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TEWKS

Impeach the Motherf _ _ _ _ _

Impeach the Motherf_ _ _ _ _ ! r.t.  

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TEWKS

There are still big things that need doing and President Trump has shown he'd have no problem working with the ringleaders of this debacle to make them happen. It's wrong (sorry for the harsh language :grin:) if you believe the Country is not doing very well under his leadership. I believe the commonsense thinkers among us will know if and when a line has been crossed and in my opinion, we haven't seen anything remotely close. I say let's give him the opportunity to continue and get good things accomplished.  

 

Feel free to speak your thoughts.

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Rinkydink

It’s hard to argue with the lowest unemployment rate across the board in almost 50 years. Incumbent Presidents with great economies as a rule just don’t lose reelection. IMHO the left knows they can’t beat Trump in 2020 so instead they will be able to say “You can’t vote for him, he’s been impeached.” Not removed from office mind you as the Senate won’t have the 67 votes required for removal. Democrats are scared sh—less. They have Biden, Warren, or Sanders. Not much of a choice. Interesting times. 

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realshelby
11 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

if you believe the Country is not doing very well under his leadership. 

 

The stock market is up. Employment is good. Middle and lower class America isn't showing much improvement. Our National Debt is killing this country. Trump added plenty to that. But I get that if you are wealthy and have big money in stock this is a good administration. 

 

The Poll question says "Scam to erase my 2016 vote". Propaganda reeks about that. Yes, Trump won the Electoral College. But more voters voted against Trump than for him. There are things history will show us at time goes by that may not look good to Trump followers. To this day I believe the Comey news of Clinton e-mails and possible issues with those ( no charges to date ) that conveniently came to light two weeks ahead of the election changed the course of the election. Should you believe the Russians had no influence over these e-mails coming to light, then you won't agree with me. 

 

I do think Russian influence may have elected Trump. But I also think I must stand behind the elected President. I do . But after listening to the hearings I can absolutely say I feel that Trump was trying to get the Ukraine government to  dig dirt on Biden to effect the upcoming election. Even though the smoke from the Russian election fires are still visible. But, I digress.

 

Never in my life have I seen this Government so chaotic. What if we had to go to war in this condition? Look at all the people that have left the Administration. Look at the problems over Women  that have surfaced and won't go away. Lies told one after another. 

 

Foreign Relations matter. It may take decades to fix what Trump is doing to those. 

 

That said, I don't think Impeachment is the route to take at this time. I think it adds to the tearing sound coming from the seams of the fabric of Democracy this administration is ripping apart. 

 

 

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TEWKS
29 minutes ago, realshelby said:

 

The Poll question says "Scam to erase my 2016 vote". Propaganda reeks about that. Yes, Trump won the Electoral College. But more voters voted against Trump than for him. 

No, didn't mean that as propaganda. I wanted him to win in 2016 and he did by the rules set forth in our constitution. I love the direction he has taken the country and I want that to continue. I do believe the lower and middle income Americans are doing better. Not everyone can become wealthy, (I realize you're not saying that) it's just how it is. And, I believe no human is perfect, even the President. 

 

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mickeym3

It pains me to think such a narcissist might be the better choice for America in 2020 but the Democratic field is a train wreck.  Trump’s demeanor and conduct is “unpresidential” as it gets but he’s the devil we know vs. the one that promises full term abortion, government run amok in our healthcare and a national debt that will continue to skyrocket.  Impeachment in the House is meaningless, it won’t change the election outcome one nit. 

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Living the Dream
31 minutes ago, Rinkydink said:

 IMHO the left knows they can’t beat Trump in 2020 so instead they will be able to say “You can’t vote for him, he’s been impeached.”

 

Not really, the senate must have a vote on whether he could hold office again, even if convicted by the Senate.  If they don't do the additional vote, he can run again.

 

I said to some of my neighbors waaaaay before Trump ran that a businessman needs to run for office.  Just so happens, one did, and I like the way he works, unorthodox, different, pissing everyone off and not an "appeaser".

 

Too many times the media takes his words as the "literal" rather than the spirit of the subject he is speaking about.   The record of accomplishments speaks for itself.

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roadscholar
9 hours ago, realshelby said:

 

I do think Russian influence may have elected Trump. 

 

It's just your opinion, no more.

 

9 hours ago, realshelby said:

 

But after listening to the hearings I can absolutely say I feel that Trump was trying to get the Ukraine government to  dig dirt on Biden to effect the upcoming election. 

 

So what and who effing cares, it's not a (truly) impeachable offense even though a few really crooked Dims have deployed a lot of smoke and mirrors trying to convince otherwise. Two reasons they think they can pull it off is they know the media will go along with the scam and make them look good no matter what, the other is they know most of their base aren't particularly capable of logical thought and believe anything they see on the telly. Fuggers are desperate, it’s all they’ve got.

