1996 1100rt vs 2003 1150rt.

[bob duke]

Hi there.

First post here, my name is bob and i live in athens europe.
Sold my k1100lt because i couldnt stand the heat anymore, and now searching for an oilhead.I have found a 96 1100rt and a dual spark 1150rt .Both very good condition, with 50k miles  and same price!

Everyone has GS here ,RTs are rare ,  i dont have much options

Rode both bikes and liked the 1150 better, i found it more easy to handle and absorbed road imperfections nicely,  didnt like servo brakes at slow speed. Is the geometry the same on these bikes?

1150 had a little rear wheel play, just barelly, 1100 was rock solid, and the gear changes was SMOOTH.I have rode many 1100gs, that gearbox was the finest.

Reliability wise, is the old 1100 a safer buy?

I think are fewer parts to go wrong on 1100.Also i found quality  better on the older bike, on par with my ex K11

Any advice is welcome..

 

[Jim Moore]

I'm not in love with either of those two, for different reasons. The 96 has a good chance to suffer from the infamous third gear skip. If you get another test ride, downshift to third, then whack the throttle wide open. If you feel a big lurch you have a problem. IF not it doesn't necessarily mean a problem won't develop in the future. The issue is a PITA, but some folks ride with it for tens of thousands of miles. 

 

The 1150 has two things I don't care for. First, it has the servo brakes. Some people love 'em. I don't. The 1150 also has a chance to fail from the even-more-infamous clutch spline issue. With that issue everything feels fine until one day you let out the clutch and the input shaft tears out the clutch splines, bringing you to a (literally) screeching halt. That bike won't move again until you perform a multi-thousand dollar repair.

 

If you're looking for an old-school oilhead, I'd look for a 98-99 or 2000 (with the five-speed transmission). If you're down to the two you listed, I'd go with the 96.  It's simpler, cheaper, and there is less chance of a catastrophic failure.

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, bob duke said:

Hi there.

First post here, my name is bob and i live in athens europe.
Sold my k1100lt because i couldnt stand the heat anymore, and now searching for an oilhead.I have found a 96 1100rt and a dual spark 1150rt .Both very good condition, with 50k miles  and same price!

Everyone has GS here ,RTs are rare ,  i dont have much options

Rode both bikes and liked the 1150 better, i found it more easy to handle and absorbed road imperfections nicely,  didnt like servo brakes at slow speed. Is the geometry the same on these bikes?

1150 had a little rear wheel play, just barelly, 1100 was rock solid, and the gear changes was SMOOTH.I have rode many 1100gs, that gearbox was the finest.

Reliability wise, is the old 1100 a safer buy?

I think are fewer parts to go wrong on 1100.Also i found quality  better on the older bike, on par with my ex K11

Any advice is welcome..

 

 

 

Morning Bob

 

That is a difficult choice as the 95/96 1100RT was probably the worst of the 1100RT series & the late 2003/2004RT was probably the best of the 1150RT series.

 

Both the 1100 & the 1150 can have ABS brake issues but the 1150 (I-ABS) is more difficult to deal with during & after  ABS module failures. 

 

Both the 1100 & the 1150 can have the same final drive issues so that is about a wash.

 

The early 95/96 1100RT used an external oil thermostat so that system was kind of a pain to work around (not a real big deal though, just a pin in the a$$).

 

As Jim mentioned the early 1100RT bikes could have gear skipping & transmission bearing failures (gearbox didn't use clean bearings or back-cut sliders). 

 

It might boil down to how you ride (how fast for how long)  & the vehicle laws in your country. 

 

The 1150 6 speed is a much happier  'sustained' high speed motorcycle due to the overdrive 6th gear. 

 

The 1150 (I-ABS) power brake system has a much quicker ABS response time with better braking balance  (when it works). 

 

If your county has yearly vehicle inspections with brake performance requirements then you could (eventually) get stuck with a very high repair bill on the 1150RT. If no real vehicle inspections & no braking requirement testing then you do have the option of removing the 1150 ABS system & converting the 1150 to a standard braking system as that leaves you with very good conventional braking (some European countries are very  strict on messing with the braking system so this would depend on your countries laws & restrictions).

 

The headlight is slightly better on the 1150RT for high speed night riding but still nothing to write home about. 

 

The 1100 bike has a manual clutch cable that is pretty durable & allows adjusting to your preference.

