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spacewrench

R1100S Pivot Points

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spacewrench

Since I have a major repair going on, I've been looking for other stuff to preempt/improve while I'm in there.  One thing I wondered about is the Telelever, paralever and swingarm pivot points.  According to the manual and parts fiches, I think these are all ball-bearing setups (grooved balls up front, tapered rollers at the swingarm, needle bearing at the final drive).  Given that all these points have a limited (and relatively modest) range, my understanding is that a plain bronze bushing would be a better fit -- similar friction, load spread over greater area, less wear.  But I only see a replacement for the swingarm to final pivot.

 

Am I wrong to think that the front swingarm pivot and/or the telelever pivot could be replaced similarly, with similar beneficial effect?  Or have people tried it and not found it satisfactory?  Or are those just not trouble spots?

 

What's up with the swingarm-to-final pivot?  Was that a known weak spot?

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dirtrider
57 minutes ago, spacewrench said:

Since I have a major repair going on, I've been looking for other stuff to preempt/improve while I'm in there.  One thing I wondered about is the Telelever, paralever and swingarm pivot points.  According to the manual and parts fiches, I think these are all ball-bearing setups (grooved balls up front, tapered rollers at the swingarm, needle bearing at the final drive).  Given that all these points have a limited (and relatively modest) range, my understanding is that a plain bronze bushing would be a better fit -- similar friction, load spread over greater area, less wear.  But I only see a replacement for the swingarm to final pivot.

 

Am I wrong to think that the front swingarm pivot and/or the telelever pivot could be replaced similarly, with similar beneficial effect?  Or have people tried it and not found it satisfactory?  Or are those just not trouble spots?

 

What's up with the swingarm-to-final pivot?  Was that a known weak spot?

 

Afternoon spacewrench

 

You just have to ask one question: If cheaper bronze bushings were superior to the more expensive bearings then why did  BMW  choose to go with the more expansive parts?

 

Was that a known weak spot?-- From my past experience the bearings work fine if properly lubed & properly adjusted. Also from my past experience the bushings don't properly hold long term adjustment. 

 

Some use the bushings but they aren't the holy grail that  some riders think.

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spacewrench
2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

You just have to ask one question: If cheaper bronze bushings were superior to the more expensive bearings then why did  BMW  choose to go with the more expansive parts?

 

Hah!  Good point!  I guess I'll just leave well enough alone, then.

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szurszewski

I tried one set of the bushings (for the FD pivots) on my first oilhead. As D.R. said, in that very limited experience, they did seem to require re-torquing, and when I inspected them prior to selling that bike, maybe 30 or 40k after putting them in, I found them to be scored a bit, so I put in a set of stock bearings before. Since then I've just used the stock ones. I do know some folks personally who've been very happy with "Nushings" (which is another option for the FD pivots), so if you really don't want to go with the stock bearings that's another option. That all said, I wouldn't bother to change them out at all unless yours are loose and won't hold a retorquing.

 

 

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AndyS
20 hours ago, spacewrench said:

 

Hi Spacewrench, you are looking to solve problems that just aren't there. These components last forever if they are set up correctly. 

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Lowndes

Looking for stuff to upgrade??  Have you installed new brake lines, upgraded the suspenders, drilled a weep hole for the clutch slave cyl, Rocket Sprokets, EV14 injectors, LED bulbs, AFXieD, an AGM rated voltage reg (if you have an AGM battery)??  I'd bet the TB's need a good cleaning, especially under the BBS.

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Lowndes
On 3/22/2020 at 11:52 AM, spacewrench said:

Since I have a major repair going on, I've been looking for other stuff to preempt/improve while I'm in there.  One thing I wondered about is the Telelever, paralever and swingarm pivot points.  According to the manual and parts fiches, I think these are all ball-bearing setups (grooved balls up front, tapered rollers at the swingarm, needle bearing at the final drive).  Given that all these points have a limited (and relatively modest) range, my understanding is that a plain bronze bushing would be a better fit -- similar friction, load spread over greater area, less wear.  But I only see a replacement for the swingarm to final pivot.

 

Am I wrong to think that the front swingarm pivot and/or the telelever pivot could be replaced similarly, with similar beneficial effect?  Or have people tried it and not found it satisfactory?  Or are those just not trouble spots?

 

What's up with the swingarm-to-final pivot?  Was that a known weak spot?

 

Spacewrench,

 

If you are disassembling the paralever swingarm to final drive pivot bearings during your explorations, you might watch a Chris Harris Youtube on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0_j8SuiFQI

 

He discusses and cusses the alternative bearings (15:40) but more importantly he discusses the correct torque value  (preload) for the left (adjustable) pivot pin.  My Clymer says 7 NM, CH says (16:10) the BMW shop manual is the same, but that his BMW training class said that 7 NM is incorrect and the correct value is 10-12 NM on the pin.  The lock nut is 160 NM.  

 

There are several alternatives to the BMW tool, or "window socket" to hold the pivot  pin with a hex wrench while torquing the locknut if you search.  I just made a window socket for that.

 

You might look up "phasing" the U-joints in the drive shaft, too.

 

Lowndes

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