My Boney Butt

[MichiganBob]

I've lost a lot of weight in the last two years, the equivalent of an average third grade boy. And lo and behold, I have discovered bones in my butt and can feel them more often that I prefer; especially on park benches and wooden chairs.  I'm thinking that my 2018 1250RT saddle with an airhawk cushion might not fit the bill this year, especially for a Saddle Sore 1000 this Spring. I've never been one to complain about stock saddles; the ones on my 02 and 12 were just fine with an Alaska Leather cover. But I'm thinking that I might need a custom touring saddle that fits my newly honed butt. So don't be shy brothers and sisters, what do you recommend? Many thanks and ride safe.

 

Michigan Bob

[AndyS]

I went down the Airhawk option and it never worked for me. It was like either sitting on a jelly or when you deflated it to just inflated it is plain uncomfortable. I have spent a lot of time playing with the bladder of that thing with no real success.

 

Based in the UK, we don't have easy access to the famed saddle builders folks across in the US have. The likes of Russell are just way to expensive to get built and then shipped across here. However, Sargent do have a UK distribution, and that is the route I took. I cannot compare with other brands, but what i CAN say is that the Sargent is WAY better than the stock item in nearly every respect. Although I do find that the rider saddle seems to not be as positively engaged on the bike as the OEM item. Haven't figured out why yet!

 

 

 

[Corazon de Pollo]

On the Hexhead I had a Touratech seat (made by Kahedo): I was extremely happy with it.

The seat on the Wethead is not as bad as that was and right now I have other spending priorities, but a seat is definetely on the list.

Sadly Kahedo was caught in the Touratech bankruptcy and has closed down. Sargent seats are too large for my tiny frame. Corbin can go pound dirt for how they treat paying customers.

That leaves Wunderlich as the only option I am aware of, and the good news is price has gone down a tiny bit in 2020.

[Rinkydink]

I’ve tried Air hawk (no), Sargent (good), Corbin (nope, hard as a rock, weighs a ton), Mustang (decent), and Saddleman (ok) but for my noassatall it has to be a Russell Day Long. Linkydink I’ve had three and for me there is no substitute.

A few caveats:

1. Inconvenient as you have to ship your stock seat pan to them ( or ride to Cali) rendering your bike out of commission for approx a month. You could find a used stock seat on this forum (or elsewhere!) and ship it instead. 
 

2. Expensive. They go for upwards of $1k according to options  You can just do your front seat for about half that if you never ride two up. 

 

3. Not the best looking seat IMO but my butt has never complained about that. 
 

4. if you are vertically challenged RDLs are wider which tends to shorten your inseam an inch or two but I’ve learned to do the slide (it becomes second nature) and scoot up towards the tank when stopping. It was more of a problem on my 1150RT (tiptoes) than my ‘09 and now even less of a problem on my ‘17RT. 
 

5. Seats like butts are all different and therefore this is not a one size fits all situation. I’ve read on this forum about riders whose RDL just didn’t work for them. The RDL company should comp me a seat seeing as I’m responsible for them selling about 10+ seats to friends, relatives, and fellow riders through the years. 
 

I’v heard good things about Bill Mayer seats but never experienced one. 
 

Good luck and I hope the solution you pick works for you. I have owned many many scoots over the years and never had a real problem with any stock seat...until BMW. For me they are just horrid. 

[realshelby]

Russell Day-Long is the only seat I can ride all day, day after day, on.  At this time of year I expect there is a months long wait for an appointment however. 

 

Trying a Sargent or Corbin isn't a total loss, you can get a good bit of your money back if you don't like them. The new Corbin looks a LOT better than their older models. 

[Ron-M]

Look at Seth Laam seats. Nice guy and reasonable prices.  

[92Merc]

I have a RDL on my bike.  I love it.  I wish the wings were a little less firm.  But overall, a great seat.  I am 5'10".  If you are much shorter than that, I don't think it'll work as it does raise you up a bit.

Seth, Bill Mayer would be my next recommendations.

