritic thumb (I did find a way by the way). I purchased it on eBay but the told the seller that the clutch switch was defective. He refunded me and told me to keep the entire module. Other than the clutch switch, it works just fine and I'd like to fix it and put it back in to circulation for others if they need it. Miguel Link to comment
Warren Dean Posted April 5, 2020 Author Share Posted April 5, 2020 7 hours ago, dirtrider said: Morning Warren Put a sub note next to that note (in BIG letters) to make darn sure that the trans is in neutral before doing this or you will be picking your motorcycle up & looking at the damage. Yep..been there one time years ago. That's why I always pull the clutch in....LOL It was a 900 lb HD dresser. Link to comment
szurszewski Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Miguel! said: How do you do that? I ask because I have an extra left hand grip module but the clutch switch is bad. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to take it out. On the 1100 it's quite easy to get a dead switch out - just cut the wire close to the grip and then use a deep thin-wall socket to get the switch out. I'm thinking 11mm, but I don't know if that's correct. If you want to preserve the wiring, you can try to get in there with pliers or cut a slot in a socket to pass the wire through. To put the new one in, since you can't use a regular socket with the wire, you can use some long needle nose pliers to tighten the new switch (doesn't have to be all that tight - just enough to keep it seated really). Edit to add: this is the switch, that lives at the clutch lever, about which we're talking: Link to comment
dirtrider Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, Warren Dean said: Yep..been there one time years ago. That's why I always pull the clutch in....LOL It was a 900 lb HD dresser. Evening Warren That is one of the problems in jumping that starter relay, as it is about a 2 hand operation, with looking at what you are doing while jumping it, so holding the clutch lever in is usually not in the thought process. I have seen 3 BMW boxer bikes with jumpered clutch switches roll-off then fall over, all 3 did that during motorcycle service with thinking that the bike was in neutral but somehow it was slid into gear while working on them. Link to comment
Warren Dean Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 2 hours ago, dirtrider said: Evening Warren That is one of the problems in jumping that starter relay, as it is about a 2 hand operation, with looking at what you are doing while jumping it, so holding the clutch lever in is usually not in the thought process. I have seen 3 BMW boxer bikes with jumpered clutch switches roll-off then fall over, all 3 did that during motorcycle service with thinking that the bike was in neutral but somehow it was slid into gear while working on them. Link to comment
Miguel! Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 3 hours ago, szurszewski said: On the 1100 it's quite easy to get a dead switch out - just cut the wire close to the grip and then use a deep thin-wall socket to get the switch out. I'm thinking 11mm, but I don't know if that's correct. If you want to preserve the wiring, you can try to get in there with pliers or cut a slot in a socket to pass the wire through. To put the new one in, since you can't use a regular socket with the wire, you can use some long needle nose pliers to tighten the new switch (doesn't have to be all that tight - just enough to keep it seated really). Edit to add: this is the switch, that lives at the clutch lever, about which we're talking: Yes, that's exactly the switch. And the hex head part of the switch body is deep in a cavity which seems just big enough for the hex head which is what baffled me. I tried getting a pair of long-nose pliers in there but they were too big. I thought about the socket but the sockets I have wouldn't fit into the cavity so that's when I got stuck. I didn't worry about cutting off the end of the wire since I figure the switch, if you can buy it probably has the connector on the end of it. It's been a while since I looked at it. I don't really need the assembly but I hate to throw any parts for old vehicles that someone will need it some day in the future. Maybe I'll take another look at it tmw since I have the time and I'm working on my bike anyway (I'm removing the evap canister, purge valve and plugging up the hose.) Best Miguel Link to comment
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