 

You gotta be pretty naïve to think politicians or govt officials haven't been doing shit like that since the beginning of time. 

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Red

"Too many times the media takes his words as the "literal" rather than the spirit of the subject he is speaking about."

When you're the leader of the country with the largest economy and the most powerful military, words count.  Gutzy real estate tactics are no substitute for diplomacy and nurturing relationships with decades long allies and trading partners.  No country can get what it wants and needs all by itself.  It takes allies. This president is slowly but surely pissing everyone off so bad, we may just find ourselves alone should the shit ever hit the fan.  Are some of the areas he is tackling long past due for tackling.  Absolutely.  Is he pretty much mucking them all up.  Yes.  As for the 'other' party, that's a whole nuther rant.  Time for a 3rd party somewhere in between the donkey and the oliphant me thinks.

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Living the Dream
4 hours ago, Red said:

"Too many times the media takes his words as the "literal" rather than the spirit of the subject he is speaking about."

When you're the leader of the country with the largest economy and the most powerful military, words count.  Gutzy real estate tactics are no substitute for diplomacy and nurturing relationships with decades long allies and trading partners.  No country can get what it wants and needs all by itself.  It takes allies. This president is slowly but surely pissing everyone off so bad, we may just find ourselves alone should the shit ever hit the fan.  Are some of the areas he is tackling long past due for tackling.  Absolutely.  Is he pretty much mucking them all up.  Yes.  As for the 'other' party, that's a whole nuther rant.  Time for a 3rd party somewhere in between the donkey and the oliphant me thinks.

 

Doubtful, they may not like him or what he says, but THEY need us more than we need them.  As much as I hate to say, as I have participated in world events, we are the world's 911 and no matter what Trump says, will likely continue to be such and be called when disaster strikes or protection is needed.

 

As far as us getting what we want, just look at the recent NATO spending, why have WE supported more than our fair share for so long?  Now money is being pumped into it on a more equal basis,......of course you can argue it's to keep America out/get America out of it, but with the world's most powerful military, might just be a bad idea.

 

Additionally, the world will only need to put up with him for another five years (yes, I'm that confident).

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realshelby

Do you think the President is above the law? Do you think a sitting President cannot be indicted?

 

While I get the passion, and I expected and received criticism for what I wrote, remember that if you don't do YOUR OWN research into the facts you might just find you are on the wrong side of the truth. Blaming every one that does not agree with you cannot be always the correct path. 

 

Saying that the media is all corrupt and putting out Fake News....even now saying that about the most Trump biased of them all, Fox News. Think about how important our free and open media has been to the United States for centuries. It IS one the things that sets us apart. To attack that and everyone that does not kiss your ass isn't new. That is shown in History and THAT is what scares me about this President. 

 

 

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Living the Dream
1 minute ago, realshelby said:

Do you think the President is above the law? Do you think a sitting President cannot be indicted?

 

While I get the passion, and I expected and received criticism for what I wrote, remember that if you don't do YOUR OWN research into the facts you might just find you are on the wrong side of the truth. Blaming every one that does not agree with you cannot be always the correct path. 

 

Saying that the media is all corrupt and putting out Fake News....even now saying that about the most Trump biased of them all, Fox News. Think about how important our free and open media has been to the United States for centuries. It IS one the things that sets us apart. To attack that and everyone that does not kiss your ass isn't new. That is shown in History and THAT is what scares me about this President. 

 

 

 

Fox is biased, absolutely, but to say that ALL the outlets put out 100% truthful NEWS is ludicrous, the others are biased as well.  ALL media will push their agenda, whether that be the conservative side from Fox or the liberal side from ABC, NBC, CNN, CBS, MSNBC,.....do you see the picture?  A free press is great, if they actually report the freakin' news and not opinions/hearsays/SWAGs/estimates and BS.

 

Not one outlet simply states "this is what happened", no, they analyze "what happened" and interject "what they think was meant" by whatever was said/done.  Ya see, "simply what happened" ain't gonna sell advertisements, we must sensationalize things, otherwise, people won't tune to your channel and see the advertisements for stupid products.

 

Above the law,...nah, but I'm still waiting on which particular law the orange guy broke, specifically and proven.

 

 

 

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realshelby

Of course media can be biased. That is offset by how many outlets there are. But not all are going to deny facts.  I will BET that many that will be posting here don't go anywhere but their chosen 2 or 3 outlets for news. 

 

I more or less force myself to listen/read many different media outlets. Not every one of them are corrupt liers. Somewhere in there is the truth or some truth. 

 

The point I made about media is that they are not ALL wrong, biased, corrupt. 

 

If you believe everything Trump tweets is true about the media........and the people he once chose to help lead the country.......

 

We cannot allow those in our government elected or running for election to come under the influence of other nations or to accept help to win an election.

