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lawnchairboy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/we-got-our-clocks-cleaned-gop-quietly-works-to-expand-ballot-harvesting-in-california-while-criticizing-democrats-for-the-practice/2019/03/13/a432d902-41b7-11e9-922c-64d6b7840b82_story.html

 

 

what's good for the goose....

 

I guess...  

 

but ballot harvesting is not an issue?  right? 

 

I guess the R's learned their lesson in orange county, huh?  

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lawnchairboy
21 hours ago, Selden said:

 

I would not consider the Gateway Pundit a reliable news source:

"Overall, we rate The Gateway Pundit Questionable based on extreme right wing bias, promotion of conspiracies and numerous instances of publishing false (fake) news." 

 

image.thumb.png.351a407274a0df26707396d55b980b6f.png

 

However, Gateway Pundit does rate slightly higher than Alex Jones' InfoWars.

 

So no comment I guess on either story? 

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Rougarou
41 minutes ago, realshelby said:

Nope, didn't say that at all. Those are your words not mine. 

 

From voter fraud to fake news to everyone Trump hires is worthless to everyone else should be blamed for this or that. That and more is the tale of the Republican Party today. I have distanced myself from that. Not that I won't vote Republican, I do when they are the best candidate. But Trump is ruining the standards that built this country. Too many follow him blindly. No one would be worrying about voter fraud if Mitt Romney had run and won the election. All a bunch of shadow games and diversion tactics. 

 

As I previously stated, Voter ID is not something new.

 

"While voter ID has been one of the hottest topics in elections policy for the last several years, its legacy extends back to 1950."

 

"In the 2000s, voter ID as an issue began to take center stage. The Commission on Federal Election Reform (aka the Carter-Baker Commission), in 2005 made a bipartisan recommendation for voter identification at the polls."

 

It's not a blind following, it's the getting away from the "presidential" mentality that "all" must be pleased rather than doing for the greater good of the country (people will get pissed).  In what I see, I think that's the "Trump Aura".  Is he perfect, hell no, not even close, but he's also not playing the "I'll be nice to you because that's how I'm supposed to be".  Some of the crap that he says makes me cringe and go WTF!!!   But, the bottom line, he is my president, just as the one before him and the ones before him.

 

 

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Ydo

Strange arguments about no voter ID and that voter fraud is not a problem and so forth and the Russians elected Trump and...  Let's just keep it simple and just walk in and say I'm John Doe, homeless with no ID and vote and come back and say I'm Doe John and vote again and repeat... as often as I can till someone recognizes I've voted here before and so I now go to another voting area and repeat ...and prove this ever would happen or your a racist and there is no evidence and the New York Times says voting is all legit but we should loosen the hurdle more so more uninterested people can somehow vote and they said again the Russian stole the election.  

 

I come from a Banana Republic country and I would say voting with an ID is not a very high standard.  In addition I would say you also need to register to vote too so you can't vote twice as my niece did while in college and again at home as I found out since registration was waved in college.  Remember one illegitimate vote for an opposing candidate cancels mine.  If Democrats or Republicans want more of the unfortunate citizens to participate they should just help them get the required ID, registered and move on.  If the poor are not capable of getting an ID, I would guess they are too inadequate to get their food stamps and government aid and so forth but somehow that isn't a problem.

 

As for the argument that homeless drug addicts should vote as if reckless voting is a right, citizens should vote after careful evaluation of the candidates and make a conscientious decision not just get dragged off the streets and told to vote this way and you'll get your fix.

 

Arguments for mail-in voting just reek of fraud potential since we are not stupid to think that clever groups can just gather thousands of ballots for those who don't care to vote (for whatever reason, don't like say candidate or whatever ...) and vote for their candidate the group is supporting. Only a group who thinks they will significantly benefit from this would support this.  

 

Voting should have a small hurdle like having official ID and in my opinion showing up to vote. If you can't be bothered or incapacitated than you need an acceptable excuse like hospital illness or military duty away from home or.... not just I'm poor and too stupid to vote in person.  Otherwise your vote should not count.  I'm a minority citizen and can sympathize with those groups but voting with a conscience is too important and one fraud vote could cancel my vote so my voter privilege in essence is denied. 