 

The 1150 bike has a hydraulic clutch that is smoother to use but it can eventually leak fluid into the clutch area then ruin a perfectly good clutch (there are work arounds to prevent clutch damage if a leak occurs but they don't come from the factory that way). 

 

The 1150RT's do have somewhat of a history with (very expensive) transmission input shaft spline failures but the later twin spark bikes were less prone to spline failures & for some reason European 1150 bikes had even less spline failure problems. 

 

Very difficult decisions as both bikes have their strong points & both have their weak points. (the 1100RT is easier to service though)

 

If your country allows ABS removal (if/when it fails)  then probably the 1150 twin spark would be the better bike due to the  overdrive transmission, twin spark engine, & better headlight.

 

Or another option is: if you can find a late 2008 or a 2009 1200RT in your price & mileage range than that would be a much  better motorcycle in all areas from ABS system, to engine performance, to handling, to high speed riding, (much improved over both the 1100 & 1150 BMW's).

 

If you have any specific questions about either motorcycle then we will be more than happy to answer those for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bob duke]

Thanks for the help guys.

As i said before,  the bikes ride different...liked the 1150 better,  an easy friendly bike, like a HONDA! ( i had st1100 in the past)

R1100 felt heavier.. maybe low tire pressure?  also a harsher ride...).These bikes have same geometry??

Both bikes had new tires.

 

The reliability issues from internet.( splines- stick coil failure- hydro clutch) made me think 1100 instead off 1150,  but at my country  there are plenty high mileage gs1150 with no spline problems.

 

Also this specific 1100rt is fabulus, absolute no rust, not a minor scratch...tight brake disc bobbins , radio, BMW gps , tools..Lovely 1100 example indeed.And it shifted like butter

 

Unfortunally 1200rt is over my price limit.

 

No strictly MOT test here, so i can remove ABS anytime.

 

At motorway usually stay at 140-160 km,,  only for overtaking go faster.  At least with my ex k1100 and st1100.

 

Now i make things worse...more confusing. price is the same on both...

 

 

[Paul De]

6 hours ago, bob duke said:

1150 had a little rear wheel play, just barelly, 1100 was rock solid,

Rear wheel play would be a red flag for the 1150 for me and have me leaning toward the 1100.  Or wait and see if you can find either an 1100 or 1150 from their respective best years as mentioned above

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, bob duke said:

Thanks for the help guys.

As i said before,  the bikes ride different...liked the 1150 better,  an easy friendly bike, like a HONDA! ( i had st1100 in the past)

R1100 felt heavier.. maybe low tire pressure?  also a harsher ride...).These bikes have same geometry??

Both bikes had new tires.

 

The reliability issues from internet.( splines- stick coil failure- hydro clutch) made me think 1100 instead off 1150,  but at my country  there are plenty high mileage gs1150 with no spline problems.

 

Also this specific 1100rt is fabulus, absolute no rust, not a minor scratch...tight brake disc bobbins , radio, BMW gps , tools..Lovely 1100 example indeed.And it shifted like butter

 

Unfortunally 1200rt is over my price limit.

 

No strictly MOT test here, so i can remove ABS anytime.

 

At motorway usually stay at 140-160 km,,  only for overtaking go faster.  At least with my ex k1100 and st1100.

 

Now i make things worse...more confusing..

 

 

Afternoon Bob

 

You have difficult decision indeed.  At 140-160 kph (85-100 mph) you will probably like the 1150 6 speed better at high speeds  but a smooth running 1100 will beat a buzzy 1150 even with the 6 speed difference (some are smoother than others).

 

If you can remove the ABS (if it ever gives you expensive problems) then that takes some of the bite out owning the 1150, stick coils are a possibility but those can be found on the internet & shipped in pretty easily, not so with a transmission. 

 

It will probably boil down to bike condition, how much you trust the seller, how they both ride & handle at higher speeds.

 

I have owned a number of 1100RT & a number of 1150RT BMW's  & each has it's strong points & weak points. 

 

Maybe go ride each bike again, both at low & at high speeds, then make a list of what you like & dislike on each motorcycle, then see what matters to you most.  

 

 

[Michaelr11]

8 hours ago, bob duke said:

R1100 felt heavier.. maybe low tire pressure?  also a harsher ride...).These bikes have same geometry??

Both bikes had new tires.

Low tire pressure could definitely make the bike ride heavy. Bring a pressure gauge and a tire pump and ride it again. Get the tire pressure up to 39/41 front/rear, or close to that.

