Extreme high idle after charcoal canister delete.

[Kryton]

Hello fellow oilhead lovers. This is my first post and I am sorry for the lengthy question. I thank you in advance.  I have used the search function and came up with nothing similar to what is happening and my clymer manual doesn't have anything like it in the troubleshooting section. Here is what I have. It's a 2004 r1150rt with 40,000 miles on it. I am in the process of putting her back together after the input shaft spline lube during which time I decided to do the charcoal canister delete. I have removed the entire system for the delete as recommended and capped off the ports coming out of the bottom of both throttle bodies. The issue I am now having is that when I turn the bike on it instantly revs to 4500 to 5000 rpm. I feel like I am missing something here. The reason I performed the delete is the charcoal was desolving and leaking down into the tank. While I was replacing the filter I through in a new pump and injectors as well. I have gone back though and put the old injectors in to see if that changed anything and it did not. I have read what other people have done and watch the Chris Harris videos on you tube. What else should I be looking at? Thank you all. Again sorry for the long winded question? 

[Doctare]

Kryton

Don''t take this personally but have you checked to see that your throttle cables and throttle advance cable are seated properly?  Not just at the throttle and throttle bodies but the bowden box as well.

[Kryton]

Doctare, I don't take it personally. I have gone through the throttles and everything looks good. I have checked checked for binding and any other issues associated with the throttle and everything moves and releases the way it is supposed to. 

[kioolt]

Have you checked to see if when the twist grip is closed that at the throttle bodies the cable is against the stops?

[szurszewski]

20 minutes ago, kioolt said:

Have you checked to see if when the twist grip is closed that at the throttle bodies the cable is against the stops?

 

This would be my question as well. That’s a really high idle and it sounds like it’s getting “throttle input” - there should be a small amount of slack in the system when the throttle is closed. 
 

It’s easy for something in the cable throttle system to not be quite right particularly when you have had so much apart since the last time it was running. 
 

Perhaps if the bypass screws were

adjusted to the extreme to make up for a poor running condition before your repairs that could also be a part of the problem, but I don’t know that it would take the idle up that high on its own. 

[Still CAL]

You could try disconnecting the cables at the throttle bodies and see if it will idle. Maybe some pics? We might see something you've missed.

[Jim Moore]

Are the screws on the throttle bodies resting on the stops at idle? I'd bet not, which means the throttle cable is mis-routed or hanging up somewhere.

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, Kryton said:

Hello fellow oilhead lovers. This is my first post and I am sorry for the lengthy question. I thank you in advance.  I have used the search function and came up with nothing similar to what is happening and my clymer manual doesn't have anything like it in the troubleshooting section. Here is what I have. It's a 2004 r1150rt with 40,000 miles on it. I am in the process of putting her back together after the input shaft spline lube during which time I decided to do the charcoal canister delete. I have removed the entire system for the delete as recommended and capped off the ports coming out of the bottom of both throttle bodies. The issue I am now having is that when I turn the bike on it instantly revs to 4500 to 5000 rpm. I feel like I am missing something here. The reason I performed the delete is the charcoal was desolving and leaking down into the tank. While I was replacing the filter I through in a new pump and injectors as well. I have gone back though and put the old injectors in to see if that changed anything and it did not. I have read what other people have done and watch the Chris Harris videos on you tube. What else should I be looking at? Thank you all. Again sorry for the long winded question? 

 

Morning Kryton

 

The usual cause of an extremely high idle problem is too much fuel injected in one or both sides, or too much air flowing into the  L/H side through the throttle plate. 

 

Too much air flowing into the R/H side usually causes a dead cylinder & cold exhaust pipe at idle (unless it is also over fueling).

 

The L/H side throttle body controls the fueling as that side has the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) so if that side is held open slightly it causes a high idle RPM.

 

So look for  crossed fuel hoses, (they shouldn't cross), & look very closely for the fuel return hose quick disconnect not completely plugged together (causes high fuel pressure due to no fuel return)

 

Make sure that the L/H throttle body cam is FULLY & POSITIVLY resting on the idle stop screw & that the throttle cable on that side has some slack at idle.

 

Make sure that both side throttle body boots (between throttle body & cylinder head)  are fully seated, not pulled loose, or split. (easy to pull one loose when doing the work that you did).

 

Make sure that you didn't bump or move the TPS sensor on the L/H throttle body as that can increase fueling to both sides (if it looks to be moved post back & we can tell you how to re-adjust it).

 

Did you do a new  TPS re-learn after battery re-connect?  If not then you should do that. (if you didn't, or don't know how, then post back here & ask).  It's also in your riders manual under battery replace.

 

If all OK per above then make sure that the oil temperature sensor harness plug is fully & evenly plugged into the oil temperature sensor (not oil light wire but oil temp sensor wire by alternator).