I had a Corbin on my previous cruiser.  While it was a decent seat, it just isn't as good as RDL for the long road.  They are very firm.  Your but will either love it or hate it.  For the money, you're better off with Bill or Seth.  Especially if you are close enough to ride into their shops.  They'll modify it to your likes and body.

I'm just hoping Bill Mayer shows up to the BMW rally in Great Falls.  I need a better seat for my wife's RT.  And I have a spare pan with heat ready to be modified.

[alegerlotz]

I have a Sargent and I'm happy with it.  I didn't want to have to destroy my stock seat to build the Russel (and I wasn't crazy about the look of it either).

 

When I first got the Sargent, it didn't feel as much better than stock as I had hoped.  After a few months/about 2500mi it broke in and I like it quite a bit.

 

Anything over 200 miles on the stock seat would bother me quite a bit, even if I took a break every hour and a half or so.  I have done 400 mile days on the Sargent and have been infinitely more comfortable.  Its not perfect, but much much improved.

 

 

[Rinkydink]

I really love the look of the Sargent. Especially the contrasting welting. They are good seats. Had one on my FZ-09. 
 

 

 

 

[Ltripreno]

What RinkyDink said!   The seat from my 2019 RT is at Russell as we speak.  My 4th Russell seat.

[MachineJoe]

+1 on the Sargent seat and heats up in about 5 min when needed

[TEWKS]

4 hours ago, alegerlotz said:

I have a Sargent and I'm happy with it.  I didn't want to have to destroy my stock seat to build the Russel (and I wasn't crazy about the look of it either).

 

When I first got the Sargent, it didn't feel as much better than stock as I had hoped.  After a few months/about 2500mi it broke in and I like it quite a bit.

 

Anything over 200 miles on the stock seat would bother me quite a bit, even if I took a break every hour and a half or so.  I have done 400 mile days on the Sargent and have been infinitely more comfortable.  Its not perfect, but much much improved.

 

 

Nice seat (biased ) but also nice graphics! 

[Pappy35]

On my Camhead I have tried:

 

1. The OEM stock seat.
2. The OEM Extra Low bench seat (torture).
3. The OEM Low Comfort Seat.
4. Sargent (both low and regular).
5. A custom seat from Terry's Custom.
6. A Russell Sport seat.

 

So I speak with some authority regarding different seats and trying to penny-pinch. My bike came with 1 & 2. Both were NG (one was HORRIBLE). I bought the Comfort seat used for $225 and it was the one that worked the best for me and my short legs but wasn't something I would go and do a SS1000 on. The Sargent was OK and the seat from Terry was also nice but neither worked for me. I finally caved and bought a Russell. First day out on the seat I sat in it for two hours straight without a peep from my butt.

 

Knowing what I know now (after having spent $225, I returned the Sargents so no cost there, $500 for Terry's, and $650 on the Russell, so $1,375 total) is that I'd give Sargent a go first. They are reasonably priced, will take them back for a full refund (minus shipping from/to), are very well made, and they have great customer service. If they don't work then don't dick around and call Russell. I know now that's what I should have done but in trying to save $100 I ended up spending  $700+ more than I needed to.

[BobW03]

Pappy, how does the Russell Sport differ from the day long? Does the sport not have the 'wings' ? Also being in the short leg club I am curious about how different that Sport seat is from say the BMW Low Comfort seat..

[Paul De]

My bony butt has experience with both Russell Day Long and Sargent.  The Russell is as advertised, day long comfort.  I found the Sargent not as comfortable as the Russell , but it is far superior to the OEM torture device they sell with the bike.

[longjohn]

Bill Mayer in Ventura or legendary best seats also in Ventura. You can’t go wrong. Make an appt for the morning and ride home that day. You’re welcome. 

[MichiganBob]

Lot's of good suggestions here for me to research. I am not only shrinking horizontally but also vertically. I couldn't believe it at my recent physical that I am now 5"7" when once I was 5"10. That might be a factor to consider as I do not want to be much higher for safety at a stop. Another consideration is to have a seat that doesn't cant me forward on parts that do not like a lot of pressure. I looked at a Sargent on Revzilla today and it looks like they make a single model for each bike rather than a custom fit. I always wondered about those custom fits where you send them photos of you sitting on the bike and measurements and they craft a seat just for you. Really? Just wondering. 

