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Hati

Error 10111

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Hati

Now that I am getting on the top of maintenance on my '05, all the little issues generating various errors are sorted, except for 10111, that is a side stand switch fault according to my GS-911. Google refuses to be my friend on this forum or searching the net. The only reference I found was for an F800, not an RT. I never had engine stop issues with side stand up so I am at a bit of a loss as to what this fault could be.

 

Any ideas gents?

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Dann

The side stand switch should shut off the engine (Or prevent it from starting)  if it is deployed and the bike is not in neutral. (The clutch lever should override it if it's pulled in.)

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Corazon de Pollo

Three possibilities.

First, the fault has been there for a while and was never cleared from memory after a switch replacement. Very possible if you bought the bike used.

Second, you have some battery gremlin (loose terminal, damaged cell etc) that is causing the bike to throw random, unrelated codes.

Third, there's a very small crack in the switch casing letting water/moisture in. It can be solved by drying the switch throughly (a common hairdryer will do just fine) and sealing it again with hot-melt glue.

 

Hope this helped.

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dirtrider
19 hours ago, Hati said:

Now that I am getting on the top of maintenance on my '05, all the little issues generating various errors are sorted, except for 10111, that is a side stand switch fault according to my GS-911. Google refuses to be my friend on this forum or searching the net. The only reference I found was for an F800, not an RT. I never had engine stop issues with side stand up so I am at a bit of a loss as to what this fault could be.

 

Any ideas gents?

 

Morning Hati

 

That is a difficult thing to diagnose as the BMW 1200 side stand switch is somewhat complex in function. 

 

Unfortunately the stored code just tells you that there is (or was) a problem but doesn't tell you what caused it. 

 

Unlike older BMW motorcycles that use a (2) terminal side stand switch the 1200 hexhead uses a (3) terminal side stand switch with two of the (3) terminals used for actual "start-inhibit/ stand-down ride away protection" & the third one is used for some sort of switch/circuit checksum.

 

So the side stand switch can still work great for clutch-engaged start inhibit & for stand-down ride-away inhibit  but still trap a code if the ZFE isn't seeing the correct input on the checksum circuit. 

 

As a rule the problem is caused by a very loose side stand switch on the mounting pin (is your circlip still in place) or the stand is very loose in it's frame bracket (I have had to grind some off of the end of the side stand pivot spacer to tighten my stand).

 

On my 1200 GS-A I have had to use a thin shim washer to  take the slop out of the side stand switch on the pin.

 

You could even have a wire problem in the side stand switch circuit, or moisture in the side stand switch, or in the switch pigtail connector, or a terminal not making solid contact (if start inhibit, & stand down ride-away are OK now--  then 'if' the problem is in a wire, or terminal,  it would probably be in the center wire as the two outer wires are the main players in start-inhibit & stand-down  ride away protection).

 

Probably the place to start is to tighten up a loose side stand, verify the  switch circlip is in place, use a thin washer to shim the top of the side stand switch (between switch & circlip), unplug the switch pigtail connector & verify terminal integrity & that no moisture is in the connector, etc.

 

Then clear the code & ride the motorcycle to see if the trapped code returns.  

 

If it does return then you might need to try a new switch or dig deeper into the wire harness.  

 

You might also try asking your dealer to see if there was a service bulletin on your 2005 side stand switch. I vaguely recall seeing a service bulletin (can't remember if for the 05-06 RT, GS, or RT-P police bike) but I have looked in my service bulletins & can't seem to locate it (if I run across it I will post what it was in relation to but I can't post a BMW proprietary bulletin on a public forum).  

 

 

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Hati

Thanks for the suggestions gents. A few of those are already ruled out. These are:

 

  • fault was cleared several times and returned at recognised indicated mileages. By recognised I mean recent mileage I actually remember and remember having no issues with the bike's running.
  • Battery terminals are nice and tight.
  • Circlip still in place
  • Checked with dealer, they have no outstanding recalls on the bike's VIN

 

There is a lot of slop on the side stand, an inch or more at its foot plate. It is now on the top of my "fix-it" list. I only had a very brief look at the assembly, a more thorough look is needed to see how it can be tightened up. I changed the gearbox input/output seals and the balancer shaft seal recently, so the switch was disconnected at the harness with no visible wiring issues and no overtightened cable ties, but the switch itself was never apart. Might be a couple of weeks before I can do something about this though, but I will keep this thread updated.

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dirtrider
24 minutes ago, Hati said:

 

  • Checked with dealer, they have no outstanding recalls on the bike's VIN

 

 

 

Afternoon Hati

 

No recall will be found,  you need to have them check for a (service bulletin)  not  a recall. 

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dirtrider
1 hour ago, Hati said:

There is a lot of slop on the side stand, an inch or more at its foot plate. It is now on the top of my "fix-it" list. I only had a very brief look at the assembly, a more thorough look is needed to see how it can be tightened up. 

 

Afternoon Hati

 

There are couple of different side stand bolt/bushing configurations, one was a flathead & one was a round headed bolt. 

 

Most are the round headed bolt-- to tighten these just remove the switch, pivot bolt, & bushing. Then grind a little off the end of the bushing  (just a little, then if it still has play grind a little more  off & trial fit again).

 

Grinding on the bushing won't take the slop out until you add the shown washer to pull (& hold) the stand ears tighter together.

 

I usually set it pretty tight to begin with (needs a little foot help going up) as it will loosen up after a few deployments. 

 

Use a fairly thin washer on the pivot bolt  or the switch stud might be too short to get the circlip back on, might have to use a real thin washer between  the  switch & circlip or even leave the switch  washer off altogether. 

 

That bushing hole is to allow something to hook into it & pull the bushing out, I usually just use a pair of snap ring (split ring) pliers to grip the inside of the bushing then twist/pull it out. 