 

By the way I believe its racist and condescending to condemn minorities as too inadequate to handle these two requirements.

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chrisolson

Arizona requires both a photo ID AND voter registration so no, you can't just walk in and state your name and demand to vote.   In addition, your ID must have an address that matches your registration ... reason ... you can only vote in your precinct.

 

1 hour ago, Ydo said:

Arguments for mail-in voting just reek of fraud potential since we are not stupid to think that clever groups can just gather thousands of ballots for those who don't care to vote (for whatever reason, don't like say candidate or whatever ...) and vote for their candidate the group is supporting. Only a group who thinks they will significantly benefit from this would support this.  

 

 

You're going to have to help me with that ... how does this clever group identify only those who don't care to vote to be able to target them ?  If I don't receive my ballot, for sure I'm on the phone to find out why and get a replacement.

 

Additionally how does this clever group manage to actually gather those ballots?  Ballots are mailed to registered voters via the US Postal System which takes a dim view of mail theft or mail fraud.  Maybe ones or twos out of individual mail boxes if you somehow knew which, but thousands ????

 

Arizona also has a high percentage of residential developments where mail is not delivered individually, but to community boxes in which you have to have a key to gain access to your mail box.   Again, how is this clever group managing to acquire thousands of ballots without someone noticing ? 

 

At least in Arizona, if you are on the official list to receive a mail in ballot, you can not show up in person and vote.  (caveat, you can, but its a "provisional" ballot that only counts when its verified that there was not a mail in ballot filed, so no you can't vote twice ).

 

Lastly, in the 2016 election around 65% of Arizona votes were mail in ballots.  And yet, our current President won Arizona.  How can that be reconciled if mail in ballots are so bad and fraudulent ?

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Rougarou
5 hours ago, chrisolson said:

Arizona requires both a photo ID AND voter registration so no, you can't just walk in and state your name and demand to vote.   In addition, your ID must have an address that matches your registration ... reason ... you can only vote in your precinct.

 

 

 

You're going to have to help me with that ... how does this clever group identify only those who don't care to vote to be able to target them ?  If I don't receive my ballot, for sure I'm on the phone to find out why and get a replacement.

 

Additionally how does this clever group manage to actually gather those ballots?  Ballots are mailed to registered voters via the US Postal System which takes a dim view of mail theft or mail fraud.  Maybe ones or twos out of individual mail boxes if you somehow knew which, but thousands ????

 

Arizona also has a high percentage of residential developments where mail is not delivered individually, but to community boxes in which you have to have a key to gain access to your mail box.   Again, how is this clever group managing to acquire thousands of ballots without someone noticing ? 

 

At least in Arizona, if you are on the official list to receive a mail in ballot, you can not show up in person and vote.  (caveat, you can, but its a "provisional" ballot that only counts when its verified that there was not a mail in ballot filed, so no you can't vote twice ).

 

Lastly, in the 2016 election around 65% of Arizona votes were mail in ballots.  And yet, our current President won Arizona.  How can that be reconciled if mail in ballots are so bad and fraudulent ?

 

It's called ballot harvesting  

 

Here's an opinion from the attorney general of Texas.  (yes, it's Fox, so take it for what it's worth, but it is listed as opinion, I really wished he would have given links to the incidents)

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Warren Dean
7 hours ago, Ydo said:

Strange arguments about no voter ID and that voter fraud is not a problem and so forth and the Russians elected Trump and...  Let's just keep it simple and just walk in and say I'm John Doe, homeless with no ID and vote and come back and say I'm Doe John and vote again and repeat... as often as I can till someone recognizes I've voted here before and so I now go to another voting area and repeat ...and prove this ever would happen or your a racist and there is no evidence and the New York Times says voting is all legit but we should loosen the hurdle more so more uninterested people can somehow vote and they said again the Russian stole the election.  