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lawnchairboy

"Our National Debt is killing this country."

 

Yes Sir.   The Trump administration has been a 100% total failure on fiscal sanity.  It has been a great disappointment. 

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Skywagon

This thread scares me.  I truly wish the MODERATOR's had not created this forum.  Yes I know I can block it. Yes I know many people have been asking for it for years, but I feel like I am watching many of the people I've grown to know and respect on this site becoming adversaries.  Some of the comments, IMHO have been borderline insulting to each other which is one of the covenants prohibited.

 

I am an avid fisherman and there is a national site similar to this for fishing.  It's been around for at least 2 decades I've been apart of.  Most recently it changed owners and it was opened up for healthy conversation political.  In less than a year the membership has shrunk from 20,000+ to just over 4000 now.  Some went off to form another fishing site unrestricted and it just a vitriol place for political fighting. It won't last much longer as sponsors are leaving. The amount of information and story telling has been changed irreparably.  Hundreds of folks have been permanently banned by the Mod's.

 

So.… since this forum is here...Please be nice...don't insult. Although I've only met a handful of you in person, I've met many more of you on this forum.  I'm grateful for this forum, I'm grateful for you as a cyber friend, and  the knowledge and the friendships created.

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Marty Hill

What a load of crap.  This isn't the site that Paul asked me to join.

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TEWKS

It's the biggest thing (pink elephant in the room) going on in our country at the moment. We've been given the opportunity to discuss it and in reading through the replies, I only see respectful disagreements. I may have been a bit of a wise ass in the way I worded one option but was not meant to offend.

 

We aren't going to agree on subjects like this but I haven't sensed an attack on anybody. Now, just wait till the oil poll opens up! :eek: :D

 

 

 

 

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Hosstage

I've only just recently joined this site. The technical discussions are quite interesting, as I find tech info interesting, the general motorcycle info with BMWs and other brands is appreciated. Even the social discussions on non-motorcycle related subjects are enjoyable and entertaining.

I had curiosity about how a political section would go, as I have never been part of a site that allowed it (I don't do Facebook or any other social media other than another motor site), and this section started up shortly after I joined.

I think there has been some interesting information here, and the discussions have mostly been civil, but in general nobody's mind has been changed, everybody has pretty strong opinions about their own side and are quite resistant to ideas that don't align with it, so I'm not really sure that this section is necessary, my opinion of course.

If someone says that they don't like a certain model of motorcycle, nobody takes it personally, they just accept it and move on.

But if someone says they don't like a certain candidate, well then the fight is on. They must be proven wrong. Not a great way to get along on a generally technical site.

It seems enough people have expressed concern and even a strong dislike for this section that the mods should consider ending it, as stated in their "mission statement" at the beginning of this section.

I have no horse in this fight, I don't even own a BMW (yet), just a third party observation. I would not like to see this site decline because I have a feeling I will need it in the future, I rode a Beemer for the first time a couple years ago in Europe for ten days, and I was smitten. I will have questions when I pull the trigger on one. I need this site to be here for me. (Not sure I fit in yet with the BMW crowd yet, I ride without a helmet or ATGATT most of the time, someone needs to set a bad example, but I'm trying to get better about it...)

These are my opinions of course, no disrespect meant to anybody here, I hope everyone gets through this and continues to enjoy this site.

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Living the Dream
3 hours ago, realshelby said:

Of course media can be biased. That is offset by how many outlets there are. But not all are going to deny facts.  I will BET that many that will be posting here don't go anywhere but their chosen 2 or 3 outlets for news. 

 

I more or less force myself to listen/read many different media outlets. Not every one of them are corrupt liers. Somewhere in there is the truth or some truth. 

 

The point I made about media is that they are not ALL wrong, biased, corrupt. 

 

If you believe everything Trump tweets is true about the media........and the people he once chose to help lead the country.......

 

We cannot allow those in our government elected or running for election to come under the influence of other nations or to accept help to win an election.

 

I generally pop up four news outlets, fox, cnn, al jazeera and a local.  All of them voice their stories/opinions/analysis in a different way.  There isn't any of the news outlets that I have seen that will simply report "what happened" without a spin. 

 

Just think, how many times have you heard the reporter state "vehicle accident, speed is suspected, alcohol suspected",.....or "bombing in atlanta, richard jewel is suspected", hmmm, not facts but guesses.  One leads you to believe that the little old lady driving the Yugo was lit and went fast and crashed, the other leads you to believe that richard jewel created the pipe bomb in atlanta, thus ruining the guys name and reputation.

 

Why cant they just report "bomb explodes more to follow", "vehicle accident, more to follow",.....no, they want to be the first to say "I told you so".

