LED lights Installation.

[JMitchell]

Hello Fourm,

 

Just recently replaced my turn signal bulbs (1157) with LED’s.  My question is can I replace the current relay in order to not get the flash fast syndrome or do I need to install resistors on each light.  If so do they install in line with the positive or negative lead.

 

It would be nice just to replace the relay if possible.

 

Thank you,

John

[dirtrider]

4 hours ago, JMitchell said:

Hello Fourm,

 

Just recently replaced my turn signal bulbs (1157) with LED’s.  My question is can I replace the current relay in order to not get the flash fast syndrome or do I need to install resistors on each light.  If so do they install in line with the positive or negative lead.

 

It would be nice just to replace the relay if possible.

 

Thank you,

John

 

Morning John

 

To give you a specific answer we need to know what year & model BMW that you are working on?

 

You say old bulbs were 1157, the 1157 bulb is not typically used in a BMW motorcycle plus the 1157 is a twin filament, as rule BMW turn signal bulbs are single filament.

 

If a BMW 1100 or 1150 then the turn signals don't use a conventional flasher unit or relay so you can't just stick a new non-load dependent flasher unit in.

 

As far as adding resistors, yes you can do that but they DON'T install in series with either the positive or negative light wire (installing in series would make your problem even worse). The resistors install (in parallel) across the positive &  negative wires  at each light (the resistor adds additional  load to each light circuit).

 

You also need to be somewhat  careful on where/how you mount  the resistors as they can get fairly hot in operation.

[JMitchell]

Good morning Dirtrider,

 

Always appreciater you advise.  The 1100 RT is a 1996.  Both the front and rear amber lights are running and flasher lights so they do have two filaments.  The installation of the resistors now makes more sense to me.   Will look for a new relay first.

 

-John

 

[dirtrider]

14 minutes ago, JMitchell said:

Good morning Dirtrider,

 

Always appreciater you advise.  The 1100 RT is a 1996.  Both the front and rear amber lights are running and flasher lights so they do have two filaments.  The installation of the resistors now makes more sense to me.   Will look for a new relay first.

 

-John

 

 

Afternoon John

 

Those added running lights are not BMW production so someone has added them at one time.

 

I doubt that you will find a suitable flasher relay to flash those LED's  as the one that BMW uses is a very odd electronic duck.

 

[JMitchell]

Interesting to learn the runnng lights are not stock.  So normally the front and rear amber lens are dark except when the blinkers are flashing?

JM

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, JMitchell said:

Interesting to learn the runnng lights are not stock.  So normally the front and rear amber lens are dark except when the blinkers are flashing?

JM

 

Evening John

 

Yes, turn signals only. In fact it is not legal  to have orange rear running lights in most states (but usually not enforced).

 

OEM bulbs were 21 watt single filament.

[spacewrench]

The flasher unit DR posted above can be replaced by a Kisan Signal Minder, which converts the OEM single-filament turn signals into running lights plus turn (plus brake flashers, if you turn that function on).

 

If you have 1157s with two filaments, I'd guess a previous owner wired in an always-on-running light -- I did that myself on a Suzuki Burgman.  The bulb sockets are the same size, so you can swap the metal receptacle from some other bike, run an extra wire and Bob's your uncle.  But the Kisan approach is cleaner and easier, and you get extra functionality out of it.  Plus the "running light" turns off when the turn signal is going.

 

I have "single filament" LED bulbs on my R1100S with a Kisan, and it operates as running/brake-flasher/turn-signal with autocancel.  I sold my old BMW relay on fleaBay for $10 or something, but they normally go for $1xx -- about the same as a Kisan replacement.  (Not surprising!)

[JMitchell]

Thank you Spacewrench for the name of the relay.   Does it have the correct resistance to operate the LED bulbs at a normal flash rate and not the hyper speed I am getting now.

 

JM

[Miguel!]

The signal minder works as as described above with LED or incandescent bulb’s. You do not need the load resistors with the LED and it flashes at the normal rate.   Further. It’s plug and play. It uses the existing turn signal controls to configure the various functions and modes   Quite clever actually.  I’ve been using one for the better part of a year. One feature I like is the ability to cancel the turn signal if you forget after a programmable number of seconds. 
 

Miguel

[dirtrider]

Morning John

 

The one limiting factor to the  Kisan Signal Minder is if you don't ride the bike much & don't keep it on a battery charger between rides the Kisan Signal Minder has (had anyhow) a fairly high internal parasitic  drain  that can run the battery down (even with key turned off).

 

I hear rumors of the newer Kisan Signal Minder's not having the patristic drain problem but haven't ever actually measured a new one myself to confirm this.