 

I come from a Banana Republic country and I would say voting with an ID is not a very high standard.  In addition I would say you also need to register to vote too so you can't vote twice as my niece did while in college and again at home as I found out since registration was waved in college.  Remember one illegitimate vote for an opposing candidate cancels mine.  If Democrats or Republicans want more of the unfortunate citizens to participate they should just help them get the required ID, registered and move on.  If the poor are not capable of getting an ID, I would guess they are too inadequate to get their food stamps and government aid and so forth but somehow that isn't a problem.

 

As for the argument that homeless drug addicts should vote as if reckless voting is a right, citizens should vote after careful evaluation of the candidates and make a conscientious decision not just get dragged off the streets and told to vote this way and you'll get your fix.

 

Arguments for mail-in voting just reek of fraud potential since we are not stupid to think that clever groups can just gather thousands of ballots for those who don't care to vote (for whatever reason, don't like say candidate or whatever ...) and vote for their candidate the group is supporting. Only a group who thinks they will significantly benefit from this would support this.  

 

Voting should have a small hurdle like having official ID and in my opinion showing up to vote. If you can't be bothered or incapacitated than you need an acceptable excuse like hospital illness or military duty away from home or.... not just I'm poor and too stupid to vote in person.  Otherwise your vote should not count.  I'm a minority citizen and can sympathize with those groups but voting with a conscience is too important and one fraud vote could cancel my vote so my voter privilege in essence is denied. 

 

By the way I believe its racist and condescending to condemn minorities as too inadequate to handle these two requirements.

 

A well stated argument in a sea of partisan vitriol. Bravo!!

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Paul De
20 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Has there been any right winger that has specifically said that "we want voter ID laws so that minority's and poor cannot vote" in any recent times.

They (Republican pols/operatives) have said they rely on voter suppression and all their efforts seem to disenfranchise the poor and college students.  So, no they are not so dopey to say such things directly....wait, some Republican are that dopey.

 

https://billmoyers.com/2014/10/24/voter-discrimination/

 

Gov. Chris Christie: Same-Day Voter Registration Is a “Trick” and GOP Needs to Win Gubernatorial Races So They Control “Voting Mechanisms”

Fran Millar: Georgia Senator Complains About Polling Place Being Too Convenient for Black Voters

Doug Preis: An Ohio GOP Chair Says We Shouldn’t Accommodate the “Urban — Read African-American — Voter-Turnout Machine”

Greg Abbott: Texas AG Says Partisan Districting Decisions Are Legal, Even if There Are “Incidental Effects” on Minority Voters

Ted Yoho: Only Property Owners Should Vote

Don Yelton: North Carolina GOP Precinct Chair: Voter-ID Law Will “Kick Democrats in the Butt” and Hurt “Lazy Blacks”

 

 

And this one which is near and dear to me as it involves efforts to suppress votes in Wisconsin.  You have to marvel at the hutzpah where Justin gaslights the AP reporter even though they have the audio recording and fully understood that statement in its full context.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-adviser-republicans-voter-suppression

 

...Justin Clark, a senior political adviser and senior counsel to Trump’s re-election campaign, made the remarks about voter suppression on 21 November as part of a wide-ranging discussion about strategies in the 2020 campaign, including more aggressive use of monitoring of polling places on election day in November 2020.

“Traditionally it’s always been Republicans suppressing votes in places,” Clark said at the event. “Let’s start protecting our voters. We know where they are ... Let’s start playing offense a little bit. That’s what you’re going to see in 2020. It’s going to be a much bigger program, a much more aggressive program, a much better-funded program.”

 

Asked about the remarks, by the Associated Press, which obtained the audio recording, Clark said he was referring to false accusations that the Republican party engages in voter suppression...

 

 

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chrisolson
3 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

It's called ballot harvesting  

 

Here's an opinion from the attorney general of Texas.  (yes, it's Fox, so take it for what it's worth, but it is listed as opinion, I really wished he would have given links to the incidents)

 

That its Fox is not a problem ... its on my read list every day ... and yes, links  would be helpful ..


