Would you buy an Air Bag Vest for $125??

[Lowndes]

Several years back I read an excellent review by Moshe Levy on "Helite Turtle Airbag Hi-Viz Vest Review - Moto Mouth Moshe Episode #11" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI7iFZtuf70).   It got me to thinking that maybe I should "invest" in another piece of safety gear but the entry price was $650 or more.   I decided it was too much as my personal net worth including sentimental value did't quite amount to that much.  About a year later I found an "air bag vest" for $210 on Alibaba and ordered it.  I'll call that vest "Ver 1".  The brand name is DUHAN, and it looked like several others with European  names at three times the price.  I wore it all year in 2018.  It was well made, it has lots of "features", it made sense, and it made me feel like I had sense.  It was also HOT.  Sweltering hot, very little ventilation.  

 

Earlier this year I saw another Duhan air bag vest with much better venting and hi-viz yellow with reflective striping.  Only $230 on Alibaba and I ordered it.  It is MUCH better in almost every way except pockets.  I has none but that's OK.  It was MUCH more comfortable to ride in, in hot weather.  I'll call that one "Ver 2".

 

Well, then a couple of weeks ago I saw another air vest with a very high "neck brace" inflation collar, even better ventilation that made even more sense and was only $125.  How could I refuse??  It arrived today.  It will be "Ver 3".

 

Not everyone and zero Harley riders will be interested in an air bag vest (until they are half way over the hood of a car, God forbid).  But for $125, it is affordable.  I know you're thinking I'm almost to the $650 level, but then I have three.

 

So what are the differences, are they any good, and how does Alibaba work??  

 

For those who have never used it, Alibaba works kinda like Amazon but the website is not nearly as refined. I've used it for various purchases for the last 10-12 years. Then there is the translation issue which can leave you wondering.  Some people are worried about "security" with their credit card.  I can only say that I've not had any problems with that - so far.  Then there is the wait.  It normally takes 2 or 3 or 4 weeks for the goods to arrive. It does seem to be getting better now.  Just getting out of China takes the longest time. They have tracking which works ok, but again, not quite as refined as even our USPS tracking.  Just remember; BE PATIENT.

 

Ver 1:   https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960449685.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2d214cb8fji6v6&algo_pvid=92fbb5bc-25a7-47a5-a47a-51e5fdc0e957&algo_expid=92fbb5bc-25a7-47a5-a47a-51e5fdc0e957-10&btsid=24c6a2da-9d08-4d1c-a582-8b638d808eb6&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_52   Ordered 3-3-18, arrived on ??

 

Ver 2:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32998715054.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6bac4c4dwIILc0  Ordered on 7-7-19, arrived on 8-5-19.

            An almost identical vest with a different name is available now from a different vendor for $117: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976637823.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000060.1.4c5e1390HKjFm9&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.146401.0&scm_id=1007.13339.146401.0&scm-url=1007.13339.146401.0&pvid=c6e2ecea-7a3f-40a9-89bb-f3226b75aeca

 

Ver 3:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000099011374.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2d214cb8fji6v6&algo_pvid=92fbb5bc-25a7-47a5-a47a-51e5fdc0e957&algo_expid=92fbb5bc-25a7-47a5-a47a-51e5fdc0e957-1&btsid=24c6a2da-9d08-4d1c-a582-8b638d808eb6&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_52   Ordered on 9-26-19, arrived on 10-11-19.

 

All the above vests I have look to be made very well and with very good materials and workmanship.  I have no problems with any of these so far.  For my close-up pics of all three, see below.

 

Now for the BEWARES.

 

Air freight has a problem shipping the CO2 cylinders out of China.  They seem to be shipping the cylinders separately from the vests and by a different carrier now.  I have also ordered spares and they arrive ok, too, but the cylinders seem to take longer than the vests.

