Kobe Bryant

[Rinkydink]

Per TMZ and multiple sources Kobe Bryant killed in helicopter crash in California this morning. Not a BBall fan but so sad. RIP

[TEWKS]

Wow! 

[ESokoloff]

6 miles from me. 
 

RIP

[Whip]

One of the greatest.

[ESokoloff]

Juan has an initial report HERE.

Note that he has some of the facts incorrect due to developing information. 
9 were on board.  
I believe weather was a factor as it was quite foggy (unusually for this time of day 09:45) 6 miles away & it’s in this location (Malibu Cyn) that the Marine layer creeps up from the coast.  
 

Looking at the helicopters path on Flight Radar 24 via This Link ( NOTE 1/2 into the story find the link to Flight Radar 24 via multiple times) The aircraft tracking service Flightradar24 indicates that the helicopter had been used multiple times in the past week.
 

it looks to me that visibility was not an issue until they got over the Calabasas grade.

At that point the helo gained altitude & lost air speed but for the last 30 sec. lost altitude & gained speed until telemetry was lost.  
I had heard reports from an ear witness that they heard unusual engine noise but too early to draw conclusions (except fog likely was encountered). 

[Skywagon]

Most aviation accidents take a good bit of time to diagnose.  It's easy to jump to conclusions especially from non aviation witnesses.  So far speculation has been engine issue ( not likely since possibility of both failing at same time), LA Sherriff grounded helo's due to low vis....LEO's don't use helo's that way but many do so not relevant.  Legal air minimums in the area are 1sm horizontally and clear of clouds.  If lower vis than that the pilot can ask for (and did) what is called special visual flight rules.  He asked for them and got that permission....however when is SVFR extreme caution should be used.  Listening to his ATC transcript he was in touch with ATC, in between layers, and had been asked to hold outside the path of approaching planes to the airport.  He agreed.  Speculation on my part now....at that point it should have been pretty easy to hold in place between layers without spatial issues.  Been there done that many times.  He asked for and received clearance to proceed.  Shortly thereafter they lost contact and the crash happened.  This pilot was commercial, instrument, and instructor rated with many hours in this helo.  He was very capable of flying in this weather even if he went into the clouds.  This helo surely had good avionics helping him see how close to any hills he may have been.  In fact even basic GPS would have given him audible and visual warning of proximity if getting too close.  Did he fly into terrain...perhaps, but they helo was highly capable as was he even in those low level flight conditions.  I can't tell you how often I remind people if you get in over your head...use the freaking auto pilot and ATC to get out. When out of trouble land, get out, and kick you ass for getting into trouble as 98% is completely avoidable.

 

I sure don't know what happened...the media certainly doesn't, and we wont know for a while.  RIP for all and may the families and friends find peace

[ESokoloff]

Visibility was reduced East of this area (Los Virgenes Canyon) but it was VERY foggy once they left the San Fernando Valley.  
The terrain increased by several hundred feet as the craft rotated to the South, South/East. 

Weather was definitely a factor in this incident.  
 

Update from Juan

 

Ear witness

 

 

[beemerman2k]

Just a terrible tragedy; we lost some of the best examples of human beings available.

 

Coincidentally, when I lived in LA back in 2003-2006, I worked at CountryWide mortgage on right at Las Virgines and the 101--white office park buildings just north of the 101--fairly close to where that helicopter went down.  I remember gazing out the window (hey, I'm at work!) and seeing the coyotes run around the hillsides.  IF the crash wasn't fatal, I wonder if those animals would have proved a problem for the survivors?  If that crash wasn't fatal and it was August, I wonder if the resulting brush fires would have been a problem?

[ESokoloff]

1 hour ago, beemerman2k said:

Just a terrible tragedy; we lost some of the best examples of human beings available.

 

Coincidentally, when I lived in LA back in 2003-2006, I worked at CountryWide mortgage on right at Las Virgines and the 101--white office park buildings just north of the 101--fairly close to where that helicopter went down.  I remember gazing out the window (hey, I'm at work!) and seeing the coyotes run around the hillsides.  IF the crash wasn't fatal, I wonder if those animals would have proved a problem for the survivors?  If that crash wasn't fatal and it was August, I wonder if the resulting brush fires would have been a problem?

Hi James

 

I remember (now that you’ve mentioned it) that you worked in the area.  
 

I’m not an animal expert but I do know that LA County (Fire & Sheriff) had lots of resources there in a hurry.

Lost Hills Sheriff is just down the road and LACFD right across the 101.

 

As far as fire threat during a Santa Anna event.....