Apparently in Arizona we don't have harvesting groups roaming the countryside ... or they're actually not that clever or Arizona voters are not that gullible ... since again ... with a majority of votes cast by mail in Arizona  ... we generally vote conservative on a local and state level and the current President won the state. 

 

And unfortunately I can't find again the the source of the 2016 numbers, but the current number of voters signed up for mail in ballots is somewhere around 80%  - https://www.azcleanelections.gov/how-to-vote/early-voting/ballot-by-mail so its not so much a stretch to say the earlier number should be within the bounds of reality.

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Rougarou
2 hours ago, Paul De said:

They (Republican pols/operatives) have said they rely on voter suppression and all their efforts seem to disenfranchise the poor and college students.  So, no they are not so dopey to say such things directly....wait, some Republican are that dopey.

 

https://billmoyers.com/2014/10/24/voter-discrimination/

 

Gov. Chris Christie: Same-Day Voter Registration Is a “Trick” and GOP Needs to Win Gubernatorial Races So They Control “Voting Mechanisms”

Fran Millar: Georgia Senator Complains About Polling Place Being Too Convenient for Black Voters

Doug Preis: An Ohio GOP Chair Says We Shouldn’t Accommodate the “Urban — Read African-American — Voter-Turnout Machine”

Greg Abbott: Texas AG Says Partisan Districting Decisions Are Legal, Even if There Are “Incidental Effects” on Minority Voters

Ted Yoho: Only Property Owners Should Vote

Don Yelton: North Carolina GOP Precinct Chair: Voter-ID Law Will “Kick Democrats in the Butt” and Hurt “Lazy Blacks”

 

 

And this one which is near and dear to me as it involves efforts to suppress votes in Wisconsin.  You have to marvel at the hutzpah where Justin gaslights the AP reporter even though they have the audio recording and fully understood that statement in its full context.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-adviser-republicans-voter-suppression

 

...Justin Clark, a senior political adviser and senior counsel to Trump’s re-election campaign, made the remarks about voter suppression on 21 November as part of a wide-ranging discussion about strategies in the 2020 campaign, including more aggressive use of monitoring of polling places on election day in November 2020.

“Traditionally it’s always been Republicans suppressing votes in places,” Clark said at the event. “Let’s start protecting our voters. We know where they are ... Let’s start playing offense a little bit. That’s what you’re going to see in 2020. It’s going to be a much bigger program, a much more aggressive program, a much better-funded program.”

 

Asked about the remarks, by the Associated Press, which obtained the audio recording, Clark said he was referring to false accusations that the Republican party engages in voter suppression...

 

 

 

Ya, close and insinuating, but ah hell, ........I got nuthin to come back with that.  Those statements are "leading" and some outright racists.

 

No defense on that,......but,.....even some Democrats, at least use to think, mail in ballots were not the answer.

 

 

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Paul De

Don't get me wrong, I have no illusion that the Dems are not a bunch of scoundrels as well and if given a chance they will gerrymander with the best of them.   Republicans talk about expanding the tent and if they are serious they need to revise policies based on conservative principles that actually help these groups become fully part of the "good economy".  Old white guys like me are a declining demographic and need new blood.   Haha, it sounds just like the motorcycle industry.

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Rinkydink

Some comic relief...

 

 

0E9C27F0-0C40-49EE-934D-348214F0F911.jpeg

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Rougarou
10 hours ago, Selden said:

 

I think it's funny, but I dunno about El Presidente (and elected officials), but on the DoD side, military may "reside" in a certain place, but the legal residence is elsewhere.

 

Could be a simple thing of misreading the registration.......but, he should have been more thorough

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Paul De
On 6/4/2020 at 6:11 AM, Rougarou said:

 

I think it's funny, but I dunno about El Presidente (and elected officials), but on the DoD side, military may "reside" in a certain place, but the legal residence is elsewhere.

 

Could be a simple thing of misreading the registration.......but, he should have been more thorough

Haha, Trump doesn't have to look too far to find his massive voter fraud!  The law and order types always claim ignorance is not a defense for breaking the law.   And considering the applicant, there is ignorance in abundance.