 

I kinda believe that since Trump is an outsider and not an appeaser, that he is targeted more heavily.  Politicians throughout time have likely done the same things he is being accused of but because they did it while part of the political circle, they get a pass (this is just my SWAG on things with nothing to back it)

 

31 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

This thread scares me.  I truly wish the MODERATOR's had not created this forum.  Yes I know I can block it. Yes I know many people have been asking for it for years, but I feel like I am watching many of the people I've grown to know and respect on this site becoming adversaries.  Some of the comments, IMHO have been borderline insulting to each other which is one of the covenants prohibited.

 

So.… since this forum is here...Please be nice...don't insult. Although I've only met a handful of you in person, I've met many more of you on this forum.  I'm grateful for this forum, I'm grateful for you as a cyber friend, and  the knowledge and the friendships created.

 

This isn't adversarial, it's point and counterpoint. 

 

Also, I was part of a very hardcore 4wheeling site  many years ago and it was anything goes, to include personal insults during any discussions.  Where the virtual blows were thrown, but you know the funny thing,.......when we all would meet at the various events, that "internet persona" that I argued with the previous night, would be the best person to hang out with on the trail and at the camp fires.  This happened on several occasions and not once did I hear, see, find out about anyone on that board that took the time to fly/drive across the country to get into fisticuffs over opposite views, nor were friendships lost over these opposing views, I honestly think friendships were made and strengthened.

 

That site has long since "softened" up due to becoming so popular that it is now at the whim of sponsorships.......the fun went away from it with the moderation of the conversations.

 

22 minutes ago, Marty Hill said:

What a load of crap.  This isn't the site that Paul asked me to join.

 

If you image.png.0a9ed8b0aba5e17167ac06101bdded6f.png you won't see it to reply to it to know what's going on so you won't be able to lay a certain belief on any member when you meet them.

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Hosstage
23 hours ago, TEWKS said:

No, didn't mean that as propaganda. I wanted him to win in 2016 and he did by the rules set forth in our constitution. I love the direction he has taken the country and I want that to continue. I do believe the lower and middle income Americans are doing better. Not everyone can become wealthy, (I realize you're not saying that) it's just how it is. And, I believe no human is perfect, even the President. 

 

 

No offense Tewks, but the way the poll was worded is the very definition of propaganda! Allowed here, it just needs to be owned...

 

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TEWKS

No offense taken, I'll own it and already admitted I was being a wise ass with that second poll choice.

 

propaganda

1, information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

 

It wasn't really misleading or biased. You have two choices, A) Impeach or B) No, don't impeach. I'm not trying to publicize or change anyone's view on the subject. I stated mine and welcomed anyone's comment on the subject.

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Hosstage
51 minutes ago, TEWKS said:

No offense taken, I'll own it and already admitted I was being a wise ass with that second poll choice.

 

propaganda

1, information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

 

It wasn't really misleading or biased. You have two choices, A) Impeach or B) No, don't impeach. I'm not trying to publicize or change anyone's view on the subject. I stated mine and welcomed anyone's comment on the subject.

 

I only want to see him get impeached so that I can put the newspaper headlining the impeachment on my garage wall next to Clinton's impeachment headline! 

For me it's not about the politics, it's about symmetry in my wall decorations!

I also get a kick out of how many people say Clinton was not impeached (of course he was, just not voted out), so I show them the picture of him on the front page with the big headline, "Impeached!"

They are confused but now educated.

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Living the Dream
39 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

 

I only want to see him get impeached so that I can put the newspaper headlining the impeachment on my garage wall next to Clinton's impeachment headline! 

For me it's not about the politics, it's about symmetry in my wall decorations!

 

 

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Paul De

tangent

4 hours ago, Hosstage said:

(Not sure I fit in yet with the BMW crowd yet, I ride without a helmet or ATGATT most of the time, someone needs to set a bad example, but I'm trying to get better about it...)

You will fit in just fine. 

 

On Topic

I for sure don't think that looking for help from another nation in your reelection bid is acceptable behavior.  In this political environment it might be that censure is all that can happen, but to do nothing and accepting foreign interference is a terrible outcome.  This behavior should never become normalized.

 

Try this exercise. Change the name Trump to Obama and change Ukraine to some Muslim country and then have the same relevant facts.   If your position would then change on should he be inpeached, or not, then you might want to check yourself about your biases.

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Living the Dream
49 minutes ago, Paul De said:

 

Try this exercise. Change the name Trump to Obama and change Ukraine to some Muslim country and then have the same relevant facts.   If your position would then change on should he be inpeached, or not, then you might want to check yourself about your biases.

 

You can't supposition that, of course, if the attempts were the same, than any rational person should say the same thing "conservative no impeach, liberal impeach"

 

Look at the title of the thread,.......hmmm, it comes from some nice lady that said that phrase, looooooong before this Ukraine issue came up, long before any phone call,......that should say something about the party doing this mess.

