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WOLF KOFI

1100RT 2000... SLOW TAKE OFF BETWEEN AND HIGH IDLE BETWEEN GEARS SHIFT AFTER REWIRE OF HALL SENSOR

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WOLF KOFI

Hi everyone....after rewiring my hall sensor and reinstalling it...my bike worked great again....then I noticed a great lost of power going up hills and high idle between shifts... BUT THE BIKE EVENTUALLY GETS UP TO STOP TOP GEAR SPEED.... 

 

SYMTOMS

1. ACCELERATION ISSUE 

2. HIGHER THEN NORMAL IDLE

3. AIR FILTER WAS WET BEFORE BUT DRIED AND BLOWED OUT WELL... VERY HARD TO FIND NEW AIRFILTER.

4.THE TANK HOSE WAS PLACED ON THE FUEL INJECTOR CAUSING IT TO SUCK SMALL AIR BUT WAS READJUSTED.

 

NEW HALL SENSOR WILL BE IN AFRICA TOMORROW... WONDERING IF I SHOULD PUT NEW HALL SENSOR ON OR CHECK FUEL INJECTION, THROTTLE BODIES AND AIR FLOW THE THE REWIRED ONE. 

 

Would reall appreciate your help on solving this.

 

 

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dirtrider
1 hour ago, WOLF KOFI said:

Hi everyone....after rewiring my hall sensor and reinstalling it...my bike worked great again....then I noticed a great lost of power going up hills and high idle between shifts... BUT THE BIKE EVENTUALLY GETS UP TO STOP TOP GEAR SPEED.... 

 

SYMTOMS

1. ACCELERATION ISSUE 

2. HIGHER THEN NORMAL IDLE

3. AIR FILTER WAS WET BEFORE BUT DRIED AND BLOWED OUT WELL... VERY HARD TO FIND NEW AIRFILTER.

4.THE TANK HOSE WAS PLACED ON THE FUEL INJECTOR CAUSING IT TO SUCK SMALL AIR BUT WAS READJUSTED.

 

NEW HALL SENSOR WILL BE IN AFRICA TOMORROW... WONDERING IF I SHOULD PUT NEW HALL SENSOR ON OR CHECK FUEL INJECTION, THROTTLE BODIES AND AIR FLOW THE THE REWIRED ONE. 

 

Would reall appreciate your help on solving this.

 

 

 

Morning  WOLF KOFI

 

Not really enough info to tell you anything decisive. 

 

Your problem(s)  could be a LOT of things, so you will need to do some investigation.

 

Start by verifying that both side throttle body cams start off together (start lifting off the idle stop screws together) & that both side TB  cams hit the wide open stops at the very same time.  (THIS is a very important verification & needs to be done & eliminated)

 

Next, try removing the air filter element, then put the cover back on, then ride the bike (once a paper filter gets wet it can swell up the paper & cause an air restriction even after the  element dries out).

 

If the filter got wet (how did it get wet?) -- It's possible the lower chamber in the air filter box is still full of water (there is a drain valve on the lower L/H rear of the air box, you might try draining that. (see picture below) 

 

Do a fuel return flow test--  to do that, disconnect the fuel return hose at the mid-hose connector, then plug off the hose running to the front, then place the fuel return hose coming from the rear into a container,,  then run the engine, or (jumper the fuel pump relay to make the pump run). You need to see a pencil sized stream of fuel coming out of the rear fuel return hose. If you don't have the return flow  then something is wrong inside the fuel tank (like split hose, or an internal leak, or???).  If your motorcycle has added quick disconnects then you will have to hold the little inner valve open inside the rear return hose quick disconnect to get any fuel return flow. 

 

Try riding with the CCP in the fuse box removed as a test (I don't know what country your 1100RT was built for but it might have an o2 sensor installed) removing the CCP will force it to disregard the o2 sensor input.  (if your bike has an o2 sensor then make sure the wire pig tail isn't hanging down on the hot exhaust system)

 

If you have access to a timing light  put it on one of the spark plug wires then shoot it into the timing holes & see where timing plate is set (at 1000 rpm's or under it should be sparking at (or close to) the (S) mark).

 

You can also do a quick test with the key-on (engine not running) by rotating the engine crankshaft then looking into the timing hole. You should hear the fuel pump come on just as the (OT) mark appears in the timing hole .