 

Bottom line-- you need to have some (feeleable) cable slack in the throttle cables on both sides with throttle body cams are resting on the idle stop screws ( if you don't then find out why).

 

You need to verify that you have absolutely no air leaks in the intake boots between the throttle bodies & the cylinder heads. 

 

You need to have both the pressure side & return side fuel hoses properly connected to the correct mate & POSITIVLY clicked together.

 

You need to verify that the Motronic (fueling computer) is getting proper input from the oil temperature sensor.

 

Last, give the crankcase  oil a sniff as raw gasoline in the crankcase oil will get by piston rings & cause a high idle. 

 

The usual cause of a problem like yours is the L/H side throttle body held slightly open at idle as that increases both air flow & fuel flow (re-verify  throttle cable slack at idle)

 

 

[Kryton]

Here is what I found today. 

 

1) The throttle cables are all routed properly with no binding. 

 

2) The left throttle body appears to be open twice as far as the right. With the choke/cold start lever down.

 

3) The cable adjuster on the left is adjusted about 1/2 as far as the right.

 

4) The idle adjust screw on the left was adjusted less than on the right. About a 1/4 turn.

 

5) I tried the motronic reset with no change.

 

I ordered a throttle body syncronizer which will be here tomorrow. I figure I will start from scratch and resync the throttle bodies and see where that takes me. She was always a hard starting bike and smelt gaseous when I bought her about 4 years ago. I'm guessing that someone just kept adjusting to keep her running. Now with the fuel filter, pump, and injectors she needs to be readjusted. If that doesn't work I am thinking a new TPS. Any thoughts. Thanks again for all your help.

[Michaelr11]

Make sure you have free play on the throttle cables on both sides. There are plenty of videos that show the Oilhead throttle body sync process. It isn’t hard. Just keep in mind that you are doing two separate procedures that are only slightly connected. You adjust the idle with the big brass screws which control the air entering at idle. Then you are syncing the throttle cables and the butterflies opening with the throttle cables adjusters for running above idle.  The process is dependent on keeping some free play in the cables and no air leaks from elsewhere.

[Jim Moore]

Are the stop screws resting on the stops?

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Kryton said:

Here is what I found today. 

 

 

 

1) The throttle cables are all routed properly with no binding. -- How about having cable slack at idle. You MUST have some cable slack in the cables at the throttle bodies!!!!!!! If no cable slack then something is wrong, like an outer cable is not firmly seated down in the  cable adjuster. (you need to check for this)-- Are both side cables FULLY seated down inside the adjusters at the throttle bodies?

 

2) The left throttle body appears to be open twice as far as the right. With the choke/cold start lever down. --   If it ran OK before the work then something is not right (very possibly the L/H outer cable housing is not seated in the Throttle Body cable adjuster (you need to check for this). Of a cable is pulled partially out of the Bowden box.

 

3) The cable adjuster on the left is adjusted about 1/2 as far as the right.-- This is not right, especially with the throttle plate open father than the  R/H side. 

 

4) The idle adjust screw on the left was adjusted less than on the right. About a 1/4 turn. -- This doesn't really mean anything & definitely won't account for a 4500 RPM idle. 

 

5) I tried the motronic reset with no change. I didn't think it would but it should be done just to eliminate. 

 

I ordered a throttle body syncronizer which will be here tomorrow. I figure I will start from scratch and resync the throttle bodies and see where that takes me.-- You don't need a device to start from scratch as the synchronizer is for the final fine adjustments. You FIRST need to get both side Throttle Body throttle plates to be FULLY seated on the stop screws  (WITH some CABLE SLACK), then have both side throttle cams reach the wide open stops at the same time. THEN you can use a synchronizer. 

 

She was always a hard starting bike and smelt gaseous when I bought her about 4 years ago. I'm guessing that someone just kept adjusting to keep her running. -- Still doesn't make sense as you NOW have a very high idle RPM that you didn't have before. This points to tight throttle cables, or a cable pulled partially out of the Bowden box, or a cable not fully down into the TB adjuster. 

 

Now with the fuel filter, pump, and injectors she needs to be readjusted. If that doesn't work I am thinking a new TPS. Any thoughts.-- Still doesn't acount for a 4500 RPM idle now. Something is wrong with the cables or a cable is partially pulled out of it's seat. 

 

How much slack in the throttel cables just above the Throttel Bodies at idle???????  If none then find out WHY?

 

[dirtrider]

More___

 

 

 

[Kryton]

Found the issues. The right cable housing ferrule was not seated properly and the left throttle body cable was hanging up. Reset the right cable housing and worked the left side cable loose and now she idles perfectly. I want to thank everyone for the help. You guys are awesome. Time to finish putting her back together and get out for a test ride once the weather here in Colorado allows for it.