 

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beemerboy
On 12/7/2019 at 2:45 PM, realshelby said:

 

The stock market is up. Employment is good. Middle and lower class America isn't showing much improvement. Our National Debt is killing this country. Trump added plenty to that. But I get that if you are wealthy and have big money in stock this is a good administration. 

 

The Poll question says "Scam to erase my 2016 vote". Propaganda reeks about that. Yes, Trump won the Electoral College. But more voters voted against Trump than for him. There are things history will show us at time goes by that may not look good to Trump followers. To this day I believe the Comey news of Clinton e-mails and possible issues with those ( no charges to date ) that conveniently came to light two weeks ahead of the election changed the course of the election. Should you believe the Russians had no influence over these e-mails coming to light, then you won't agree with me. 

 

I do think Russian influence may have elected Trump. But I also think I must stand behind the elected President. I do . But after listening to the hearings I can absolutely say I feel that Trump was trying to get the Ukraine government to  dig dirt on Biden to effect the upcoming election. Even though the smoke from the Russian election fires are still visible. But, I digress.

 

Never in my life have I seen this Government so chaotic. What if we had to go to war in this condition? Look at all the people that have left the Administration. Look at the problems over Women  that have surfaced and won't go away. Lies told one after another. 

 

Foreign Relations matter. It may take decades to fix what Trump is doing to those. 

 

That said, I don't think Impeachment is the route to take at this time. I think it adds to the tearing sound coming from the seams of the fabric of Democracy this administration is ripping apart. 

 

 

i-zFvMQ7X-S.jpg

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realshelby

Beemerboy, this is a debate. I will do better than respond in the manner you did. Throwing vulgar insults isn't making a point.

 

The economy seems to be the point made when approving of Trump. I get that. But I tend to look over the horizon to see what the long term looks like. 

 

Yes, the tax cut made some people happy! I get a LOT more money each month in my pocket! BUT...I think the tax cut was a bad thing for the US of A!  Yes, I think we cut taxes for a bubble of  economy increase that is not sustainable. What it done to our National debt won't go away for a LONG time. I certainly think the tax restructure to keep corporations in the US instead of moving overseas was a very good "tax cut" as it puts us at a competitive level. 

 

Yet our GDP is not all that strong. Certainly not a mirror of the stock market! 

 

But the thing right now that tells me the economy is headed in a bad way is a standard that is proven. The trucking industry is laying off workers and trucking companies are going bankrupt. Not due to high fuel costs, or other operating costs. Due to lack of freight to haul. A most recent and very large example is [url=https://www.freightwaves.com/news/celadon-group-shuts-down-after-34-years]Celadon[/url] which just filed chapter 11. Look at recent major downturns in the economy and then check what the status of the trucking industry was preceding those events. 

 

 

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Paul De
13 hours ago, Living the Dream said:

 

You can't supposition that, of course, if the attempts were the same, than any rational person should say the same thing "conservative no impeach, liberal impeach"

Of course this supposition can be made, but the supposition actually need not be made.  Look at the 180 degrees of positions by pols and others with a platform on both sides.  When you look at their remarks on the Clinton impeachment and the current investigation to impeach Trump, I am gobsmacked that the level of hypocrisy and mendacity for this inquiry greatly exceeds what we saw during the Clinton impeachment .  The supposition is put forth simply as a tool to check if you are working from a bias of tribalism or reasoned principle.  If one concluded impeach, or not, in both cases great. I am surprised at the number of folks who flip flop with pretzel logic that is shameless.  

Quote

 

Look at the title of the thread,.......hmmm, it comes from some nice lady that said that phrase, looooooong before this Ukraine issue came up, long before any phone call,......that should say something about the party doing this mess.

 

I thought about how to respond to this and I have to respectfully call this one as deflection.  This is one congresswoman and she does not speak at large for anyone but her and her constituents and that comment was linked to Trumps administrations actions to obstruct justice as outlined in the Mueller investigation.  While there seems to be a common theme with this administration to embrace foreign interference in our elections, the Ukraine situation can stand on its own as justification for an impeachment inquiry.  Trump finds himself where he is today by his own words and actions.  He has only himself to blame.

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Living the Dream
10 minutes ago, Paul De said:

Of course this supposition can be made, but the supposition actually need not be made.  Look at the 180 degrees of positions by pols and others with a platform on both sides.  When you look at their remarks on the Clinton impeachment and the current investigation to impeach Trump, I am gobsmacked that the level of hypocrisy and mendacity for this inquiry greatly exceeds what we saw during the Clinton impeachment .  The supposition is put forth simply as a tool to check if you are working from a bias of tribalism or reasoned principle.  If one concluded impeach, or not, in both cases great. I am surprised at the number of folks who flip flop with pretzel logic that is shameless.

