Soft setting of ESA is too firm

[ron c]

Greetings,

2018 R12RTW with ESA

Selecting the soft setting and one helmet is still a firmer ride than I prefer. Is it possible to make the soft setting even softer?

 

Regards,

Ron C. 

[alegerlotz]

1 hour ago, ron c said:

2018 R12RTW with ESA

Selecting the soft setting and one helmet is still a firmer ride than I prefer. Is it possible to make the soft setting even softer?

 

Have you owned the bike since new or did you recently get it?   If you haven't had it since new, and its had some miles put on it, it might need a suspension recalibration.  Also, do you have your pre-load set appropriately (to match the number of riders and amount of luggage you're carrying)?

 

On my 2016, Soft is too soft IMO.  I run it in Normal or Hard (and always Dynamic mode).

[realshelby]

I agree that you might need the suspension calibrated. Most consider soft...simply too soft for anything but the smoothest of roads. 

[reg26]

You also might want to check what riding mode you are in. On my 2015 when you select Dynamic it automatically goes to hard setting . In other modes Soft is plush. I use it on the highway all the time

[ron c]

Thanks for the replies. I bought the bike new and have 3.7k on it now. I run dynamic, soft, one helmet.

I have not had the bike to the dealer since new. Can the dealer set suspension settings softer than the 

factory OEM settings?

Regards, Ron

P.S.   Terry, I’m very happy with the “WERKS” shield

 

[gary45]

The word soft, norm will be dim while the shock changes to what you select and will become brighter when the shock reaches the setting,  if it does not happen there is a problem, my 2018 rear shock preload failed, the replacement shock is a lot better

[Skywagon]

Reg26 is correct.  When you select Dynamic the bike switches to Hard.  Go look at your display.  If you are still in Dynamic it will show Hard.  Change Dynamic to Road and you can select and hold soft.  I suspect you will find you won't want soft but will prefer normal.

 

Maybe the 2018 is different but this is how it works on previous years.

[ron c]

I understand that dynamic automatically selects hard. I can then change to soft and I can feel the difference.

I’m quite sure I have dynamic, soft, one helmet selected.

Regards, Ron 

[ron c]

Huuummm,

Dynamic, soft, one helmet is firmer than I like. I haven’t tried ROAD, soft, one helmet. I’ll see if that makes me happy.

Thanks,

Ron

[Skywagon]

I just checked mine.  I set it to soft, then hit dynamic, and it switched to hard without me doing anything else.  I switched it back to soft while in dynamic and that worked as you described, but I had to go back to do it after setting dynamic.  If the road/normal doesn't work for you then I agree with Terry and others.  Take it to your dealer at service time and ask them to check calibration.  Others on this board have said it made a difference.  They were however looking for firmer not softer.  Keep us posted on your findings.  good luck

[ron c]

Thanks,  Skywagon and all,

Will do!

Ron

[AndyS]

Ron, I feel your pain. I went from a superb supple controlled ride on my 1150RT to this Wethead. I too find the ride WAY too firm for some of the roads in the UK. 

I, for the most part run the bike in 1 helmet, soft, rain mode (unless i'm out playing with my buddies). In that mode I expect a WAY better ride than I am getting. 

I have ridden many other Wetheads and they are all the same. 

I did however get my ESA recalibrated and it did indeed improve things, but it is still not the magic carpet ride that my 1150 was.

If you find a solution I will be most interested to hear.

 

11 hours ago, reg26 said:

 In other modes Soft is plush. I use it on the highway all the time

 

Mine feels relatively 'plush' on the Motorway (Highway), but it is down country lanes that I want it plush. It's easy to make a bike run smooth on smooth surfaces.

[realshelby]

I didn't go try it...but if you go to "Dynamic" using the button on the right control then can you go to suspension settings and select "soft"? Seems I tried that once and it worked. Though I may have gone to road instead of soft. Or maybe I have not recovered fully from my frontal lobotomy?

[realshelby]

14 hours ago, ron c said:

Thanks for the replies. I bought the bike new and have 3.7k on it now. I run dynamic, soft, one helmet.

I have not had the bike to the dealer since new. Can the dealer set suspension settings softer than the 

factory OEM settings?

