Cruise Control stopped working??

[bulletbill]

That is the question has been working fine the it stopped setting?

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, bulletbill said:

That is the question has been working fine the it stopped setting?

 

Afternoon bulletbill

 

We need more information__

 

What bike & model are you working with? 

 

Is the little cruise light lit by the handlebar control?

 

If a 1200 hexhead then you can try a home style cruise control test___

 

First)-  With the ignition switch OFF, switch on the cruise control.

 

Then)- Press and hold the SET button to the SET position, then turn on the Ignition switch (SET LIGHT should come on) 

 

Next)- Release the SET button (LIGHT THEN GOES OFF), move to RESET position (Resume) position (LIGHT SHOULD BE ON) 

 

Next)- Release the button (LIGHT SHOULD BE OFF) 

 

Next)- Switch OFF the cruise control switch (LIGHT SHOULD BE ON)

 

Next)- Switch the cruise control switch back to on (LIGHT SHOULD BE OFF) 

 

Next)- Close throttle. (LIGHT SHOULD BE ON), release throttle. (LIGHT GOES OFF)

 

Next)- Pull clutch lever (LIGHT ON), release clutch lever (LIGHT OFF) 

 

Next)- Pull front brake lever (LIGHT ON), release lever (LIGHT OFF) 

 

Next)- Push foot brake pedal (LIGHT ON), hold for 5 seconds (LIGHT SHOULD GO OFF), release foot brake pedal (LIGHT SHOULD BE ON)

 

Next)- Rotate rear wheel (LIGHT SHOULD GO OFF/ON) 

 

Last)-  Switch off ignition. 

[wbw6cos]

Evening D.R.___

 

Can that procedure be done with a GS-911?

[dirtrider]

26 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

Evening D.R.___

 

Can that procedure be done with a GS-911?

 

Evening  wbw6cos

 

I don't know as I haven't ever tried (the test as written above is so easy to run and it works), the GS-911 will show some cruise control failure codes. 

[wbw6cos]

Thank you.

[Dann]

Could be that the Clutch micro switch is faulty.

When it doesn't work, it sometimes disables the cruise control.

 

[Corazon de Pollo]

The two most obvious causes I can think of are:

1)There's a faulty/failing switch somewhere. Clutch as suggested by Dann is a good place to start. A faulty switch may be interpreted by the cruise control control module as applying the brakes, clutch etc and will result in cruise control disengaging or not engaging at all.

2)There's something wrong with the cruise control switch itself. It's rare, but these switches can fail. I have dismantled and reassembled a few switches and it's something I won't do anymore unless absolutely necessary so beware: blasting everything with contact cleaner and compressed air worked in some cases while in the others the problem was only solved by a second hand switch.

 

Best wishes to you.

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, Corazon de Pollo said:

The two most obvious causes I can think of are:

1)There's a faulty/failing switch somewhere. Clutch as suggested by Dann is a good place to start. A faulty switch may be interpreted by the cruise control control module as applying the brakes, clutch etc and will result in cruise control disengaging or not engaging at all.

2)There's something wrong with the cruise control switch itself. It's rare, but these switches can fail. I have dismantled and reassembled a few switches and it's something I won't do anymore unless absolutely necessary so beware: blasting everything with contact cleaner and compressed air worked in some cases while in the others the problem was only solved by a second hand switch.

 

Best wishes to you.

 

Morning Corazon de Pollo

 

Or, just run the above test instead of guessing_

[Indy Dave]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning Corazon de Pollo

 

Or, just run the above test instead of guessing_

As Dirtrider suggests, this is where to start. I've used this procedure more than once to successfully diagnose CC issues.

[Tri750]

A bent brake pedal from a recent tip over is very common as well . if the pedal pad is higher now, your foot could be just resting on the pedal enough to not allow the CC to set. 

[bulletbill]

Thanks every one I will be out of town till next week then I will run through the test outlined above.

 

 

[basilr]

So, DR, will the test procedure you set out tell you if you have a bad switch, or reset it if it isn't a bad switch, or something else?

[dirtrider]

16 hours ago, basilr said:

So, DR, will the test procedure you set out tell you if you have a bad switch, or reset it if it isn't a bad switch, or something else?