 

There are MANY different sizes and shapes of these small CO2 cylinders.  They are rated by capacity, sometimes  in "CC" (cubic centimeters) and sometimes in "G" (grams) of CO2 for some reason.  There are THREE (3) standard thread sizes normally found on these cylinders:  3/8" NPT, 1/2" NPT, and 5/8" NPT.  "National Pipe Thread" is a tapered thread used in "plumbing" type uses.  Ver 1 and 2 vests above use different capacity and dimensions cylinders with 5/8" NPT threads.  Ver 3 uses a 1/2" NPT.  Before you order any spare cylinders make sure you are ordering the right capacity, dimension, and thread size.  They are sold domestically by many vendors, Amazon to Bass Pro.  

 

These are the three cylinders used in these vests, from L to R; Ver 1, Ver 3, Ver 2:

 

 

 

I took several shots of each vest with close-ups of some of the details of each but for some reason can't post the links here (used up my allotment??) so I'll try in another post.

 

 

 

[Lowndes]

Figured out what I was doing wrong.

 

The links to my pics are:

 

Ver 1 vest:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/eBzDNkn41QjiSKiF9

 

Ver 2 vest:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/KXYirZemfy5bb2MVA

 

Ver 3 vest:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/vgspuziWnEh1Kg9y6

[lkraus]

We can't decide until we hear your post-accident reviews! 

 

 

[Lowndes]

Please do not hold your breath.

 

For an accident report, see https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/91474-helite-airbag-vest/  , post #8 by Mike the Moderator telling about an accident his son had at the Un in Lake George this year while wearing a Helite airbag vest.  Scary.

 

Right after that is a report by Sirby, too.

[realshelby]

We know the Helite and others perform as promised in crash situations. 

 

The question is: Will the $125 Chinese knock off version perform when put to the crash test?

[szurszewski]

I was wondering the same. I understand there are provisions to “test” your airbag vest and then have it repacked or whatever. Is this possible with any of yours? Or perhaps you’ve “pulled the pin” on one if the older versions now?

[Carlisja]

On one hand the Chinese knock-Off is probably an exact copy of the Hit-Air Two.  It is probably made in the exact same factory using the exact same materials and processes.  Each vest sold for on that factory is a test of $650 from Hit-Air.  $125 of pure profit to the seller while Hit-Air is making about $180 on each vest sold, from which it pays its employees.   The vest would not exist at all without the original companies.  Why would any honest, ethical person support the pirates?

[Red]

" The vest would not exist at all without the original companies.  Why would any honest, ethical person support the pirates?"  My sentiments exactly.

[Lowndes]

16 hours ago, szurszewski said:

I was wondering the same. I understand there are provisions to “test” your airbag vest and then have it repacked or whatever. Is this possible with any of yours? Or perhaps you’ve “pulled the pin” on one if the older versions now?

 

Szurszewski,

 

I have wondered the same thing, of course, so I partially disassembled the "firing pin" mechanism on Ver 3 (pics are in my Ver 3 pics post above) for a look-see. 

 

All three cylinder mounting and activation mechanisms are very similar in design but different in construction.  It is a very simple design, not much could go wrong.  The spring is held in compression ("the hammer is cocked" at ALL times) by the ball on the end of the lanyard.  When the lanyard is yanked out, the spring is released and the pin pierces the seal in the end of the CO2 cylinder which releases the CO2 gas directly into the tube bladder in the vest.   It supposedly takes a very stiff yank to activate, not just getting off and forgetting to disconnect.  I've done that many times with no "activation" yet.

 

The possible ways I can foresee a failure are:

1) forget to connect the lanyard (I have done this many times myself but have devised a simple "reminder")

2) the lanyard breaks instead of pulling the ball out - I can imagine a simple test for this. 

3) the pin fails to puncture the CO2 cylinder - a simple test should resolve this.

4) the CO2 cylinder is too large and over-inflates the air bag bladder bursting it - again, a simple test will prove this one way or another.

5) a total mechanical or design flaw failure such as the CO2 mounting and activation mechanism tears away from the vest or ruptures (the simple test again)

 

Did I miss anything??