Regards, Ron

P.S.   Terry, I’m very happy with the “WERKS” shield

 

Ron, the dealer cannot "adjust" your suspension like a shock builder can. What they can do is calibrate the shock package so it operates how it is supposed to . The height of the shock changes the damping properties. So it is critical that the height and therefore the damping be where the factory intended. THAT is what calibrating the suspension does as I understand it. I did it on mine using the GS911 tool. Mine actually became softer in Road, where I spend the majority of my time. 

 

Thanks for the business! I have a new toy out for the RT too!

[Limecreek]

Slightly different bikes, but I solved the too firm problem by removing the rear WESA strut and replaced it with a Wilbers strut.  The front end I left as is.  The combination of the WESA front and a manual rear strut on my R12RS is perfect for me.  One workaround item you need to purchase is a WESA disable box from Touratech. 

 

[ron c]

Thanks, Limecreek,

Replacement non ESA shocks are a possibility for me. Like AndyS I also came from a plush but controlled ride on an

’04 RT.  I went for a ride on the ESA ‘18 and tried all 3 modes (rain, road, dynamic) and soft suspension setting. I noticed no difference in the soft setting for all 3 modes. 

 

I have a Russell seat on order and I’m quite sure I’ll need lowered shocks. That will be a good time to go away from ESA.

Ted Porter at Beemershop recommends lowered Tractive brand ESA shocks. We didn’t talk about Tractive damping changes and still retain ESA.  I’ll need to follow up with Ted and seek more info.

Regards,

Ron  

[realshelby]

Ron, there is simply something wrong with the suspension on that bike. Getting that looked at is important!

I too had Ohlins on my '04 RT. Firm but great ride. The new 2014 was more firm and less compliant. But I have gotten used to it and accepted it. I think it handles so much better than the '04 and part of that is the suspension of course. On "soft" and with the "single helmet" showing in preload settings, there is simply NO way anyone should think it isn't soft enough!

[AndyS]

3 hours ago, realshelby said:

there is simply NO way anyone should think it isn't soft enough!

I do.

I have ridden many wethead RT's and consider them all to be the same as mine. Too hard on the soft setting.

 

I definitely agree with you that the handling is better on the Wethead than the 1150, but the supple irregular road  surface absorbing comfort most certainly isn't.

[Paul De]

When I ride two up with my wife she wants it to ride like a Lincoln Town Car from the '70s...pretty darn boaty.  We got spoiled on my oilhead after I put Ohlins on it which I could get to a magical compliant controlled plush ride.  So when I went to the ESA on my Wethead, I experimented with all the ride mode and ESA settings and while I never got back to the magic combo of ride qualities of the Ohlins, I found a few things to get it pretty close. When I ride with my wife I put the ESA set to 1+luggage and damping to soft.  The ride mode has to be set to Road(std) because if left in Dynamic, the stroke sensors are inputting to computer and it will make some adjustments regardless of what you display says and stiffen up as you go.  Also, as the miles went beyond 10K on the odometer it seemed that the suspension became a bit more compliant in any setting and I am guessing that stiction and maybe some bushing/bearing tightness was reduced over those miles.  The ride is now acceptable enough that I would not replace the shocks until the OEM units get used up.

[realshelby]

2 hours ago, AndyS said:

I do.

I have ridden many wethead RT's and consider them all to be the same as mine. Too hard on the soft setting.

 

I definitely agree with you that the handling is better on the Wethead than the 1150, but the supple irregular road  surface absorbing comfort most certainly isn't.

Andy, have you had yours calibrated?

I like a soft ride, especially on certain roads where I might just be eating up miles. But If I am not on fresh pavement, I don't often even try "soft". Mine is MUCH softer than the Ohlins were on the other RT. Too soft in that the rear, especially the rear, seems like it pogo's on every notable change in road surface. 

[gary45]

This my first RT so did not know what the ride would be like, a lot firmer from new than I expected, the shock had to replaced under warranty when the preloader failed, the new shock is very soft even when in dynamic, also the words for the settings now go from dim to bright when the shock has actually changed from one setting to another. The shock was defective from new.

[AndyS]

14 hours ago, realshelby said:

Andy, have you had yours calibrated?

I like a soft ride, especially on certain roads where I might just be eating up miles. But If I am not on fresh pavement, I don't often even try "soft". Mine is MUCH softer than the Ohlins were on the other RT. Too soft in that the rear, especially the rear, seems like it pogo's on every notable change in road surface. 