 

Morning basilr

 

It won't tell you that any one 'exact' part has failed but it will tell you where in the test sequence that it doesn't pass the test. Then  it is up to the person running the test to figure out what kept it from passing the test on that question.  

 

Lets use this part of the test as an example_____  Next)- Pull clutch lever (LIGHT ON), release clutch lever (LIGHT OFF) ___  If it passes all the tests above this point but fails the clutch lever pull test then you have to figure out if the clutch dual switch has failed, or if a wire going to the clutch dual switch has failed, of something else is causing it to not pass the clutch switch test.  

 

On the other hand IF it passes the___ Next)- Pull clutch lever (LIGHT ON), release clutch lever (LIGHT OFF) ___ then no need to waste time & energy chasing a bad clutch switch or cutch switch wire as this part of the system is working OK. 

 

Really not much  different than using a scan tool, it might give you a failure coded but it usually won't tell you exactly what caused the failure code to set.

 

 

[Highway41]

Just found this tread as my CC is now acting up.  When underway and setting the CC, the SET light will come on but immediately go off.  Hitting Resume does nothing.  Switching OFF and back ON and engaging SET sometimes works, usually not.  When CC does engage, it works until I engage any of the OFF inducing actions.  However, hitting the right blinker turns if off.  Hitting the left does not.  Very strange.  Have been careful where my toes and fingers are so am confident it's not an accidental touch.  Ran GS911 and got no error codes.  Will run DR's test routine shortly.

dirtrider - is there a preferred method to cleaning the switch?  

[dirtrider]

56 minutes ago, Highway41 said:

Just found this tread as my CC is now acting up.  When underway and setting the CC, the SET light will come on but immediately go off.  Hitting Resume does nothing.  Switching OFF and back ON and engaging SET sometimes works, usually not.  When CC does engage, it works until I engage any of the OFF inducing actions.  However, hitting the right blinker turns if off.  Hitting the left does not.  Very strange.  Have been careful where my toes and fingers are so am confident it's not an accidental touch.  Ran GS911 and got no error codes.  Will run DR's test routine shortly.

dirtrider - is there a preferred method to cleaning the switch?  

 

Afternoon Highway41

 

What are you working On/

 

Your signature line shows a 2013 1200RT but you are posting this in the hexhead forum. 

[Highway41]

Is a 2013 but switchgear looks the same.

[Indy Dave]

Bill - I've been having the same issue, but have yet to track it down. Mine seems more likely to be the switch as well - as if i push the on/off switch hard to the right when I activate the 'set' switch, the cruise will generally stay on. However, I have not dismissed the notion that my issue could easily be the throttle or foot brake CC cut off switches needing adjustment. My GS911 also finds no codes, so I wonder if the normal road bumps are causing enough movement to kick off the cruse due to a cut off switch needing a little more adjustment.

[Indy Dave]

Bill - Here's a video version of DirtRiders procedure.

 

 

[Highway41]

Thanks Dave, have printed the instructions and will view the video before I have at it.

Once engaged, bumps don't effect my CC.  It will stay on as long as I don't trigger the OFF or hit the right turn signal.  Since it started acting up, I have been careful of foot and hand placement and have ruled that out.

I've vacumned the switch with a shop vac to no avail.

Am very hesitant to use something like Carb Cleaner.

Believe it is due to miles (45K) and the road grime that gets into the switch.  Had the same problem with my 2010RT.

[Highway41]

PS - Video really helped me understand this as a diagnostic tool and not what I would expect riding such as touching the brakes turns out the SET light.

Best regards

[dirtrider]

39 minutes ago, Highway41 said:

Thanks Dave, have printed the instructions and will view the video before I have at it.

Once engaged, bumps don't effect my CC.  It will stay on as long as I don't trigger the OFF or hit the right turn signal.  Since it started acting up, I have been careful of foot and hand placement and have ruled that out.

I've vacumned the switch with a shop vac to no avail.

Am very hesitant to use something like Carb Cleaner.

Believe it is due to miles (45K) and the road grime that gets into the switch.  Had the same problem with my 2010RT.