 

[EvilTwin]

I looked at the pics and links.  They look like they are reasonably well made.  And it's not like this type of inflation technology hasn't been around for a while, just think about inflatable life vests for boats.  The thing is though,  is it really going to work as well as hoped when its really needed.  There is no public company that can attest to what types of testing have been performed to make sure it does protect you.  That may be why a company like Helite charges so much for their vests, so they can sure the vest will perform and have deep enough pockets in case it doesnt.  Neither of those would be the case with some no name vest from China.  I also saw advertisements for knock off helmets for around 50 bucks.  Looks good, cheap, lets buy it...

 

But the thing is, if you are in an accident, the amount of money saved on a cheap vest or helmet is minuscule compared to  the medical bills that can happen even after a minor accident.  But this is an old argument.

 

Have you ever triggered one of the vests to see how it works?  This would probably be a good idea for a video for one of the you tubers out there to see these might really work in a spill.

Spoiler

 

 

[Lowndes]

10 hours ago, Carlisja said:

On one hand the Chinese knock-Off is probably an exact copy of the Hit-Air Two.  It is probably made in the exact same factory using the exact same materials and processes.  Each vest sold for on that factory is a test of $650 from Hit-Air.  $125 of pure profit to the seller while Hit-Air is making about $180 on each vest sold, from which it pays its employees.   The vest would not exist at all without the original companies.  Why would any honest, ethical person support the pirates?

 

8 hours ago, Red said:

" The vest would not exist at all without the original companies.  Why would any honest, ethical person support the pirates?"  My sentiments exactly.

 

Carlisja and Red,

 

"Pirates" means illegal selling of patented product.  If you know of any patent infringements or complaints here, please let us all know.  Otherwise you may be "jumping to conclusion." ("Red, Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.   Not Confucius")

 

Another possibility in the design, manufacturing, marketing, and sales of these vests is that the "brand name" (or European vendors) are having their vests made in the same Chinese factories and are selling them with the European names on them (private labeling), a very common and very legal practice in every market. 

 

I would really like to compare the Helite and Hit-air side by side with these vests to compare them in detail.  Does anyone know where the Helite and Hit-air vests are actually manufactured??

 

I have NO vested interest in these products, only in my health and pocketbook.  Also, I have no love of the chicoms.  So, PLEASE, PLEASE , PLEASE purchase whatever, from whomever, and pay any price you desire.  I'm just offering my observations on an alternative and more affordable safety item.

 

I know several guys that ride late model BMW "GS" bikes and put Shinko tires on them with zero complaints.  I prefer Michelin PR4's.

 

SAFE TRAVELS!!

 

 

 

 

[Lowndes]

1 hour ago, EvilTwin said:

I looked at the pics and links.  They look like they are reasonably well made.  And it's not like this type of inflation technology hasn't been around for a while, just think about inflatable life vests for boats.  The thing is though,  is it really going to work as well as hoped when its really needed.  There is no public company that can attest to what types of testing have been performed to make sure it does protect you.  That may be why a company like Helite charges so much for their vests, so they can sure the vest will perform and have deep enough pockets in case it doesnt.  Neither of those would be the case with some no name vest from China.  I also saw advertisements for knock off helmets for around 50 bucks.  Looks good, cheap, lets buy it...

 

But the thing is, if you are in an accident, the amount of money saved on a cheap vest or helmet is minuscule compared to  the medical bills that can happen even after a minor accident.  But this is an old argument.

 

Have you ever triggered one of the vests to see how it works?  This would probably be a good idea for a video for one of the you tubers out there to see these might really work in a spill.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Bob,

 

I agree about the lack of standardized testing.  Also, on the higher prices of the Helite and Hit-air, a component of the markup is liability insurance for them.  

 

As far as a video of an inflation, I'm considering doing just that for my own peace-of-mind and "popular demand"!!