 

Ya, it's both sides of this.  Language is being churned by liberals condemning impeachment from the Clinton issue and by conservatives voicing "why to impeach Clinton".  But, "it was different then" :rolleyes::4316:

 

I thought about how to respond to this and I have to respectfully call this one as deflection.  This is one congresswoman and she does not speak at large for anyone but her and her constituents and that comment was linked to Trumps administrations actions to obstruct justice as outlined in the Mueller investigation.  While there seems to be a common theme with this administration to embrace of foreign interference in our elections, the Ukraine situation can stand on its own as justification for an impeachment inquiry.  Trump finds himself where he is today by his own words and actions.  He has only himself to blame.

 

She's one, yes, voicing it prior to defining evidence of obstruction (which cannot be ruled out, but cannot be ruled in).  But go see how many of the liberals were voicing their "why's to impeach" (without any evidence of), from inauguration to present.  Since '16, it's been a solid effort of "how to get the guy out of office".

 

They don't like the guy 'cause he's not a political player.....he's shaken their foundations and it worries the career politicians.

 

It is interesting and I look forward to following along to see how each side spins this gig.

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Paul De
35 minutes ago, Living the Dream said:

Since '16, it's been a solid effort of "how to get the guy out of office".

Sort of like when McConnell, the Minority Leader of the Senate, said their 2 year strategy was to block Obama's agenda at every turn and make him a one term president. While I get that politics ain't bean bag, what is being investigated about Trump is way more serious and concerns corruption, self dealing, obstruction of justice.  

 

 

 

 

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realshelby
12 minutes ago, Living the Dream said:

They don't like the guy 'cause he's not a political player.....he's shaken their foundations and it worries the career politicians.

 

It is interesting and I look forward to following along to see how each side spins this gig.

Up until about 3 months before the election I considered voting for Trump. 

 

In my opinion, the business world and movers and shakers of politics that effect business and industry were scared to death when the US elected a non White President. Fears were unfounded of course, but that is another story. What it did was put a hold on certain business moves. They were afraid of what this administration would bring, in new taxes, social policy ( doomed to bankrupt America ), and Federal regulations. 

 

Along comes Trump. "Don't worry about Federal Regulations"! We will remove those. We will fix things so the business world can run full speed. Don't worry about the banking laws that came after the 2007-2008 recession. We will drain the swamp, fix everything America is hampered by! Make America Great Again. Business bought in, capitol was spent, and employment continued to drop. Tax cut rushes the economy forward. All seems good for business. Much of that sounded good to me. Some didn't. Like the ploy to put Coal back in as a force in energy. I came from the coal business, I know it isn't coming back. Then there was the statements he made about McCain. From a man that somehow didn't have to serve in the military. But the clincher was the BS about the "Wall". I live in Texas. Walls don't do much at all. They just cut a hole through one and drove a truck through it recently. How did the story about Mexico paying for it turn out? There isn't nearly as much of a crime problem with border crossings as this administration insists.

 

I began wondering how and where all the information was coming from about the Clinton e-mails. Then you have Trump inviting Russian help in finding those e-mails.

Trump wasn't a politician. But a Political Player? A master at that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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TEWKS

Hot topic for sure, debating is an art form and a few of you guys are very good. I appreciate reading and learning from you! :thumbsup:

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Patallaire
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  • Marty Hill
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What a load of crap.  This isn't the site that Paul asked me to join.

Marty:  This is but one section on a great web site.  You can avoid it.  It is really nothing more than people voicing opinions and arguing them as though they are facts.  Based on what I have seen and even participated in, there are few facts presented.  Mostly re-gurgitations form various news sources and web sites.  It is truly harmless and a form of entertainment and a venting of various frustrations, none of which will or have changed anyone's opinion.  I doubt, and in this area I speak for myself, that anyone takes anyone else's response as seriously as it sounds.  The typewritten word is less forgiving and less interpretative then a face to face discussion.  So, while you are the elder statesmen of the forum, and greatly respected, please just take this with a grain of salt.  It passes the time on a dreary winters day. 

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eddd
2 hours ago, realshelby said:

Up until about 3 months before the election I considered voting for Trump. 

 

In my opinion, the business world and movers and shakers of politics that effect business and industry were scared to death when the US elected a non White President. Fears were unfounded of course, but that is another story. What it did was put a hold on certain business moves. They were afraid of what this administration would bring, in new taxes, social policy ( doomed to bankrupt America ), and Federal regulations. 