[TEWKS]

9 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

I always wondered about those custom fits where you send them photos of you sitting on the bike and measurements and they craft a seat just for you. Really? Just wondering. 

 

Yeah, kind of reminds me of our air pack face piece "precise" fit test we did at work a couple years ago. A half hour of different movements with the test unit on...SMALL...MEDIUM....LARGE...PICK ONE! 

[alegerlotz]

12 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

Lot's of good suggestions here for me to research. I am not only shrinking horizontally but also vertically. I couldn't believe it at my recent physical that I am now 5"7" when once I was 5"10. That might be a factor to consider as I do not want to be much higher for safety at a stop. Another consideration is to have a seat that doesn't cant me forward on parts that do not like a lot of pressure. I looked at a Sargent on Revzilla today and it looks like they make a single model for each bike rather than a custom fit. I always wondered about those custom fits where you send them photos of you sitting on the bike and measurements and they craft a seat just for you. Really? Just wondering. 

FYI If you buy a Sargent from Revzilla, I'm not sure it has the same 30 day return policy as if you bought it direct from Sargent.  There are also more options direct from Sargent such as piping color, heat/noheat, etc...  I love Revzilla, but not for these seats. Direct from Sargent is the way to go.  If you wait for a holiday to come up, there are often discount codes as well.

[MichiganBob]

Good to know alegerlotz. Thanks.

[Rob Nowell]

call me crazy and call me cheap, but I am fine with my Airhawk.........350-400 miles a day for a week straight does not bother me at all

[migrant]

I've done a few ride-in seat builds with Rick Meyer and have purchased 3 used Russell seats for different bikes. I've ridden Corbin and Sargent but felt they were too firm for my taste. The Meyer was a little more tractor-seat feeling. The Russell is a little wider in the seating area. If you're not so tall, that may require you to shift slightly forward to get both feet on the ground. My '18 RT is the first bike I've had Russell customized a seat for me, last November. Zero regrets.

 

You expressed concern that the custom-to-you seats may be a hoax...I suggest you call Russell to discuss their process to put your mind at ease. There's always the option of buying a Sargent with the understanding you can send it back if not satisfied. At this point in time it may not be possible to get a Russell built in time for your Springtime Iron Butt ride.

[wbw6cos]

8 hours ago, TEWKS said:

 

Yeah, kind of reminds me of our air pack face piece "precise" fit test we did at work a couple years ago. A half hour of different movements with the test unit on...SMALL...MEDIUM....LARGE...PICK ONE! 

 

Not to burst a bubble, but I am thinking that a post about facial fitment comments do not belong in a post about boney butts.  Apples and oranges, as they say.  Right?   

 

 

[TEWKS]

Well It's not fun but, sometimes it takes a little "ass kissing"  to get to your desired destination so...   

[Pappy35]

On 3/12/2020 at 3:31 PM, BobW03 said:

Pappy, how does the Russell Sport differ from the day long? Does the sport not have the 'wings' ? Also being in the short leg club I am curious about how different that Sport seat is from say the BMW Low Comfort seat..

 

I can tell you directly since the Low Comfort seat is what I previously had. I have a 29" inseam and even with the low Comfort I was on the balls of my feet with my heels maybe 1/2" off the ground so it was very manageable. The Russell Sport seat does have wings (see the attached picture) and reach is obviously worse but, for me, it's still manageable.

 

I'd say my heels are now 1" off the ground. Different people react to this differently. Another person, and I read this all the time on the various forums, would go off the rails if they can't firmly plant for feet. This is subjective. I've had this reach problem all my life and I have developed strategies to deal with it. The seat should settle some but realistically I don't expect it to improve. For what it's worth, I'm getting ready to sell the Low Comfort seat.