 

Worth checking into if your bike sits unattended for  longer periods. (call Kisan & ask if the battery  drain problem has been improved & if so how to tell the improved models from the older high draw Signal Minders )

 

If your bike already has the converted 2 filament sockets/bulbs (running/turn signal)  then adding load resistors would be a lot cheaper than adding a Kisan Signal Minder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spacewrench]

Miguel! is right: the Kisan is a clever gadget that plugs right into the BMW relay-module socket. You have to add an extra sensor wire if you want the brake-flash function to work; that's a slight source of mess (but nowhere near as messy as load resistors and the like).  Unfortunately, it's just a bit bigger than the original unit, so you may have to move other stuff around in the plastic boxes that hold all the wiring.  I had to trim out a partition on my R1100S, and the box lid doesn't fit exactly right.

I haven't measured the electrical draw with the bike off.  Maybe next time I have the tank off to do something.

[JMitchell]

Will call on Monday and inquire about the parasitic draw.

JM

[JMitchell]

I spoke with Kisan Electronics and asked about the Parasitic drain on the battery with the key off.  They are no longer designed this way.  Before it was a design that apparently BMW used in order to keep the emergency flashers on and still have the ability to remove the key.  Anyway they no longer have this function and they do not drain the battery while sitting for a long period of time.

 

i realize this is a much more expensive option then just installing the resistors but I decided to purchase the relay just to advoid the additional wiring spaghetti and the concern of heat in a small space.  There might some value in them turning off the blinker automatically.  I have on occasion forgot to cancel the turn signal and have been thankful no one has pulled in front of me.

 

-John

[JMitchell]

Hello Miguel,

 

I purchased the SM-5 signal minder you mentioned.  As you said it is a clever devise.  Did you hook up the brake flash feature?

the wire color mentioned in their manual is incorrect.  Do you remember which color wire you connected to?

 

Thank you,

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, JMitchell said:

 

the wire color mentioned in their manual is incorrect.  Do you remember which color wire you connected to?

 

 

Afternoon  JMitchell

 

The brake light wire color on your 1100RT should be Gray/Yellow, you might have to go back by the taillight assembly to find it  unwrapped & in the open.

[Miguel!]

5 hours ago, JMitchell said:

Hello Miguel,

 

I purchased the SM-5 signal minder you mentioned.  As you said it is a clever devise.  Did you hook up the brake flash feature?

the wire color mentioned in their manual is incorrect.  Do you remember which color wire you connected to?

 

Thank you,

John, I don't recall but I tied into the brake light circuit by running a wire to the brake light itself rather than figuring out which wire it was at the fuse box. The previous owner retrofitted an aftermarket LED brake light/turn signal assembly. He'd already cut into the wires so I just tapped into those. He used load resistor to fool the original BMW flasher relay. I removed the resistors because they are not needed with the Signal Minder. I'll take pictures tmw for you. Feel free to give me a call if you have any questions. I'm  pretty familiar with 12V electricity. 

 

Miguel

408-757-7173, along the central California coast 

[JMitchell]

23 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon  JMitchell

 

The brake light wire color on your 1100RT should be Gray/Yellow, you might have to go back by the taillight assembly to find it  unwrapped & in the open.

Good call Dirtrider.  I will tie into the brake wire like Miguel mentioned back at the light itself.  Unless it is straightforward to trace it back to the relay.

Thank you,

John

[dirtrider]

12 minutes ago, JMitchell said:

Good call Dirtrider.  I will tie into the brake wire like Miguel mentioned back at the light itself.  Unless it is straightforward to trace it back to the relay.

Thank you,

John

 

Afternoon John

 

It will be very difficult to trace that brake light wire back to the relay as the BMW 1100RT doesn't have a relay in the brake light circuit.

It pretty well only pokes it nose out at the brake light switches & at the rear tail/brake light area. 

[Miguel!]

Hey John, Here's a few pics I took today for you. Its the white wire going towards the back of the bike. I zip tied it to some cables going that direction so it snag on anything. I snaked it through a hole in the back of the bike into the cavity behind the taillight assembly. The previous owner had exposed the wires when he installed the Horner (sp?) aftermarket LED brake/tail light.

 

 I used a razor blade to cut a small notch in the side of the fuse box so the top fit on tight without crushing the wire. 

 

The connector I'm holding powers the seat heater. You can see I notched the fuse box for that as well. BTW, the seat heater wire is connected to another clever device I discovered this year called an add-a-tap. Available on Amazon and other places. It allowed me to separately fuse the seat heater without having to dig into the BMW cables. Works great. 

 

Hope that helps! Miguel

 

 

[JMitchell]

Thank you for the pictures.  I located the brake wire as Dirtrider mentioned.  I was able to trace it back to the relay box so I was able to use the supplied scotchlok.  Works great.

-John

[JMitchell]

Thank you for the pictures.  I located the brake wire as Dirtrider mentioned.  I was able to trace it back to the relay box so I was able to use the supplied scotchlok.  Works great.

The RT has been a great project.

-John