 

Along comes Trump. "Don't worry about Federal Regulations"! We will remove those. We will fix things so the business world can run full speed. Don't worry about the banking laws that came after the 2007-2008 recession. We will drain the swamp, fix everything America is hampered by! Make America Great Again. Business bought in, capitol was spent, and employment continued to drop. Tax cut rushes the economy forward. All seems good for business. Much of that sounded good to me. Some didn't. Like the ploy to put Coal back in as a force in energy. I came from the coal business, I know it isn't coming back. Then there was the statements he made about McCain. From a man that somehow didn't have to serve in the military. But the clincher was the BS about the "Wall". I live in Texas. Walls don't do much at all. They just cut a hole through one and drove a truck through it recently. How did the story about Mexico paying for it turn out? There isn't nearly as much of a crime problem with border crossings as this administration insists.

 

I began wondering how and where all the information was coming from about the Clinton e-mails. Then you have Trump inviting Russian help in finding those e-mails.

Trump wasn't a politician. But a Political Player? A master at that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well I never considered voting for Trump (or anyone for that matter since I live in a state where my vote doesn't matter one way or the other), but I agree with several other points. 

I lived and worked on the border with Mexico for 30 years.  Walls/fencing have a place in certain locations, generally close to a point of entry, but the wall that was built in south Texas was and still is ridiculous.  That border is a river.  There are places where Mexico is NORTH of the United States due to the meandering path of the river.  The straight wall cut people off from their own land. 

The complete nonsense about Mexico paying for the wall, coal coming back, draining the swamp, etc.  made it clear from the beginning that Trump is a big talker with no ideas or plans for how to actually accomplish any of these things.   

 

I'd write more but, I killed a spider earlier and dropped in the toilet, and I still have about a dozen flushes to go to get rid of the darn thing.

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eddd

 

 

I don't think anything positive can/will come from threads like this one.  The way the thread title and survey are worded starts everything off with a caustic and combative tone.

  
Just because it is this type of thread is now allowed doesn't mean posting something so divisive/polarizing is a good or useful thing to do.

 

This is my personal opinion not one of management.

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TEWKS

Not argumentative here Ed, but that tone was set by an elected official. My curiosity on the subject prompted me to ask this diverse group if it’s going to pass the smell test. :grin:

 

I'm sure it’s going to fall pretty close to the other controversial question asked on the upcoming election.

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Paul De

Haven't really seen this forum go off the rails into trolling and personal attacks and in fact have read a number of very cogent arguments on a number of topics.  The few times I read an entry that was on the edgy side, maybe even a little stepping on toes, it was also walked back to civility quickly.  If this forum was just people trolling each other, I would never come into it to read or respond.   Healthy debate is good if it remains constructive regardless if in the end it does not change ones opinion/position.  The win is understanding not convincing.

 

haha.  Now if this forum goes down the troll road I vote that its title change from Full Throttle to WFO...I'll know to stay the away then.

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realshelby

I watched most all of the hearings today. 

 

Some of the replies, from both sides, are  laughable.  

 

The old saying goes.....Better to shut up and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt!

 

What I really don't like to see is the animosity from the panel members. There will come a time when "your" side of the case can be presented. I say to both sides: "Be careful what statements you try to make and be able to back them up with facts."

 

Both Nixon and Clinton would likely have gotten off with a LOT less if they had told the truth from the start. 

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Hosstage

True, the cover up is almost always worse than the crime.

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Rinkydink

I also watched most of the hearings today. A kangaroo court to say the least. One side of the aisle running the show just as the Senate will do at a later date. Nothing substantial will come of this. A lot of money spent and the outcome will be minimal. It seems there is a ton of talk (on both sides) but nothing is ever accomplished. Hampsters on the wheel.
 

 I for one, respect the office of the President today just like I did for the previous one.


Nobody bitches about the electoral college process until their candidate loses. 

 

I know I’m rambling but I’m tired of high paid nimrods padding their egos at the American public’s expense. The DC beltway is one the the highest paid zip codes in the country. Sipping martinis and wondering...crisis, what crisis?

 

Consider me fed up

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Rinkydink
23 hours ago, realshelby said:

But the thing right now that tells me the economy is headed in a bad way is a standard that is proven. The trucking industry is laying off workers and trucking companies are going bankrupt. Not due to high fuel costs, or other operating costs. Due to lack of freight to haul. A most recent and very large example is [url=https://www.freightwaves.com/news/celadon-group-shuts-down-after-34-years]Celadon[/url] which just filed chapter 11.

 

 

 

Celadon’s woes couldn’t possibly have been the result of the securities fraud allegations filed against them. Two former company officials charged in the fraud scheme. They paid $42.2 million earlier this year for falsely reporting profits and assets. Conveniently left out of your linked article.  Hardly the President’s fault nor a sign of where the economy is headed. Business does a lot better when it plays by the rules. 

 

 

 

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roadscholar

Busted : )

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realshelby
1 hour ago, Rinkydink said:

 

 

 

Celadon’s woes couldn’t possibly have been the result of the securities fraud allegations filed against them. Two former company officials charged in the fraud scheme. They paid $42.2 million earlier this year for falsely reporting profits and assets. Conveniently left out of your linked article.  Hardly the President’s fault nor a sign of where the economy is headed. Business does a lot better when it plays by the rules. 