 

The sport differs from the Day Long in that they either don't have an internal spring or there's somewhat less padding. They are a little vague on Sport seat details. They also do not have a buy-back guarantee. They will do a couple of adjustments like they do with the Day Longs but once you buy it, it's yours. Like any of the other seats, there's always some risk involved.

 

On 3/12/2020 at 9:00 PM, MichiganBob said:

Lot's of good suggestions here for me to research. I am not only shrinking horizontally but also vertically. I couldn't believe it at my recent physical that I am now 5"7" when once I was 5"10.

<snip>

I always wondered about those custom fits where you send them photos of you sitting on the bike and measurements and they craft a seat just for you. Really? Just wondering. 

 

Your height isn't the issue, your inseam is. I doubt the bones in your legs have shrunk. I don't think Sargent does custom fittings but I could be wrong.

 

11 hours ago, alegerlotz said:

FYI If you buy a Sargent from Revzilla, I'm not sure it has the same 30 day return policy as if you bought it direct from Sargent.  There are also more options direct from Sargent such as piping color, heat/noheat, etc...  I love Revzilla, but not for these seats. Direct from Sargent is the way to go.

 

I second this emphatically. I love RevZ too, they are my favorite online retailer, but not for this. Buy it directly from Sargent. Buy one they stock first for fitment, then, if you want to keep it, you could order one all customized how you like it and return the stock one. They are a REALLY good company to do business with. They have deals (I got $100 off or something like that around last years Rally).

 

[PadG]

19 hours ago, Rob Nowell said:

call me crazy and call me cheap, but I am fine with my Airhawk.........350-400 miles a day for a week straight does not bother me at all

I didn't want to pipe in on the subject at all, BUT I have to agree with you.  That is exactly what I have been using for many years now, with same result as what you have experienced.

 

HOWEVER, this only goes to amplify the fact that what one experience with the various seats is very much personal.  YOU (collectively speaking) may experience certain things with certain seats, but it doesn't necessary mean that I will experience the same thing!

[Ponch]

On 3/11/2020 at 7:17 PM, MichiganBob said:

I've lost a lot of weight in the last two years, the equivalent of an average third grade boy. And lo and behold, I have discovered bones in my butt and can feel them more often that I prefer; especially on park benches and wooden chairs.  I'm thinking that my 2018 1250RT saddle with an airhawk cushion might not fit the bill this year, especially for a Saddle Sore 1000 this Spring. I've never been one to complain about stock saddles; the ones on my 02 and 12 were just fine with an Alaska Leather cover. But I'm thinking that I might need a custom touring saddle that fits my newly honed butt. So don't be shy brothers and sisters, what do you recommend? Many thanks and ride safe.

 

Michigan Bob

 

I have a similar problem. I had a boney butt before losing weight. Don't get a cruiser. It'll be worse. I think the only solution is a new seat or pain killers of some sort. I did 780 miles in 11 hours with the stock seat once and I was done after that and I had an Alaska leather cover. 

[Rob Nowell]

3 hours ago, PadG said:

I didn't want to pipe in on the subject at all, BUT I have to agree with you.  That is exactly what I have been using for many years now, with same result as what you have experienced.

 

HOWEVER, this only goes to amplify the fact that what one experience with the various seats is very much personal.  YOU (collectively speaking) may experience certain things with certain seats, but it doesn't necessary mean that I will experience the same thing!

It also amplifies the fact that, for a $20k bike, a person should get a decent saddle included!

[PadG]

On 3/14/2020 at 1:44 PM, Rob Nowell said:

It also amplifies the fact that, for a $20k bike, a person should get a decent saddle included!

Just to be purely argumentative . . . . I have rented RTs while touring abroad, and so didn't have my Airhawk, and I don't have any issues with the stock (low) seat at all!  That's a fact, but MY fact, and obviously not so for you.  Many people think the world of RDL, but I can tell you that I would never ride with one.  That seat, as comfortable as it may be, will not allow me to ride in the way that I want to ride!  Again, personal preference! 

