Massive oil leak at rear hub

[joeb]

Hi all. Haven't  been riding as much due to non bike related injuries. I did get out the other day and when I stopped my 03 1150rt with 107 ,000 miles on it I noticed that hyoid gear oil was pouring out of the rear wheel hub area by the rotor.. I think it must have just happened as I heard no horrible noise or grinding. Bike ran smoothly.  Haven't yet tore into it but assuming a rear bearing seal ?? I also noticed in another post someone had a similar problem but with some obvious gear issues.  

  Does  anyone know if replacing the seal is a major headache , and does it require the gear to be preloaded  ?

  Am I being delusional in thinking that it may be an easy fix ?? 

As always thanks in advance for all of your knowledgable responses. JB

 

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, joeb said:

Hi all. Haven't  been riding as much due to non bike related injuries. I did get out the other day and when I stopped my 03 1150rt with 107 ,000 miles on it I noticed that hyoid gear oil was pouring out of the rear wheel hub area by the rotor.. I think it must have just happened as I heard no horrible noise or grinding. Bike ran smoothly.  Haven't yet tore into it but assuming a rear bearing seal ?? I also noticed in another post someone had a similar problem but with some obvious gear issues.  

  Does  anyone know if replacing the seal is a major headache , and does it require the gear to be preloaded  ?

  Am I being delusional in thinking that it may be an easy fix ?? 

As always thanks in advance for all of your knowledgable responses. JB

 

 

Evening Joeb

 

JUST, replacing the seal itself is no big deal & fairly easy. Just drill the seal outer ring in a couple of places (caution: don't drill very deep) then screw in a Sheetmetal screw, then use side-cutters & a fulcrum to pry the seal out. Then flip the removed seal over & use that to drive in the new seal.

 

BUT!, in most cases that seal is leaking because the crown bearing just under seal is going bad & allowing the spool to wobble around.

 

Replacing the crown bearing  is a  lot more complicated as the bearing preload needs to be precision measured & set properly.   Doable at home but not straight forward & takes some thought as well fully understanding the procedure.

[joeb]

Thanks so much, hope that is all I need to do !

 

[Jim Moore]

Doing the seal is simple. The big question will be the condition of the bearing behind the seal. Frequently the seal starts to leak because the bearing comes apart and tears up the seal. Occasionally the seal simply starts leaking. Good luck.

[Lowndes]

Joeb,

 

Unless you would rather be wrenching than riding, you could pick up a used Final Drive somewhere, install it, and ride while your FD is being rebuilt by someone with the tools, skills, and experience to get it right. Ride while you still can.   Or work on it yourself later - cold weather will be here soon in most places.

 

A quick google search shows a bunch of FD's for sale from ~ $150 up on fleabay.  Beemer Boneyard shows a bunch of SOLD units (as they always do) so you might give Michael a call there.

 

There are several shops that have a very good reputation for FD rebuilds.  Anton at http://vamotorrad.com/  in VA is one.

 

If you are doing any overnight or longer rides you might consider the costs and lost time of a FD fail away from home.  It's not a roadside fix and not many shops can do it, so there's usually a motel stay and some transportation costs before you even get to the repair itself.  In otherwords, the FD is kinda critical.  If you only ride locally you're missing a lot of fun!!

 

DirtRider described the bearing failure issue in another thread here recently and it might apply to your FD.  (https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/93588-final-drive-bearing/ post #5). He said it was actually a basket (or ball separator) failure that allows the balls to bunch-up.    THAT would dump all 8 oz of oil very quickly.

 

Keep us posted and show us some pics if you dig into it (WPIDH)!!

 

 

 

 

 

[AndyS]

It sounds like that crown bearing has gone west. 

[joeb]

Hmmmm. Thought it might have been a little to good to be true. I haven't tore into it yet. If I take of the rear wheel and inspect, is it obvious to see if the bearing is bad ??

[dirtrider]

31 minutes ago, joeb said:

Hmmmm. Thought it might have been a little to good to be true. I haven't tore into it yet. If I take of the rear wheel and inspect, is it obvious to see if the bearing is bad ??

 

Afternoon Joeb

 

Start by grabbing the rear wheel top & bottom then front & rear. Then try to move/wobble the wheel. If you get more than just a slight wheel movement or wiggle then suspect the bearing. 

 

You can also remove the seal then using a strong light see the bearing balls & inner ball separator (at least see some of it).

 

You might also drain the gear oil into a CLEAN pan, then strain the removed gear oil through a paper towel (or coffee filter) then see what gets caught.  

 

If you catch some grit & junk then try running it between your thumb & index finger to see if it feels sharp (if it feels sharp then suspect a bearing failing)

[joeb]

Will check for wheel wobble and metal shavings. 

Is the metal in the bearing magnetic ?

Watched a good Chris Harris video on      removal / install  final drive. He mentioned phasing but didnt elaborate other than saying some models have a larger spline on the shaft and cant be installed improperly. Does the 03rt shaft need to be phased or does it have the larger spline/keyway on it ? Also sent an email to the rebuild shop in Va. and I'm waiting to see what they say about price, turn around time etc. 

Thanks for all the good info, will keep posted on progress or lack thereof. 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, joeb said:

Will check for wheel wobble and metal shavings. 

Is the metal in the bearing magnetic ?