 

Evening  Highway41

 

Just keep in mind that video is for the K bike so things are not the same as on your R bike.

 

Your 1200RT doesn't have front or rear brake micro switches (those are internal sensors inside the ABS module & function the cruise over the CAN system, your cruise has no fuse, your closed throttle cancel switch is different than shown in the video (might be more differences but that was what caught my eye).

 

On cleaning your cruise handlebar switch?, depends on if it is a contact type of the newer foil type (I can't remember what  switch your 2013 has).

 

A quick way to 'sometimes' diagnose  your post 2009 handlebar switch assembly is to carry a bottle of very cold water partially frozen with some unfrozen  water in the bottle.

 

Next time that you have a failure just pour some  cold water on the switch, if it starts working again then it is more than likely a switch issue.  

[Highway41]

Thanks dirtrider.  Knew it worked basically the same.  Didn't know about the "closed throttle cancel switch" so was not worried about that.  While it is working, the clutch and both brake applications will cancel the CC.  More interested in narrowing it down to the switchgear.

So no way to clean the switch beyond vacuum/pressure?

 

[dirtrider]

5 minutes ago, Highway41 said:

Thanks dirtrider.  Knew it worked basically the same.  Didn't know about the "closed throttle cancel switch" so was not worried about that.  While it is working, the clutch and both brake applications will cancel the CC.  More interested in narrowing it down to the switchgear.

So no way to clean the switch beyond vacuum/pressure?

 

 

Evening Highway41

 

I don't really know on cleaning the switch, if it is the old contact type then it can be cleaned, if it is the newer foil over/carbon trace type then you can ruin it trying to clean it. 

 

Personally I would try to verify that it IS the switch causing the problem  before trying to clean it. 

[Indy Dave]

I haven't tried this on my 2010 yet, but it did work on my wizzy 06 system. 

[Indy Dave]

@dirtrider Completed the test sequence and my bike failed to blink the set light on this test: Next)- Rotate rear wheel (LIGHT SHOULD GO OFF/ON) 

 

So hooked up GS911 (no faults) and it will register the rear wheel moving (bike on center stand, in first gear). So I'm not sure what to make of the test failure?

 

I also ran it through ABS testing, with no issues. HOWEVER, in looking at realtime ABS data, the pressure in rear wheel control circuit & Pressure in rear wheel wheel circuit does not changed with the front (linked) brake level engaged, staying at 200mbar. When I engage the only the rear brake lever, both pressures do change. But shouldn't the front lever engage the rear?

 

EDIT: If I turn the rear wheel with the front brake activated, the rear wheel wheel circuit does increase in pressure, while the rear wheel control circuit stays unchanged.

[dirtrider]

4 minutes ago, Indy Dave said:

@dirtrider Completed the test sequence and my bike failed to blink the set light on this test: Next)- Rotate rear wheel (LIGHT SHOULD GO OFF/ON) 

 

So hooked up GS911 (no faults) and it will register the rear wheel moving (bike on center stand, in first gear). So I'm not sure what to make of the test failure?

 

I also ran it through ABS testing, with no issues. HOWEVER, in looking at realtime ABS data, the pressure in rear wheel control circuit & Pressure in rear wheel wheel circuit does not changed with the front (linked) brake level engaged, staying at 200mbar. When I engage the only the rear brake lever, both pressures do change. But shouldn't the front lever engage the rear?

 

EDIT: If I turn the rear wheel with the front brake activated, the rear wheel wheel circuit does increase in pressure, while the rear wheel control circuit stays unchanged.

 

Evening  Indy Dave

 

That is sort of impossible so something isn't registering properly. You might post on the GS-911 forum as somebody there has probably run across this before.  (or call & ask). Ids you GS-911 fully updated?)

 

On your bike not passing the rear wheel spin (blink) test, I'm not sure what to make of that, it might mean nothing, or could be a CAN issue, or ?????.

 

Let me think on this one for a while. 

[Indy Dave]

Thanks - it is fully updated.

[dirtrider]

Evening Dave

 

First thought--  you mentioned above spinning the rear wheel with the engine?