[Rob Nowell]

6 hours ago, PadG said:

Just to be purely argumentative . . . . I have rented RTs while touring abroad, and so didn't have my Airhawk, and I don't have any issues with the stock (low) seat at all!  That's a fact, but MY fact, and obviously not so for you.  Many people think the world of RDL, but I can tell you that I would never ride with one.  That seat, as comfortable as it may be, will not allow me to ride in the way that I want to ride!  Again, personal preference! 

Good point.  I assume you like to ride......"sporty" rather than just "tour-y."  Me, too!

[PadG]

16 hours ago, Rob Nowell said:

Good point.  I assume you like to ride......"sporty" rather than just "tour-y."  Me, too!

Very much so!    Old habit that is impossible to shake.  Having ridden abroad, and actually started to ride back in the very early '60s, also abroad, I find from observations that riders abroad tends to ride in the "sportier" technique, and riders here in the US )and most likely Canada) tends to ride as if they are riding cruisers (NOT a critique!)  The other factor is the type of roads.  Here, there are a lot of straight and smooth roads, while abroad you will run into a lot of very narrow and winding road, which means that one tends to move around quite often on the seat, and that helps to make the hard stock seat quite acceptable.

 

Just for kick, here is part of a ride that I had made in the Scottish Highlands:

 

 

So, how does BMW determine what is the best seat for the bike?  Put something like an RDL as standard seat and you will hear me, and many others squawk very loudly!

[ron c]

Mich Bob,

I tried the Airhawk on my ‘04 RT and it didn’t really help much. Then I bought a Russell day long.  It is very comfortable

all day, day after day. But it is taller than stock. I needed to buy lowered suspension get get my feet firmly on the ground.

Overall, money well spent.

 

I bought the Russell Sport for my Guzzi Norge. It is taller than stock no matter what the Russell website says. The Sport has the same general look as the day long. The Sport has slightly less pronounced wings compared to the day long and

the Sport does not use an internal spring. I’m pretty sure the Sport would have been good for all day on the Norge but I didn’t really test it. 

 

I traded the Norge for an ‘18 RT.  The stock RT seat didn’t work well for me so I bought a Sargent Low. It is a nice looking seat and my reach to the ground was less than the stock BMW seat. The comfort of the Sargent low (for me) is better than the stock BMW seat but still not what I wanted. I have ordered a Russell Sport for the ‘18 RT. My build date is mid-April. I’ll know more about the Russell Sport in a couple of months.

 

Hope this helps,

Ron c.  

 

[alexp]

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Posted Thursday at 01:42 AM

Russell Day-Long is the only seat I can ride all day, day after day, on.

 

I second that!

[MichiganBob]

Thanks Ron C. The Sargent low looks appealing. How do you see it as different than the RDL based on your experience? The foam, feel, give, the saddle fit?

 

MB

[ron c]

Afternoon, MB.

Keep in mind my experience is based on the RDL on my ‘04 RT and the the Sargent Low is on my ‘18 RT.

The S-L is firmer than the RDL. Not Corbin firm but firmer than the RDL. The firmness feels the same after 2k+ miles compared to new. The “wings” on the SL are not as pronounced as they are on the RDL and are farther rearward. This makes the reach to the ground easier but also gives less support. The SL has a 1 inch channel cut into the foam in the middle of the seat, front to back. This helps relieve pressure points in the “delicate” area. Some will find this a big help.

The RDL doesn’t have this channel but was never a problem for me. The SL has a small rise in the foam at the back of the seat. This gives me a slight (very slight) lean forward position. The fwd lean is related more to the reach to the bars than to the seat. Still, I notice it and don’t like it. I bought the heated SL and it works fine. The fit on the bike is perfect. No complaints. 

 

The advantage to the SL is turnaround time. Order today and receive it in a week or so. The RDL? Wait 3 months or more for a build date. Then send them your OEM seat and the bike is down for 4-6 weeks. If the SL doesn’t work for you, you

can ride the bike with the SL while waiting for the RDL. Then sell the SL and get at least some of your money back.