Try turning the engine both directions as the 1100 engine fuel pump timing is different than the 1150 engine fuel pump timing as one triggers the fuel-pump-run on the leading edge of the timing cup notch & the other engine triggers the fuel-pump-run on the trailing edge of the timing cup notch . ( I can't remember which one turns what way as I haven't done it in a long time now & I'm no where near my old timing notes) 

 

Make sure that you haven't knocked a spark plug wire loose from the ignition coil (if a wire is pulled partially out of the coil that can effect the engine power.

 

At engine idle do both front exhaust pipes get to about the same temperature? Or is one colder than the other (careful, don't burn your hand checking this). 

 

Lots more but this should get you started. 

 

4.THE TANK HOSE WAS PLACED ON THE FUEL INJECTOR CAUSING IT TO SUCK SMALL AIR BUT WAS READJUSTED. -- Can you explain this in more detail?

 

 

RAzpUHp.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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WOLF KOFI

 

Start by verifying that both side throttle body cams start off together (start lifting off the idle stop screws together) & that both side TB  cams hit the wide open stops at the very same time.  (THIS is a very important verification & needs to be done & eliminated)

 

HI DR

Thanks for helping Obolo again... it this the screw next to the yellow and green wire if so i turned both screws all the way in and backed them both out one full turn then obolo would not start, then i turned them out one more full turn obolo would not start

 

 

20191201_230420.jpg

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WOLF KOFI

Next, try removing the air filter element, then put the cover back on, then ride the bike (once a paper filter gets wet it can swell up the paper & cause an air restriction even after the  element dries out).

 

If the filter got wet (how did it get wet?) -- It's possible the lower chamber in the air filter box is still full of water (there is a drain valve on the lower L/H rear of the air box, you might try draining that. (see picture below) 

 

Ok...i noticed that there was thick sticky red brownish oil in the right throttle body so i cleaned the throttle body

In the left throttle body hose throttle body hose there was thick black oil do i cleaned it out as much as possible...

 

The filter got wet because the small boy meaning young man not know any better shot water up the air intake... 

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WOLF KOFI

If you have access to a timing light  put it on one of the spark plug wires then shoot it into the timing holes & see where timing plate is set (at 1000 rpm's or under it should be sparking at (or close to) the (S) mark).

Technology is limited here... so i would have to order from usa... if it is absolutely necessary...

I HONESTLY THINK THE BIKE WAS NEVER TIMED PROPERLY FROM THE LACK OF TECHNICAL KNOW HERE IN KENYA... PLEASE IF YOU COULD SHOOT ME A LINK ON NOW TO PROPERLY TIME THE BIKE WOTHOUT THE TOOLS I WOULD BE SO GREATFUL... The tester for the hall sensor will be here today i think...

 

 

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WOLF KOFI

At engine idle do both front exhaust pipes get to about the same temperature? Or is one colder than the other (careful, don't burn your hand checking this). 

 

I have noticed that when i choke obolo in the mornings only the right exhaust pipe gets red hot... maybe one is restricted somehow?

 

 

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Jim Moore

Hi. hey, you should  only leave the choke on for 30 seconds or so, just long enough for the engine to stabilize. 

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dirtrider
6 hours ago, WOLF KOFI said:

 

Start by verifying that both side throttle body cams start off together (start lifting off the idle stop screws together) & that both side TB  cams hit the wide open stops at the very same time.  (THIS is a very important verification & needs to be done & eliminated)

 

HI DR

Thanks for helping Obolo again... it this the screw next to the yellow and green wire if so i turned both screws all the way in and backed them both out one full turn then obolo would not start, then i turned them out one more full turn obolo would not start

 

 

 

 

Morning  WOLF KOFI

 

No, that is the BBS (Big Brass Screw)  that is used to adjust idle air flow past the closed throttle plate (by-pass air flow). That is basically used to fine tune the idle balance & set the curb idle  RPM. 

 

In most cases just set them to 1-1/2 turns out from lightly seated (that will be close) then you can use a manometer to do a final fine idle  balance from there (they usually run OK set to 1-1/2 turns out from lightly seated. 

 

What I was referring to in my post in red was to verify that the both side throttle body cams lift off the "idle stop screws" (see picture below) at the very same time when using the twist grip, then hit the wide open stops at the very same time when using the twist grip.  This needs to be very close for the engine to idle & run correctly.