Yes, I've had mine recalibrated.  As I say, I have ridden a lot of Wetheads and know what the benchmark is. So when I first got my 2017 RT, it was (in comparison to other Wethead's) it was much firmer. So I had it recalibrated and is now the same as most other Wethead RT's I have ridden. I guess we all have different ideas of what soft and supple should be. But I do think the key word is 'Soft'. I think we need to identify what the objective is. I think the soft I am looking for is one that will soak up rough surfaced roads, painted lines on the road, expansion joints and the like. I am not talking about how well the bike copes with the bends. We know it does that pretty well. 

[Pickaxe]

On 1/28/2020 at 7:43 PM, ron c said:

Greetings,

2018 R12RTW with ESA

Selecting the soft setting and one helmet is still a firmer ride than I prefer. Is it possible to make the soft setting even softer?

 

Regards,

Ron C. 

My 2018MY RT is actually under damped in the solo/road setting, but perfect in the pillion/luggage setting when carrying a pillion and luggage. I'm about 12 1/2 stone kitted up.

[AndyS]

I want to clarify. I am talking about the suppleness of ride. Mine too seems a little better the more heavily the bike is loaded.

[realshelby]

2 hours ago, AndyS said:

Yes, I've had mine recalibrated.  As I say, I have ridden a lot of Wetheads and know what the benchmark is. So when I first got my 2017 RT, it was (in comparison to other Wethead's) it was much firmer. So I had it recalibrated and is now the same as most other Wethead RT's I have ridden. I guess we all have different ideas of what soft and supple should be. But I do think the key word is 'Soft'. I think we need to identify what the objective is. I think the soft I am looking for is one that will soak up rough surfaced roads, painted lines on the road, expansion joints and the like. I am not talking about how well the bike copes with the bends. We know it does that pretty well. 

Andy, I think we are talking about the same thing. Not worried about twisty roads, not going to be in "soft" there anyway. But yes, stuff like road cracks, patches, etc. Even the Ohlins allowed a bit of that to come in, but certainly LESS than the factory ESA on my Wethead. 

 

I know you have posted your tires...don't remember what they were, but I wonder if that isn't a bigger factor here. The best riding tire, and by a good amount, were the Dunlop RoadSmart III's. But they are NOT a GT/A Spec tire. I am running the T-31 GT tires, and the ride is more firm. Since I found that running the rear at 39 psi seems to give better rear wear that also took a bit of the sharpness off the bumps. I love the front at 35 psi for handling and it does ride smoother, but the front develops some scalloping at that pressure so I run 38-39. Try  lowering your pressure some on the next ride just to see how it feels. 

[Paul De]

10 hours ago, AndyS said:

I want to clarify. I am talking about the suppleness of ride. Mine too seems a little better the more heavily the bike is loaded.

This observation points to the springs selected for an average weight that is above yours.   Haha, we Americans prolly skewed that average toward lard @$$ a bit too much.  Start eating extra large deep dish pizza with extra cheese everyday and  by July your bike will ride nice and plush!  

 

Seriously though, I wonder if there are third party spring options that fit the OEM shocks.  That might be a very cost effective way to get close to the Ohlins or Wilburs for ride.  I suspect there are some valving differences that won't allow to OEM shocks to fully get to that plush ride you had with your 1150/Ohlins setup.

[AndyS]

12 hours ago, Paul De said:

 Start eating extra large deep dish pizza with extra cheese everyday and  by July your bike will ride nice and plush!  

 

Now there is one idea that I think I will possible pursue (in the interest of science, you understand!).

 

12 hours ago, Paul De said:

 

Seriously though, I wonder if there are third party spring options that fit the OEM shocks. 

 

Hmm, dual rate springs sound like a nice option...

[PadG]

Hey Andy - you can get deep dish pizza over there?? 

[Paul De]

52 minutes ago, PadG said:

Hey Andy - you can get deep dish pizza over there?? 

I'm not sure about the UK, but in the EU most of the pizza I've seen/eaten are like an oversized cracker with warm toppings.  Tasty, but lacking any real density of most US styles of pizza (hence my smart @$$ comment).   Deep dish I think is almost exclusively an American thing and Chicago style deep dish is something to marvel at.  Geno's East is one of my favorites, but there are other great ones. Layers of goodness like geologic strata.  One slice and most folks are done!

5 hours ago, AndyS said:

17 hours ago, Paul De said:

Seriously though, I wonder if there are third party spring options that fit the OEM shocks. 

 

Hmm, dual rate springs sound like a nice option...