 

Makes a BIG difference in reducing stand wobble.

 

You will have to look at yours as the real early 1200RT's (I think) had a one piece bushing/bolt.  

 

  

FEsb6Mk.jpg

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Hati

Thanks, will do on all counts.

 

An edit later: well my timetable changed so I had a go at fixing the slop. I have the exact same setup as you DR but grinding the sleeve and adding a washer was not enough. I had to fabricate a larger but very thin washer or shim to be exact, that fitted between the stand's "ears" and the frame mounted bushing. Now the stand is like new, a little stiff at present but getting better with every deployment.

 

I had a look at the switch as well. Its operation feels ok and is reasonably clean. I have seen photos of a dismantled switch on one of the RT forums but I could not see how my switch could come apart without forcing it. Was going to clean it up and fill it with dielectric grease...

 

Cleared the fault code again, see what happens. I am open to suggestions how the switch can be dismantled without ruining it.

 

 

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dirtrider
19 hours ago, Hati said:

Thanks, will do on all counts.

 

An edit later: well my timetable changed so I had a go at fixing the slop. I have the exact same setup as you DR but grinding the sleeve and adding a washer was not enough. I had to fabricate a larger but very thin washer or shim to be exact, that fitted between the stand's "ears" and the frame mounted bushing. Now the stand is like new, a little stiff at present but getting better with every deployment.

 

I had a look at the switch as well. Its operation feels ok and is reasonably clean. I have seen photos of a dismantled switch on one of the RT forums but I could not see how my switch could come apart without forcing it. Was going to clean it up and fill it with dielectric grease...

 

Cleared the fault code again, see what happens. I am open to suggestions how the switch can be dismantled without ruining it.

 

 

 

Afternoon Hati

 

I haven't had one of those side stand switches apart (not even sure they will come apart).

 

The failed ones that I have seen usually have degraded rubber sealing so I just replace. I hate no-starts when on a trip or in the  middle  of nowhere. Easy enough to jumper if needed but still a pain when in a hurry)

 

The side stand switch  circuit is  a very low voltage low current discreet circuit so I don't think that I would try  using an insulating dialectic grease for fear of intermittent switch operation.

 

Let us know how that thin shim washer works out long term?  Thin shim washers in high load moving wear situations usually self destruct & fall out with use. 

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Hati

I am positive that at least some of the switches come apart, but not sure if it's reversible. Definitely seen a photo of it in pieces, that's how I know there are two switches inside, errr contact plates, and 3 little pins. Might take the time and go through my browsing history to see if I can find the web page.

 

The dielectric grease (https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/permatex-permatex-dielectric-grease-.33-oz/379868.html)  is conductive (carbon dust mixed in), safe to use even in logic switches, it just stops corrosion developing. Down this way the bikes have an easy life, not a lot of water to get into places and wreck havoc. Bit like California I guess.

 

The shim I made is basically a steel washer enlarged to go around the sleeve and filed down quite thin to fit. I think it'll last quite a while, the brass bush on the frame would wear first. The bike has over 51000 km on it now and this was the first fix of the side stand so I expect 15 to 20 thou before I need to replace the shim with a new one. This bike is a keeper for me so it won't be gone before the shim/bush wears out.

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dirtrider
33 minutes ago, Hati said:

I am positive that at least some of the switches come apart, but not sure if it's reversible. Definitely seen a photo of it in pieces, that's how I know there are two switches inside, errr contact plates, and 3 little pins. Might take the time and go through my browsing history to see if I can find the web page.

 

The dielectric grease (https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/permatex-permatex-dielectric-grease-.33-oz/379868.html)  is conductive (carbon dust mixed in), safe to use even in logic switches, it just stops corrosion developing. Down this way the bikes have an easy life, not a lot of water to get into places and wreck havoc. Bit like California I guess.

 

The shim I made is basically a steel washer enlarged to go around the sleeve and filed down quite thin to fit. I think it'll last quite a while, the brass bush on the frame would wear first. The bike has over 51000 km on it now and this was the first fix of the side stand so I expect 15 to 20 thou before I need to replace the shim with a new one. This bike is a keeper for me so it won't be gone before the shim/bush wears out.

 

Afternoon Hati

 

That dielectric grease shown is also for spark plug boot use, I doubt that contains a conductive substance as that would cause high voltage bleed down. 

 

I work in the auto industry & we never use a pure dialectic on low voltage low current  switch contact areas.  

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dirtrider
21 minutes ago, Hati said:

My mistake on terminology. The exact one I use is this: https://www.jaycar.com.au/conductive-carbon-grease-50g/p/NA1034

 

You are right, dielectric means insulating, assuming bit me again...

 

Afternoon Hati

 

That is very similar to what we use in low current power window switches.

 

That will work just great as long as the contacts are spaced far enough apart. If they are really close together then you might get some bleed-over & the ZFE will see that as a switching change.  (not real likely but possible).

 

If you can find that picture & know what the inside of the switch looks like then you probably don't need  to take it apart. 

 

Just find a spot on the switch housing that doesn't have anything important under it, then drill about a 1/8" shallow hole in the switch housing. Then flush the switch out with WD-40, allow it to dry real good, then squirt in some of that special grease. Then put a plug, RTV, or a closed-end 1/8" pop rivet in that hole to plug it. (no switch disaster by trying to take it apart) 

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Hati

Didn't find the pictures of the switch but found a YT video. Appears that the middle can be pushed out once the switch is off the stand.

 

 

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Hati

Problem solved. Just returned from a 1200 Km weekend away on the RT. There were no error codes logged on any of the RT's computers. Looks like the excessive slop I had on the side stand was allowing some movement on the switch that triggered the 10111 error. Happy days :D

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