 

 

 

Wrong, not left out of article conveniently. I felt like that article was but one example handy to insert at the moment. Didn't want this to become a trucking industry thread, but when called out this is my response. I do find the comment about not the Presidents fault nor a sign of the economy to be downplayed to support the President and policies.  Especially since Trumps trade policies are a direct influence. Time will prove one of us correct.

Now for those that don't believe my first post about the trucking industry... https://www.wsj.com/articles/trucking-company-shutdowns-grow-as-shipping-market-cools-11567104495

If business does better playing by the rules, then so will this country when the President follows the laws. 

 

"About 640 trucking companies went bankrupt in the first half of the year, according to industry data from Broughton Capital LLC. That's more than triple the roughly 175 bankruptcies from the same period last year. ACT Research has said America's $800 billion trucking market entered a recession early this year"

 

 

 

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Rinkydink

I had no intention of calling anybody out with my post. Celadon was used as an example and being a voracious newspaper reader I had just read the article concerning the fraud charges. No desire whatsoever to start a pissing match with anyone. Just stating my opinion. I don’t want the Full Throttle section to cause any animosity between us BMW lovers. 👊

 


 

 

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TEWKS

On a different scale than what is being discussed regarding "trucking" here. My brother has (at last count) nine gravel haulers and he has work for more. Strange with all the online shopping that the trucking industry isn't booming for everyone.

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realshelby

The "trucking" industry doesn't have as much to do with your Amazon packages being delivered as it might seem. UPS, FedEx, USPS, and now Amazon have that market cornered. Sure, they use trucks to get packages from one point to the other.  They are still a factor in this, but as you say the internet sales boom is working in their favor. 

 

The real measure of the economy the trucking industry shows us is the delivery of material, components for manufacturing or assembly, then the delivery of those finished products to wholesalers and retailers. Who hauls the milk to market, the gasoline to consumers, the steel to the stamping plant? The trucking industry is a very good barometer of what the orders for goods are. Manufacturers cannot afford to make product without orders for it and allow it to sit for long in a warehouse. We are there now. Reduction in orders means a direct reduction in trucking numbers. Which is a dependable precursor of the economic numbers to come. 

 

This isn't to say that the Trump administration has not delivered very good employment rates and stock market values. Are the policies used to promote them sustainable?

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Rinkydink
5 hours ago, realshelby said:

This isn't to say that the Trump administration has not delivered very good employment rates and stock market values. Are the policies used to promote them sustainable?

Hopefully the new NAFTA will help to sustain the growth. 

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poodad
On 12/7/2019 at 7:22 PM, roadscholar said:

 

It's just your opinion, no more.

 

 

So what and who effing cares, it's not a (truly) impeachable offense even though a few really crooked Dims have deployed a lot of smoke and mirrors trying to convince otherwise. Two reasons they think they can pull it off is they know the media will go along with the scam and make them look good no matter what, the other is they know most of their base aren't particularly capable of logical thought and believe anything they see on the telly. Fuggers are desperate, it’s all they’ve got.

 

You gotta be pretty naïve to think politicians or govt officials haven't been doing shit like that since the beginning of time. 

 

You might want to read the Mueller report. He concludes that Russia did indeed interfere with the election. He also documented that the Trump campaign knew what was going on, knew that it was illegal, and knew they were benefiting from it. He stopped short of calling it criminal conspiracy because he could find no evidence that the Trump campaign was actively working with Russia to make things happen. However, he also said that the lack of said evidence was probably due to the administrations constant stonewalling of the investigation.

 

If you have evidence that politicians or government officials have been asking foreign governments to interfere with US elections, please bring it forth. Otherwise, saying this is somehow normal is just your opinion, no more.

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TEWKS
54 minutes ago, poodad said:

 

You might want to read the Mueller report.

 

I don't think Mr. Mueller read the Mueller report. 98% of it was beyond his purview. :rofl: I felt bad for him, they used the poor guy to take a political headshot at the President.

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roadscholar
4 hours ago, poodad said:

If you have evidence that politicians or government officials have been asking foreign governments to interfere with US elections, please bring it forth. Otherwise, saying this is somehow normal is just your opinion, no more.

 

I'll gladly admit everything I say and write is just my opinion unlike some of the folks around here trying to pass theirs off as fact, apparently yourself included. Mueller and his report were a joke (IMO : ) and though an intricate, well executed and devious scheme for two years we’ll never get back, in the end just another lame concoction by the blue team to take down the Prez.

 

Hell I don't have any proof of politicians meddling in our elections but as of today neither do you.  :)

 

 

 

     

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Rinkydink
14 minutes ago, roadscholar said:

     

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