 

Trouble is, I'm not that handy with video recording like Moshe.  Also, it will require two people, a yanker and a yankee, and I really don't want to be accused of either. 

 

Any ideas??

[gordiet]

$650.00 dollars is not much when it comes to my still being alive after an accident. HeLite is manufactured in France and not in China and that is for sure. They are the company that provides the vest for the GP riders now so I’m sure there testing Is significant. I’ll stick with my HeLite thank you.

GT 

 

[realshelby]

The actual firing mechanism is one thing. That should be simple to make work correctly...as complicated design usually means a failure!

 

My biggest concern would be the exact inflated pressure, how long that is maintained, and will the seams and material withstand the same abrasion and pressure the name brand unit has been tested to?  Just like in lesser quality jackets and pants where a common failure point is the zippers and seams coming apart in an accident.

 

I cannot say this is a copy of another "brand name" airbag vest. Not without some research. So I for sure cannot say it is infringing on any copyright or patent. But I can say Alibaba has no morals at all when it comes to selling products that are outright copies of designs of other manufacturers. 

[Lowndes]

 

7 minutes ago, realshelby said:

The actual firing mechanism is one thing. That should be simple to make work correctly...as complicated design usually means a failure!

 

My biggest concern would be the exact inflated pressure, how long that is maintained, and will the seams and material withstand the same abrasion and pressure the name brand unit has been tested to?  Just like in lesser quality jackets and pants where a common failure point is the zippers and seams coming apart in an accident.

 

I cannot say this is a copy of another "brand name" airbag vest. Not without some research. So I for sure cannot say it is infringing on any copyright or patent. But I can say Alibaba has no morals at all when it comes to selling products that are outright copies of designs of other manufacturers. 

 

Realshelby,

 

I totally agree on all your points.  

 

I wish there was a standard test for all of these type devices and I'd bet there will be one eventually.  I also hope it covers all the points you describe plus a few more like lanyard strength, etc.

 

I would expand the statement about Alibaba to include ALL Chinese manufacturers, Tiawan being the exception if you include it as Chinese.  There may be some manufacturers with "morals" but I wouldn't count on it.  I do know from firsthand experience that there are some very good quality products all the way to some very poor quality products coming from China.  The difference seems to be ; 1) the QC; and 2) what the customer is willing to accept.

[Carlisja]

My son went down at 45 mph while wearing a Helite.  No injury.  Reached the canister, taped up the broken bike parts are rode on.   I will stick with Helite.

[gordiet]

On 10/13/2019 at 7:12 PM, Carlisja said:

My son went down at 45 mph while wearing a Helite.  No injury.  Reached the canister, taped up the broken bike parts are rode on.   I will stick with Helite.

👍

[Rougarou]

So, I click the feed from motonews that links to visor down  and they're pimping the Duhan vest.  So I says to myself says I, I said, "hmmmm, I remember a discussion on Duhan". 

 

Since many folks have this weird way of thinking "you get what you pay for" mentality, IF Duhan had listed it's price at general level of a Helite or Hit-Air,......would you feel the same?

[Lowndes]

1 hour ago, Living the Dream said:

So, I click the feed from motonews that links to visor down  and they're pimping the Duhan vest.  So I says to myself says I, I said, "hmmmm, I remember a discussion on Duhan". 

 

Since many folks have this weird way of thinking "you get what you pay for" mentality, IF Duhan had listed it's price at general level of a Helite or Hit-Air,......would you feel the same?

 

 

Living the Dream,

 

Very interesting!!  I looked at the Douhan air bag vest in your Visor Down link and it looks identical to my "Ver 2" vest for $117 USD.  The Visor Down price shown is 269.28 GBP, which is currently $349.08 USD,  three times what I paid!!

 

I will guarantee you that there are some people who would rather pay the 3X price for the same item, and that's their right to do so.  There are also those who will buy just based on the name brand and that is their right as well.  Some people will stick with a product that they know works, and I have done that many times.