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lawnchairboy
eddd
lawnchairboy

.  ALways absentee.  even when outside US

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lawnchairboy

always had a voting officer who directed all that, it was an assigned duty

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eddd

 

11 minutes ago, lawnchairboy said:

always had a voting officer who directed all that, it was an assigned duty

 

So you're saying with a voting officer, and ballots being sent from around the world there is no way anyone could tamper with those votes?  I see voter machines as an easier way to mess with the voting.  

I'm in favor of measures that make voting easy for everyone to avoid situations like what happened recently in Wisconsin.  

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chrisolson

It seems that some politicians have no trouble "talking the talk" but apparently many have some difficulty "walking the walk"

 

Case in point ...

 

79% (which of course represents an overwhelming majority) of Arizona Republican legislators (both House and Senate) are registered for mail in ballots (as well as most Democrats and citizen registered voters).  In Arizona, as a registered voter, you have the option of placing yourself on a state voter list to have all ballots mailed to you ... not just national or state elections but city and county as well.  This is not absentee (as in you are out of state) ballots, but normal voting.

 

And as of the most recent reckoning, 80% of all registered voters in AZ have opted for vote by mail.

 

And ,  Az elected our current President with this same vote by mail system in the last national election.

 

So , obviously, mail in ballots are not intrinsically bad .  

 

 

 

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roadscholar
1 hour ago, chrisolson said:

So , obviously, mail in ballots are not intrinsically bad .  

 

 

..in Arizona.

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chrisolson
23 minutes ago, roadscholar said:

 

..in Arizona.

 

So OK ... like the little ditty someone once said ... maybe "one size doesn't fit all"  

 

But the point is still valid that vote by mail is not intrinsically bad ...

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roadscholar
2 hours ago, chrisolson said:

 

So OK ... like the little ditty someone once said ... maybe "one size doesn't fit all"  

 

But the point is still valid that vote by mail is not intrinsically bad ...

 

True, not in and of itself, but it is a method of voting that makes it easier for those of malicious intent to subvert than having to show up in person. 

 

My state (admittedly the southern half) has a history of voting problems from hanging chads to Brenda Snipes (Broward County Supervisor of Elections)“losing” a significant number of ballots, and I’m sure there are other examples. The point is if someone’s intent on voter fraud they’re going to try it, making it easy just increases the chances. It doesn’t take a whole lot to skew the results.

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chrisolson
29 minutes ago, roadscholar said:

My state (admittedly the southern half) has a history of voting problems from hanging chads to Brenda Sykes “losing” a significant number of ballots, and I’m sure there are other examples. The point is if someone’s intent on voter fraud they’re going to try it, making it easy just increases the chances.

 

Ok, I'm a bit lost as the two examples have nothing to do with mail in ballots and really nothing to do with folks of malicious intent (well maybe Ms Sykes ... not familiar with the details)

 

Lets just say we might just have to agree to disagree on this one since I have yet to see a verifiable case of fraud involving  mail in ballots which changed the course of an election.

 

 

 

 

 

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roadscholar
1 hour ago, chrisolson said:

 

Ok, I'm a bit lost as the two examples have nothing to do with mail in ballots and really nothing to do with folks of malicious intent (well maybe Ms Sykes ... not familiar with the details)

 

We're still not sure about the first but there's no doubt about the second, Google Brenda Snipes. Not all states are the same, this one has had some issues. 

 

1 hour ago, chrisolson said:

 

Lets just say we might just have to agree to disagree on this one since I have yet to see a verifiable case of fraud involving  mail in ballots which changed the course of an election.

 

Just saying if someone wanted to it's a fairly easy way to do it,  probly why Dems want it and Republicans don't.  :grin:

 

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chrisolson
6 minutes ago, roadscholar said:

Just saying if someone wanted to it's a fairly easy way to do it,  probly why Dems want it and Republicans don't.  :grin:

 

 

Still have yet to see or be presented with any verifiable proof on how "easy" it is to do .... particularly on any meaningful scale ...  