And a bit more back on topic. Tractive in the Netherland may offer them, I'll dig deeper and come back if I find a US source. If you find someone else on your side of the pond that are making replacement springs please do share the knowledge.

[ron c]

Thanks to all for ideas about my firm ride even when selecting  the soft setting. I will have my suspension “calibrated”

before doing anything expensive.

 

I need some help getting my head around a softer spring. A softer spring would result in more wheel movement up and down but wouldn’t the ESA controller see that extra movement and select firmer damping thus negating the softer spring?  It seems to me the suspension parameters stored in the controller would need to be changed to make the softer

spring effective..........and if the parameters were changed would you even need a softer spring? 

Thoughts?

Ron

[gary45]

Have a look on youtube at the Ted Porter Beemer shop videos, he explains how esa shocks work. There is a stepper motor in the bottom of the shock that moves a small plunger up and down controlling the valving, there is no sensor to tell the controller wheel position. 

[Paul De]

23 hours ago, ron c said:

Thanks to all for ideas about my firm ride even when selecting  the soft setting. I will have my suspension “calibrated”

before doing anything expensive.

 

I need some help getting my head around a softer spring. A softer spring would result in more wheel movement up and down but wouldn’t the ESA controller see that extra movement and select firmer damping thus negating the softer spring?  It seems to me the suspension parameters stored in the controller would need to be changed to make the softer

spring effective..........and if the parameters were changed would you even need a softer spring? 

Thoughts?

Ron

 

In dynamic the dampening would be adjusted, but not in Road or Rain modes.  The other thing to consider is that the softer spring would not necessarliy cause more wheel movement, mayby a slightly lower ride hight and on soft damping cause less pogo as that setting is well under damped for the OEM spring.

[realshelby]

10 hours ago, Paul De said:

 

In dynamic the dampening would be adjusted, but not in Road or Rain modes.  

Are you SURE about that?

[alegerlotz]

I did some maintenance on my 2016 R1200RT yesterday (Bi-Annual brake flush and new front pads).  Along with that, I did both suspension calibrations available using the GS 911.

 

The suspension does seem slightly more compliant to me, but not so much to rule out placebo effect.  I wasn't unhappy with the suspension before I did the calibrations, however, so it may not have changed much as a result of doing them.

 

The brakes on the other hand... *wow*.  After the dealer did the original brake flush at 1 year, I felt like the rear brake was spongy, and the fronts were good, but not great.  After installing speed bleeders, then flushing the fluid and going through the ABS flush procedure on the GS 911, the rear pedal is rock solid (those pads are about half worn).  The front lever felt slightly squishy to me, even with the new pads, so I pumped lever and used a bungee to hold it over night.  Today that lever is nice and firm as well... I did a test ride this morning and the brake feel (lever/pedal and stopping power) is like new now!   It feels like the demo bikes I rode from the BMW truck back in November.

 

Sometimes there's no substitute for doing the job yourself!!

[Paul De]

On 2/9/2020 at 6:26 AM, realshelby said:

Are you SURE about that?

To be honest, I don't find anything specific on the mother ship's that specifically says that under road and rain modes the suspension  damping is static.  I will say that in any case the little I read implies that the soft damping setting while set to rain or road driving mode seems to be less firm than in dynamic mode and I have noticed that through the seat of my pants.  It could be that because the programing does make adjustments but in road or rain mode the range it would adjust to remains softer than when in dynamic mode.  I came to the conclusion that the softest ride settings I found when tooling around with my wife was setting dampening to soft while in rain mode.

[AndyS]

On 2/5/2020 at 10:17 AM, AndyS said:

Hmm, dual rate springs sound like a nice option...

 

Well, in follow up to my own comment I contacted Hyperpro in the Netherlands. My query was about variable rate springs front and rear. Here is their response:

 

The 1200RT you have, has the ESAII system.

Due to the way BMW has constructed this system, you cannot change anything on the suspension.

Another spring would mess up the ESA reactions, and the shock itself cannot be taken apart.

 

Sad news

[Paul De]

Dang, I guess that is the price of such a complex system.   I'll just have to get to work wearing out the OEM shocks to justify buying aftermarket ESA compatible shocks.   The Wethead ESA system is around 90% of my suspension perfection so I can't justify the price of replacement shocks yet.

[ron c]

Thanks AndyS for contacting Hyperpro. The response, while disappointing, is not a surprise.

 

Regards, Ron