 

If a throttle  cables are not correctly seated in their  adjusters then the initial  lift off the idle stop screws will be off as well as the  contacting of the WOT stops at the same time  will be way off (this needs to be checked & verified).

 

nmkj7qT.jpg

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WOLF KOFI

Sir hi.... ok im on it....

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dirtrider
5 hours ago, WOLF KOFI said:

At engine idle do both front exhaust pipes get to about the same temperature? Or is one colder than the other (careful, don't burn your hand checking this). 

 

I have noticed that when i choke obolo in the mornings only the right exhaust pipe gets red hot... maybe one is restricted somehow?

 

 

 

Morning  WOLF KOFI

 

This isn't correct, it usually indicates that one side is getting too much air or too little fuel. (check that both side throttle cables are fully & properly seated in their adjuster at the throttle bodies).  

 

tNnyWGn.jpg

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dirtrider
6 hours ago, WOLF KOFI said:

Next, try removing the air filter element, then put the cover back on, then ride the bike (once a paper filter gets wet it can swell up the paper & cause an air restriction even after the  element dries out).

 

If the filter got wet (how did it get wet?) -- It's possible the lower chamber in the air filter box is still full of water (there is a drain valve on the lower L/H rear of the air box, you might try draining that. (see picture below) 

 

Ok...i noticed that there was thick sticky red brownish oil in the right throttle body so i cleaned the throttle body

In the left throttle body hose throttle body hose there was thick black oil do i cleaned it out as much as possible...

 

The filter got wet because the small boy meaning young man not know any better shot water up the air intake... 

 

Morning  WOLF KOFI

 

You probably should drain the air box (just open the drain valve on L/H lower rear corner of air box)

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WOLF KOFI

Great call brother the right throttle body cable was not seated correctly.... i may have to fly you in ...hope you have some vacation time...lol

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WOLF KOFI

So so i will do this as soon i get home....thanks

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dirtrider
6 hours ago, WOLF KOFI said:

If you have access to a timing light  put it on one of the spark plug wires then shoot it into the timing holes & see where timing plate is set (at 1000 rpm's or under it should be sparking at (or close to) the (S) mark).

Technology is limited here... so i would have to order from usa... if it is absolutely necessary...

I HONESTLY THINK THE BIKE WAS NEVER TIMED PROPERLY FROM THE LACK OF TECHNICAL KNOW HERE IN KENYA... PLEASE IF YOU COULD SHOOT ME A LINK ON NOW TO PROPERLY TIME THE BIKE WOTHOUT THE TOOLS I WOULD BE SO GREATFUL... The tester for the hall sensor will be here today i think...

 

 

 

Morning  WOLF KOFI

 

It kind of depends on your timing box, but without a timing light,  IF you have a timing box then just remove the rubber plug on the timing hole, rotate engine until the (OT) is centered in the timing hole, then hook up timing box, then rotate the HES plate until the timing box LED goes off. 

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WOLF KOFI
11 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning  WOLF KOFI

 

It kind of depends on your timing box, but without a timing light,  IF you have a timing box then just remove the rubber plug on the timing hole, rotate engine until the (OT) is centered in the timing hole, then hook up timing box, then rotate the HES plate until the timing box LED goes off. 

Great call brother the right throttle body cable was not seated correctly.... i may have to fly you in ...hope you have some vacation time...lol

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WOLF KOFI

Start by verifying that both side throttle body cams start off together (start lifting off the idle stop screws together) & that both side TB  cams hit the wide open stops at the very same time.  (THIS is a very important verification & needs to be done & eliminated)

1. Ok me and my boys did alot of work today... it is 230 am sir and we are humbled by your help thus far...we are almost there....

2. We found a small stone in the throttle cable on the left and the right throttle body cable was not seated correctly... they are fixed now...

3. We found that you were correct about the two throttle screws being un even ....we turn them all the way in and adjusted the idle... obolo is back to his normal quiet  rumble... ONE THROTTLE BODY ON THE LEFT SIDE HAD A ORING STRETCHED OUTSIDE partially...causing a small air leak it is fixed now as well

 

 

Next, try removing the air filter element, then put the cover back on, then ride the bike (once a paper filter gets wet it can swell up the paper & cause an air restriction even after the  element dries out).

 

4. Air filter was taken out it is the origanal one but none are in country of course will ship in...

DO YOU HAVE NOTES ON HOW TO CREATE THE FILTER? until i get one from beemer bone yard?