 

 Anyway, political trickery is bipartisan .... always has been and will be .... :18:

 

over and out.   :5590: 

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Hosstage

At least one of the parties is above board, and not prone to dirty play to gain advantage.

As soon as I find it, I'll let you know.

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chrisolson
1 hour ago, Hosstage said:

At least one of the parties is above board, and not prone to dirty play to gain advantage.

As soon as I find it, I'll let you know.

 

 

flyingpigs_med_hr.jpeg.b36100be05c2fd228616e54494aba48b.jpeg

 

:grin:

 

 

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Hosstage
41 minutes ago, chrisolson said:

 

 

flyingpigs_med_hr.jpeg.b36100be05c2fd228616e54494aba48b.jpeg

 

:grin:

 

 

 

Yup!

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realshelby

Funny how "voter fraud" was such a topic when O'Bama won his elections. 

 

Funny how "voter fraud" is such a topic now that Trump is slipping in the polls! 

 

Voter fraud may have a chance to effect some local elections. But on a national scale I think not. 

 

Drink that Kool-Aid!

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Antimatter

Ironically, mail-in ballots don't help either party.  Both Republicans and Democrats use them at about the same rate. 

 

Shutting down poling stations in inner cities definitely helps Republicans, though.  It's almost as if preventing poor people and POC from voting is a major strategy for the Right.  Might explain the plethora of voter ID laws we see in 'red' states as well.

I just applied for my mail-in ballot here in MN yesterday.  Going to sit at home, research my down-ballot elections, and cast my votes.

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lawnchairboy

it just cracks me up because over and over, folks will insist that voter fraud just doesn't happen when it is quite clear that it does and sometimes makes a difference.  

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realshelby

But it cracks others up when clearly the FACTS show that voter fraud isn't the incredible problem some try to propose. I don't see anyone on this thread writing that there is no voter fraud? 

 

Sometimes makes a difference? Show us an example of a state level election for a Senator, Congressman, or Governor was proven to have been elected or denied because of voter fraud? The key word there is "proven". You can bet that the Right Wing Dark Secrets Media would have that on their front page if it were true. Strike that, they would and probably do have something like that on their front page....

 

Yes, voter fraud happens. Give your neighbors a quart of whiskey if they will vote for you for Sheriff. Or Mayor. Dig up your relatives birth certificates ( that you attended the funeral of ) and vote for them. Yes there have been attempts to "lose" ballots, not count ballots, or use illegal means to get voters to vote your way. Rarely are they beyond the local or county area. Trying to do that on a State scale would be very, very hard to keep covered up. 

 

What is really pissing off people about voting is the movement to get lower income and people of color registered and convinced that voting is what they need to do. One of the great things about this United States is our right to vote. And it does NOT sit well with the Old Gentlemens clubs when those they consider unqualified to make such decisions.....indeed cast a vote. 

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lawnchairboy

Now I understand.  Voter fraud is unimportant as long as it isn't state or national level.   

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realshelby

Well, you can take that position if it pleases you. I don't. I also don't think there is enough voter fraud today to make it a national topic. On any level. But it makes sense to some to lay the foundation to fight removal from office if things don't go Trump's way.....

 

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lawnchairboy

How did you leap to 'laying the foundation' by 'some' and trump? 

 

Is it it even possible for you to respond without resorting to the words 'right wing' or intimating partisan BS?

 

have a good one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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realshelby
12 hours ago, lawnchairboy said:

How did you leap to 'laying the foundation' by 'some' and trump? 

 

Is it it even possible for you to respond without resorting to the words 'right wing' or intimating partisan BS?

 

have a good one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a debate on a wide open forum. Someone WILL write something you don't like to hear. I can be more Conservative than many here. I can be more open minded than many here. I don't see any reference to "right wing" in my post? Perhaps just mentioning Trump is that in itself. I see a trend among the Republican party to make voter fraud a big issue. It has never been a big issue, in my opinion based on facts that even you posted in links. I think there will be an effort to claim error in the election should it be close this November. Making it look like a problem now...will make that easier in November. 