One one hand it would have the potential to reach the Pacific (*) but on the other hand I don’t think this accident would have happened as we don’t have fog & wind simultaneously. (I truly feel that the fog played a big part in this). 
 

(*) The brush in this area was consumed by the Woosley Fire so not a lot of excess fuel yet built up. 

[ESokoloff]

This video will help those not familiar with the area get acquainted with it.  

This images shows how the fog tends to be carried over the Santa Monica's from the nearby Pacific. 
The area of the crash (Las Virgenes Cyn) tends to have denser & longer lasting fog compared to the San Fernando Valley (from where it had just come from prier to the crash.  
 

 

The cause of the crash will not be officially determined for 1-1.5 years but wiki is already listing the cause of the crash to be from Spatial Disorientation (citation needed)
 

 

 

[ESokoloff]

Latest update from Juan.

 

 

[MikeB60]

We were just discussing the crash in the office after Juan's first video.  I work in ground investigations but our section also includes the aviation investigations branch for the Army.  Our aviators have a shit ton of combat hours and night vision device flying time in helicopters. Almost all of them have a story or three about spacial disorientation.  Interesting discussion for sure and for all of the time I've spent in the back of Blackhawks and Chinooks I'm glad there are two pilots in the front!  We also discussed the debris field at length, it definitely tells a story.  I'm a little dumb founded there is not a requirement for this type of helicopter to have some type of data recorder and a cockpit voice recorder. Not that it's necessary in this case to assist in getting to the root cause but there are times when that data is invaluable.

[Skywagon]

I flew a lot of IFR (instrument flight rules) when I lived in the south...actual conditions not simulated.  Fast forward to the middle part of life.  We moved to N. California and there was virtually never a cloud in the sky. The west coast is one of the greatest places on earth to fly.  What a privilege I enjoyed.

  To stay legally current we flew simulated IFR.  I saw many west coast pilots get IFR ratings without ever being in real IFR conditions when we lived on the west coast.  There is no simulation device made whether simulator or view restricting device that creates the same sensation as actually being in cloud or bad weather.  To stay IFR current you had to fly what was known as 6 and 6.  Six instrument approaches in 6 months or you were not current or legal to fly IFR.  So.....as many pilots on the west coast did (perfectly legal), I would dawn a view limited device and fly under the hood to meet the legal minimums with a safety pilot in the right seat.

 

Moving to Houston where the weather is IFR almost every day I quickly discovered my skills weren't as good as they once were flying under the hood mostly for 20 years.  I guarantee Marty knows what I'm talking about.  Now having lived in Houston area for 12 years and flying in all kinds of bad weather...real weather, my skills are back to where they need to be to be a safe pilot.

 

Juan's video in this thread points out the difference in simulated versus real.  Maybe this contributed to the Kobe accident, maybe not...but I can tell you without question simulated is a far cry from real.  In simulated you always have a slight ability to see the ground.  In real...nope...you are subject to your training and experience.

 

If for some reason you find yourself taking any kind of charter flight ( helo tour in Hawaii, Grand Canyon, etc), ask the PIC (Pilot in Command) a little bit about their experience level.  It's ok...they should not be offended.  I would offer my personal opinion as follows.  If it is a paid flight the PIC should have a minimum of 2500 hours, with a minimum of 500 hours in type, and a minimum of 100 hours real IFR (called IMC) not simulated.  Did you know you can actually acquire a commercial rating with as little as 250 hours?  There is no way IMHO that should be legal but it is.   

 

The Kobe pilot had roughly 8000 hours...iacw reporting.  He was highly legally qualified for the flight, but as Juans video ask...hmm was he a victim of simulated IFR versus real IFR...we will probably never know.

 

[ESokoloff]

1 hour ago, MikeB60 said:

.......

I'm a little dumb founded there is not a requirement for this type of helicopter to have some type of data recorder and a cockpit voice recorder.

.........

So is the NTSB.

 

fast forward to 07:00 

https://m.facebook.com/LosAngelesCountySheriffsDepartment/videos/2776784605703309/

 

[ESokoloff]

4 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

Latest update from Juan.

 

 

There are a few discrepancies in that video.

 

(1) The destination was Camarillo airport.

(2) The Lost Hills Sheriff helipad was to the right of the helicopter as it was in its turn. 
     
 

[ESokoloff]

Juan's latest (NTSB's preliminary report).

[ESokoloff]

One year later. 
Juan’s update.

[ESokoloff]

Juan’s video on the NTSB briefing

 

I can’t help but wonder why this area doesn’t have its own weather station including ceiling/visibility (or if it does, why it wasn’t utilized)?  
 

The unusually dense fog that morning took the pilot by surprise.