 

If the filter got wet (how did it get wet?) -- It's possible the lower chamber in the air filter box is still full of water (there is a drain valve on the lower L/H rear of the air box, you might try draining that. (see picture below) 

5. WE FOUND OUT THAT SOME KIDS SABOTAGED OBOLO BY PUTTING OIL AND FUEL IN THE AIR INTAKE WHEN I TOOK THE PANELS OFF FOR PAINTING AND LEFT THE BIKE NAKED... we drained the bike like you said and it helped air flow...

Do a fuel return flow test--  to do that, disconnect the fuel return hose at the mid-hose connector, then plug off the hose running to the front, then place the fuel return hose coming from the rear into a container,,  then run the engine, or (jumper the fuel pump relay to make the pump run). You need to see a pencil sized stream of fuel coming out of the rear fuel return hose. If you don't have the return flow  then something is wrong inside the fuel tank (like split hose, or an internal leak, or???).  If your motorcycle has added quick disconnects then you will have to hold the little inner valve open inside the rear return hose quick disconnect to get any fuel return flow. 

6. This one please break it down barney style with some pics....

 

 

Try riding with the CCP in the fuse box removed as a test (I don't know what country your 1100RT was built for but it might have an o2 sensor installed) removing the CCP will force it to disregard the o2 sensor input.  (if your bike has an o2 sensor then make sure the wire pig tail isn't hanging down on the hot exhaust system)

7. CCP PLEASE SEND A PIC OF THAT ONE

 

 

If you have access to a timing light  put it on one of the spark plug wires then shoot it into the timing holes & see where timing plate is set (at 1000 rpm's or under it should be sparking at (or close to) the (S) mark).

 

You can also do a quick test with the key-on (engine not running) by rotating the engine crankshaft then looking into the timing hole. You should hear the fuel pump come on just as the (OT) mark appears in the timing hole .

Try turning the engine both directions as the 1100 engine fuel pump timing is different than the 1150 engine fuel pump timing as one triggers the fuel-pump-run on the leading edge of the timing cup notch & the other engine triggers the fuel-pump-run on the trailing edge of the timing cup notch . ( I can't remember which one turns what way as I haven't done it in a long time now & I'm no where near my old timing notes) 

8. As a side note my boys lost the ot hole plug, is this an issue? If so do you know how create one. 

 

Make sure that you haven't knocked a spark plug wire loose from the ignition coil (if a wire is pulled partially out of the coil that can effect the engine power.

9. Checked these... they are connected tightly....

At engine idle do both front exhaust pipes get to about the same temperature? Or is one colder than the other (careful, don't burn your hand checking this). 

10. Im very concerned about this one... at first the right side was turning red hot and the left side was cooler...now the left side gets red hot and the right side is cooler... is there some kind of restriction....

 

I SENT SOME PICS OF THE SYMPTOMS AND WHAT WE FOUND....

 

 

IN ALL I GLAD WE GOT OBOLO STARTING SMOOTH NOW LET GET THAT POWER BACK...

 

 

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dirtrider

 

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Evening WOLF KOFI

 

I don't have much time tonight so this will be short & I will try to address the major concerns.

 

 

Next, try removing the air filter element, then put the cover back on, then ride the bike (once a paper filter gets wet it can swell up the paper & cause an air restriction even after the  element dries out).

 

4. Air filter was taken out it is the origanal one but none are in country of course will ship in...

DO YOU HAVE NOTES ON HOW TO CREATE THE FILTER? until i get one from beemer bone yard?-- Not sure what to suggest, Maybe find an auto or tractor filter then modify it to fit. Get your bike running good without a filter then re-install your existing filter to see if chokes the engine power down  (might not be a real big restriction) 

 

 

If the filter got wet (how did it get wet?) -- It's possible the lower chamber in the air filter box is still full of water (there is a drain valve on the lower L/H rear of the air box, you might try draining that. (see picture below) 

5. WE FOUND OUT THAT SOME KIDS SABOTAGED OBOLO BY PUTTING OIL AND FUEL IN THE AIR INTAKE WHEN I TOOK THE PANELS OFF FOR PAINTING AND LEFT THE BIKE NAKED... we drained the bike like you said and it helped air flow...-- Good

 

 

Do a fuel return flow test--  to do that, disconnect the fuel return hose at the mid-hose connector, then plug off the hose running to the front, then place the fuel return hose coming from the rear into a container,,  then run the engine, or (jumper the fuel pump relay to make the pump run). You need to see a pencil sized stream of fuel coming out of the rear fuel return hose. If you don't have the return flow  then something is wrong inside the fuel tank (like split hose, or an internal leak, or???).  If your motorcycle has added quick disconnects then you will have to hold the little inner valve open inside the rear return hose quick disconnect to get any fuel return flow. 