 

Russell has a buy back policy for the RDL but how does that really work? If I remember correctly, you return the seat to them twice for rework (you pay shipping) and if you’re still not happy they will buy your seat from you. So, you get your money back but you’re left without a seat. 

Stay well,

Ron   

P.S.  Visit the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point, U.P.

[Pappy35]

On my Camhead, I found the Sargent Low was much too hard (which is understandable given how little padding it had). Ground reach as compared to the Comfort seat was unchanged. I tried a "normal height" Sargent but ground reach was completely unworkable for me so I didn't put any miles on it to be able to effectively rate it. I recall though that is was comfortable. With their generous return policy, I'd highly recommend trying them first. That and they seats in stock so you can usually have it in just a few days and don't have to worry about sacrificing your current seat.

 

Russell gave me a build date and I shipped my donor to them about week before. Overall, from shipping the donor to getting the completed seat was about 2 1/2 weeks. 

[MichiganBob]

Good afternoon all. Hopefully, you are staying healthy. 

 

From resale and aesthetic point of views, how funky does it look to just change the driver saddle and leave the passenger saddle stock? My wife is too smart to ride with me and I don't anticipate any passengers.

 

Thanks,

 

MB

[strataj]

MB, I consider that personal so each of us will have an option.  I have a Russel, since my wife doesn't put any "real" miles in the saddle I didn't customize the passenger seat butt I had it recovered to match the front. 

[Rinkydink]

My brother just did the front saddle. Looked different but not hideous. If you’re talking about an RDL they aren’t that purty even if you do both saddles. As far as resale goes an aftermarket seat doesn’t really bring any more $$. You’re better off selling it separate. 

[TEWKS]

Bob, it looks half-assed. 

 

Seriously, Russell will recover the rear seat for a reasonable amount I think. 
 

darn, second again! 

[MichiganBob]

After everything I've heard, I'm leaning toward the RDL. It seems to be the most comfortable for my type of riding which is mostly long distance and not too sporty. I will contact them about the down time as that is a consideration with my short riding season up here in the northern kingdom. I could try the Sargent but it is probably too firm and I'm too old and cranky to get into a return mode unless absolutely necessary. I appreciate all of your feedback. You're the best.

 

MB

[MichiganBob]

Anyone have a nice photo of their RDL. Do you get to make choice about materials and seams?

 

MB

[TEWKS]

No longer have the seat or the bike for that matter but, here's a Russell from my K16GT. Basket Weave with the half moon stitching is what I believe it was called. Yes, many choices.

[Rinkydink]

I think you will be pleased. This is the half moon pattern. Sorry for the crappy pics. 

 

[MichiganBob]

Wow ... nice looking saddles.

 

MB

[Rinkydink]

2 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

Anyone have a nice photo of their RDL. Do you get to make choice about materials and seams?

 

MB

I perused the RDL website. Yes you have many choices. It doesn’t matter if you go vinyl or leather the stitching can allow water to compromise the outer skin and eventually ruin the seat innards. All of that to say this, buy the rain cover. If it is raining I ride with it on. If washing the bike (do we even do that?) it works great too. 

[MichiganBob]

Silly me, I was thinking that such a pricey item would be waterproof and that a rain cover would be for those few who love to farkle. Thanks -- it's good to know. I'm thinking that designing a super comfortable saddle requires dedicated sections which calls for seams and stitches which and these are porous. 

[MichiganBob]

Leather of Vinyl?  Hmmmmmmm. What do you think? Pros and cons?

 

Thanks.

 

MB

[Rinkydink]

I always went leather. More maintenance but my butt prefers it. Vinyl is mostly maintenance free but you can get a leather seat and vinyl sides iffn you want. Give ‘em a call, they always answered my every question. 

[Pappy35]

Vinyl. Between my not so boney butt and the seat are three layers of fabric (underwear, dockers, and 1000D Cordura. I seriously doubt I could feel the difference and so why 1) pay more, and 2) have to worry about maintenance?

 

As for waterproofness, I know several people that have had Russells on their bike for years, no seat covers, and the seats are fine.