 

\Re-try your blink test with key on, trans in neutral, slowly spinning rear wheel with your foot.

 

 

[Indy Dave]

Good Evening - Sorry I wasn't clear. I did the Cruise Control sequence test (twice) with the rear wheel spin failure with engine off, trans in neutral and spinning with my foot.

 

It was only after the failure that I hooked up the GS911 and tested further.

 

Just now, with the GS911 hooked up, I can spin he rear wheel with my foot and get a response from the rear wheel speed sensor. Repeated the Cruise Control test again, still no change during the rear wheel spin check with the engine off (the  'set' light stays on and does not blink).

[dirtrider]

Evening  Indy Dave

 

Well that might tell us something & might not.

 

It's possible that BMW slid an update into the post 2009 1220RT's that looks for both  front & rear wheel speed signals then averages them. (possible but I wouldn't bet my lunch money on it).

 

Last bike that I tested with the spin method was a 2009 1200RT & it worked good on that bike.

 

Is your side stand up?

 

Does everything else test out OK per the test?

 

 

[Indy Dave]

Hi DR - Everything else tested OK and the side stand is up!

[dirtrider]

6 minutes ago, Indy Dave said:

Hi DR - Everything else tested OK and the side stand is up!

 

Evening  Indy Dave

 

You might try the blink test again but try moving the switch the very same way that you had to do to get the cruise to work while riding.

 

We probably need to get someone with a 2010 1200Rt to run the blink test to see if it still works on the post 2009 bikes.

 

Your initial complaint sort of pointed to a switch (throttle, clutch, on/off, set, etc) so that doesn't fit with a wheel speed problem but that is just a guess based on (not very much).  

[Indy Dave]

Hi DR - Once I finished the CC tinkering, I did adjust the play in the throttle - testing in the garage, but no road test. Following your last message, I went out for a spin around the block, and the cruise works normally now - no tricks needed to get it to engage and stay engaged, So that seems to be all well and good now - so although the bike passed all of the tests except the last, I'm guessing my issue was related to the excessive throttle play that existed.

 

Hopefully @Highway41 will get a chance to test the cruise sequence and confirm or deny that the last rear wheel test works on the 2010-2013's. The point, one may be wondering, is that if the last test works on the 2010-2013, it mat provide a hint to the other intermittent running issues I have,

[Highway41]

Afraid I'm not going to be much help here.

Ran the CC diagnostic twice on my 2013.  The SET light did come on when I switched the bike on with the SET button pressed.  The SET light went off when I released the SET button.  Pushed the RESUME button to the back and the light did not come on.  Wiggling the RESUME button would make the SET light blink on/off.  All the other test (throttle, clutch, brake lever, brake pedal, spinning wheel), the SET light did not come on at all.  Can hear the micro switches clicking on the clutch and brake pedal but not the brake lever.

Sounds like my problem is the switchgear.

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, Highway41 said:

Afraid I'm not going to be much help here.

Ran the CC diagnostic twice on my 2013.  The SET light did come on when I switched the bike on with the SET button pressed.  The SET light went off when I released the SET button.  Pushed the RESUME button to the back and the light did not come on.  Wiggling the RESUME button would make the SET light blink on/off.  All the other test (throttle, clutch, brake lever, brake pedal, spinning wheel), the SET light did not come on at all.  Can hear the micro switches clicking on the clutch and brake pedal but not the brake lever.

Sounds like my problem is the switchgear.

 

Evening Highway41

 

That does sort of sound like your switch is causing the problems. 

[Indy Dave]

Just to run my piece of this to ground. The throttle cable slack adjustment as resolved my issue - specifically, the throttle return was causing the issue.

 

Emails with Hexcode (GS911) indicate that the GS911 is reading the wheel cylinder pressures correctly - as verified by their test GS.

 

Bill, any luck sourcing another cruise switch?

 

Thanks again DR and Bill.

 

 

[Highway41]

Bill, any luck sourcing another cruise switch?

 

Talked to the SM who said my extended warranty would cover it.  This is the second left hand switch replacement.  Will check throttle return at 48K service which is in a couple months.  Still think it is the switch as the Resume does not work.