6. This one please break it down barney style with some pics....-- I really don't have many pictures on this but can probably put someting together later I  don't have time tonight or early tomorrow (hopefully tomorrow afternoon US EST time).

 

 

Try riding with the CCP in the fuse box removed as a test (I don't know what country your 1100RT was built for but it might have an o2 sensor installed) removing the CCP will force it to disregard the o2 sensor input.  (if your bike has an o2 sensor then make sure the wire pig tail isn't hanging down on the hot exhaust system)

7. CCP PLEASE SEND A PIC OF THAT ONE -- I'll post a picture in new thread below this one so this one doesn't get too long.

 

 

If you have access to a timing light  put it on one of the spark plug wires then shoot it into the timing holes & see where timing plate is set (at 1000 rpm's or under it should be sparking at (or close to) the (S) mark).

 

You can also do a quick test with the key-on (engine not running) by rotating the engine crankshaft then looking into the timing hole. You should hear the fuel pump come on just as the (OT) mark appears in the timing hole .

Try turning the engine both directions as the 1100 engine fuel pump timing is different than the 1150 engine fuel pump timing as one triggers the fuel-pump-run on the leading edge of the timing cup notch & the other engine triggers the fuel-pump-run on the trailing edge of the timing cup notch . ( I can't remember which one turns what way as I haven't done it in a long time now & I'm no where near my old timing notes) 

8. As a side note my boys lost the ot hole plug, is this an issue? If so do you know how create one. -- Not a big deal as a lot of those got lost. Either leave the hole open or put come duct tape over the hole. Or find a rubber stopper (plug) that wil fit the hole.

 

Make sure that you haven't knocked a spark plug wire loose from the ignition coil (if a wire is pulled partially out of the coil that can effect the engine power.

9. Checked these... they are connected tightly.... -- Good 

 

 

At engine idle do both front exhaust pipes get to about the same temperature? Or is one colder than the other (careful, don't burn your hand checking this). 

10. Im very concerned about this one... at first the right side was turning red hot and the left side was cooler...now the left side gets red hot and the right side is cooler... is there some kind of restriction....-- Probably not  a restriction, sounds more like your cross side  throttle balance is not perfect. You will probably have to make a U tube manometer to balance the  throttle flow at idle & above idle. (we will get to this later as it will take it's own thread to cover the complexity)

 

I SENT SOME PICS OF THE SYMPTOMS AND WHAT WE FOUND.... -- I got them  

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dirtrider

CCP__

 

Your bike might or might not have a CCP (does it have an o2 sensor?)

 

If your bike has one (CCP) it will be as shown here.  

 

4y8z1Rw.jpg

 

__I won't be back on this site  until later tomorrow___

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dirtrider

Evening WOLF KOFI

 

The more I think about this the less I understand where you are at and  how it is running & performing now. 

 

You are trying to do WAY too many things at the same time without evaluating where you are at (operation wise).

 

You might not even need to run the fuel flow test if the bike rides out OK.  

 

You need to get your ignition system put back together then get your HES  timing  close to center. 

 

Then you POSITIVLY need to verify that the both side  Throttle Body cams are lifting off the idle stop screws at the very same time & contacting the wide open throttle stops at the very same time when using the twist grip (this is a must verification before moving on to other things). This should be close enough to ride the motorcycle.     

 

We need to get back to basics & do one thing at a time then evaluate what that single change accomplished. (I am having a difficult time keeping up with where you are at & how it is running)

 

We should probably keep each system change in it's own dedicate posting or it will get very confusing & something important will get missed. 

 

So start with getting the ignition system completed.

 

Then verify that  the  throttle body cams are opening evenly from idle stop screw to WOT stops. 

 

Once that is done we can work from there. 

 

  

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WOLF KOFI

OK STARTING FRESH...

 

1. THROTTLE BODY SCREWS... YES THEY BOTH COME OFF AT THE SAME TIME...

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WOLF KOFI

Awesome brother... hit me back when you can... i understand... will try this now gn... here it is 4am so good morning 

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