 

Harsh ride could be tires but more likely suspension setup or worn.

[bob duke]

I did a search about gearboxes

I have a question.

M97 has sealed bearings and undercut gears.Late m94 have also the sealed bearings.

The concept behind this is to prevent bearing failure from metal flakes, right?

 

k100-1100 gearboxes had also open bearings and plain gears..but they are robust as hell.

Why so many problems with M94 unit?

A friend of mine had a 1995 gs from new.. .He said to me that they dont shift the right way and finnaly destroy the gearbox..He sold his bike with 270.000klm , no repairs on his gearbox.

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, bob duke said:

I did a search about gearboxes

I have a question.

M97 has sealed bearings and undercut gears.Late m94 have also the sealed bearings.

The concept behind this is to prevent bearing failure from metal flakes, right?

 

k100-1100 gearboxes had also open bearings and plain gears..but they are robust as hell.

Why so many problems with M94 unit?

A friend of mine had a 1995 gs from new.. .He said to me that they dont shift the right way and finnaly destroy the gearbox..He sold his bike with 270.000klm , no repairs on his gearbox.

 

 

 

 

Morning Bob

 

The biggest issue with the m-94 was the lack of engagement dog undercut so with time & many shifts they would  (could) jump out of gear (usually 3rd).  Some bearing wear would make the jumping out of gear more pronounced as the shafts could move fore/aft effecting  engagement depth.

 

As they started slipping out of engagement the corners of the engagement cogs would round off making the problem even worse.

 

How they were shifted probably had some effect but that wasn't the main issue.  

[bob duke]

42 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning Bob

 

The biggest issue with the m-94 was the lack of engagement dog undercut so with time & many shifts they would  (could) jump out of gear (usually 3rd).  Some bearing wear would make the jumping out of gear more pronounced as the shafts could move fore/aft effecting  engagement depth.

 

As they started slipping out of engagement the corners of the engagement cogs would round off making the problem even worse.

 

How they were shifted probably had some effect but that wasn't the main issue.  

ok..i got it now.

I must go for m-97 gearbox if i want 1100

Finally, between these 2 bikes, 1150 seems to be the better buy

HES and throttle cables are better on 1150..

Stick coils and clutch pump  can be changed

Gearbox failure is a no no situation

 

And last but not least..this 1150 was a very nice ride

 

Also searching ebay, found many secondhand 6 speed gearboxes with good splines.

5 speed second hand transmittions were considerably lesser than 6 speeds

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paul De]

One last thing on heavy handling on the R1100RT.  If the tires are well past mid life the tire profile will cause the bike to have a heavy feel.  Fresh tires fix this.  I'm not sure if this is the same on the R1150RT.  Be aware of how used up the tires are on each bike, or you might be making an apples & oranges comparison.

[RogerC60]

On 12/31/2019 at 10:10 AM, Paul De said:

One last thing on heavy handling on the R1100RT.  If the tires are well past mid life the tire profile will cause the bike to have a heavy feel.  Fresh tires fix this.  I'm not sure if this is the same on the R1150RT.

 

Fresh tires on my R1150RT last summer lightened up the feel, made the bike more maneuverable. Just one data point for you...

[bob duke]

 

On 12/30/2019 at 6:42 PM, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon Bob

 

 

 

I have owned a number of 1100RT & a number of 1150RT BMW's  & each has it's strong points & weak points. 

 

 

 

 

Best wishes for a Happy new year

 

One more question

Do you notice any difference between these bikes handling?

My examples both had good 2018 made tires with nice round profile..but 1150 was lighter on his feet.

Also how many rpm difference is at 160km ?

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, bob duke said:

 

Best wishes for a Happy new year

 

One more question

Do you notice any difference between these bikes handling?

My examples both had good 2018 made tires with nice round profile..but 1150 was lighter on his feet.

Also how many rpm difference is at 160km ?

 

Evening Bob

 

Yes & no on the difference in handling. My 1100RT's were a little more sluggish but back when I was mainly riding 1100 bikes the tire technology was from that era so tires on my 1150 bikes were more advanced.

 

To me the 1100RT has a slight disadvantage, even today, as the 1100rt uses a 4.50x18 rear wheel  (18" rear tire) vs  a 5.00x17 rear wheel (17" rear tire) on the 1150rt. A LOT more tire choices in the 17" size.