 

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lawnchairboy
56 minutes ago, realshelby said:

This is a debate on a wide open forum. Someone WILL write something you don't like to hear. I can be more Conservative than many here. I can be more open minded than many here. I don't see any reference to "right wing" in my post? Perhaps just mentioning Trump is that in itself. I see a trend among the Republican party to make voter fraud a big issue. It has never been a big issue, in my opinion based on facts that even you posted in links. I think there will be an effort to claim error in the election should it be close this November. Making it look like a problem now...will make that easier in November. 

 

go back through the thread, you write that more than once.

 

voter fraud has no party affiliation.   

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realshelby

Let's see...Tammany Hall article is based on the last half of the 19th century. Or the late 1800's as we might think of it. 

 

Yes, Florida and other states have examples of voter fraud. But do 8 unqualified voters registering really swing an election? That is voter fraud after all, in that they must vote to make a difference. Those listed likely only registered to look more like a normal citizen. Does anyone think finding ballot boxes with all votes (except one) would pass muster to be legal today? There are a LOT of unqualified voters, including Trump if you count the technicalities of residency.  

 

Voter fraud has no party affiliation. True. But currently the Republican Party is spending a LOT of time and effort fighting mail in ballots. On the premise they are certainly going to promote voter fraud. I don't see any other party pushing that agenda right now? 

 

 

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lawnchairboy
3 hours ago, realshelby said:

This is a debate on a wide open forum. Someone WILL write something you don't like to hear. I can be more Conservative than many here. I can be more open minded than many here. I don't see any reference to "right wing" in my post? Perhaps just mentioning Trump is that in itself. I see a trend among the Republican party to make voter fraud a big issue. It has never been a big issue, in my opinion based on facts that even you posted in links. I think there will be an effort to claim error in the election should it be close this November. Making it look like a problem now...will make that easier in November. 

 

"everyone Trump hires is worthless..."    "trump is ruining the standards...."  "far right propaganda..."   "Hanging chads 'decision''  "the right wing looks at demographics..."  "the right wing cannot stand thinking about all those voters..."  "right wing position"  "republican 'principles'"   "right wing deception"...  "trumps favorite pet media"...   "the right wing just does not want...."       

 

 

No references at all to the "right wing", nope.  

 

it is an open forum, I support our first admendment.   Comment away.  Flame on.  I am against voter shenanigans.  "right-wing" or otherwise.  

 

 

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realshelby

Not in the post I referenced. 

 

No one here wants voter fraud. 

 

I, personally, don't want it used as an excuse for a failed candidate. On either side.

 

Guess which party is adamantly against mail-in ballots due to ( unproven ) voter fraud?

 

Saying it is so over and over does have an effect. Some begin to believe what they hear if repeated often enough.

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Rougarou

Over 1100 convictions since 1982

 

If a person is caught speeding, is anyone else speeding or was it only the single one that was caught?  Just because there aren't more convictions doesn't mean it isn't happening.

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Hosstage

Vote early, vote often.

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realshelby
19 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Over 1100 convictions since 1982

 

If a person is caught speeding, is anyone else speeding or was it only the single one that was caught?  Just because there aren't more convictions doesn't mean it isn't happening.

That is actually a very interesting link! Click the dropdown arrow for more details. Finally some facts. Yet nothing that constitutes the current alleged number of voter fraud activity. 

Yes, people speed. That comparison is used often, but I would counter with "if a murderer is caught, how many don't get caught?". You could use littering as an example, then counter with bank robbery. 

 

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Rougarou
12 minutes ago, realshelby said:

That is actually a very interesting link! Click the dropdown arrow for more details. Finally some facts. Yet nothing that constitutes the current alleged number of voter fraud activity. 

Yes, people speed. That comparison is used often, but I would counter with "if a murderer is caught, how many don't get caught?". You could use littering as an example, then counter with bank robbery. 

 

 

Yes, I checked some of the drop downs.

 

How many murder's don't get caught,......I dunno suppose just one or two,.....nothing to make a difference in the big scheme of things.

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TEDZ

Except in Cicago.  :)

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