 

In most cases, I go by the "you get what you pay for" rule, too, unless I have a reason to believe otherwise.  After seeing these vests up close, inside and out, I think the vests I got are a  real bargain, all things considered.  Part of the price difference is the liability insurance a second party re-seller has and part is the mark-up including taxes, labor, interest, and profit that a re-seller adds to his cost on the item.  Buying from the Chinese directly eliminates these costs but eliminates any recourse (law suit) if something bad happens.

 

My extra CO2 cylinders arrived and I may do a simple inflation test like Moshe did to see if they work properly and don't explode.

 

 

 

 

[catskill]

I work for a company that mfg some goods in China. Not because we want to, but because we have to. All of our competitors are using China factories, so we also have to. A part that might cost us $0.25 USD to mfg, will cost $0.03 to mfg in China. And, our customers want to pay $0.10. It really sucks, and doing business in China sucks even more. Having said all this, let me chime in on the subject:

 

China does not honor International Patents, copyrights, or any Intellectual Property. If you have them mfg some product, they will sell it to other companies and individuals around the world. They see nothing wrong with violating your patents. Most small companies will have a single factory in China make their product and even brand it. When this happens, their products are widely distributed throughout the world by the China factory. China can be ruthless about selling other companies Intellectual Property. Smart companies will break up the mfg among several China factories, and assemble and brand it in their own factory.

 

China is incapable of designing and engineering products. Always been that way. In the future that will change. But, they can mfg anything as well as any other country. Quality Control doesn't exist in China. When you place an order, you have to expect to get rejects along with the good items. Sometimes, the item is mfg wrong, and you have NO recourse once you receive it. Right now I have 40,000 parts (gold plated with 24 ct) that were made wrong. We have to eat all those bad parts.

 

Some parts on your BMW motorcycle are mfg in China. BMW's sub-contractor will do QC, and BMW will also do QC to ensure that the product is good. But, you can take the risk and buy brake disc, and other products from China for your BMW. If the BMW part you ordered has BMW's logo stamped on it, expect CBP to seize it.

 

Alibaba is just a web site for China mfg and distributors to sell products from China to other countries. It is generally used for B2B. AliExpress is generally used for B2C. Anyone from any country can sell items on Alibaba. You just have to pay them the $4500 for the privilege.

 

I would be surprised if HeLite doesn't use factories in China. I would be surprised if HeLite, or another company or individual, doesn't have a patent on the air bags. There may also be some parts on the air bags that also have IP Royalties. Once China gets a hold of the product, it is hard for the company that owns the product, to stop them from selling it. But, in the United States, a company that owns the patent can contact CBP about the infringement, and CBP will seize all shipments that come into the USA from that factory. So...if you purchase the air bag from a China factory or individual, CBP can and will seize it if the patent holder files a complaint with CBP. You can get burned on the purchase. You just have to realize that you could lose the $125 and never see the product, if you decide to buy it.

 

I would imagine that HeLite does QC and testing. May even do some assemble. When you buy from HeLite, you are getting a product that is tested and backed by the company. Buying from China is like the Wild West. Most of the time it works out, but sometimes you get burned.

[Lowndes]

Catskill,

 

I too, sell products manufactured in China, for several different lines and  I totally agree on all your points; patents, labor costs, design and engineering, QC, etc. 

 

I'm not familiar with the CPB problems, never have to deal with that on our end.  We sell lifting devices with parts manufactured (we are told) in the same plant that makes parts for European automobile automatic transmissions.  We have not had any issues and know of no issues with these units, other than job site abuse which is easy to determine.  Other items are very simple hand tools with no known issues there either.  In both cases there are onsite "European inspectors" in the plant and approving all shipments BEFORE they leave the plant.

 

I have purchased multiple dash cams and other small elec gadgets with NO problems other than excessively long delivery times.  Alibaba does a lot of assuring and guaranteeing customers of "fiducial responsibility" when dealing with vendors there.  I'd hate to have to try out any "guarantee" there.