 

Things like how much fuel in the gas tank,  or if either bike has a radio, can also effect the bike's reaction to line change.

 

On both the BMW 1100 & 1150 the  rear wheel is seldom in line with the front wheel (rear wheel offset from bike's centerline & front tire) as the BMW build specs are pretty broad & the broad alignment  specs can allow a pretty big offset from center line  so some 1100/1150's do track better than others.

 

I still have (had up until this winter) both an old 1100RT & 1150RT in my stable but the bikes have old worn tires & lots of miles. To me they BOTH feel like a coal truck compared to my newer BMW's & especially sportier motorcycles. 

 

I ride so many different motorcycles per year (mostly other riders bikes) that I just ride what I am on & don't really pay a lot of attention to how it handles as I don't,  as rule, push hard on motorcycles that are not mine.

 

Both the BMW 1100RT & 1150RT have an inherent problem called PTTR (Pull-To-The-Right) some are really bad & others are less sensitive. That can make them feel slightly odd as they are leaned over across  center at lower speeds. 

 

The PTTR is both a weighting problem as neither have their lateral mass on the bike's centerline, & a tracking problem due to that rear wheel off-set that I mentioned above. It's not so much the rear wheel  tracking off-set that causes the problems but the off-set rear wheel causes even more mass off-set from centerline  (on both the 1100 & 1150 bikes if you take your hands off the handlebars while riding  they will probably both have a pretty decided pull or lead off to the right. (it can feel odd until you get used to it)

 

At one time I noted the RPM difference at 160kph (100mph)  but that was long ago, I believe there were also couple of different 6 speed  transmission 6th gear ratios available so that would also effect the RPM difference.  

 

 

[bob duke]

10 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Evening Bob

 

Yes & no on the difference in handling. My 1100RT's were a little more sluggish but back when I was mainly riding 1100 bikes the tire technology was from that era so tires on my 1150 bikes were more advanced.

 

To me the 1100RT has a slight disadvantage, even today, as the 1100rt uses a 4.50x18 rear wheel  (18" rear tire) vs  a 5.00x17 rear wheel (17" rear tire) on the 1150rt. A LOT more tire choices in the 17" size.

 

Things like how much fuel in the gas tank,  or if either bike has a radio, can also effect the bike's reaction to line change.

 

On both the BMW 1100 & 1150 the  rear wheel is seldom in line with the front wheel (rear wheel offset from bike's centerline & front tire) as the BMW build specs are pretty broad & the broad alignment  specs can allow a pretty big offset from center line  so some 1100/1150's do track better than others.

 

I still have (had up until this winter) both an old 1100RT & 1150RT in my stable but the bikes have old worn tires & lots of miles. To me they BOTH feel like a coal truck compared to my newer BMW's & especially sportier motorcycles. 

 

I ride so many different motorcycles per year (mostly other riders bikes) that I just ride what I am on & don't really pay a lot of attention to how it handles as I don't,  as rule, push hard on motorcycles that are not mine.

 

Both the BMW 1100RT & 1150RT have an inherent problem called PTTR (Pull-To-The-Right) some are really bad & others are less sensitive. That can make them feel slightly odd as they are leaned over across  center at lower speeds. 

 

The PTTR is both a weighting problem as neither have their lateral mass on the bike's centerline, & a tracking problem due to that rear wheel off-set that I mentioned above. It's not so much the rear wheel  tracking off-set that causes the problems but the off-set rear wheel causes even more mass off-set from centerline  (on both the 1100 & 1150 bikes if you take your hands off the handlebars while riding  they will probably both have a pretty decided pull or lead off to the right. (it can feel odd until you get used to it)

 

At one time I noted the RPM difference at 160kph (100mph)  but that was long ago, I believe there were also couple of different 6 speed  transmission 6th gear ratios available so that would also effect the RPM difference.  

 

 

  

 

So much details.Thanks for doing this.

You help me a lot..

 

Yes i know that PTTR bmw issue, Had 3 K bikes. One K bike tracked straight , the other 2 not so..

 

I think every bike even same brand models has his own personalitty, and its not a BMW thing.Had 5 africa twins 750(still have one), and every bike handled different.

 

Yes, there was not radio on 1150, and that was a little help, less top heavy.

 

Lets put it this way...i felt like this 1150 was my bike...It gave me confidence .The bike was flickable almost like the africa twin...The 1100 i tested was a pig. 

 

I go grab that 1150