Watched a good Chris Harris video on      removal / install  final drive. He mentioned phasing but didnt elaborate other than saying some models have a larger spline on the shaft and cant be installed improperly. Does the 03rt shaft need to be phased or does it have the larger spline/keyway on it ? Also sent an email to the rebuild shop in Va. and I'm waiting to see what they say about price, turn around time etc. 

Thanks for all the good info, will keep posted on progress or lack thereof. 

 

Afternoon Joeb

 

There is no shaft phasing of the shaft to the final drive (shaft doesn't care what spline position it slides on).

 

The only time that you need to worry about shaft phasing is IF you pull the shaft apart (rear section off of front shaft section).

 

You don't typically need to do this in JUST removing the final drive from the motorcycle.  

 

If you send the final drive out for rebuild  then it has to be removed from the bike, if you install the seal or bearing yourself then that can be done with the drive still attached to the motorcycle (but, that can depend on what bearing preload setup procedure you chooses to use)    

 

Some of the bearing material is magnetic & some isn't (you can't depend on catching it with a magnet).

[joeb]

Well......after checking oil for .metal chips (there were ) and wheel for wobble ( there was) I called up my local Barrington Illinois  BMW dealer. .they said that for the seal and bearing they would charge about 3.5 hrs labor. After figuring it would take me about a week in labor and I'd probably screw it up, get a stroke, heart attack,  and skinned knuckles , I figured that was a good deal. Fast service and pick up my bike tomorrow in plenty of time for a Smoky Mountain ride in Oct. Thanks for all your input.

[Jerry Duke]

Unless you have 100% trust in the mechanic that will be working on the bike send the FD to Anton. It will be done right.

[Lowndes]

Joeb,

 

I'd say you made the right choice here with a shop, considering the time constraint.  It seems to me there are some special tools that are maybe not absolutely required but very helpful in working on the FD (one could improvise or fab your own tool).  Then, they have the knowledge and experience to get it shimmed and pre-loaded properly, and they have the parts readily available.

 

I agree with Jerry, above, on Anton, if time permits.  He does a lot of this type work and has a very good reputation with it. You might have to remove and ship your FD to him, then reinstall it. He is in Charlottesville, VA.  http://vamotorrad.com/

 

You might ask the shop to save the failed parts for you to look at and see if it was the cage that failed, just for curiosity.

 

You will enjoy the Blue Ridge.  It is best on weekdays because the weekend traffic (Fri, Sat, Sun morning), especially in the fall, can (WILL) be awful, long jams and crazy drivers.  On weekdays it is great!!  NO GAS on the parkway anymore.  You will need to plan the gas stops.

 

Here is the NPS map with closures and advisories:  https://www.nps.gov/maps/full.html?mapId=e212fcb5-4ff9-4787-bbe4-3d40cc0d0daa#8/36.836/-79.969

 

Don't worry about closures as the detours can be a lot of fun, too!!

 

 

[joeb]

I did go to vamotorad web site. I wrote to them in the contact box about my situation. They never got back to me.

[joeb]

I did go to vamotorad web site. I wrote to them in the contact box about my situation. They never got back to me.

Sorry about double entry. I dont know how to delete it

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, joeb said:

Well......after checking oil for .metal chips (there were ) and wheel for wobble ( there was) I called up my local Barrington Illinois  BMW dealer. .they said that for the seal and bearing they would charge about 3.5 hrs labor. After figuring it would take me about a week in labor and I'd probably screw it up, get a stroke, heart attack,  and skinned knuckles , I figured that was a good deal. Fast service and pick up my bike tomorrow in plenty of time for a Smoky Mountain ride in Oct. Thanks for all your input.

 

 

Morning Joeb

 

If having a BMW dealer do the work then you should get some assurances up front. As a rule most BMW dealers do it correctly but some have been known to cheat & JUST toss in a new bearing & install a new seal without taking the time to re-shim correctly, then send it out the door (big money profit this way & even if not shimmed correctly most tec's know that the drive  won't re-fail until later in the future  (or far from home) so with that time frame & mileage frame after the repair it is easy to blame some other part for a future failure.

 

I also cautiously question this statement--  they said that for the seal and bearing they would charge about 3.5 hrs labor -- what happens if they call you up & tell you that they found more problems & it will be an additional 3 hours labor & another $300 in parts?  OR, it will now be additional to clean the inside of the drive & other bearings as they found metallic debris inside.  (just something to address up front so no Bring-More-Money  surprises)

 

They will more than likely find a slight pinion seal seep so possibly you will get a call asking for additional to repair that.

 

I'm not saying the dealer is out to screw you but try to get some more assurances up front before committing to the job.

 

Maybe get them to give you an idea on what will happen if they find more wrong ( or if they  try to scare you by reporting more iffy internal parts).

 

When you go to pick the bike up  after the repair look at the repair order to see if they charged you for a new bearing shim.  If they didn't then ask why. Sometimes the old shim is correct with a new bearing but a lot of times it isn't  (ask what they set the bearing preload to), if they him & haw or have to check then suspect.

 

Look at the bike to see if the final drive was actually removed from the motorcycle, if it wasn't actually removed then that puts up  a big red flag that is was not shimmed  using the correct BMW tools & gauges. 

 

 

 

 

[joeb]

Picked up my bike today. They checked the other bearing for .metal chip contamination,  said it was ok. They replaced the pinion seal, and my rear brake pads as they were soaked in oil. They were within $50  of their estimate. If the work was done competently  I have no complaints. I guess I'll find out down the road