 

When you can buy very similar inflatable PFD (life jackets) for boating for less than $75, an airbag vest for $650 seems a little high.  The main differences are the triggering device, a moisture sensor vs a simple lanyard and slightly larger internal volume for the airbag.  

 

I am just laying out what my experiences have been in purchasing three of these airbag vests for SUBSTANTIALLY less than other "European sources", possibly making these more available to riders here.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

moving

[Carlisja]

I have both a HitAir and a Helite vest.  I have also purchased the boating personal flotation devices.  The PADs are very different from the airbags in that they don't have to withstand so much abrasion and, there is almost no consideration required for deployment shape or speed.  I agree that the Chinese are the bane of most US companies existence.  Elite is an EU company with an international staff of 18 people.  Zack McCune,  the the U.S. face of Helite has a day job too.  No one is getting rich off of motorcycle airbags.  This is true even when they are I evolved in equestrian airbags.  The Chinese are getting wealthy off the work of others.

 

As a US Military Officer, working in Africa with the Chinese Army I can confirm that their entire Government is focused on stealing the work product of anyone they can.  They are blatant about it.

 

Don't buy o. Alibaba unless you have no other choice.

 

James

[realshelby]

Too often we assume that since the Chinese copy is a small percentage of the genuine article, that someone must be getting rich off the higher priced article. 

 

Most here have NO idea what it costs to develop a product. What it costs to bring it past prototype to market. What it costs in overhead to maintain everything involved with the article. 

 

Chinese products often sidestep these costs. We are conditioned as consumers to expect prices so cheap we.....just have to buy them. TV's are a good example. 

 

Which makes it unprofitable for many entrepreneurs to research and develop new  and unique products in the US and other countries. 

[Rougarou]

53 minutes ago, realshelby said:

Too often we assume that since the Chinese copy is a small percentage of the genuine article, that someone must be getting rich off the higher priced article. 

 

Most here have NO idea what it costs to develop a product. What it costs to bring it past prototype to market. What it costs in overhead to maintain everything involved with the article. 

 

Chinese products often sidestep these costs. We are conditioned as consumers to expect prices so cheap we.....just have to buy them. TV's are a good example. 

 

Which makes it unprofitable for many entrepreneurs to research and develop new  and unique products in the US and other countries. 

 

 

Hmmmm,...did you say "sidestep", as it's bigger than motorcycle airbags.

 

Chinese Z-10

 

U. S. Apache

 

 

Sorta match huh????  Wonder how the Chinese did that?

 

Chengdu J-20 and U.S. F22 Raptor.

 

 

 

This is definitely rolling in an off-topic sorta way.

 

 

[Lowndes]

Well, since this has turned, inevitably I guess, into a socioeconomic-geoplitical-legalistic issue, let's cut to the chase.  I agree with 99% of everything said above.  I've been to China, seen them close up and there is NO DOUBT they are out to dominate the world, pure and simple.  They do have enormous potential, population, and problems.  But, they are unified, think long term, are focused, and resolute.  Their general population is very used to hardship and hard work whereas ours no so much.  They have totally infiltrated our society, stolen everything they wanted and that we didn't give outright, and are monitoring every aspect of out communication systems.  WE have only enabled them.  Until now.

 

Our Orange Man is THE FIRST and ONLY president to call them out on these issues AND stand up to them, and in a HUGE way.  He pretty much has them by the short hairs right now and is playing this very well.

 

A rhetorical question: who will you vote for in 2020??

[Slumgullion]

I'm just getting to read this very helpful conversation, and I want ya'll to know I ride with Lowndes!! Because I do I AM SOMEBODY! Lowndes you are awesome! See you at START! 

[eddd]

This thread seems to have run its course and then some.  Since the posts have moved from air vests to politics it is locked.  Feel free to start a new thread on air vests if new relevant information is available.

 

Full Throttle is the proper section for political posts.

 

Ed

Staff